Kawasaki Concours Forum

Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: B.D.F. on July 23, 2015, 06:12:30 pm

Title: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on July 23, 2015, 06:12:30 pm
It absolutely, unequivocally, HAD to happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI--wFfipvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI--wFfipvA)

Kids, huh? I would have used a M1911 myself but hey, we all know kids today are idiots.  ;) ;D

Very, very cool. And at the moment, perfectly legal. But that will change very quickly, first on a state level and then nationally (and internationally although most countries already restrict handguns, so they are often illegal with or without being mounted to anything).

Drones in general have really kicked the proverbial door wide open regarding legislation because they have the potential to cause significant damage to life and property and because there is nothing inherently wrong or illegal about them (at the moment). I can make a couple of obvious predictions though: Drones will be heavily regulated, possibly including licensing (of the owner, the drone or both) and there will be controls put in them to limit their actions (just as there are anti-  piracy chips in all Blu Ray players, required by law). Secondly, there are going to be a LOT of drones in the future because they are useful and hey, they are cool. Third: there will be 'drone deaths' as a result in the future. It is inevitable and cannot be prevented, merely lessened and controlled, exactly the same way automobile deaths have been lessened and controlled but not eliminated. I think this is going to be a fascinating legal / moral / rights issue to watch unfold.

Brian
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on July 24, 2015, 07:21:38 am
Privately owned radio controlled aircraft have been around for more than half a century. But for reasons I don't fully understand (maybe it's due to youtube), radio controlled quad copters have caught the public eye and now "something has got to be done about them...". I guarantee that there have been guns fired from RC model aircraft more than 50 years ago. I saw someone in the 60's rig bottle rockets on an RC aircraft (didn't work very well as the airplane out flew the rockets). Not much of a leap from there to a tube with propellent and projectile. I predict that this will fan the flames of the brewhaha over "drones" and possible legislation but bathtubs will still kill infinitely more people than drones.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 24, 2015, 07:53:00 am
It is amazing how stable the drone is in light of the recoil from the pistol. 

Drones are being used for so many useful endeavors today and have evolved far beyond a hobby.

Some endeavors legal, and some not so legal.  Can't wait to try out the flying motorcycle quadcopter. 

https://youtu.be/mNkLjv--q7Y
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on July 24, 2015, 08:49:33 am
The three huge differences between current drones and previous remotely controlled air vehicles are 1) drones are stable and 'self flying', with on- board gyros and GPS. 2) They are nearly silent (compare this to a typical size '60' remote control helicopter, using a 0.6 cu. in. alcohol fueled engine). 3) They have outstanding, real- time video telemetry systems.

Anyone can fly a drone, that is not the case for R/C aircraft, especially helicopters, which require a significant amount of skill. R/C aircraft cannot self- fly, and must be in relatively close physical range of the pilot so that he / she can not only see the vehicle but see what it is doing (attitude, direction, etc.).

The FAA has been working on regulating drones for some time and a ruling is expected shortly. This is because little Johnny can get his new drone, set it to go to 500' autonomously, and send it up into the path of people- carrying aircraft landing at the airport next door.... not good. Drones using lithium battery power can lift significant amounts of weight and again have excellent video on board; those two together make a rather effective weapon when the drone is used to drop objects onto 'stuff'. This most recent development with a drone carrying and firing a pistol has much more possibilities; given a video system and the drone's ability to very accurately hover, it is only a matter of time before this combination is used as a weapons platform.

I certainly do not foresee millions of drones shooting millions of people or causing international incidents or anything of the kind. But I do believe drone accidents, drone 'on purposes' and other assorted problems will show up as drones become more commonplace.

All of that said, I am in no way anti- drone and frankly think they are the coolest things since tomatoes in cans. If or when Amazon gets the green- light to deliver products with drones, I will be the first one to order the cheapest thing that a drone will deliver and wait outside for it to appear. :-)  I am merely saying that along with drones will come drone problems, exactly the same way cars brought us car accidents and electrical power brought us electrical fires and accidental electrocution. Both of those last two are considered more beneficial than harmful so we tolerate the damage they do to reap the benefits they yield, and I think it will be the exact same way with drones. But I also believe they will be regulated and controlled in the future simply because they do open up new avenues of.... potential miss-adventure.

Brian

Privately owned radio controlled aircraft have been around for more than half a century. But for reasons I don't fully understand (maybe it's due to youtube), radio controlled quad copters have caught the public eye and now "something has got to be done about them...". I guarantee that there have been guns fired from RC model aircraft more than 50 years ago. I saw someone in the 60's rig bottle rockets on an RC aircraft (didn't work very well as the airplane out flew the rockets). Not much of a leap from there to a tube with propellent and projectile. I predict that this will fan the flames of the brewhaha over "drones" and possible legislation but bathtubs will still kill infinitely more people than drones.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on July 24, 2015, 11:19:22 am
nice......
http://youtu.be/SNPJMk2fgJU (http://youtu.be/SNPJMk2fgJU)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Nosmo on July 24, 2015, 02:04:48 pm
If armed drones aren't illegal, then I can build a fighter drone to shoot down a$$hole drones.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 24, 2015, 05:15:29 pm
 :thumbs: :goodpost: Best idea I've heard yet..  Why not a drone that can fire an EMP and scramble the electronics of the target?  Hmmm, while the feds don't really like civilian weapons drones, they will absolutely hate an EMP firing drone.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Walker18 on July 24, 2015, 06:41:49 pm
So, what defense do we have against this? As civilians, folks can conceal carry legally,
but firing handguns in the air isn't very wise. 410 loads in one or two models is available,
but unless you've got a screw-on 28" barrel  taped to your leg, you won't have a prayer
of penetrating it, no less reaching it.
So, anybody in the market for a Kevlar umbrella??
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 24, 2015, 07:24:34 pm
Another great idea!
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on July 26, 2015, 12:50:09 pm
In the end, there IS NO defense against this. And it will be done in the future simply because it can be done. Inexpensive, [no skill required] drones can be purchased easily and now they have been weaponized; there is no way to un- ring that bell. I do not want to give anyone any ideas, and I am sure I am not but how long can it be before there are 'suicide drones' that are made to do nothing but damage personnel and property?

As I said, we now have (possess the ability to make) drones and there is no turning back. A gov't could make them outright illegal and yet they will still show up, and again, I believe weaponized. I mean car bombs are illegal too but that does not seem to be enough to eliminate them.

And I believe drones will prove useful to society overall. Therefore, we will tolerate the risk because it comes with more benefits, exactly the same way automobiles do. And besides all that, virtually all of us on this forum ride motorcycles simply because it is enjoyable but I think all rational persons would have to admit riding comes with increased risk that we accept.

But as far as an outright defense, especially one that is total or even close? I do not believe there is one....

Brian

So, what defense do we have against this?

<snip>

Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on July 27, 2015, 08:07:54 am
This is a group of people that ride motorcycles. And in this case a pretty fast motorcycle. Somebody do that math. I don't have any data but I will take a WAG. Your probably 1,000,000,000 times more likely to be hurt riding your motorcycle then getting shot by a drone.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Conniesaki on July 27, 2015, 08:11:56 am
This is a group of people that ride motorcycles. And in this case a pretty fast motorcycle. Somebody do that math. I don't have any data but I will take a WAG. Your probably 1,000,000,000 times more likely to be hurt riding your motorcycle then getting shot by a drone.

Yep.

For now.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Charlie747 on July 27, 2015, 08:30:13 am
This is a group of people that ride motorcycles. And in this case a pretty fast motorcycle. Somebody do that math. I don't have any data but I will take a WAG. Your probably 1,000,000,000 times more likely to be hurt riding your motorcycle then getting shot by a drone.

And long  may that hold true  :salute:
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rembrant on July 27, 2015, 05:40:35 pm
It absolutely, unequivocally, HAD to happen.


LOL. I suppose it DID have to happen, didn't it?... :o

I hear about these things in the news all the time, but I haven't been paying all that much attention to them.

Hey Brian, suppose you could program one to stack fire wood?...

Or shovel snow and carry it away to keep the banks down...LOL>

Rem
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: gPink on July 27, 2015, 05:45:36 pm
Don't you have day laborers hanging at the Waffle house in the mornings? Work pretty cheap for cash.  8)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rembrant on July 27, 2015, 05:56:16 pm
Don't you have day laborers hanging at the Waffle house in the mornings? Work pretty cheap for cash.  8)

Hahaha...nossir, we certainly do not...lol.

They were interviewing farmers on the radio the other day...can't find workers to pick berries or apples, or whatever.
All our ball fields and parks have grass that's knee high, and the lines on the streets need to be painted...

But, the locals get cranky when they start seeing too many TFW's around (Temporary Foreign Workers)...or Filipinos.

Meanwhile, we have chronic 25% "youth" unemployment...LOL.
The world is a funny place.

Now...about that Waffle House...I'm suddenly craving bacon and eggs...lol.

Cheers,
Rem

Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: gPink on July 27, 2015, 06:20:50 pm
TFWs, That's a new one. Still IAs around here.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Conniesaki on July 27, 2015, 07:29:54 pm
I see a TFW and think WTF.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 31, 2015, 05:40:16 am
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/man-shoots-down-drone-hovering-000032027.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/man-shoots-down-drone-hovering-000032027.html)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Classvino on July 31, 2015, 07:20:52 am
http://www.cnet.com/news/town-considers-licenses-for-drone-hunting/ (http://www.cnet.com/news/town-considers-licenses-for-drone-hunting/)

America's next sport.

Jamie
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: KevinRLi on July 31, 2015, 09:31:31 am
Just the tip of the iceberg for drone issues. Imagine a fleet packed with C4 in a city? Just a fleet packed with 9MM's would ruin a day at the park wouldn't it? How do you protect the public from crap like this and let the real hobbyists enjoy a really cool toy?
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on July 31, 2015, 11:34:00 am
And that right there is the entire problem: it is a cool toy, and even a cool working device (taking video of, say, down a chimney to do a flue inspection and a million other jobs) that has now been weaponized. The drone has not changed in the least but its potential use(s) has, or at least its potential has been shown to the world. As I said earlier in this thread, drones are here to stay and now they will always have the potential, exactly as you mentioned, to be used for some fairly scary purposes.  The real, final problem is that I do not think they can ever be fully curbed, controlled or limited....

But I also think the privacy issue is even more complex and interesting and it will take our legal and judicial system years or decades to work through.

Brian


Just the tip of the iceberg for drone issues. Imagine a fleet packed with C4 in a city? Just a fleet packed with 9MM's would ruin a day at the park wouldn't it? How do you protect the public from crap like this and let the real hobbyists enjoy a really cool toy?
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on July 31, 2015, 01:09:18 pm
I would be all for a law making it illegal to murder someone with a drone. Oh wait...

Now I absolutely agree with your statement regarding privacy being an even more complex issue.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: gPink on July 31, 2015, 01:22:00 pm
I would be all for a law making it illegal to murder someone with a drone. Oh wait...

Now I absolutely agree with your statement regarding privacy being an even more complex issue.
...and if they don't like the person they murder with the drone it could be a hate crime.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 01, 2015, 05:20:58 pm
Just the tip of the iceberg for drone issues. Imagine a fleet packed with C4 in a city? Just a fleet packed with 9MM's would ruin a day at the park wouldn't it? How do you protect the public from crap like this and let the real hobbyists enjoy a really cool toy?

Drones that can carry the payload to do real damage are going to be very costly.  The drones that are carrying max payload can only fly a few minutes.  They will get there though.  There are people already devising countermeasures to weaponized drones.

I wouldn't be surprised if serial numbers and registration are coming to a courthouse near you. 
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 01, 2015, 05:35:05 pm
Like I said years ago before the word drone was mainstream, they will be the next technology storm to catch the world by surprise.

Choose your investments wisely, and naysayers that bet against technology never win  ;D
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 02, 2015, 08:56:42 am
I do not think anyone has said anything negative about drones, at least in this thread. Personally, I think they are simply fantastic little pieces of technology.

But such sophistication comes with negative potential (not saying it is a negative product overall) sometimes, and in this case there are so many <potential> negative facets that it is kind of overwhelming. Especially when coupled with the fact that we have no laws or any type of controls in place to deal with those negative parts.

Like I said, cars are a wonderful thing but they also kill 30K plus people in the US every year. And no one is trying to ban them (as far as I know) but the simple fact is that auto deaths are the result of having autos in the first place; now that we have [way cool] drones, there are going to be drone problems, and unfortunately, in the end, deaths as a direct result.

Brian

Like I said years ago before the word drone was mainstream, they will be the next technology storm to catch the world by surprise.

Choose your investments wisely, and naysayers that bet against technology never win  ;D
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 02, 2015, 04:18:55 pm
Looks like these things may be an even bigger problem than the US outbreak of Ebola (which has killed..... well, it did not kill anyone in the US but that in no reason not to panic and overreact  ;) ): http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/01/us/drone-airliner-jfk/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/01/us/drone-airliner-jfk/)

Laws, education, harsh penalties and all the oversight possible in the world will not solve this problem. There are ways to address it but they reek of George Orwell's 1984, and I suspect these remedies are coming to a drone near you.

Brian
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: gPink on August 02, 2015, 05:52:24 pm
Not entirely accurate...Dr. Martin Salia's death marks the second U.S. death from Ebola
Thomas Eric Duncan, a Liberian, was the first to die in the U.S...
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 02, 2015, 06:48:21 pm
But that was not part of the US outbreak of Ebola, that was part of the western African outbreak of Ebola: both men came to the US already infected with Ebola. I am talking about the 'US Ebola outbreak' that so many were so very concerned about.... the cases transmitted to people in  the US from those who carried it from outside the US and then died from it. I believe that number is.... zero.

Brian

Not entirely accurate...Dr. Martin Salia's death marks the second U.S. death from Ebola
Thomas Eric Duncan, a Liberian, was the first to die in the U.S...
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 02, 2015, 09:14:49 pm
hospitals in FL will soon be using drones to carry meds from one hospital roof to the other around the state (vs. car courier as they do today).  They expect cost and delivery time to go from $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and forever   to NIL

Just one in a million uses for drone technologies.  Invest wisely  ;D
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 04, 2015, 12:52:41 pm
All this really doesn't matter until some  :censored: ing moron fly's one that get's sucked into an engine of a liner either descending or ascending from an airport that causes a crash and then hundreds of people are dead.  These  :censored: ers think it's a toy and they can do what they want and fly where they want with it.  All that will change...  It's going to happen, it's just a matter of time. 
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 04, 2015, 01:09:10 pm
All this really doesn't matter until some  :censored: ing moron fly's one that get's sucked into an engine of a liner either descending or ascending from an airport that causes a crash and then hundreds of people are dead.  These  :censored: ers think it's a toy and they can do what they want and fly where they want with it.  All that will change...  It's going to happen, it's just a matter of time.

Business/medical use of drones will continue to surge. I agree 100% some retard will down a plane or something stupid.  At a bare minimum someone soon will record some high official or CEO in an "intimate moment" by the private pool or in the bedroom, I see blackmail opportunity galore with a drone and a GoPro  ;D
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Nosmo on August 04, 2015, 07:03:14 pm
It will keep on getting better.  Drone drops drugs into prison:

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/03/manci-drone-followup/31078367/ (http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/03/manci-drone-followup/31078367/)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: KevinRLi on August 05, 2015, 05:51:04 am
It's like the internet! So much good comes from everyone being connected and so much evil too!
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 05, 2015, 05:59:35 am
It will keep on getting better.  Drone drops drugs into prison:

[url]http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/03/manci-drone-followup/31078367/[/url] ([url]http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/03/manci-drone-followup/31078367/[/url])


^^^yup.  Many have said in the past "drones will never happen due to safety".

Invest wisely my friends  ;D
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 13, 2015, 07:55:18 am
Drone vs Eagle

http://youtu.be/Hr-xBtVU4lg (http://youtu.be/Hr-xBtVU4lg)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 13, 2015, 08:02:55 am
Drone vs Fire Department  (gets interesting about at 12:00)

http://youtu.be/W0yXxpoAOYQ (http://youtu.be/W0yXxpoAOYQ)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 13, 2015, 08:14:39 am
Replacement drones will certainly add to the overwhelming demand coming down the line.  I think about drones and twitch to not get out my 12 ga benelli   ;D

Invest wisely
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 10:22:51 am
Well no wonder that kid put a pistol on his drone- look at the way those folks attacked that drone!  [lighten up people, kidding here :-)]

Oh yeah, this is going to be quite the court issue, on quite a few different fronts.

Brian

Drone vs Fire Department  (gets interesting about at 12:00)

[url]http://youtu.be/W0yXxpoAOYQ[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/W0yXxpoAOYQ[/url])
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: KevinRLi on August 13, 2015, 10:25:46 am
And now you too can take a drone taxi...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/wonder/software-engineer-developing-a-taxi-drone/vi-BBlELIg (http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/wonder/software-engineer-developing-a-taxi-drone/vi-BBlELIg)

Well it's getting there.. So far can only stay aloft for 10 seconds.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 10:51:31 am
Well, if they can make it glide for 30 seconds more, that might be enough to get one away from the crowded airport....

Brian

And now you too can take a drone taxi...

[url]http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/wonder/software-engineer-developing-a-taxi-drone/vi-BBlELIg[/url] ([url]http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/wonder/software-engineer-developing-a-taxi-drone/vi-BBlELIg[/url])

Well it's getting there.. So far can only stay aloft for 10 seconds.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 13, 2015, 11:32:08 am
No airports.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 13, 2015, 02:07:58 pm
Not only is Amazon going to use them for deliveries, DHL now plans to use 'em

Add a DRONE to their pic  ;D    ;D    ;D

(http://www.jcmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/dhl-express.jpg)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 02:23:09 pm
I kinda' could use a drone for a major house project going on.... I wonder if Amazon would use a drone to deliver a drone to me? How ironical....

Drones might even add a certain safety factor to, say, using things like fireworks. You could mount them on the drone and use electrical triggers to light them and then <hopefully> drop them. Great idea, eh?  I wonder if a circular saw could be affixed accurately to a drone.... then you could make a whole bunch of cuts in the same plank, all pre- planned and accurately done. Man, I can see the uses for these things are going to be nearly limitless..... along with the need for Kevlar umbrellas for the entire population. Oh yeah, this is gonna' go somewhere, maybe even everywhere.

But seriously, these things are really pretty cool and I really would like to get one for documenting the current house work....

Brian

Not only is Amazon going to use them for deliveries, DHL now plans to use 'em

Add a DRONE to their pic  ;D    ;D    ;D

([url]http://www.jcmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/dhl-express.jpg[/url])
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 02:24:28 pm
It was probably a male drone and that Eagle did not want to let him anywhere near his female eagle.

Brian

Drone vs Eagle

[url]http://youtu.be/Hr-xBtVU4lg[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/Hr-xBtVU4lg[/url])
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 13, 2015, 02:43:46 pm
I kinda' could use a drone for a major house project going on.... I wonder if Amazon would use a drone to deliver a drone to me? How ironical....

Drones might even add a certain safety factor to, say, using things like fireworks. You could mount them on the drone and use electrical triggers to light them and then <hopefully> drop them. Great idea, eh?  I wonder if a circular saw could be affixed accurately to a drone.... then you could make a whole bunch of cuts in the same plank, all pre- planned and accurately done. Man, I can see the uses for these things are going to be nearly limitless..... along with the need for Kevlar umbrellas for the entire population. Oh yeah, this is gonna' go somewhere, maybe even everywhere.

But seriously, these things are really pretty cool and I really would like to get one for documenting the current house work....

Brian

They can be easily had, a wedding photographer friend just bought one to shoot photos from above.  He's all into it, changing out the blades to carbon fiber, etc
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 13, 2015, 02:53:15 pm
I want to figure out a way to get a drone to paint in places I can't reach.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: C14_Rider on August 13, 2015, 03:01:16 pm
... changing out the blades to carbon fiber, etc
Oh lord, not another carbon fiber blade thread...
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 03:26:39 pm
Just mount a paint gun in the place that says "Put Glock here".

Or, just leave the Glock mounted to the drone and find a painter who owns a ladder..... then threaten him with the drone.

C'mon people, this stuff is too easy- sometimes I think you are not even trying.

 ;D

Brian

I want to figure out a way to get a drone to paint in places I can't reach.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 03:28:20 pm
I wonder what kind of oil drones use....

Brian

Oh lord, not another carbon fiber blade thread...
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 03:31:07 pm
I am just looking for a fairly inexpensive model, not anything like a professional photographer would use. I am not sure but I assume drones are sold by the caliber? If so, I think I want, oh, maybe a .32 auto drone or perhaps a .380 auto, or maybe even a 38 Special if they are not too much. I really do not have any need for the .45 ACP grade drone. And of course a .50 BMG is totally out of my price range.

Brian

They can be easily had, a wedding photographer friend just bought one to shoot photos from above.  He's all into it, changing out the blades to carbon fiber, etc
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 13, 2015, 04:02:31 pm
I am just looking for a fairly inexpensive model, not anything like a professional photographer would use. I am not sure but I assume drones are sold by the caliber? If so, I think I want, oh, maybe a .32 auto drone or perhaps a .380 auto, or maybe even a 38 Special if they are not too much. I really do not have any need for the .45 ACP grade drone. And of course a .50 BMG is totally out of my price range.

Brian

If we're talking caliber, I want the 16" naval gun from the battleship Missouri drone I can strap myself into to use as a magic carpet.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 13, 2015, 04:46:46 pm
I am just looking for a fairly inexpensive model, not anything like a professional photographer would use. I am not sure but I assume drones are sold by the caliber? If so, I think I want, oh, maybe a .32 auto drone or perhaps a .380 auto, or maybe even a 38 Special if they are not too much. I really do not have any need for the .45 ACP grade drone. And of course a .50 BMG is totally out of my price range.

Brian



http://www.amazon.com/Blade-QuadCopter-Battery-Crash-BLH7600/dp/B00RC7H80E/ref=pd_sim_21_11?ie=UTF8&refRID=09S1W338CS090XS2N4CF (http://www.amazon.com/Blade-QuadCopter-Battery-Crash-BLH7600/dp/B00RC7H80E/ref=pd_sim_21_11?ie=UTF8&refRID=09S1W338CS090XS2N4CF)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 13, 2015, 05:07:07 pm
Thanks for the link.

Does not look like that model has a camera. Also, it seems to be an indoor device, not sure it would work in even mild outdoor conditions. I am looking for something I can fly above and around my house for photographing or better yet, video. Also, more airborne endurance would be great although I realize that opens the whole size / price can of worms. But it would be great to video a whole series of roof trusses being erected (do I even need to say it? !!). Of course anything that could stay aloft for a hour or more is going to be prohibitively expensive.

I guess the basic question I would have would be what is a reasonable price for an outdoor, video carrying drove that has at least 8- 10 minutes of flight duration. Going to a point in 3D space and hovering there facing a particular direction would also be outstanding so photographs / video could be repeatedly taken from the same location but again, I realize that that might get expensive.

Brian


[url]http://www.amazon.com/Blade-QuadCopter-Battery-Crash-BLH7600/dp/B00RC7H80E/ref=pd_sim_21_11?ie=UTF8&refRID=09S1W338CS090XS2N4CF[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Blade-QuadCopter-Battery-Crash-BLH7600/dp/B00RC7H80E/ref=pd_sim_21_11?ie=UTF8&refRID=09S1W338CS090XS2N4CF[/url])
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: gPink on August 13, 2015, 05:56:08 pm
Sounds like you need to tether a balloon with a camera.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 14, 2015, 04:15:16 am
You'd have to tether it from several points to keep it in one place.  And of course it would need a smiley face on it.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Walker18 on August 15, 2015, 06:32:55 am
Them sumabitch's are hard to kill..

(a little Language, and booty)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StxbkWLLTMI&feature=player_embedded&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DStxbkWLLTMI%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&has_verified=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StxbkWLLTMI&feature=player_embedded&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DStxbkWLLTMI%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&has_verified=1)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 15, 2015, 12:15:46 pm
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rembrant on August 16, 2015, 06:23:11 am
But it would be great to video a whole series of roof trusses being erected (do I even need to say it? !!). Of course anything that could stay aloft for a hour or more is going to be prohibitively expensive.


Did Donald Trump visit Rhode Island yet? Maybe he'd take you for a helicopter ride?...lol. ;D

What the heck happened to your roof?

Rem

Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rembrant on August 16, 2015, 06:56:27 am
That'll fix your drone...lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWEn4q900s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWEn4q900s)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 17, 2015, 01:43:49 pm
OFFTOPIC:

Well, my roof is broken. Sort of like a vacuum cleaner or perhaps even a car: "I tried to vacuum up all this dust but the vacuum cleaner is broken." Or, "I cannot come to work today because my car is broken." So that is sort of what is going on with my house- "I would like to live in my house but I cannot because the roof is broken."

 ;) ;D ;D with a little   :o ::) :'( :'( mixed in.

Last winter's snow structurally overloaded the roof so.... I need a new roof. But then the Ginsu part of the commercial kicks in and someone says "But wait....! The roof cannot be replaced as it is and meet code (old house). So we're gonna' need some new walls and floors too. So to cut to the chase, the second story of the house needs a new second story. Insurance company investigated and said it was a 'covered peril' and they would pay for the cost of repairs. Then they found out what repairs would cost and changed their mind. I rather agree with the first decision but that will have to be ironed out at a later time 'cause right now I need a new structure stuck on the house before snow flies. Other than a pi$$ pot full of time and money, not to mention the tremendous money and time it will take, this is a relatively easy task that can be done in three simple steps: 1) Remove second floor and place in dumpsters (estimate 4- 5, 30 yard size). 2) Design, model, certify new second floor and install. 3) Pick paint colors for new rooms upstairs! No problem! Almost exactly like a CC 50: 1) Go to one coast and get receipt. 2) Go to middle of country. 3) Go to other coast and get receipt. Three easy steps and all done.

It took the Jewish people a long time but they have the perfect expression for this one..... Oy vey!   ;D

But let's look at the bright side: I may be able to use a drone (or a group of drones, whatever that is called- a 'pod'? a 'herd'?) instead of a crane to lift the headers and trusses in place. How fun would that be, huh? Of course it will have to be a pretty big drone; probably need to be plugged in rather than powered by batteries.

Brian

Did Donald Trump visit Rhode Island yet? Maybe he'd take you for a helicopter ride?...lol. ;D

What the heck happened to your roof?

Rem
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rembrant on August 17, 2015, 01:51:18 pm
this is a relatively easy task that can be done in three simple steps: 1) Remove second floor and place in dumpsters (estimate 4- 5, 30 yard size). 2) Design, model, certify new second floor and install. 3) Pick paint colors for new rooms upstairs! No problem! Almost exactly like a CC 50: 1) Go to one coast and get receipt. 2) Go to middle of country. 3) Go to other coast and get receipt. Three easy steps and all done.

Don't forget to leave an opening in the new 2nd floor for the old staircase...lol.

Sorry to hear Brian...although you're obviously still in good spirits, it doesn't sound like much fun.

Hey, can't you chop up all that old house and burn it in the woodstove?...Just pick the nails out of the ashes later...no big deal...lol.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Conniesaki on August 17, 2015, 02:26:07 pm
BDF - It's my understanding that repairs that return a structure to its previous condition are acceptable / permissible, and that only changes (upgrades, expansion, etc) require new design / engineering.

Do you know why this doesn't seem to apply in your case?

Seems like you might need to file a lawsuit against the insurance company, to jog their memory of how things are supposed to be.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 17, 2015, 02:43:32 pm
No problem- the new height of the second floor will necessitate a new first- floor staircase so problem solved.

Oh, this has its humorous parts, it is merely black humor now. And really, this is what my oldest son would call 'A first- world problem' after all; we are not starving to death so hey- how bad can it really be? And as I think you know, it takes a lot to beat the humor out of me and this is not enough.... at least not so far (we have not actually started the process yet but have been blown off by multitudes of contractors, engineers and architects and Andrea is not taking any of this particularly well).

Most of the house is not wood, and siding, asphalt shingles, gypsum board, insulation, etc. do not burn or do not burn well. Well OK, asphalt shingles burn GREAT but they leave a lot of sand behind and the neighbors complain about the stench.... :rotflmao:  And if one throws the ashes on a crushed- stone driveway, the tires on the vehicles seem to pick out the nails sort of automatically.  ;) ;D

Brian

Don't forget to leave an opening in the new 2nd floor for the old staircase...lol.

Sorry to hear Brian...although you're obviously still in good spirits, it doesn't sound like much fun.

Hey, can't you chop up all that old house and burn it in the woodstove?...Just pick the nails out of the ashes later...no big deal...lol.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Conniesaki on August 17, 2015, 03:03:01 pm
I wonder if your insurance co has considered their liability for when the snow fall ruins the contents of the structure and the first floor of the structure itself ... caused by their own delay in covering the present damage.

You may end up with an entirely new house! And that may be cheaper in the long run.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 17, 2015, 03:17:23 pm
Because these 'repairs' are structural rather than superficial or incidental to the structure, they must meet current building code(s). An example might be that one could put new shingles on a older roof that was in good condition but did not meet current standards because the shingles are incidental to the actual structure. But one could not remove a non- compliant roof (the structural components) and replace it with the identical, new but still non- compliment roof.

A very simple analogy is: One can replace a fuse in a fuse box that does not meet current code, wired in a manner that does not meet code. But one cannot replace the fuse box with the identical fuse box because the fuse box would be considered a main part of the electrical system of the building, while the fuse was incidental to the fuse box.

The problem with this particular building goes like this: the roof is 'toast' but a new roof cannot be placed on the short (46") sidewalls because there is nothing there to tie the walls together (like joists), which brings us down to the floor. But that too is a problem because this building uses balloon construction so there is no mechanical 'shelf' to build a floor on top of. <sigh> It does look like there is a purlin near, perhaps close enough to, the original second floor floor but we will not know if that is structurally able to support a new wall and roof until the second floor is gutted and we can look at the structural components. Now this kicks open the proverbial door that may require bracing (read: new walls) all the way down to the foundation, at which point I believe the house would be a write- off. But I believe (hope?) there are sufficient structural members (Easy Boys!) to use as a starting point to build a new floor, sheet it (sub floor) and then go with conventional, modern, or 'western' building techniques from there.

All of which leads us to the joke: 'How do the Soviets deal with a disaster? They cover it up with a catastrophe'. At one point, the Soviet economy was in a shambles and heading toward failure when suddenly, they had that mishap at Chernobyl and everyone forgot about trivial things like the economy.  This last winter, I had a nasty ice dam on the front of the house which caused significant damage to the fascia, roof edge and gutter. Then I saw the roof and promptly forgot all about that silly, inconsequential ice dam damage.  ;D   Gallows humor- it has to do when that is all there is left, like cheap Scotch.

The insurance issue is completely separate now and will take its own path; I have to get a structurally sound covering on this house before it snows here and 'the wheels of justice turn slowly'. There is always the possibility for an emergency judgement but it is not likely in this case (not life threatening).

Now, all the way back to the drone thing: I think it would be cool (hey, I am old and use the old words- I believe the kids today might say it was 'the shizzle'?) to have time- lapse video of the original structure coming down and the new structure going up. To get that, I would need a drone that could orientate itself in space and return to the same spot over and over again. I am looking into it (along with I- joists, glulams, I-beams, etc.) for this upcoming project. :-)

Brian

BDF - It's my understanding that repairs that return a structure to its previous condition are acceptable / permissible, and that only changes (upgrades, expansion, etc) require new design / engineering.

Do you know why this doesn't seem to apply in your case?

Seems like you might need to file a lawsuit against the insurance company, to jog their memory of how things are supposed to be.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: leyenda30 on August 19, 2015, 07:01:14 pm
Well the government started all this armed drone crap. Now everybody wants to be cool like Obama and take out the bad guys. You view it on a tv screen so who could get hurt anything anyway...just like a video game right.

My opinion is that it is just like gun control...guns don't kill people...it's the deranged P?:ck controlling it that needs an attitude adjustment. Drone benefits far outweigh the negative but that won't stop the folks that protect us from ourselves and tax us for it.

Soap box is open.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Pilgrim on August 23, 2015, 10:59:48 am

Kentucky Man Faces up to 10 Years in Prison for Shooting Drone Trespasser

http://www.dailytech.com/Kentucky+Man+Faces+up+to+10+Years+in+Prison+for+Shooting+Drone+Trespasser/article37465.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Kentucky+Man+Faces+up+to+10+Years+in+Prison+for+Shooting+Drone+Trespasser/article37465.htm)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 23, 2015, 02:21:26 pm
He should have received a medal and if I were on the jury I wouldn't vote to convict.  This drone sh*t is getting out of control and it needs to be reigned in.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 24, 2015, 08:59:30 am
This is exactly what I was talking about. The whole privacy issue is a far more immediate and complex issue then armed drones. It's already illegal to assault someone with a deadly weapon weather it be with a drone or not. But this problem needs to be worked out. Most close neighborhoods it is illegal to discharge a firearm. So I'm not surprised he is in legal trouble. But what if he used a paint ball gun? Or a high pressure hose like the FD video did and shot it down that way? What if the guy had a major league arm and hit it with a baseball? What if it is not over your property but the camera is still looking that way? All kinds of legal precedents to be worked out.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 24, 2015, 10:02:37 am
They should all burn in He*l.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 24, 2015, 12:06:35 pm
Agreed, the privacy issue is going to be a be a problem.

As far as flying over private property, that too will be an issue because one does not own the airspace above any property that one does own; just ask any airline (they can overfly private / public property at will without permission).

At first, this might seem to be a simple issue but I believe it will be quite difficult to write effective laws that do not step all over other laws already in place.

Brian


This is exactly what I was talking about. The whole privacy issue is a far more immediate and complex issue then armed drones. It's already illegal to assault someone with a deadly weapon weather it be with a drone or not. But this problem needs to be worked out. Most close neighborhoods it is illegal to discharge a firearm. So I'm not surprised he is in legal trouble. But what if he used a paint ball gun? Or a high pressure hose like the FD video did and shot it down that way? What if the guy had a major league arm and hit it with a baseball? What if it is not over your property but the camera is still looking that way? All kinds of legal precedents to be worked out.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 24, 2015, 01:12:48 pm
Too much money behind drones. They'll win their battles whether peeping Toms employ them or not.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 24, 2015, 03:18:31 pm
They just grabbed one in MD that was going to deliver drugs to a prison near Cumberland.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/24/2-arrested-in-plot-to-use-drone-to-sneak-contraband-into-maryland-prisons/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/24/2-arrested-in-plot-to-use-drone-to-sneak-contraband-into-maryland-prisons/)

Someone on the news, associated with the prison, was talking about getting one of those radar gattling guns to shoot them out of the sky.  :thumbs: :cannon:
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 24, 2015, 03:42:29 pm
They just grabbed one in MD that was going to deliver drugs to a prison near Cumberland.

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/24/2-arrested-in-plot-to-use-drone-to-sneak-contraband-into-maryland-prisons/[/url] ([url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/24/2-arrested-in-plot-to-use-drone-to-sneak-contraband-into-maryland-prisons/[/url])

Someone on the news, associated with the prison, was talking about getting one of those radar gattling guns to shoot them out of the sky.  :thumbs: :cannon:


The more of 'em shot down, means that much more demand (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 24, 2015, 05:05:39 pm
Twit.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 24, 2015, 06:02:17 pm
And whole new social situations:

Student says to Teacher: "A drone stole my homework on the way to school!".    ;D

Brian

The more of 'em shot down, means that much more demand ([url]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif[/url])
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 25, 2015, 08:18:09 am
Or "A drone shot the dog that ate my homework"  ;D
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: fartymarty on August 25, 2015, 10:00:14 am
I think jamming technology will soon be available (at the consumer level) to disrupt these boogers. FCC illegal no doubt, but difficult to detect and once the tech is out (Pinterest, Instructables, etc.) droning will loose it's appeal. Long before drones (the new multi-blade hovering helicopter type) there was always a possibility of a radio controlled model aircraft flying into the White House loaded with who knows what. The fact that it never happened always made me think that there was probably full time Federal jamming going on in select secure areas around the country. Some of those RC aircraft are humongous (https://markosun.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/remote21.jpg?w=1000).

Now what happens when they start putting in GPS guidance in the flying boogers and they fly pre-planned routes with designated hover points with set on station times and they are in no need of ground based radio guidance....?

Then we'll need to start making 4 barreled potato gun (http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/tater_guns72756/potato_2.1.JPG)s that can shoot nets 200-300 feet in the air I guess.   
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 25, 2015, 01:13:42 pm
How about anti-drone drone? Fly above the other drone and spool out mono filament line to jam the props of the intruder drone.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 25, 2015, 02:02:39 pm
EMP rifle?
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: B.D.F. on August 25, 2015, 02:27:34 pm
Drones are already flying autonomously, that is a big part of the problem. They can and do fly pre- programmed flight paths so there is nothing to jam to stop them.

I believe the little fellas' will be regulated soon enough and almost certainly be required to have an on- board, non- disable-able flight routine that forces them to land (or not take off in the first place). Upon receipt of a specific, encrypted signal, they would simply land (not crash but actually descend under power). The signal would of course be issued by agencies of the gov't, starting with the FAA. For example, perhaps air control towers would broadcast this signal continuously, preventing drones from flying at all w/in some distance of any / all airports. It could also be used by other personnel, even individual LEO's perhaps, to force a drone to stop any illegal behavior.

The president has already been set for this as all Blu Ray players have a required 'anti- piracy' chip in them, placed there by the manufacturer and not readily removable by consumers.

This of course will not stop all drone problems but it may be a useful method to exercise some control over them. And of course there will be those who modify drones to remove such a device, as well as companies that sell the service to remove them (just like re-flashing a vehicle ECU or adding a Power Commander, then slapping a big sticker that says "For off- road use only" on it as a legal 'out').

As I already said, I think they are a great tool as well as a toy but they also come with quite a few negative aspects and uses. We will use them and try to curb the negative aspects; we will not succeed completely but we will get the damage rate down to an acceptable level. Exactly like cars: great tools that provide almost unlimited benefits to society while at the same time killing tens of thousands of people every year. We try to minimize the damage done but cannot eliminate it and the benefits are great enough that we accept the negative aspects and costs. But the fact is that going forward, drones are going to cause problems for no other reason than they exist and are being used- exactly like the car..... there were no deaths or injuries from cars before they were in common use, and once they were in common use there has never been a time when we have been able to eliminate damage caused by them. And I believe exactly like cars, there is going to be a lot of time spent regulating, controlling, limiting and generally lessening the damage they can do moving forward; we will be tinkering with these issues for years to come, perhaps forever.

Brian

I think jamming technology will soon be available (at the consumer level) to disrupt these boogers. FCC illegal no doubt, but difficult to detect and once the tech is out (Pinterest, Instructables, etc.) droning will loose it's appeal. Long before drones (the new multi-blade hovering helicopter type) there was always a possibility of a radio controlled model aircraft flying into the White House loaded with who knows what. The fact that it never happened always made me think that there was probably full time Federal jamming going on in select secure areas around the country. Some of those RC aircraft are humongous ([url]https://markosun.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/remote21.jpg?w=1000[/url]).

Now what happens when they start putting in GPS guidance in the flying boogers and they fly pre-planned routes with designated hover points with set on station times and they are in no need of ground based radio guidance....?

Then we'll need to start making 4 barreled potato gun ([url]http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/tater_guns72756/potato_2.1.JPG[/url])s that can shoot nets 200-300 feet in the air I guess.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 27, 2015, 06:24:47 am
Now cops will be buying them "full force", as I said a few years ago to the naysayers, drones are the next big thing   ;D




Taser Drones: North Dakota Cops Gain Approval From State Government

(http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/126104/police-drones.jpg?w=650)



Police drones are commonly used for surveillance, but North Dakota Police does not want drone use to stop there and has made a move to allow tasers and other "non-lethal" weapons to be equipped on its drones. (Photo : Getty Images)
Police drones in North Dakota are now allowed to arm its drones with "non-lethal" weapons such as tasers, tear gas, and guns with rubber bullets, because of the passage of House Bill 1328.

Originally, the bill focused on limiting police surveillance using aerial vehicles. In its draft, it banned law enforcement drones from arming any weapon and it required a search warrant before police could deploy a drone for hunting down criminals and evidence.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: stevewfl on August 28, 2015, 09:36:29 am
Drone killing may become big business too!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/drone-killing-laser-weapon-demoed-by-boeing-1.3207134 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/drone-killing-laser-weapon-demoed-by-boeing-1.3207134)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Classvino on August 28, 2015, 11:47:17 am
Drone killing may become big business too!

[url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/drone-killing-laser-weapon-demoed-by-boeing-1.3207134[/url] ([url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/drone-killing-laser-weapon-demoed-by-boeing-1.3207134[/url])


A little bit of miniaturization and it'd be mountable on a Connie...   :cannon:   :1DeadBanana

Jamie
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 28, 2015, 01:10:28 pm
Sign me up!
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 31, 2015, 09:33:38 am
Taken at my wife's property in NM by a drone.

http://youtu.be/_FCNKT0u8Q4 (http://youtu.be/_FCNKT0u8Q4)
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 31, 2015, 01:14:47 pm
With her permission?
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on August 31, 2015, 01:16:49 pm
With her permission?

Her sister's permission. She and her 2 sisters own it.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 31, 2015, 03:07:42 pm
Good.   There are a myriad of uses for drones, especially in SAR, as you can see on the video.  Unfortunately there are myriads of bad uses for them as well.  Kinda like the Internet...
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: gPink on August 31, 2015, 04:15:59 pm
Where was the ice cave?
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 31, 2015, 09:51:31 pm
Good.   There are a myriad of uses for drones, especially in SAR, as you can see on the video.  Unfortunately there are myriads of bad uses for them as well.  Kinda like the Internet...

donkey porn????
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 01, 2015, 04:23:25 am
 :rotflmao: Twit.
Title: Re: A very interesting use for a drone
Post by: Rhino on September 01, 2015, 08:49:54 am
Where was the ice cave?

NM, south on Hwy 53 from Grants, NM about 30 miles. About 20 miles east of El Morrow National Monument.