Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Ebock15 on June 14, 2019, 03:14:09 pm

Title: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Ebock15 on June 14, 2019, 03:14:09 pm
Hello. Is there anyway to convert my concours 1400 engine to chain drive?
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 14, 2019, 03:17:26 pm
Hello. Is there anyway to convert my concours 1400 engine to chain drive?

Why in the world would anyone want to do that?  The shaft drive is one of the major features of the Concours and a signature feature of a sport-touring motorcycle.  It is safer, more reliable, and requires much less maintenance and upkeep.

That aside, as far as I am aware, the answer is no.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Ebock15 on June 14, 2019, 03:34:14 pm
Wrecked bike. Wanted to do a custom buggy. Just figured the cases are the same as zx14. Just thought maybe would be pretty simple task
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 14, 2019, 03:40:14 pm
Wrecked bike. Wanted to do a custom buggy.

Oh, I guess that at least makes some sense, then :)  Frankenbike!

Quote
Just figured the cases are the same as zx14. Just thought maybe would be pretty simple task

There is a lot shared between the ZX14 and the Concours14, but there are a lot of differences, too.  I think you will find trying to convert the Concours to chain drive would be exceptionally difficult.  Even the wheelbase is significantly longer on the Concours (as you would expect in a sport tourer).
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Freddy on June 14, 2019, 05:54:06 pm
The second pic in post 22 shows the drive that comes out of the trans (right).  No way to extend the shaft and add a sprocket.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/unknown-whine-on-decel-maybe-clutchtranny-maybe-worse/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/unknown-whine-on-decel-maybe-clutchtranny-maybe-worse/)
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Ebock15 on June 14, 2019, 07:49:34 pm
Dang Ok appreciate the replies.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Poseidon on June 14, 2019, 09:16:47 pm
Anything can be done if you want to bad enough. It may not be easy, but it can be done. Check out the thread below. Granted, it is not a concours, but it is a shaft drive bike that was converted over to a belt drive. He overcame a lot of the same challenges you will have. Even if you don’t like the M109R, it is an interesting project.

https://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308618 (https://www.m109riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308618)
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 14, 2019, 10:17:31 pm
see bike
buy bike
don't know anything about bike

money spent.

ask us all.


we just go.....




(https://miro.medium.com/max/788/0*tg-jY7lUnisveQNo.jpg)

sorry, maybe it would have been wise, before spending money...


Just outta the blue, the transformation you ask about, is the cost of a perfectly running, '08 thru ''10 with like 20k miles.. rolling..

I'm sorry, but its late.   I gotta go to bed.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Ebock15 on June 15, 2019, 06:57:45 am
Ok will take a look. And i didnt buy this bike wrecked. I have had the bike for awhile. And my buddy borrowed it and some dumb non paying attention driver well you know. Anyways it was paid for so I just kept the bike from insurance. And decided maybe build a buggy. And was just thinking about the conversion
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Ebock15 on June 15, 2019, 07:04:55 am
Appreciate that m109 article. Man that is sweet and unique. I was just going to spend 3k or so on a zx14 engine kit. But the concours 14 has better torque at much lower rpm.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 15, 2019, 08:11:43 am
But the concours 14 has better torque at much lower rpm.

Indeed it does.  But there are still those who are in denial about it in some delusion it is "de-tuned" and "inferior" to the ZX-14.  It is why Kawasaki added variable valve timing in the Concours and tuned that way, exactly filling the role of a sport-tourer.

Anyway, good luck on your project if you decide to go forward with it.  Otherwise, you can probably make some good $ by tearing it down and selling off the good parts on Ebay.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: gPink on June 15, 2019, 02:29:43 pm
Why not use the shaft drive for your buggy project?
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Ebock15 on June 15, 2019, 03:36:39 pm
I already have a jackshaft. Then was going to run the chain to the independent rear suspension. Which had a big sprocket in the center.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 16, 2019, 06:34:20 am
Indeed it does.  But there are still those who are in denial about it in some delusion it is "de-tuned" and "inferior" to the ZX-14.  It is why Kawasaki added variable valve timing in the Concours and tuned that way, exactly filling the role of a sport-tourer.

Anyway, good luck on your project if you decide to go forward with it.  Otherwise, you can probably make some good $ by tearing it down and selling off the good parts on Ebay.


OMG, you said 'de-tuned'... :popcorn:
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 16, 2019, 09:48:57 am
OMG, you said 'de-tuned'... :popcorn:

I did, right after saying it is a delusion...
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Boomer on June 18, 2019, 03:22:39 am
Chances are that the Sprocket drive module from a ZX14 (not the later ZX14R) would fit as that is the same basic motor as the C14.
However, if Kawi used a different output shaft in the gearbox, then all bets are off.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: jimmymac on June 18, 2019, 07:02:17 am
Indeed it does.  But there are still those who are in denial about it in some delusion it is "de-tuned" and "inferior" to the ZX-14.  It is why Kawasaki added variable valve timing in the Concours and tuned that way, exactly filling the role of a sport-toure
Dude, I've owned both for 10 years. The Connie is down on power, everywhere throughout the RPM range, compared to the ZX14.  The last thing that bike needs is more low end grunt. Have you ever noticed what a turd the Connie is in 6th gear? Not the ZX14. It'll yank your arms off in 6th.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Rubber_Snake on June 18, 2019, 08:57:07 am
Dude, I've owned both for 10 years. The Connie is down on power, everywhere throughout the RPM range, compared to the ZX14.  The last thing that bike needs is more low end grunt. Have you ever noticed what a turd the Connie is in 6th gear? Not the ZX14. It'll yank your arms off in 6th.
Funny you mention the 6th gear turd.  I was riding with my buddy who owns a BMW RT1200 and we were both in 6th.  He had his cruise set and raises his throttle hand up off the bar, looks at me and slowly puts it back down and twists the throttle.  I instinctively twisted mine.  It was embarrassing how easily that bike just kept walking away from me.  Of course, if I had downshifted a couple of gears first, that would’ve been a whole different story...
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Conniesaki on June 18, 2019, 10:39:17 am
Dude, I've owned both for 10 years. The Connie is down on power, everywhere throughout the RPM range, compared to the ZX14.  The last thing that bike needs is more low end grunt. Have you ever noticed what a turd the Connie is in 6th gear? Not the ZX14. It'll yank your arms off in 6th.

 :rotflmao: :goodpost:

Hard to argue with a guy who has both.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 18, 2019, 02:48:11 pm
Dude, I've owned both for 10 years. The Connie is down on power, everywhere throughout the RPM range, compared to the ZX14. 

Sorry, you can believe that all you want, it is not true.  I already posted the chart a year ago clearly showing the C14 with considerable more low end torque than the ZX14, especially when a reflash corrects the mapping (which is not needed on the ZX14).  At 3Krpm AND 4KRPM, a reflashed Concours makes 40 more ftlbs than a reflashed ZX14 and it still way above that rpm, too.  That is very significant.

So it is not down everywhere, it is down in mid/high RPM range BECAUSE it was shifted to have more lower-end power.

Quote
Have you ever noticed what a turd the Connie is in 6th gear? Not the ZX14. It'll yank your arms off in 6th.

The gear ratio is considerably higher in 6th gear on the Concours.... exactly as expected.  The final gearing is different too.  You can't compare the two by gear.  In 6th, the Concours is already going about 65MPH at only 3KRPM.  Plus the Concours weighs 75 pounds more (unloaded) due to all the additional features.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 18, 2019, 02:51:44 pm
:rotflmao: :goodpost:

Hard to argue with a guy who has both.

It is VERY easy to argue when you are comparing different gear ratios.  6th gear speed on the Concours is closer to 5th gear on the ZX14.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 18, 2019, 03:49:27 pm
6th gear speed on the Concours is closer to 5th gear on the ZX14.

For those interested, I am attaching a gear ratio to speed comparison.
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 22, 2019, 08:09:21 pm
Have you ridden a ZX-14, Max?  I haven't but I would like to, same with a V-Max (pun intended... :rotflmao: )
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 22, 2019, 09:14:33 pm
Have you ridden a ZX-14, Max?

Not possible, unless the owner lowered it and also raised bars.  In any case, numbers are more objective :)
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: maxtog on June 22, 2019, 10:38:15 pm
[...]In any case, numbers are more objective :)

:)  (Flashing does little to the ZX14, although higher flow mufflers do a lot, but only at high RPM)
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: kzz1king on June 23, 2019, 11:02:01 am
I dont know about all this but I would check the valve cletamce while it is out 😁
Title: Re: Concours 1400 engine
Post by: Bergmen on July 24, 2019, 03:40:13 pm
As a point of reference the C10 engine can easily be converted to chain drive by replacing the transmission from a chain drive bike. The ZRX1200 can also be converted from chain to shaft in the same manner. I've done both. The C10 was converted using a five speed ZRX1200 transmission which basically drops in. The ZRX1200 conversion to shaft involved dropping a C10 six speed transmission (with a few minor modifications) into the ZRX cases.

The C14/ZX14 may have the same similarities, not sure.

Dan