Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Gigantor on June 07, 2015, 06:55:24 pm

Title: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: Gigantor on June 07, 2015, 06:55:24 pm
I finally replace my turn signal bulbs. I am happy with the results

Purchase 2 pairs of LED amber bulbs from VLED
AMBER 7507 21 LED BLINKER TURN SIGNAL BULBS BAU15s | ($50/pr )1 PAIR

Part #: 7507_21_A


(http://www.vleds.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/410x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/1/1157_r_1.jpg)


LED Flasher Relay from Motorcycle Store $12.95

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/67453/i/dmp-led-flasher-relay?WT.ac=RichAutoComplete (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/67453/i/dmp-led-flasher-relay?WT.ac=RichAutoComplete)


Or LED Flasher relay from J&P cycles for $24.95 fits nicer in the rubber mount
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 07, 2015, 08:57:22 pm
Color me jaded....  I have been burned by LED bulb sellers claiming to have something as good or better.  Then they turn out to be dimmer and/or don't throw out light as well in all required directions, especially with amber/yellow bulbs.   Please, please tell us these are better than previous models!!  I do so want to replace my running/turn lights with LED versions to get rid of the heat & power drain.  Half of that bulb has no lights on it at all, so I would think the light dispersion would be rather poor, no?  I would love a photo comparison, but if you haven't converted to running lights, trying to get a photo of one incandescent and one LED, both enclosed and on at the same time would be quite difficult.

Vleds site is better than most, but here is an example of typical spec inconsistencies that even they have- if their bulb has 21 x 0.5watt LEDs (which is 10.5 watts), then how can the spec of the bulb be 14.5V x 340mA, which is only 4.93watts?

http://www.vleds.com/amber-7507-21-led-blinker-turn-signal-bulbs-bau15s-1-pair.html (http://www.vleds.com/amber-7507-21-led-blinker-turn-signal-bulbs-bau15s-1-pair.html)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: Gigantor on June 07, 2015, 11:42:17 pm
I understand your concerns, but I only buy LED from reputable vendors.

If you notice, the LED's or on the top and the side where they need to be. I feel safer, since the stocks look dim compared to the Led

One good thing about buying from reputable vendors, you can  return them. All my vehicles have LED.

I purchased my HID headlamp and led running lights (located under the headlight) from SOCALMOTO.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: Gigantor on June 07, 2015, 11:46:38 pm
Additionally,  though my 2014 spec calls out 1157 in front and 1156 in rear, my bike has 1156 front and rear. . .go figure
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 08, 2015, 05:33:51 am
I understand your concerns, but I only buy LED from reputable vendors.

Oh, I have purchased from VLEDS before...

Quote
If you notice, the LED's or on the top and the side where they need to be. I feel safer, since the stocks look dim compared to the Led

One good thing about buying from reputable vendors, you can  return them. All my vehicles have LED.

The main issue with VLEDS is they have a restocking charge.  But I might end up trying again
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: Gigantor on June 08, 2015, 06:34:22 am
maxtog,

Superbright LEDs is also reputable
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: elp_jc on June 08, 2015, 11:33:40 am
I've been disappointed with V-LEDs lately, so I don't buy from them anymore. Bought their supposedly super bright amber bulbs for the 'city lights' on our bike, and were absolute crap. An ugly washed out color that looks nothing like amber. And as Maxtog commented, they wanted me to pay both shippings plus a hefty restocking fee, so just threw them away. I also tried very similar LED bulbs but from superbrightLEDs before, and although they were supposed to be brighter than stock, the main problem is their LENGTH. The reflector is designed for the length of a regular bulb, not half longer. And that's where I think the problem lies. Mine were hyperflashing when I tried them, so couldn't quite compare them with stock bulbs (one on each side) because the incandescent couldn't acheve full brightness with the very quick blinking rate. But even then, it was pretty obvious the SIDE illumination was compromised IMO. So as much as I want LEDs on the turn-signals too, I'm going to wait for a Maxtog testimonial before doing anything, since he wants exactly the same results as I do ;D.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: jirod on June 09, 2015, 07:44:20 am
[...snip]
Vleds site is better than most, but here is an example of typical spec inconsistencies that even they have- if their bulb has 21 x 0.5watt LEDs (which is 10.5 watts), then how can the spec of the bulb be 14.5V x 340mA, which is only 4.93watts?

Could be an inconsistency, or they may be under driving them in that particular bulb because they can't keep the diodes cool. If the junction temperature goes way up at full rated current some LEDs produce less light, not more. Shorter life, too.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 09, 2015, 05:19:01 pm
Could be an inconsistency, or they may be under driving them in that particular bulb because they can't keep the diodes cool. If the junction temperature goes way up at full rated current some LEDs produce less light, not more. Shorter life, too.

Agreed- I thought about that, but also look at the lumens claim and things still don't quite add up.  Plus it would be misleading to say they are 0.5W LED's if they are way underdriven... it would be like selling a 100 watt lightbulb that really only pulls 50W and puts out half the light.  Or advertising tha a computer has a 3Ghz processor, but it can only really run at an underclocked 2Ghz max.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: jonathan on April 03, 2016, 03:17:03 pm
I am replacing the turn signals with LEDs and ordered the LED compatible flasher recommended in the first post. It has a 2-wire pigtail coming from it, but when I look at what I think is the flasher on the bike, behind the right rear panel near the rear brake reservoir, it has 3 pins on it.

These are not the same. Do I have the wrong replacement or am I looking in the wrong place for the flasher?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on April 03, 2016, 04:17:54 pm
I am replacing the turn signals with LEDs and ordered the LED compatible flasher recommended in the first post. It has a 2-wire pigtail coming from it, but when I look at what I think is the flasher on the bike, behind the right rear panel near the rear brake reservoir, it has 3 pins on it.

These are not the same. Do I have the wrong replacement or am I looking in the wrong place for the flasher?


http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg242704#msg242704 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg242704#msg242704)  (2 pin is correct)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: jonathan on April 04, 2016, 08:33:47 am
Thanks. I did find that after posting this so I panicked prematurely.

Now with the electronic flasher if I turn the bike off while the flashers are on then the fuel pump and instruments pulse in time with the flashers until I turn the flashers off. There must be some backfeed somewhere, so I just have to remember to turn the flashers off first.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on April 04, 2016, 04:07:26 pm
Thanks. I did find that after posting this so I panicked prematurely.

Now with the electronic flasher if I turn the bike off while the flashers are on then the fuel pump and instruments pulse in time with the flashers until I turn the flashers off. There must be some backfeed somewhere, so I just have to remember to turn the flashers off first.

Hmm, I haven't tried THAT before.  If I can remember, I will try it out.... but remembering is the hard part.  Sounds strange.

I can say I have been using my model flasher for almost a year now and it has been working very well.  Someday, if some company EVER comes out with LED bulbs that work/fit, are at least as bright as incandescent, and have a proper dispersion pattern, I will switch to them.  Been waiting 5 years....
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on April 11, 2016, 07:34:45 pm
Hmm, I haven't tried THAT before.  If I can remember, I will try it out.... but remembering is the hard part.  Sounds strange.

I can say I have been using my model flasher for almost a year now and it has been working very well.  Someday, if some company EVER comes out with LED bulbs that work/fit, are at least as bright as incandescent, and have a proper dispersion pattern, I will switch to them.  Been waiting 5 years....

I bought a couple of the sockets below from Amazon. About 2 minutes with a dremel tool and they installed right in and replaced the weird BAU15s sockets. Now I can use common 1157 bulbs that have a lot more availability. I just wired the running light lead to accessory power. There's a lot more 1157 bulbs available then the weird off-set sockets Kawasaki uses.

uxcell® Auto Car Plastic Water Resist 1157 Rear Brake Light Socket

Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on June 04, 2016, 07:43:36 am
Found these on Amazon that may hold some promise for brighter turn signal LED's. May try these on the rear.



JDM ASTAR Super Bright 5730 Chipsets 7507 1156PY BAU15S LED Bulbs with Projector, Amber Yellow
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: Arata on June 04, 2016, 08:47:39 am
50.00 a pair??

Did I read that correctly?

Holy Crap!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on June 04, 2016, 01:52:27 pm
They're  $18. The web address is below. You must have found something else for $50.


http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00XV4W686?ie=UTF8&colid=3K2KTB7HRHX2A&coliid=ICZZ6Q8MHZ4XX&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl/ (http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00XV4W686?ie=UTF8&colid=3K2KTB7HRHX2A&coliid=ICZZ6Q8MHZ4XX&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl/)


Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 04, 2016, 09:16:46 pm
They're  $18. The web address is below.

[url]http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00XV4W686?ie=UTF8&colid=3K2KTB7HRHX2A&coliid=ICZZ6Q8MHZ4XX&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl/[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00XV4W686?ie=UTF8&colid=3K2KTB7HRHX2A&coliid=ICZZ6Q8MHZ4XX&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl/[/url])


This is extremely interesting.   So much so that I just put two pair in my cart...
Note the correct URL that is NOT from your gift list is:  http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00XV4W686 (http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00XV4W686)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on June 05, 2016, 12:38:31 pm
Thanks Max, didn't know Amazon did that.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 05, 2016, 01:22:45 pm
This is extremely interesting.   So much so that I just put two pair in my cart...

 :popcorn:  I'll be keeping an eye out for your report on these max', as you and I are pretty much in agreement that, so far, LEDs just don't fill the reflector (focal problems) with enough light to equal a filament bulb. However if they can tackle it another way, it appears they have 6 chips behind the projector lens instead of the usual 1, then that will work for me. I've gone over to the "light side" on LED headlights (they're not perfect yet for our reflectors, but good enough now IMO) but, like you, I've seen nothing close in the turn signals. I hope this one is it.

They're  $18. The web address is below. You must have found something else for $50.

Pete, I think he was referring to the Original Post at the top of the thread.
Regardless, thanks for the link!  :finger_fing11:
With any luck (for us) you'll have to switch your front sockets back to the originals to use these...oh wait you used a Dremel...oh oh...OK, no luck for you.  ;)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 05, 2016, 03:53:26 pm
Thanks Max, didn't know Amazon did that.

I didn't either.  Amazon kept throwing this strange warning about a duplicate "gift" in my cart over and over again.  I finally gave up and removed it from the cart and did a manual search.  That is when I realized your URL was from something other than just a plain search.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 05, 2016, 03:58:18 pm
:popcorn:  I'll be keeping an eye out for your report on these max', as you and I are pretty much in agreement that, so far, LEDs just don't fill the reflector (focal problems) with enough light to equal a filament bulb. However if they can tackle it another way, it appears they have 6 chips behind the projector lens instead of the usual 1, then that will work for me. I've gone over to the "light side" on LED headlights (they're not perfect yet for our reflectors, but good enough now IMO) but, like you, I've seen nothing close in the turn signals. I hope this one is it.


Yep, I studied them carefully.  The 6 LEDs on top and the reviews make it look too good.  Then the really low price made me jump.  Crossing my fingers.  And since I am in the mood for risk, I found these by the same vendor:  http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Extremely-Bright-Chipsets/dp/B018GYMOZ0 (http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Extremely-Bright-Chipsets/dp/B018GYMOZ0)  and they look like they will blow away the mediocre LED's I currently have for the city lights.... so those are in my cart too.

Quote
With any luck (for us) you'll have to switch your front sockets back to the originals to use these...oh wait you used a Dremel...oh oh...OK, no luck for you.  ;)


This same JDM ASTAR vendor has the identical bulbs but for standard 1156 sockets too...  http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00WVLNJ54 (http://www.amazon.com/JDM-ASTAR-Bright-Chipsets-Projector/dp/B00WVLNJ54)  (BE CAREFUL PEOPLE, THAT LAST URL IS NOT FOR THE STOCK KAWASAKI SOCKETS!!)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on June 06, 2016, 08:53:26 pm
Actually I dremeled the new GM 1157 sockets so they would fit where the OEM sockets were.  All my original parts are untouched. But as Max said, there's plenty of variety for the more common 1156 and 1157 sockets. I think I even came across an 1157 that is white in the running mode and flashes yellow in the turn signal mode. Right now I have incandescent 1157s in the front because I was ready to put it together when the weather started warming up instead of shopping for bulbs. I was thinking of trying these new 1156PY's in the back turn signals.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 06, 2016, 10:35:36 pm
I guess I will be everyone's guinea pig, then, since mine are on order now (front and rear) and should be here within the next week or so.  Can't promise when I will have the energy to tear apart the sides to install the fronts, but I will certainly compare the rears immediately.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 07, 2016, 08:03:11 am
...oh wait you used a Dremel...oh oh...OK, no luck for you.  ;)

Actually I dremeled the new GM 1157 sockets so they would fit where the OEM sockets were.  All my original parts are untouched.

Don't need luck if you start off smart. Well done.  :finger_fing11:
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 08, 2016, 05:50:12 pm
OK- WOW.  The JDM Astar bulbs arrived today and are exactly what I have been waiting for all these years.  I have lots of analysis and photos to come.  Haven't done front yet, just rear.  Light distribution is awesome, illumination is considerably brighter than stock incandescent.   City lights are even more awesome, perhaps DOUBLE the brightness of incandescent.... will update that separate thread later too.  Color me happy so far...
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 08, 2016, 08:36:22 pm
  I have lots of analysis and photos to come.  Haven't done front yet, just rear.  Light distribution is awesome, illumination is considerably brighter than stock incandescent.   City lights are even more awesome, perhaps DOUBLE the brightness of incandescent.... will update that separate thread later too.  Color me happy so far...


https://youtu.be/arZdeg_fL-I (https://youtu.be/arZdeg_fL-I)

(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/nbdeadgirl/GLEE/Kurt/Kurt38.gif)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: kwakrider on June 09, 2016, 02:52:05 am
OK- WOW.  The JDM Astar bulbs arrived today and are exactly what I have been waiting for all these years.  I have lots of analysis and photos to come.  Haven't done front yet, just rear.  Light distribution is awesome, illumination is considerably brighter than stock incandescent.   City lights are even more awesome, perhaps DOUBLE the brightness of incandescent.... will update that separate thread later too.  Color me happy so far...

This is good news indeed maxtog...we share the same views when it comes to the bullshit claims of most suppliers with regards to light distribution, illumination etc. I look forward to your review!!  :thumbs: :thumbs:
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 12, 2016, 03:34:30 pm
Why LED?  They use much less power, produce much less heat, have the potential to be much brighter, and they turn on and off instantly.   But there have been numerous problems with LED 1156Y bulbs- they have not been bright enough, the light pattern (light distribution) has been unacceptable, the bulb physically won't fit (too large), and/or the price has been crazy.  My search for for the right bulb has now ended with success.  There might be other brands and models that work equally well now, but these I can vouch for:  JDM Astar 1156PY amber.  I purchased them from Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XV4W686 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XV4W686)  for $18 a pair.   Also can be seen on their site (for more $): https://www.jdmastar.com/5730-smd-7507-1156py-bau15s-led-bulbs.html (https://www.jdmastar.com/5730-smd-7507-1156py-bau15s-led-bulbs.html)  Remember, you cannot use "regular" 1156 bulbs in the Concours because the pips on the side are orientated differently.  So the "Y" is important.   

These bulbs have 24 x 5730 SMD (24 5.7mm x 3mm surface mount device) LED chips on them, two rows of 9 around the body, and then 6 on the end and the end is capped with a lens to spread the light.  As such, they have an excellent light pattern that throws light in nearly all directions.  No LED light will have a pattern as good as incandescent, because those have a single filament in the middle, equally visible from all angles.  LED chips are very directional, but this arrangement with the lens helps tremendously.  The light fills all the reflectors.  The color is a little bit more yellow and less orange than stock amber incandescents, but it looks perfectly fine to me.

First task were the rear turn signals.  That was easy.  They are easily opened with a single screw each and replacement takes all of a few minutes.  The result was fantastic.  I estimate the JDM Astar bulbs are at about 50% brighter than stock/standard 1156 incandescent bulbs.   See the following photographs for comparisons of the two.  I will say that at night, they are so bright, I make sure to turn off my signals when sitting at a light when there is a car behind me, just so as not to be annoying  (I actually usually do that in all vehicles, but I make sure of it now).

[Continued on next post]
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 12, 2016, 03:39:33 pm
[Continued from previous post]

The two remaining photos of the rear signals are on this post (there is a limit of photos per posting).

Remember that to use LED bulbs for turn signals, you must either install two load resistors (one on each side) or replace the flasher relay with a solid state device that is designed specifically for the purpose (much, much better solution, since load resistors are big, have to be mounted somewhere, waste power, and get very hot).  I recommend the following from another posting I made:  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg242704#msg242704 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg242704#msg242704)

[Continued on next post]
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 12, 2016, 03:48:11 pm
[Continued from previous post]

The next challenge are the front turn signals (or running lights).  First, I strongly recommend my modification to turn the front lights into "running lights" so they light ALL the time and blink OFF to function as turn signals.  It greatly improves the side visibility of the bike which improves safety.  If interested, see:  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236)

The fronts are particularly challenging because it requires disassembly of a lot of stuff to get to the bulbs (the center cover, the side dash trims, the mid fairing, and finally the front fairing.  One note- you do not have to completely remove the mid fairing, just enough to get to one bolt that holds the front fairing (especially useful if you installed crash bars).  And you don't have to remove the bottom rivet or pull off the front fairing all the way to reach end and gain access to the bulb.

The comparison/results can be seen below.  Again, I provided some low-exposure photos so you can actually see the two bulbs instead of just bright blobs.

[Continued on next post]
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 12, 2016, 03:53:05 pm
[Continued from last post]

And the final photos.

So far I am very impressed, and for half the price the inferior bulbs were in the past.  The big question is- will they last?  That is hard to say right now.  The thing that kills LED bulbs is usually heat.  The brighter the bulb, the more heat, and it is hard to get rid of that heat when sealed inside a tiny air/water tight chamber.  JDM Astar bulbs include a 1 year warranty.  I will update this serious of postings with additional information in the future.

JDM Astar has lots of bulbs.  I also had great success with their 194 bulbs for the "city lights" which you can read about here: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18301.msg265940#msg265940 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18301.msg265940#msg265940)

[End]
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 13, 2016, 03:49:07 pm
Footnote- there was some earlier chat about the bike "freaking out" when using the solid state flasher "relay" unit- if you turn the ignition off while the flasher was already is in use (on).  I meant to report earlier that this is absolutely true.  I have no idea exactly why, but it is quite scary.  The display/computer goes crazy flashing on and off and lots of relays clicking and so on (at least it did with the model I used).  Can't be good for the bike.

I just had never had that happen to me before because I had never left the flashers on when turning off the bike, until recently (even though I meant to test it earlier).
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: sailor_chic on June 14, 2016, 06:47:34 am
Great write up Max! I will soon be following in your footsteps. The biggest hurdle right now is obtaining the flasher. Every place that I searched for the DMP  LED Flasher, is sold out.

Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 14, 2016, 03:35:00 pm
Great write up Max! I will soon be following in your footsteps. The biggest hurdle right now is obtaining the flasher. Every place that I searched for the DMP  LED Flasher, is sold out.

It is probably not the only one that will work, but the only one I can vouch for.  You might have to try a different one.  The flasher is pretty easy to replace (compared to the front bulbs!)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 22, 2016, 05:41:30 pm
I want to give props to Gigantor for getting us started down this path (I'm sure others have, too) and, especially, maxtog for all the work he has done recommending and showing off the JDM astar LED lights. I did my city lights the other day and just finished my front and rear blinkers and want to give some more options.

First, JDM is the real deal. I'm impressed with the lights we've found- both packaging and product. If they last as long as they should, then we have a real winner. The lights are extremely bright- way brighter than the filament bulbs they replaced- and are well worth the upgrade IMO. I purchased two pair of city lights and three pair of blinkers so I would have two spares for each application.

Here's a review of what I did, and I may have a special surprise for some of you interested in doing this project. My stuff:

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=747)

My bulbs arrived directly from JDM via USPS as a 2-pack and a 4-pack (I had already removed two of the bulbs from the shown 4-pack). These were $18/pair through amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XV4W686/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XV4W686/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I also ordered the flasher relay shown through amazon and it works perfectly https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RM26LXO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RM26LXO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Incidentally, it is called iJDMTOY, but there's no connection to JDM astar.

Also shown is the OE flasher relay and a little square rubber bumper that fell out of the bike as I was installing the flasher relay. Anybody know where this goes? I couldn't find it, but the adhesive on one side had dried up a little, I suppose.

So here is a pic of the relay I installed upside down so that the mounting tab would just slide into the slot where the OE relay was held in place by the rubber holder. This seemed better than taking that off and tie wrapping.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=746)

For reference, here's a closeup of the OE and JDM bulbs.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=748)

Okay, now for the surprise. It seemed foolish to pull the bike apart just to change the two blinker bulbs and I wasn't looking forward to it. There had to be a better way… and there was! You don't have to take the bike apart to get to the front bulbs. Remove the two hex head screws above the chrome Kawasaki badge and the two Phillips screws in the wheel well (one is at the top corner next to the blinker lens; the other is down low near the radiator). Once you do this, you can pry back on the fairing with your finger and access the bulb socket (it's light grey with the green and yellow wires). Twist and pull out. I changed both bulbs in about 10 minutes with no stress placed on the fairing.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=749)

Being able to do that made this an especially satisfying upgrade. So now there's another source for a flasher relay and a better way to change the front bulb. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 22, 2016, 06:43:18 pm
Okay, now for the surprise. It seemed foolish to pull the bike apart just to change the two blinker bulbs and I wasn't looking forward to it. There had to be a better way… and there was! You don't have to take the bike apart to get to the front bulbs. Remove the two hex head screws above the chrome Kawasaki badge and the two Phillips screws in the wheel well (one is at the top corner next to the blinker lens; the other is down low near the radiator). Once you do this, you can pry back on the fairing with your finger and access the bulb socket (it's light grey with the green and yellow wires). Twist and pull out. I changed both bulbs in about 10 minutes with no stress placed on the fairing.

Interesting.  On mine, there is a large bolt that holds the "Kawasaki" panel which is BEHIND the panel beside it, and it is impossible to pry back that Kawasaki panel without removing the bolt which also requires removing the panel next to it.   The three panels are all keyed into each other with tabs, too.  The factory manual agrees with me.  Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I am about 90% sure on this.  The question then becomes- is my memory faulty?  Or are you just missing those two bolts on yours?  Or is it just the tabs and you broke some?  Or did they actually change that on later years (seems very improbable).  Inquiring minds!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 22, 2016, 06:59:44 pm
I will be happy to look again, but let's rule out a couple of things. Mine is a 2011, same as yours. I've never had the bike apart before, so no broken tabs. I bought the bike new, so no one else broke tabs (well, you know...). Nothing popped when I ppied back. I have a service manual; will look and report back.

That didn't take long. I don't see anything in the SM that would prevent anyone from doing what I did. Notice I pried from the front of the bike and reached into the nose of the bike from the front to get the socket. You must be talking about getting to the socket from the rear, between the upper and middle fairings where all the tabs are. No tabs or bolts from the front.

Notice in my pic you can see the radiator? I'm in front of the bike.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 22, 2016, 07:31:00 pm
Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I am about 90% sure on this. 

I agree, your memory is faulty.

Joking 'max, yes I don't see how it would work as shown in his photo if that one screw is in place at the upper rear. A larger photo would help but it appears that the upper rear of the panel is out on his and I just don't see how that would happen if the bolt located there is in place. There really is only one two tabs there so they might be flexible enough to work if that bolt isn't in place. The adjacent panel really tabs into the inner panel.

Well I just came in from the garage and I couldn't get it to work (2010). I pulled the four screws but it was still too firmly attached at the rear for me to feel comfortable to apply any more bending pressure from the front, got a couple of fingers in but that's it (easy boys). Too bad as that would have been really convenient if it worked.  :(

Here is the picture of mine when I was doing horn work, the hole at the upper right above the clear air line and below the well nut is where the bolt we are referring to goes through.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CCThFHc/1/M/i-CCThFHc-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CCThFHc/1/O/i-CCThFHc.jpg)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 22, 2016, 08:06:23 pm
That didn't take long. I don't see anything in the SM that would prevent anyone from doing what I did. Notice I pried from the front of the bike and reached into the nose of the bike from the front to get the socket. You must be talking about getting to the socket from the rear, between the upper and middle fairings where all the tabs are. No tabs or bolts from the front.

Nope, I wasn't (I don't know what max' was referring to but then I never do...joking again max') I was referring to the front, you see that little inverted triangle of light that you have in your photo at the rear of the panel as you pull it out Dad'flip? Mine doesn't do that because there is a screw there going through the rear of that panel into a frame stay. I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, I wanted it to work I really did. Maybe I'm just too chicken to put that much force on mine, although I've been sort of brutal on it as many times as I've had it apart in the past.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 22, 2016, 09:04:49 pm
Thanks guys; that's what we're here for- to work it out. Okay, I blew up the 'triangle of light' photo and you will see that it is a reflection off the bike above the Kawasaki panel, which is still intact (look closely). Good eye fm; I didn't notice it at first.  Click on all these photos to make them much bigger.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=750)

So I went out and took the bike apart again.  In fm's photo, I removed the four screws that make a backwards '7' across the top and down the left edge of that panel. The big bolt stays in place in the hole in the top right. Taking out those four screws and pulling on the front corner of the Kawasaki panel reveals the inside with the blinker bulb socket.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=751)

If I hold that with my finger and back away with the camera, you can see that the Kawasaki panel is still connected to the middle fairing attached with the big bolt. The Kawasaki panel is not pulled out and away from the middle fairing or creating a triangle of light.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=752)

The gap in the front corner is almost three inches, enough for me to get my hand in up to my wrist and place my fingers easily on the bulb socket.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=753)

Backing the camera up a little bit and holding my hand in place, you can see better how much access I have.  It's really not putting stress on the other panels and the four screws holes line back up easily. I don't have any problems with it. BTW, the distance between the well nut and the hole in the Kawasaki panel shown here is abut 1.75 inches.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=754)

Is there something missing on my bike that I need to look for? Both sides are exactly the same, so I would be missing it on both sides, which is less likely if there were a major issue. Are you willing to try again fm?
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 22, 2016, 09:21:50 pm
Thanks guys; that's what we're here for- to work it out. Okay, I blew up the 'triangle of light' photo and you will see that it is a reflection off the bike above the Kawasaki panel, which is still intact (look closely). Good eye fm; I didn't notice it at first.  Click on all these photos to make them much bigger

AH SOOOOO...I see it now, the reflection that I thought was a gap. That's what I get for joking with max'. Thanks Dad'flip.

Are you willing to try again fm?

Yes, but not tonight. I just ordered the LEDs and a flasher from Amazon so I'm going to wait until they get here. I'll report back when I do the install.
Thanks for checking on that for us.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 22, 2016, 09:28:50 pm
As much as I try, I can't make sense of the photos.  But I do appreciate them and the info.  I look forward to more information because it really is a total PITA to get to those bulbs and a better method is a huge bonus!  In any case, I am very glad everyone is happy with these bulbs!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 22, 2016, 09:40:02 pm
Do you mean I am providing poor photos (angle, perspective, distance, etc.) or you just can't wrap your head around what I'm doing?
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 22, 2016, 10:01:51 pm
I don't know if I'm making this better or worse by getting my wife to take photos of me demonstrating in my boxer shorts, but here goes. (Click on all photos to make them much larger.) Okay, I'm sitting in a folding chair in front of the bike with the four screws already removed and my finger on the point/corner of the Kawasaki panel.  I have not pulled it back yet.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=755)

Now I have applied a little pressure and pulled that corner away from the upper fairing. The light grey thing just inches away from my finger is the bulb socket.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=756)

Same position but change the camera angle. Disregard the gut.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=757)

Camera back over my left shoulder looking at my hand inside the panel on the bulb socket.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=758)

Drop the camera down to radiator level and see the gap between the Kawasaki panel and the inner fairing.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=759)

I don't recall the specific reason for this shot, but another showing easy access between these panels.

(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=760)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 22, 2016, 10:25:44 pm
Do you mean I am providing poor photos (angle, perspective, distance, etc.) or you just can't wrap your head around what I'm doing?
I'll go out on a limb and say it's probably the latter. One thinks of the removal of the panel like the other ones, but the front one is different in that it is assembly of an inner and outer
panel. When I installed my horns in there I removed the panel and then disassembled it. However you are partially disassembling the panel on the bike, that is the inner panel is detached
from the outer panel but remains in place on the bike, then the upper part of the outer panel is detached from the bike and pulled away from both the bike and the inner panel on the bike. I think
if max' examines his bike with that in mind he'll get it. I'll admit that I'm still apprehensive about pulling the panel aside that hard to get my hand in there but I'll give it a shot.

I don't know if I'm making this better or worse by getting my wife to take photos of me demonstrating in my boxer shorts, but here goes.
Wow, getting the Mrs involved, you are dedicated. You must think max' is important or something. ;)  But yeah, next time put some pants on.  :P
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 22, 2016, 10:33:09 pm
You have given an accurate verbal description of what I'm trying to show in the photos. I'm not pressing that hard on the outer panel. That is why I'm only using one finger to create the gap. Notice that when my hand is in there on the socket, I am not holding the panel with my other hand to create the gap; it really doesn't take any pressure at all. Notice that my arm enters the gap sort of low, just below the upper screw hole of the inner fairing. This is where the largest opening is and so there is little to no stress on the panel where it sort of 'hinges' at the large bolt we've been talking about.

I'm flabbergasted that this is not standard practice. It seems my bike would have to be missing a major component on both sides that would normally prevent my doing this, but it just seems like common sense to me. There's nothing else in that area to hold the two panels together; just those two coarse screws. No tabs or bolts.

Somebody prove me wrong or right.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 23, 2016, 05:15:21 am
Do you mean I am providing poor photos (angle, perspective, distance, etc.) or you just can't wrap your head around what I'm doing?

It was both.  (The lighting and angles and too close and black bike made it difficult).  With your new set of photos and description (plus the description in the previous post above), it is now crystal clear.  Thanks!

Quote
I'm flabbergasted that this is not standard practice.
The factory manual indicates which panels have to be removed and that is what most would go by, I imagine.  It was for me.  I wish I had known this new information before spending hours doing it all the hard way!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on June 23, 2016, 06:59:35 am
The factory manual indicates which panels have to be removed and that is what most would go by, I imagine.  It was for me.  I wish I had known this new information before spending hours doing it all the hard way!

Laziness, frustration, and indignation are the mother of invention.

When I was looking in the ELECTRICAL section of the manual where the lighting is, there was no mention of the FRONT turn signal bulbs on p. 16-67 (where the rear bulb replacement instructions are located). I'm like, "what's going on here?"  I didn't even bother to go look in the FRAME section; I just determined to figure out how to get in there without pulling the bike apart. After further review, they could have made the front just like the rear... two tabs and one screw. I'm sure there's a guvment regulation against it, though.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 23, 2016, 07:02:17 am
Pure genius!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: Deziner on June 23, 2016, 07:02:32 am
Flat rate!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on June 27, 2016, 05:28:37 pm
Somebody prove me wrong or right.

You are proven right...or correct...or..well I did it too and it worked for me.

The right side went easy, the left side was a problem as I tried to put it back together the bottom inside Phillips head screw just wouldn't line up. I was expecting problems. As I mentioned earlier I have a horn in each of those compartments and some other LED wiring that I had installed earlier for the running lights. However, upon removing the other screws and looking in with a flashlight I spied something blue down there blocking the hole. I reach down in there and "what the he.."...I found my T handled 4mm Allen wrench that had been missing for over a year.  ::)  :-[  Once it was removed and returned to it's long empty hole in the holder, the pieces then lined up just like the right side did..easy peezy. I got a few red marks on my hands and wrists when trying to take the bulb holder out and back in, but they'll be gone tomorrow.

I then tested everything and watched the hyper flashing thinking that maybe it was a good thing. Certainly noticeable. However it was too fast for all my other lighting (top case lights and double Admore light bars) to keep up in the rear and everything seemed to end up out of sync so I took off the front of the side cover to put in the electronic flasher. I found renewed and increased dislike for those three bottom plastic rivets that I've always disliked. I Installed the flasher which was a simple plug n play as it had the same connector as the old one only missing one wire insert. Everything worked. I tried turning off the bike with the turn signal on looking for the crazy flashing bizzaro world light show that max' had mentioned but nothing. I then tried shutting it off with the four way flashers in the on position and HELL-OH! The lights were all flashing, the glove box latch was clicking, the Speedo and tach were both doing the spin the needle thing over and over..whoa I shut that all off right quick. The fuel pump might have been cycling on and off as well ..there was so much going on it was hard to take it all in. I was guessing that it was that final KIPASS flash that we get that was causing the problem and that somehow there was a back current going on when that happened causing the whole light show thing. I'm pretty sure that there is one fuse that controls only that blinking (It shows as the "KIPASS Signal relay fuse 10A" on the wiring diagram in fuse box 3, but on my bike the fuse box is labeled as "10A answer back") and maybe I could just remove that fuse and go without the start up shutdown KIPASS flash....but.... would that upset "the Mighty MAD POWAHs of KIPASS"?...I wasn't going to chance it, so I started experimenting. I cut the black wire on the electronic flasher and using a couple of jumper wires I inserted a diode into the circuit and tested the shutdown with the four way flashers and it shutdown with the usual one KIPASS flash and remained quiet. The diode was just a one amp Radio Shack component I had sitting around. I searched for a larger one but, NO, none there. I found another 1 amp diode and soldered them in parallel to get a 2 amp diode out of them into the black wire with the diode's silver band on the bike end of the wire leads (photo below). I successfully tested it and then taped and wrapped it all up.

SPECIAL THANKS! to: PeteTN_zgtr, maxtog, and DaddyFlip for all the good info.   :chugbeer: :thumbs: :salute: :finger_fing11:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bdgfQfm/0/M/i-bdgfQfm-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bdgfQfm/0/O/i-bdgfQfm.jpg)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on June 27, 2016, 06:21:44 pm
I tried turning off the bike with the turn signal on looking for the crazy flashing bizzaro world light show that max' had mentioned but nothing. I then tried shutting it off with the four way flashers in the on position and HELL-OH! The lights were all flashing, the glove box latch was clicking, the Speedo and tach were both doing the spin the needle thing over and over..whoa I shut that all off right quick.

Told ya- it is totally freakout!  Makes one panic and want to turn off everything quickly.  I don't think I had the problem with the turn signals, but with the hazard 4-way, WOW!

Quote
I cut the black wire on the electronic flasher and using a couple of jumper wires I inserted a diode into the circuit and tested the shutdown with the four way flashers and it shutdown with the usual one KIPASS flash and remained quiet. The diode was just a one amp Radio Shack component I had sitting around.

Very cool job!   :finger_fing11:  I thought about researching and putting a diode in there somewhere, myself.... but my basic lazy nature took over and I said to myself "hey, just don't turn off the bike when the hazard lights are on!"  (Not like they are used that much, anyway).  It is too bad these electronic flashers don't have diodes in them to begin with!
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on August 27, 2016, 06:59:09 am
You are proven right...or correct...or..well I did it too and it worked for me.

...so I took off the front of the side cover to put in the electronic flasher. I found renewed and increased dislike for those three bottom plastic rivets that I've always disliked.

The first time I changed the flasher, I also developed a distaste for the bottom plastic rivets. So I decided I wouldn't fool with those anymore. The flasher can be changed easily by removing only the single Allen head that is under the seat and pulling the panel away from the front (there are two plastic bungs that locate into rubber grommets). You have to remove the pannier, too.

.... but my basic lazy nature took over and I said to myself "hey, just don't turn off the bike when the hazard lights are on!"

Good ol' laziness. My method exactly.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: kzz1king on August 27, 2016, 10:42:41 am
When I first seen this thread I disregarded because I dont plan to run led's. But I like the info for changing bulbs. Can the title be changed to reflect the great info at the end? I am afraid I will disregard it in my favorites. Thanks Daddy Flip!
Wayne
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: fartymarty on August 27, 2016, 11:48:08 am
But I like the info for changing bulbs. Can the title be changed to reflect the great info at the end?

Maybe make the request to the OP Gigantor in a PM? What would you suggest as a replacement....."Led Turn signal bulbs (plus easier access to the fronts!)"  ??

You can't really change the whole flavor of the title because to some of us the fact that there is now a viable (bright enough) LED alternative to a filament bulb is as important
as the easier access technique.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: kzz1king on August 27, 2016, 12:51:37 pm
BINGO :D I like that title, it reflects the post.Iwas a member here fora long time beforeIdiscoveredI could bookmark posts ::)
Wayne



Maybe make the request to the OP Gigantor in a PM? What would you suggest as a replacement....."Led Turn signal bulbs (plus easier access to the fronts!)"  ??

You can't really change the whole flavor of the title because to some of us the fact that there is now a viable (bright enough) LED alternative to a filament bulb is as important
as the easier access technique.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on August 27, 2016, 12:56:19 pm
BINGO :D I like that title, it reflects the post.Iwas a member here fora long time before I discovered I could bookmark posts ::)

I have seen the menu option about a list of bookmarks, but I have never seen a way to actually bookmark a posting within the forum.  Is there some type of hidden magical icon or button I am not seeing??
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on August 27, 2016, 02:10:54 pm
Huhmph... that was easy. Click the button at the top or bottom of the page that says "ADD BOOKMARK" (it's right next to the dark REPLY button) then click on the "My Bookmarks" button at the top of the screen. There it is.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: kzz1king on August 27, 2016, 02:34:39 pm
I have seen the menu option about a list of bookmarks, but I have never seen a way to actually bookmark a posting within the forum.  Is there some type of hidden magical icon or button I am not seeing??
I am glad that I am not the only slow one!!
 8)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on August 27, 2016, 03:26:56 pm
Huhmph... that was easy. Click the button at the top or bottom of the page that says "ADD BOOKMARK" (it's right next to the dark REPLY button) then click on the "My Bookmarks" button at the top of the screen. There it is.

Thanks, I see it now (although only at the top of the page).  My problem is that I was trying to figure out how to bookmark postings, not whole threads.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: DaddyFlip on August 27, 2016, 05:14:56 pm
If you are interested in bookmarking individual posts, and are willing to have your bookmarks live OUTSIDE of the forum, that is, in your browser, then there is an easy way. You can bookmark individual posts just like you would bookmark the homepage of this forum or any other web page.

1. Click on the title of the post you want to bookmark. The title is just to the right of the poster's name at the top of the post.
2. The web page will refresh with the post moved to the top of your browser window and you will notice that the web page title changes to include the topic and message number.
3. Use the Add Bookmark function of your browser to save the page as a bookmark. You may want to setup a separate folder in the bookmarks section of your browser dedicated to forum posts you want to save.
4. You can give these bookmarks any name you want to make them easy to identify for whatever drew YOUR attention to the thread or post. If you want to bookmark multiple posts from the same thread, make sure to give each post a unique name because your browser will use the topic title as the default bookmark name.

Very easy.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on August 27, 2016, 07:31:47 pm
If you are interested in bookmarking individual posts, and are willing to have your bookmarks live OUTSIDE of the forum, that is, in your browser, then there is an easy way. You can bookmark individual posts just like you would bookmark the homepage of this forum or any other web page.

Yeah, I have done that for years.... I was just trying to see if the forum could do it too.  Nope.  No big whoop
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on November 10, 2016, 07:43:03 pm
So far I am very impressed, and for half the price the inferior bulbs were in the past.  The big question is- will they last?  That is hard to say right now.

Bad news- I noticed the right bulb was partially flickering.  I looked closely and can see there are several LEDs in the bulb that are flickering occasionally, randomly, like there is a bad connection on the board.

5 months is not a very good life at all (not even a hundred hours?)  Granted, mine are on the ENTIRE time the bike is on, since they are running lights, but still..... I ran the super-hot stock incandescent bulbs all the time too, for YEARS AND YEARS, an neither burned out.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on March 05, 2017, 01:33:14 pm
Bad news- I noticed the right bulb was partially flickering.  I looked closely and can see there are several LEDs in the bulb that are flickering occasionally, randomly, like there is a bad connection on the board.

5 months is not a very good life at all (not even a hundred hours?)  Granted, mine are on the ENTIRE time the bike is on, since they are running lights, but still..... I ran the super-hot stock incandescent bulbs all the time too, for YEARS AND YEARS, an neither burned out.

Update-  It has been 4 months and no other bulb problems.  A week after writing the above, I ordered another set to have a few spares.   Yesterday I finally got around to swapping out the defective/flickering bulb with a new one.  I wrote JDM/Astar asking if they will send a replacement.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on March 10, 2017, 03:41:52 pm
Update-  It has been 4 months and no other bulb problems.  A week after writing the above, I ordered another set to have a few spares.   Yesterday I finally got around to swapping out the defective/flickering bulb with a new one.  I wrote JDM/Astar asking if they will send a replacement.

And  a few days  later they wrote back saying they will send me a replacement, and without my paying to ship the defective bulb back to them.  Two days later and I have it in my hand!  So that is customer service.  +1 to ADM/Astar!  https://www.jdmastar.com (https://www.jdmastar.com)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on May 16, 2017, 06:18:08 pm
And  a few days  later they wrote back saying they will send me a replacement, and without my paying to ship the defective bulb back to them.  Two days later and I have it in my hand!  So that is customer service.  +1 to ADM/Astar!  https://www.jdmastar.com (https://www.jdmastar.com)

And now the other originally send LED bulb is flickering in exactly the same way (only the front LED emitters and not the side ones).  I suppose I should have expected that.  Contacted JDM and they requested a video and other specs which I sent them, and they said it could be heat related and are sending a replacement for that one too (at no charge and without shipping the defective bulb back).  I have a feeling the replacement bulbs will do no better, failing after 5 to 12 months.  I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: ginzburg on July 08, 2019, 05:26:32 pm
Is there a better explanation as to why bike goes haywire with this 2-wire led blinker?

I saw where someone took apart a different 2-wire flasher and drew a circuit. It looked like it did have a diode built in. The mosfet also has a built in diode in the opposite direction.

Obviously there is back EMF from somewhere, but it seems like switching off a led wouldn't cause it. I thought usually this happens when switching inductive loads.

It does look like there is a 3-wire led blinker that could work. These supposedly have the advantage of starting with led on and the 2-wire starts with it off.  The 2-wire is much more common though.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on July 08, 2019, 11:33:42 pm
I have a feeling the replacement bulbs will do no better, failing after 5 to 12 months.  I guess time will tell.

Yep, both replacement front bulbs are now occasionally, partially flickering.  But at least it was much longer than 12 months this time.  They are not designed for 100% "on" use, which I recognize.  Still, the extreme brightness is worth it to me... plus I can swap the rears to the front for more use (because it doesn't matter if the rears flicker).  I bought another set with the last round.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on July 09, 2019, 12:04:10 am
Is there a better explanation as to why bike goes haywire with this 2-wire led blinker?   I saw where someone took apart a different 2-wire flasher and drew a circuit. It looked like it did have a diode built in. The mosfet also has a built in diode in the opposite direction.  Obviously there is back EMF from somewhere, but it seems like switching off a led wouldn't cause it. I thought usually this happens when switching inductive loads.


Seems odd to me, also.  But it really isn't that much of an issue.  Only problem is if you leave the turn signal on WHILE turning off the bike, and even then, just turn off the turn signal to stop the bike from freaking.

Quote
It does look like there is a 3-wire led blinker that could work. These supposedly have the advantage of starting with led on and the 2-wire starts with it off.  The 2-wire is much more common though.


Not sure what you mean by "starting with the led on".  If that means the blinker switches the lights OFF and leaves all 4 of them "on" the rest of the time (when turn signal is off), that is inappropriate (as I have posted before).  It is improper/illegal to show yellow lights on the rear full time, and if they were switched to red bulbs, they would then de-emphasize the brake lights.  Blinking off is only a great concept for the fronts, not the rears (which is why I had to make a special circuit using a relay for the fronts only  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236.0) )
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: ginzburg on July 09, 2019, 03:17:35 pm
"starting with the led on" means that when you press the turn signal button the light comes on right away and then it blinks off and continues to flash. It isn't on all the time.

I read somewhere that the 2-wire flashers typically start in the off portion of the cycle so there is a delay period before the light comes on. I don't know if this is actually the case or not. I ordered the 2-wire flasher. I might order the other flasher I saw with three wires.

I think that I found the right switchbacks for the front and plain amber for the back and so they should just plug in. That would be nice. They will take a while to get here.



Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on July 09, 2019, 06:00:50 pm
"starting with the led on" means that when you press the turn signal button the light comes on right away and then it blinks off and continues to flash. [...]  I read somewhere that the 2-wire flashers typically start in the off portion of the cycle so there is a delay period before the light comes on. I don't know if this is actually the case or not. I ordered the 2-wire flasher. I might order the other flasher I saw with three wires.

My understanding:  Traditionally, it is the current flowing through the 2 wire circuit that enables the old-fashioned flashers to heat up a bimetal strip, using the light filaments to limit the current, and then break it when it gets hot, turning the lights off, the bimetal strip cools and bends back, then completes the circuit again.  This would require the lights to come on immediately when the turn signal switch is first activated, no?
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: ginzburg on July 09, 2019, 11:34:40 pm
I thought the original flasher is solid state, but maybe it is the old style. I thought all led flashers would be solid state, but I don't know.

I found the video and comment here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWQCSdkiYXg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWQCSdkiYXg)

Harryoldhippy says

"Trouble with electronic 2-wire units is the flash cycle starts with the 'off' condition. Old mechanicals start the cycle with the 'on' condition. This half second delay can be life and death on a bike. It's much easier to design electronically for 3-wire units to begin the cycle with the 'on' condition than 2-wire though I don't know if they all perform like this. Best to check out the units before slotting in if this is important to you. With a modicum of gumption It's easy enough wiring in a 3-wire -- some with load/speed adjusters have bulb failure fast-flash alert even with LEDs."

This 2-wire relays advertises that it turns on right away and that some have a delay. So I guess it is really something to look out for.

https://www.customled.com/products/elfr-1-electronic-led-flasher-relay (https://www.customled.com/products/elfr-1-electronic-led-flasher-relay)

The one I ordered is what I think is the really common one that is shaped more like a box. I don't know if it will have a delay or not. It looks like the one that needs the diode fix. That would be ok, but I sort of want to get one that just plugs in.
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: maxtog on July 10, 2019, 05:34:05 am
I thought the original flasher is solid state,

No, it is bimetal.  That is why it doesn't work properly with LED.

Quote
but maybe it is the old style. I thought all led flashers would be solid state, but I don't know.

Yes, LED and most modern flashers (even those without LED or a mix) are solid state.  Many vehicles are now ECU controlled (so there is no "flasher").

Quote
The one I ordered is what I think is the really common one that is shaped more like a box. I don't know if it will have a delay or not. It looks like the one that needs the diode fix. That would be ok, but I sort of want to get one that just plugs in.

Yeah, I wish mine had the diodes.  I suppose I could add one, but I didn't know about it at first and now I am too lazy. :)
Title: Re: Led Turn signal bulbs
Post by: ginzburg on July 23, 2019, 05:51:27 pm
It looks like the led bulbs are the source of the inductance. They appear to have a switched inductor to control the current.  I would think  the diode should be from the load to ground as a flyback diode. The diode in series doesn't make much sense to me. It sounded like it was done through trial and error so that is why I am looking for an alternative.

Aside from the obvious method of adding a wire with a diode to ground, is there somewhere else this could be easily accomplished? It looks like the third wire is a ground. I thought it was something else though. That might be the easiest place to jump the diode across. I will need to look at the actual plug when I get finally get it.