Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: mellow yellow on March 18, 2019, 09:45:27 am

Title: petcock leaking again
Post by: mellow yellow on March 18, 2019, 09:45:27 am
Hello all, Don't know if anyone has experienced this also. But my petcock is leaking again even though I rebuilt it 2 yrs. ago. when I stop riding it during the winter time, I leave it on the side stand since I have a bad back and can't get it on the center stand anymore. the only other option would be to empty the tank prior to hibernating the bike for the winter. but this might cause rusting to the interior of the tank. can anyone suggest any other tips? Thanks
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: DC Concours on March 18, 2019, 10:01:44 am
many times these rebuilds don't hold. you should replace the petcock as this is the first line of defense against a hydrolock and fire.

you can also just empty the tank and coat the tank with some oil for storage. that will help stop rust.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: sport rider on March 18, 2019, 12:29:59 pm
a lot depends on the condition of the petcock.  I just tried rebuilding an old one and found that due to the age and corrosion on the metal, even rebuilding it was not a solution.  it still leaked.  I took it apart and re-built a couple times and still no luck.  I'm going with a new one.

Murph sells a replacement, or you could source your own.

https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=140&osCsid=dC7Lk5UMb74sA6aQPF3pc2 (https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=140&osCsid=dC7Lk5UMb74sA6aQPF3pc2)
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: mellow yellow on March 18, 2019, 08:06:51 pm
thanks for the responses. I purchased a rebuild kit from Murph's earlier before posting. will give it one more go. if it still leaks, will purchase a new one.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: route66tc on March 19, 2019, 07:20:08 am
thanks for the responses. I purchased a rebuild kit from Murph's earlier before posting. will give it one more go. if it still leaks, will purchase a new one.
It has been mentioned before that you might want to stretch the spring out a bit to aid in closing the valve.  You might also get a brass brush for a dremel and polish the port to aid in sealing.  I replaced my petcock with oem last year.  Didn't want to burn money buying rebuild kits with a good possibility of failure.  HTH
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: mellow yellow on March 25, 2019, 08:40:52 am
I rebuilt the petcock yesterday and started bike up. no leaks. my other question is, if there was a hydrolock situation wouldn't the bike not run? Thanks
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on March 26, 2019, 05:50:43 am
If it had hydolocked the second you hit the starter you would know it.

Go to the local small engine shop. Get a Briggs and Stratton inline shutoff valve. They are usually displayed on a big piece of cardboard with about ten of them on it. About 6 bux.
Use that and never worry about hydrolock.
I have been using them for years.
Its a cheap, easy fix.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: sport rider on March 26, 2019, 07:58:55 am
congrats on the rebuild!  my new one arrived from Murph's and I installed it last night.  no more leaks for me either!  :)
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Daytona_Mike on March 26, 2019, 08:24:20 am
If it had hydolocked the second you hit the starter you would know it.

Go to the local small engine shop. Get a Briggs and Stratton inline shutoff valve. They are usually displayed on a big piece of cardboard with about ten of them on it. About 6 bux.
Use that and never worry about hydrolock.

Sometimes you know... other times you dont.

Many people have hydrolocked and dont even know it.  This is why we suggest doing a hydrolock test before buying a C10 just because there are many still running with a small   bend in the rod. Those engines  can go at any time.. it a ticking time bomb. Yours maybe one of them. Next time you change or remove the plugs do a test. It is easy to do.

A manual shut off cannot prevent hydrolock. As a matter of fact we have had quite a few  hydrolocked engines reported using manual petcocks  and one immediately   after installing a manual petcock. Mine hydrolocked with a band new  OEM petcock.

Only one thing can prevent hydrolock.  Overflow tubes.  That is  the ONLY and correct way to prevent hydrolock

Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on March 26, 2019, 08:49:11 am
Now...if the fuel is shut off how do the carbs over flow? There is no fuel flow.
I guess peacocks al and shutoff valves aren't needed.
If the engine turns over and starts it didn't hydrology. Key word...LOCKED..
It ALMOST locked but didn't. Still bent the rod but didn't lock.
Mine actually locked with a big "clank". It did slightly bend a rod. Ran fine after that but was just a bit out of balance.
The real fix is carbs that don't go tango uniform. These carbs don't have replaceable seats.
Never had a lick of problems with Dellortos. And rarely turn off the fuel.
Brand new peacock? It was defective. Didn't shut off.
Flame away.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Daytona_Mike on March 26, 2019, 08:55:46 am
Now...if the fuel is shut off how do the carbs over flow? There is no fuel flow.
I already told you that mine hydrolocked with a brand new OEM petcock.  ( that was supposed to be a clue for you)  How can this be possible?  The answer is so very simple.
I will let you know when you got it.

FYI:  The real fix is still and will always be Overflow Tubes.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Daytona_Mike on March 26, 2019, 09:29:39 am
If the engine turns over and starts it didn't hydrology. Key word...LOCKED..
It ALMOST locked but didn't. Still bent the rod but didn't lock.
I am not sure what your trying to say. Maybe you are saying this:

The engine  turned over and bent a rod and also started  all at the same time means you hyrolocked the 'piston'.
 You do not have to stall/ lock up  the entire  engine to hydrolock a piston.( sometimes the engine will stop cranking but not all the time- this is why many do not even know they hydraulically locked a piston and bent that piston's connecting rod.)

The engine starting or not starting and/or locking or not locking  the entire engine or bending or not bending  a rod  are  not compulsory  to the   piston being hydrolocked from raw fuel in the cylinder. It is still a hydrolock event.. hopefully the result is NOT a bend rod.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 26, 2019, 12:26:23 pm
Now...if the fuel is shut off how do the carbs over flow? There is no fuel flow.
I guess peacocks al and shutoff valves aren't needed.

Flame away.


well, for one thing, it's not just a "single" point failure.... i.e., fuel shutoff only....
Part 2 is a float needle tip not sealing against it's seat...

So, with all 4 floatbowls completely full of fuel, and the line running up to the fuel shuttoff also full of fuel, even tho the gas is "shut off"; if #1 piton is at the correct point, and intake valve opened, and the bike is sitting on the side stand, bike leaning over at an angle AND 3 float bowls now sitting progressively higher than the lowest one... #1..
with #1 float valve needle is not sealing..... fuel WILL flow from the remaining 3 carbs, back to the lowest point, #1 bowl.... AND, seeing as the bowl "vents" are routed up and behind, well above the carbs, fuel will flow up, and into the #1 intake, until the point the 3 remaining carbs, and fuel line, have dropped below the level of the carb bore/throat... ...
I've had it happen a couple times times on one of mine...  once it locked, and when the starter was hit a second and third time, it did start... and spit rich fuel out the exhaust.... another time it just topped rotating... and did not turn over...did I bend a rod...? I dunno, never looked... but the engine DID refuse to turn over, until I removed the plugs, and cranked it to remove the fuel from the piston area.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on May 06, 2019, 12:29:01 pm
Hmmm so locked doesn't mean locked? Must be new English.

Overflow  tubes do not fix the underlying problem. The fuel spills onto the floor. Hopefully you don't turn on the light in the garage and cause an explosion. Stop the flow of fuel with a shutoff valve and guess what? No more hydrolock and no boom from spilled fuel.

The needle/seats and the petcock are poor designs. You would think Kaw would have done something to solve it.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on May 06, 2019, 05:41:32 pm
(http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/attachments/motorcycle-ownership-experiences/167310d1419471234-ktm-rc-200-experience-thread-3801066-2.jpg)
(http://cliff.hostkansas.com/images/2012/3stooges_face_palm.jpg)
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on May 07, 2019, 12:41:55 pm
So....you don't believe shutting off the fuel prevents the problem?
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on May 07, 2019, 07:03:33 pm
So....you don't believe shutting off the fuel prevents the problem?

DID YOU READ POST #12 ?

 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :nuts: :hitfan:
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 08, 2019, 06:13:11 am
Hmmm so locked doesn't mean locked? Must be new English.

Overflow  tubes do not fix the underlying problem. The fuel spills onto the floor. Hopefully you don't turn on the light in the garage and cause an explosion. Stop the flow of fuel with a shutoff valve and guess what? No more hydrolock and no boom from spilled fuel.

The needle/seats and the petcock are poor designs. You would think Kaw would have done something to solve it.


They did fix it.  It's called fuel injection....LOL.  Course you probably have other worries with that but hydrolock usually isn't one of them.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on May 09, 2019, 09:59:19 am
DID YOU READ POST #12 ?

 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :nuts: :hitfan:

Yes I did. Did you answer the question or ask another?
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on May 09, 2019, 09:59:56 am

They did fix it.  It's called fuel injection....LOL.  Course you probably have other worries with that but hydrolock usually isn't one of them.

Their fix was to replace the whole bike!
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Daytona_Mike on May 09, 2019, 11:38:03 am
There is ONLY one way to prevent hydrolock and it is NOT with any petcock or filter or fancy solenoids.
The ONLY way to prevent hydrolock is to install overflow tubes. 
Do not play around with this issue. Hydrolock is serious.  Get  over flow tubes.
 They are the simplest and best and only way to prevent hydrolock.

Overflow tubes are also the ONLY way that lets you monitor that your float valves are working.  The second a tiny piece or dirt gets in the needles or any of  the floats sticks you will know immediately and which carb it is too and then you can take immediate action to remedy the problem. ONLY over flow tubes will do that. They are not for just preventing Hydrolock.
  They can tell you why your fuel economy dropped.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on May 09, 2019, 06:39:34 pm
Yes I did. Did you answer the question or ask another?

YES, I did, and the answer was NO, it does NOT....
what part about the other 3 float bowls being full,)or even over full, if the floats are mal adjusted) and possibly draining back by gravity,  when the bike is on the SIDE stand, into the lowest carb, over flowing it if it has a bad float needle..... DIDN'T you comprehend?

I realize it might be a technical issue, and I deal with that... maybe understanding the systems at play, instead of commentary about how bad they were for decades....("Stop the flow of fuel with a shutoff valve and guess what? No more hydrolock and no boom from spilled fuel. The needle/seats and the petcock are poor designs. You would think Kaw would have done something to solve it.")  If you spent as much time in this area, as you have in the Arena...(if Arena posts were countable, you probably would outnumber me 4x on post count totals..., but they don't count...) and doing maintenance on these bikes, you might get a better feel for it.

You could even pull the fuel line off the petcock, and have a bike Hydrolok, maybe even easier and faster... when #1 carb's float needle is bad...

Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on May 13, 2019, 09:42:44 am
Hmm...no fuel going to the carbs yet the fuel will flow to the carbs.

That's a new twist on the laws of physics!
Tell me how that can happen.
Please. The overflow tubes dont stop the needle/seat from leaking. It can still flow into tbe cylinder and onto the floor waiting to be ignited.

I bet no one has removed their petcocks since they are not needed, right?
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Stasch on May 13, 2019, 10:13:02 am
Quote
Hmm...no fuel going to the carbs yet the fuel will flow to the carbs.

My $.02 (worth exactly that).  The over flow tubes only prevent fuel from flowing into a cylinder and the potential hydrolock.

I understand what was said to mean that when the bike is on its side stand, AND bowl 1 has leaky float needle, some of contents from carbs 2, 3 and 4 can make it past bowl 1's leaky float needle because fluid seeks the lowest level. 

This would raise the level of bowl 1 (this is sounding like Dr. Suess's Thing 1 and Thing 2) to the point where the excess fuel has to go somewhere - either cylinder 1 or an the overflow tube (if present). 

This could occur without additional fuel continuing into the scenario when the fuel line has been disconnected.

The risk of fuel on the floor is an eventuality with or without overflow tubes with a full fuel tank connected.

Once the cylinder and / or crankcase is full of fuel, its going to go out the airbox, just takes a little longer.

(edit for spelling)
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: jimbobob on May 13, 2019, 10:59:25 am
Stasch and MOB provided and excellent explanation. If you understand how the carb system works, what they say makes sense. With the bike level and bowls full, then being put on side stand could cause a hydrolock with no overflow tubes and no additional gas from the tank.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on May 13, 2019, 05:34:21 pm
thanks, glad you grasped the explanation, I only repeated it again, so Cholla could attempt to "grasp" it; of course, I never could defy the laws of physics, especially "gravity" (and it's direct opposite... "Levity...")   :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :goodpost:   or it's effect on liquids seeking their own 'level'...

(https://hi-static.z-dn.net/files/d45/8e445f1af66b251aa629c7d3a3a25d8a.jpg)

tilt the rack, and the level in the lowside 'amazingly rises'..... :yikes:

https://brainly.in/question/5309087

but, I'm sure if its on the net, it's true....

enjoy...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gravity_hills
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: Cholla on June 26, 2019, 01:49:50 pm
So....if you have a properly working fuel shutoff this will still happen?
Splain how fuel will still flow to the carbs. Btw, the fuel in bowls 2-3will not go to cylinder 1 because it would need to go uphill to get out of the bowls.
Now Splain how gas on the garage floor is a good thing. All it takes to blow up a boat is a teaspoon of gas.

Face it, the Honda carbs kaw used are crap. Over the years they could have used better carbs AND petcock. Known trouble spots.
Title: Re: petcock leaking again
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 26, 2019, 06:32:23 pm
So....if you have a properly working fuel shutoff this will still happen?
Splain how fuel will still flow to the carbs. Btw, the fuel in bowls 2-3will not go to cylinder 1 because it would need to go uphill to get out of the bowls.
Now Splain how gas on the garage floor is a good thing. All it takes to blow up a boat is a teaspoon of gas.

Face it, the Honda carbs kaw used are crap. Over the years they could have used better carbs AND petcock. Known trouble spots.
the fuel may already be in the carbs, vi poorly sealing float valves, to a point of "almost' a hydro event, when the bike is turned off, with a fully functioning petcock.. when the vacuum stops, the petcock (fully functioning) shuts off.. but... in the event of one, two, three, or all four float needles failing to sel prior, the levels have already exceed the capacity for the area of the carb bowls, but... once stopped, all that fuel is STILL THERE, way over the point it should have been shut off by the floats.  You don't get it.. that's fine, I've done more carbs than I care to comment on, and been paid for them.. you stand there, and pose at me, and toss out conjecture, based on your lack of actual knowledg in maintaining, and repairing issues.. then follow it up with disparaging remarks about the "design" of a carb, that is ancient, and actually when never let set, and /or maintained, really is quite reliable.. go back to the Arena, I know, it's now very bleak, and you really can't "attack" anyone there" anymore.. because.. well just because..
 if you want to take on the "expert role" go right ahead.. I'll just step back.  You answer the carb issues daily from now on..
meh..

ya can't make me bite the worm dude.. stop now.    Or, write an article and submit it to the Concourier, and "Splain it all"..  :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: