Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: NinjaRat on August 30, 2016, 12:08:45 pm

Title: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: NinjaRat on August 30, 2016, 12:08:45 pm
Hello all,

Been a lurker for a while, but am having a problem with my 2011 that I'm hoping to get some feedback with. Long story short, stopped for gas on the way to work and when attempting to start the bike it acted as if the battery was dead (thumbing the starter cause the instrument panel to dim and throw various errors about FI, Immobilizer and KTRC…unfortunately I noticed no error code #). It's done this before, but usually switching it off and waiting a second or two it would fire up normally. No go this time and progressively got worse the more times I retried; I believe that at this point I was just draining the battery. Eventually I got a tow and the bike is now sitting in my garage on the trickle charger.

Since I’ve had it home, the behavior has changed a bit. When it was first fully charged the dash would light up normally (both left red and oil light, dials would spin, etc), but once I hit the ignition switch I’d get nothing but a rapid clicking noise coming from the tank area and an alternating errors on the display: KTRC and K-ACT ABS error.

Strangely, since getting the battery tested (it’s good) the bike is now acting differently. Now when I turn it on the display takes a moment before illuminating and pressing the starter I hear a click and the dash goes dark with only the oil light faintly illuminated (along with Neutral). Turning off the key nob and back on repeats the same behavior.

For the record, the bike is a 2011 with  22k some odd miles (I bought two years ago in Nov with under 7000 miles) . I installed a new battery in January, and just had it load tested resulting in a healthy status. Also, all fuses appear to be intact and functional. Lastly, I performed a diode test on the Voltage Regulator/rectifier having had bad experience with failure on my last bike, a Triumph Sprint ST, but it appears sound.

Any suggestions on what might be the problem or next steps I should take in troubleshooting?  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 30, 2016, 01:19:30 pm
I guess it's just mostly dead, then.  Not totally dead.   Go over every battery cable connection you can find.  Clean them with a brass brush or whatever you use.  Just because it looks clean doesn't mean it is.  What battery did you install in January?  You could still have a bad battery BTW.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: jimmymac on August 30, 2016, 01:28:58 pm
Epic!  I get your battery is good. But it's not.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conrad on August 30, 2016, 02:47:32 pm
After you turn on the ignition but before you try to start it can you cycle through the dash displays and get to the voltmeter? What's it reading before you try to start the bike? After? 

Do what Jim said as well.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on August 30, 2016, 03:42:16 pm
We have seen this over and over again.  I would guess 90% of the time it is either a bad connection to ground or battery, or the battery is defective.   Double check the cleaning of all the connections on the battery and frame grounds first.

Unless you are using a trickle charger regularly, a 5+ year-old battery you should just probably replace anyway.... especially if it has EVER accidentally been drained to very low or dead state before.

Of course it COULD be something else... but start with the 90%.

Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 30, 2016, 04:53:11 pm
He did say he replaced it in Jan of this year and it checked good, but still that's no indication of a good battery.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on August 30, 2016, 05:08:20 pm
He did say he replaced it in Jan of this year and it checked good, but still that's no indication of a good battery.

Sorry, I did miss that part, but yes.... even a fairly new battery can fail.  In his case, probably look more at the connections than the battery.... especially those frame grounds.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: kwakrider on August 31, 2016, 02:15:49 am
Epic!  I get your battery is good. But it's not.

+1. Mine did the exact same thing, swapped out the battery and been all good for the last 4 years! Agree with the other posts too...check the earth connections properly. Best of luck!  :)
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: NinjaRat on August 31, 2016, 07:09:51 am
Thanks for the replies! And apparently good advice...

Thank you, when I meant 'tested' I meant I took it to the local Autozone and had them run a what I presume is a load test. I'm guessing this is not the end all be all of verifying the battery is good?

In any event, last night once the battery was showing fully charged I removed the charger and checked the voltage and it was showing 13.13v...this morning it read 12.87v. I also took the advice of cleaning the connection points, using some Emory paper I removed the bit of corrosion on the negative terminal, the terminals themselves, and scuffed up the two ground connections (and the mounting area).  And guess what...She fired up this morning!

I'l be damned, I've never had something act so dead over a little bit of corrosion or oxidation, but I suppose you can learn something new every day!

Still need to reattach my powerlet adapter leads and maybe my Garmin (though I use that less frequently these days), so will monitor and periodically start and run the bike before taking any trips.

Thank you all for the clue! 


Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: gPink on August 31, 2016, 07:19:41 am
 :thumbs:
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conrad on August 31, 2016, 11:47:57 am
Thanks for the replies! And apparently good advice...

Thank you, when I meant 'tested' I meant I took it to the local Autozone and had them run a what I presume is a load test. I'm guessing this is not the end all be all of verifying the battery is good?

In any event, last night once the battery was showing fully charged I removed the charger and checked the voltage and it was showing 13.13v...this morning it read 12.87v. I also took the advice of cleaning the connection points, using some Emory paper I removed the bit of corrosion on the negative terminal, the terminals themselves, and scuffed up the two ground connections (and the mounting area).  And guess what...She fired up this morning!

I'l be damned, I've never had something act so dead over a little bit of corrosion or oxidation, but I suppose you can learn something new every day!

Still need to reattach my powerlet adapter leads and maybe my Garmin (though I use that less frequently these days), so will monitor and periodically start and run the bike before taking any trips.

Thank you all for the clue!

The bill will arrive shortly, please be prompt with the payments.    ;)

I would suggest using a good quality, plastic safe, contact cleaner to coat the contact points that you just cleaned up.

This contact cleaner is the best available, IMO.

https://smile.amazon.com/Booster-Electric-Connection-Enhancer-Lubricant/dp/B0002BBVN2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472665579&sr=8-2&keywords=cramolin

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81AYrURzAFL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conniesaki on August 31, 2016, 12:23:54 pm
Thank you, when I meant 'tested' I meant I took it to the local Autozone and had them run a what I presume is a load test. I'm guessing this is not the end all be all of verifying the battery is good?

It is definitely not.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on August 31, 2016, 09:26:52 pm
Of course it COULD be something else... but start with the 90%.

I also took the advice of cleaning the connection points, [] And guess what...She fired up this morning!

Another to add to the collection!
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: PlaynInPeoria on September 06, 2016, 01:04:45 pm
Here's a data point on batteries, just one bit of info on battery longevity.   I'm not asking for advice and if you gave it to me, I'm not smart enough to take it.

1) I have a 2012 I got in Jan 2013, it just turned over 48,000 miles a month ago.

2) I am an idiot.

3) I have walked away from my bike with the key on more times than I can count.  That resulted in jumping it and yes, bump starting it (by myself sometimes, not as much fun as it sounds).  I would say that I have easily done this 6x.

4) I have also had the positive battery terminal come loose a couple times, resulting in a no start scenario. I have my heated gear and HID power from there, so it's a problem spot.

5) I run a trickle charger on it during the winter.

6) This may be neither here nor there, but I run the heated gear a fair amount as needed (when below 50F and the ride is more than 30 minutes).

My battery still works.  It wouldn't hurt to throw another one in there, I suppose.   I am hoping to be less stupid in the future, but I don't have high hopes.

Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 06, 2016, 05:10:21 pm
 :thumbs: :rotflmao:   I think we've all done things like that.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: TallyRex on September 12, 2016, 05:30:28 pm



 so will monitor and periodically start and run the bike before taking any trips.



No, buy a battery tender
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on September 13, 2016, 12:15:25 am
No, buy a battery tender

+1

Cheap and easy battery insurance.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: steveb19 on November 17, 2018, 01:02:12 pm
Ive had a similar problem today. Changed fob batteries just in case but still dead. Ill look at battery tomorrow ,hooe it is something so simple!
quote author=NinjaRat link=topic=21720.msg269867#msg269867 date=1472580525]
Hello all,

Been a lurker for a while, but am having a problem with my 2011 that I'm hoping to get some feedback with. Long story short, stopped for gas on the way to work and when attempting to start the bike it acted as if the battery was dead (thumbing the starter cause the instrument panel to dim and throw various errors about FI, Immobilizer and KTRC…unfortunately I noticed no error code #). It's done this before, but usually switching it off and waiting a second or two it would fire up normally. No go this time and progressively got worse the more times I retried; I believe that at this point I was just draining the battery. Eventually I got a tow and the bike is now sitting in my garage on the trickle charger.

Since I’ve had it home, the behavior has changed a bit. When it was first fully charged the dash would light up normally (both left red and oil light, dials would spin, etc), but once I hit the ignition switch I’d get nothing but a rapid clicking noise coming from the tank area and an alternating errors on the display: KTRC and K-ACT ABS error.

Strangely, since getting the battery tested (it’s good) the bike is now acting differently. Now when I turn it on the display takes a moment before illuminating and pressing the starter I hear a click and the dash goes dark with only the oil light faintly illuminated (along with Neutral). Turning off the key nob and back on repeats the same behavior.

For the record, the bike is a 2011 with  22k some odd miles (I bought two years ago in Nov with under 7000 miles) . I installed a new battery in January, and just had it load tested resulting in a healthy status. Also, all fuses appear to be intact and functional. Lastly, I performed a diode test on the Voltage Regulator/rectifier having had bad experience with failure on my last bike, a Triumph Sprint ST, but it appears sound.

Any suggestions on what might be the problem or next steps I should take in troubleshooting?  Thanks in advance!
[/quote]
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 17, 2018, 01:56:12 pm
During all of the "testing" outlined above, and the charging, was the battery actually taken out of the bike?

Biggest question, did you disconnect, and abrasively clean every cable connector, including the grounding points on the frame, and the actual battery terminal where the connection is made?

By abrasively clean, I mean actually scrub them all till shiney, using some sandpaper, and wipe them ALL off..?

I constantly hear "they are clean", "They looked clean", "they were tight", etc., when unless those steps were actually done, in fact they are not "clean".
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on November 17, 2018, 03:39:37 pm
 :goodpost:

What he is describing is almost "text book" perfect power connection issues we have seen so many times on the C14.  I have experienced it myself.  Check the frame ground connections (disconnect, clean, reconnect, tighten) near the battery, clean the posts and cables on the battery and connect firmly.  Bet ya the problems just magically disappear...
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: PlaynInPeoria on November 20, 2018, 06:00:06 am
I have heard of so many ground issues.  My bike has never done that thankfully.  But it sounds like it wouldn't hurt to proactively check the grounds.  Next time I do maintenance on my bike, I'd like to clean them.  How many grounds are there and where are they?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 20, 2018, 03:42:20 pm
I have heard of so many ground issues.  My bike has never done that thankfully.  But it sounds like it wouldn't hurt to proactively check the grounds.  Next time I do maintenance on my bike, I'd like to clean them.  How many grounds are there and where are they?

Thanks

the two main points are the place the 2 ground wires attach to just in front of the battery, remove those 2 bolts, and scrub the aluminum on the frame with sandpaper, and wipe it down clean with solvent, also clean both the ring lugs on the cable ends that contact the frame, when bolted back on...same manner... the battery connection/wire lug/terminal also requires the same treatment.
(don't worry about the extra red and black wires I show in the below photo, those run to my remotely mounted aux fuse block)
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conniesaki on November 20, 2018, 03:54:51 pm
... and coat the entire connection liberally with dielectric grease to eliminate (OK, delay) corrosion.

I actually coat all of the pieces with grease before I even start assembling them, which is messy, yes, but ensures a thorough application of grease.

This post brought to you by Slippy Fingers Connie.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Poseidon on November 20, 2018, 04:53:21 pm
... and coat the entire connection liberally with dielectric grease to eliminate (OK, delay) corrosion.

I actually coat all of the pieces with grease before I even start assembling them, which is messy, yes, but ensures a thorough application of grease.

This post brought to you by Slippy Fingers Connie.

Dielectric grease can cause connection issues. It should be applied to the connection after it is tightened down. With automotive electrical connectors, it is recommended to apply to the boot in order to help seal the connection, but avoid the connections themselves. I’ve seen a lot of connection issues on ATVs when guys use too much dielectric grease on the connections when trying to water proof their bikes. Thin coating probably will not cause any problems but if you get carried away with it, it definitely can!
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on November 20, 2018, 05:14:15 pm
I agree.  "Dielectric" means that it is an insulator- it blocks conductivity of electricity.  My understanding is that it should be applied AFTER connection, to the outside, and this prevents moisture and oxygen from getting into the connection.  The corrosion caused by moisture and oxygen is what causes the connection to become unreliable over time.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 20, 2018, 06:20:51 pm
... and coat the entire connection liberally with dielectric grease to eliminate (OK, delay) corrosion.

I actually coat all of the pieces with grease before I even start assembling them, which is messy, yes, but ensures a thorough application of grease.

This post brought to you by Slippy Fingers Connie.

as the 2 prior posts note, and I have always preached on, Dielectric grease is an insulator, and subsequently should not be applied to the actual current carrying metal surfaces being clamped together... it can be used to 'seal' the connection as assembled clean and dry, when used as an external only coating, but then again anything applied, like clear spray paint, will do the same.

Having worked in the Power Quality industry for 20 years, the only thing that can be applied to the actual current carrying surfaces being clamped (like copper bus bars, and cable terminations as such) is this stuff... NO-OX-ID
https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html (https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html)

it is the industry standard, we used it for everything that was exposed to humid and corrosive environments, and it is NOT an insulator... I always suggest having a tube, in your stash, for bike work. A little lasts a lifetime.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: MtnRider on November 20, 2018, 07:52:22 pm
NO-OX-ID on Amazon, 8 oz. $15:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSW341A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1XKVJCRK1NWP1&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSW341A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1XKVJCRK1NWP1&psc=1)

Thanks, MoB.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conniesaki on November 20, 2018, 10:24:38 pm
Loctite Dielectric Grease: http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/LB%208423-EN?pid=LB%208423&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS (http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/LB%208423-EN?pid=LB%208423&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS)

Directions for use:

2. For connectors and battery terminals

Here's a test, although I can't get the vid to play within this post:

! No longer available (http://youtube.com/watch?v=G3_mj0c_-QY#)
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: maxtog on November 21, 2018, 12:54:19 am
Here's a test, although I can't get the vid to play within this post:

There is no question that many (if not most) people use it that way, but, nonetheless, dielectric grease is an insulator that inhibits or stops electrical flow.   The reason it works that way at all (coating all surfaces) is because the clamping force of the connection is typically high enough to push the grease out of the way once the connection is tightened, allowing metal-to-metal contact (and, thus, electric flow).  And in most cases, it probably does work that way.  However, I am not sure that will always work as expected.... especially if the current on that particular connection is (or was) never high.  I suppose, theoretically, if the connection wasn't tight enough to push the grease out of the way, it might not have been good enough to allow electric flow in the first place.  So the questions are: can one count on that force to work, and work great over time, and work well at all currents, and does the possibility of current inhibition outweigh the positive of having an even better seal against corrosion?  Hmm...
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conniesaki on November 21, 2018, 02:19:38 am
...  So the questions are: can one count on that force to work, and work great over time, and work well at all currents, and does the possibility of current inhibition outweigh the positive of having an even better seal against corrosion?  Hmm...

Well, Loctite didn't put their directions in this order:

3. Reassemble.
4. Coat both parts with grease.

 :)


If the connection loosens, is air more likely to conduct electricity than grease? Nah. Probably about the same: Nil.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: bob h on November 21, 2018, 06:40:39 am
The sequence of operations in the Loctite instructions is the best way to insure all surfaces are coated with dielectric grease. There are no solids in the stuff, it's just pushed out of all the spots where the two surfaces actually touch.

I suspect many confuse dielectric grease with heat sink grease.  Many formulations of heat sink grease have insulating solids in it, and will prevent good electrical contact.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: jwh20 on November 21, 2018, 09:20:01 am
The sequence of operations in the Loctite instructions is the best way to insure all surfaces are coated with dielectric grease. There are no solids in the stuff, it's just pushed out of all the spots where the two surfaces actually touch.

I suspect many confuse dielectric grease with heat sink grease.  Heat sink grease does have insulating solids in it, and will prevent good electrical contact.

Good point about dielectric grease and it's purpose.  Some confused individuals have the mistaken belief that because it's "dielectric" (i.e. an insulator) that it's not suitable for battery connections.  In fact this indicates that those people have a misunderstanding about how electrical connections work and what happens to dielectric grease when used between conductors as suggested in this thread.

1) The grease itself is not conductive and therefore it does not enhance the electrical connectivity of the junction directly.
2) The mating surfaces of the terminals, while appearing to be smooth, are anything but from a microscopic viewpoint so in reality only the highest points of the "landscape" actually touch.
3) The "valleys" where nothing touches are the areas of concern since these often allow contaminants to enter and corrosion to build up.  As with so many materials, an oxide or sulfate of the base material (in this case copper and/or lead) is many times larger than the material itself and so the oxidation can actually generate enough force as it forms to push the contacting points apart and allow even more non-conducting corrosion to form.
4) The dielectric grease fills these "valleys" or voids and inhibits the formation of corrosion both between the two surfaces and around the edges so that the contacting points are much more stable over time.

So, in spite of "common" sense (which is anything but common in my experience), which says that putting a non-conductive coating on electrical connections is a bad thing, in fact, it's a good thing and creates a better and more reliable connection.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: jimmymac on November 21, 2018, 10:03:10 am
Good point about dielectric grease and it's purpose.  Some confused individuals have the mistaken belief that because it's "dielectric" (i.e. an insulator) that it's not suitable for battery connections.  In fact this indicates that those people have a misunderstanding about how electrical connections work and what happens to dielectric grease when used between conductors as suggested in this thread.

1) The grease itself is not conductive and therefore it does not enhance the electrical connectivity of the junction directly.
2) The mating surfaces of the terminals, while appearing to be smooth, are anything but from a microscopic viewpoint so in reality only the highest points of the "landscape" actually touch.
3) The "valleys" where nothing touches are the areas of concern since these often allow contaminants to enter and corrosion to build up.  As with so many materials, an oxide or sulfate of the base material (in this case copper and/or lead) is many times larger than the material itself and so the oxidation can actually generate enough force as it forms to push the contacting points apart and allow even more non-conducting corrosion to form.
4) The dielectric grease fills these "valleys" or voids and inhibits the formation of corrosion both between the two surfaces and around the edges so that the contacting points are much more stable over time.

So, in spite of "common" sense (which is anything but common in my experience), which says that putting a non-conductive coating on electrical connections is a bad thing, in fact, it's a good thing and creates a better and more reliable connection.
Good read. Easy as pie.
Your post count is 314.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 21, 2018, 11:09:05 am
Loctite Dielectric Grease: [url]http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/LB%208423-EN?pid=LB%208423&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS[/url] ([url]http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/LB%208423-EN?pid=LB%208423&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS[/url])

Directions for use:

2. For connectors and battery terminals
  • Make sure ignition system is off.
  • Clean surfaces with appropriate cleaner such as Loctite® Pro Strength Parts Cleaner or Loctite® Battery Cleaner.
  • Coat both parts with grease.
  • Reassemble.
Here's a test, although I can't get the vid to play within this post:

! No longer available ([url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=G3_mj0c_-QY#[/url])



Plays for me when I click on the link.  Using Chrome?
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: PlaynInPeoria on November 21, 2018, 11:26:04 am
the two main points are the place the 2 ground wires attach to just in front of the battery, remove those 2 bolts, and scrub the aluminum on the frame with sandpaper, and wipe it down clean with solvent, also clean both the ring lugs on the cable ends that contact the frame, when bolted back on...same manner... the battery connection/wire lug/terminal also requires the same treatment.
(don't worry about the extra red and black wires I show in the below photo, those run to my remotely mounted aux fuse block)

Ahh, thanks, these places I know of.  My fear is that there were others that I was missing.

Thank you, MOB

Side note: I think I have 2 additional connector on the positive side, my heated gear/battery tender and power to a relay that runs my dual horns.   I had 3 at one point when I was powering my HID, long since removed since I went to LED.  There is not much room to work behind that battery cover.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conniesaki on November 21, 2018, 11:42:31 am

Plays for me when I click on the link.  Using Chrome?

Chrome and Firefox. I can click the link fine, but don't see the actual video appearing my post as I see sometimes.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 21, 2018, 11:45:01 am
Chrome has issues with this site as far as vids go.
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 21, 2018, 02:04:22 pm
I suppose if you want to believe what LocTite says, in order to sell a product it makes, for a purpose that it truly misrepresents the real benefit, that's fine with me.
from the Loctite data sheet;
"LOCTITE®
LB 8423 is a silicone dielectric compound that
facilitates and improves tune-ups. The compound prevents
voltage leakage around any electrical connector thereby
insuring a strong spark in high energy ignition systems. It is
also an excellent lubricant on rubber, plastic and ceramic
surfaces, and it also has good high temperature properties,
thus preventing fusing of spark plug boots to the spark plug
itself. Typical applications include spark plug boots, distributor
cap nipples,
battery terminals, ignition coil connectors, and
trailer electrical connectors. This product is typically used in
applications with an operating range of -55 °C to 204 °C."

TYPICAL PROPERTIES OF CURED MATERIAL
Electrical Properties:
Dielectric Breakdown Strength,
IEC 60243-1,       kV/mm                   19.8
Dielectric Constant / Dissipation Factor, IEC 60250:   1kHz 3.0 / 0.007
Volume Resistivity, IEC 60093, Ω·cm 2.6×1015

it does not carry current, it is a strongly resistive coating. 

they add battery terminals just to increase sales....



As I noted, having worked decades in power quality products, that carry current up to and over 4000 amps, and MUST be reliable to not fail, due to a connection that has been compromised which could bring down infrastructure of major cities, utilities, or government security, I suggest you actually read about the product I linked to....

https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html (https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html)

if they were simply into only selling a product, they would have done what LocTite did...
which is to name 2 other products they sell, to clean the contact surfaces prior to making the connection... but as an industry provider they don't... because they know how to make a reliable connection... and explain it with the step LocTite seems to have forgotten, the part about the cleaning... and the correct means of cleaning....

from the SanChem site....

How to Apply Conductive Grease to Battery Terminals:

*Disconnect the connector from the terminal. When taking the battery out first disconnect the negative terminal (-), then disconnect the positive (+).
*Degrease the terminal post.
*Neutralize the area – this is normally done with baking soda & water (1 lb/ 1 gal.)
*Use a toothpick size steel wire brush to buff the face of the terminal post until the face is bright lead.
*Next, apply a light coating of NO-OX-ID A-Special to all four faces of the terminal post.
*Reattach the cables to the battery. When reattaching the battery, first connect the positive (+) connection then reattach the negative terminal (-).

use whatever you want, in any manner you want to use it in....  use Vaseline, it probably works as good, when applied like that LocTite product, for what that's worth.

I do know about reliable electrical connections tho, and prevention of degradation to them. I wish I could show you I.R. scans of various connections, carrying high amp loads, on products I designed, it would be clear then. Loose bolts, greased connections, etc., Funny part is, I just last month signed off on a patent for a system of I.R. ports I designed;(windows applied to the external walls of large switchgear enclosures) to allow safe scanning of internal bolted bus bar current carrying connections to see if they are 'getting hot' due to compromised clamping forces on bolts over time, from thermal cycling.
Even tho I haven't slept at a Holiday Inn Express for a while, I do know the difference between Dielectric and Electrically Conductive greases. (not to be confused with thermally conductive pastes)...

below shows the "low end" of the ampacity range in current products, based on my designs as Sr. Mech Product Engineer, prior to ABB's recent aquisition of the company I worked for. The larger products, like 4000amp/3 source units I designed, were quite large, 7ft hi x 6 ft dp x 16 ft long... containing about 3/4 ton of copper bus bars, and at least six 350 lb. circuit breakers/molded case switches.  :rotflmao:

loks like this inside...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSz6ulQdAphAcxvf_QaijSBadQAH3SBDty0zO2xqtsitlwdjBHozQ)

I designed all of the enclosures, and every mechanical aspect of the components and installation of such, in every one of the products in this brochure;
https://tinyurl.com/y8nwlhux (https://tinyurl.com/y8nwlhux)

Loved my job.


https://youtu.be/rZsk_nKJjks (https://youtu.be/rZsk_nKJjks)
http://youtu.be/rZsk_nKJjks (http://youtu.be/rZsk_nKJjks)
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Poseidon on November 21, 2018, 04:46:17 pm
Well, Loctite didn't put their directions in this order:

3. Reassemble.
4. Coat both parts with grease.

 :)


If the connection loosens, is air more likely to conduct electricity than grease? Nah. Probably about the same: Nil.

Like I had said before, a thin coating probably won’t be an issue, especially like on a battery terminal with a tight connection. It will cause an issue if you use to much on a weather pack connector or similar plug. That is where the ATV and SxS guys always run into problems with dielectric grease. Too much grease and you will drop connections on these. Seen it many times!

(https://www.weatherpack.com/images/b-connectors.jpg)
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conniesaki on November 22, 2018, 10:20:03 pm
I suppose if you want to believe what LocTite says, in order to sell a product it makes, for a purpose that it truly misrepresents the real benefit ...

I'd suggest you convey this information to Loctite and get them to correct their directions. I would do it myself, but I don't have your credentials and so likely wouldn't be taken seriously.

Let us know how it goes!  :thumbs: :chugbeer:
Title: Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
Post by: Conrad on November 23, 2018, 04:59:34 am
I'd suggest you convey this information to Loctite and get them to correct their directions. I would do it myself, but I don't have your credentials and so likely wouldn't be taken seriously.

Let us know how it goes!  :thumbs: :chugbeer:

 :popcorn: