Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: sport rider on June 17, 2019, 11:33:54 am

Title: starter won't disengage
Post by: sport rider on June 17, 2019, 11:33:54 am
I did some searches, but didn't seem to find any info to help me.

I have a new problem that came up on my last leg back from VA this weekend.  when I got home, my bike would not turn off, even with the key switched off.  specifically, the starter would continue to cycle and was trying to fire.  turn the key back on and the motor starts running again.  I had to disconnect the batter to get it to stop.  if I touch the battery leads to the battery, the starter starts cranking.  I had no problems with the bike starting all weekend.

seems like it's either the ignition switch, starter relay, or Jbox.

any troubleshooting before I dive in?
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: Rubber_Snake on June 17, 2019, 01:30:04 pm
I did some searches, but didn't seem to find any info to help me.

I have a new problem that came up on my last leg back from VA this weekend.  when I got home, my bike would not turn off, even with the key switched off.  specifically, the starter would continue to cycle and was trying to fire.  turn the key back on and the motor starts running again.  I had to disconnect the batter to get it to stop.  if I touch the battery leads to the battery, the starter starts cranking.  I had no problems with the bike starting all weekend.

seems like it's either the ignition switch, starter relay, or Jbox.
 
any troubleshooting before I dive in?
First thing I’d do is just what you did.  Come here and ask the experts (And I am NO expert).  MOB,  BDF and Maxtog are your best bets.  (Also, provide year, mileage and anything else you can imagine pertinent to your bike’s history and it’s issues) 

Second thing, while I waited for intelligent responses, I would find and disconnect the starter relay.  (Sorry, I don’t know where that’s at).  It seems to me that a stuck relay would cause the symptoms you’re describing. If disconnecting the relay stops the problem, replace it and you should be done.  (Sometimes, rapping a relay with a screwdriver handle or something similar can get it to release, but that is not the same as fixing the problem). If the starter relay is the culprit, you must replace it. 

Also, I’m not quite sure what you mean by your bike not turning off, even with the key switched off.  Do you mean that the engine kept running or that the starter kept cranking?  If the engine kept running, you might have more problems than just a stuck starter relay. 
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 17, 2019, 03:32:52 pm
I did some searches, but didn't seem to find any info to help me.

I have a new problem that came up on my last leg back from VA this weekend.  when I got home, my bike would not turn off, even with the key switched off.  specifically, the starter would continue to cycle and was trying to fire.  turn the key back on and the motor starts running again.  I had to disconnect the batter to get it to stop.  if I touch the battery leads to the battery, the starter starts cranking.  I had no problems with the bike starting all weekend.

seems like it's either the ignition switch, starter relay, or Jbox.

any troubleshooting before I dive in?

iEEEEEEEEE   ??? ???

you say 3 things that make it confusing to understand...

I'm sure you got drenched during most of that ride, I know how that weather has been...  a lot of water may have made it into a lot of places... and created some shorts...

You say when it "was running", turning the key to off, did not shut off the engine...
Then, you say it was trying to crank, and run, with the key off, and was running..... was the starter cranking when the engine was running??
Then, disconnecting the battery (shuts everything off, correct?), and when batt re-attached, and key off, it tries to start again?

hmmmmmmmm...

Did you by any chance, try using the "stop" switch on the right grip, to attempt to turn the bike off when it was running, and the key switch wasn't responding?  That would help diagnose, that switch "kills" the power to the keyswitch, and the system related to starter...

unplug the key switch from the harness, blow it out with compressed air, followed by an extreme flushing with WD-40, and blow it out again... take that switch out of the equation for now, and re-attach the battery.. if it tries to start, I would question the solenoid... being "latched". turn that "stop switch off and on a couple times to see what occurrs (the one on the right grip)..
If nothing happens, then re-install the connection of the ignition switch (with battery disconnected), and connect the battery after... cycle the key switch, if "nothing wierd happened", and see what follows...

lastly, remove the right hand switch pod, and blow it out with high pressure air also, and flush with WD-40, and follow the blow out again with air...


the list of drop down areas are:
Key switch, shorted by water, or just worn out
Stop switch grip pod shorted, and starter button also, by water.
Starter solenoid "latched", internally shorted or failed from age.
J-box malfunction, internal short, or latched relay on board...
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: sport rider on June 18, 2019, 12:00:57 pm
thanks for the replies. 

Rich...no rain over the weekend more than a few sprinkles, and that was early in the day, so moisture isn't likely the issue.

I tried the key turning off as well as the kill switch.  the motor shut down, but starter continued to crank.  when I turned the key or the switch back on, the motor came back to life, but I could also year the starter still turning.

mileage is 80k.  other than routine maintenance, water pump, seals, etc, there's nothing special done to the bike.  SISF did the carbs and we put in torque cams at about 70k. 

I figured I'd remove the tank and unplug the key switch and try, then unplug the kill switch and try.  then swap out the starter relay and then try jbox.  had not considered the starter solenoid.  will add that to the list to check.

thanks guys!!!
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: kzz1king on June 18, 2019, 12:21:22 pm
I would start with the solenoid. It is either stuck on or is getting voltage that keeps it engaged. Disconnect the wire to the starter So You can try engaging or disengaging the Illinois.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: gPink on June 18, 2019, 07:14:48 pm
I would start with the solenoid. It is either stuck on or is getting voltage that keeps it engaged. Disconnect the wire to the starter So You can try engaging or disengaging the Illinois.

If you have the secret to disengaging Illinois please share. You will be doing millions a great service.  8)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 18, 2019, 08:29:52 pm
stop.
replace the solenoid with a generic el-cheapo 12v solenoid from Autozone, and hook it up to see what happens.
I think it's solenoid related, i.e. latched..
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 18, 2019, 08:52:44 pm
I would say if you could show us how to disengage Florida you would be doing everyone a favor.


If you have the secret to disengaging Illinois please share. You will be doing millions a great service.  8)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: kzz1king on June 19, 2019, 01:31:12 am
 Spell check at its finest😁
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: sport rider on June 19, 2019, 11:07:14 am
if we're gonna disengage anything, can it be California?  just sayin.....
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 19, 2019, 11:55:40 am
California?! Then you can say goodbye to almost all modern innovations you have enjoyed since the late 70s. We would have to be having this conversation over snail mail.

Getting rid of FL won't be felt one bit. They have nothing useful. We can get our oranges from CA if need be and CA has better beaches.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 19, 2019, 03:37:25 pm
California?! Then you can say goodbye to almost all modern innovations you have enjoyed since the late 70s. We would have to be having this conversation over snail mail.

Getting rid of FL won't be felt one bit. They have nothing useful. We can get our oranges from CA if need be and CA has better beaches.

meh... LETS NOT GET THIS SHUT DOWN OVER GEOGRAPHICAL SEMANTICS...
besides, Cali will drop into the ocean soon following some big quake.... Florida, gets blown away yearly.. and is where we send our old people... we need that place... now D.C., welll we could easily do away with that place. Just kidding.. back to the subject at hand, which is his starter woes.. mmmmmkayyyy?

Oh, and up here in Ohio, we just say... "don't be a dork, or we will shut off all your fresh water...." and we mean it... hehehehehhe
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: gPink on June 19, 2019, 06:30:32 pm
It won't get shut down over a bit of fun....mmmmmkayyy?  ::)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: sport rider on June 20, 2019, 10:29:20 am
I dunno....key west for New Year's eve was one heck of an event!   :D
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: sport rider on June 20, 2019, 01:42:14 pm
been sick as a dog this week, but feeling slightly better today.  decided to spend a few minutes in the garage.  swapped out the solenoid and it's all good. 

I realized this solenoid was a new one that I had bought for my project bike and was swapping back and forth as I was troubleshooting.  Note to self...when buying one of these, get a good quality one.  IIRC, this was an ebay special.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 20, 2019, 03:19:15 pm
Good to hear it was an easy fix. Is our solenoid on the starter or elsewhere? And what ebay solenoid did you use before...was it not OEM?
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: sport rider on June 20, 2019, 03:34:52 pm
Good to hear it was an easy fix. Is our solenoid on the starter or elsewhere? And what ebay solenoid did you use before...was it not OEM?

it's located just in front of the battery under the left hand side cover.  the main power cable from the battery runs into it.  about 1.5 inches round.  has two bolt connections on top and a two-prong slide connector.

the one I bought was NOT oem.  but if you do a search, you'll find tons of options.  I didn't buy the cheapest from China, but still.....
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 20, 2019, 03:55:54 pm
Thanks for the education. Thinking back I remember seeing that when I was cleaning the batt leads. I am surprised you could find a non-OEM solenoid that fit there.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 23, 2019, 04:43:02 am
It won't get shut down over a bit of fun....mmmmmkayyy?  ::)


It might.  Depends on how funny I feel at the time.... ;)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 23, 2019, 09:45:10 am
VirginiaJim are you from/in VA or England?



It might.  Depends on how funny I feel at the time.... ;)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 23, 2019, 09:36:51 pm
VirginiaJim are you from/in VA or England?


Yes.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: Boomer on June 25, 2019, 03:49:30 am
VirginiaJim are you from/in VA or England?
Yes.

He's weird like that.  :o :nuts: :loco:  :yikes: :stirpot:
He's in VA but he's lived this side of the pond too, so I think we infected him.  8)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 25, 2019, 04:50:00 am
In a very nice way of course.  Not only lived there but was born there.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 25, 2019, 09:31:29 am
I only ask to understand "how funny he might feel at any given time". British people are funny in a different way.  :banana
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 25, 2019, 03:16:26 pm
I only ask to understand "how funny he might feel at any given time". British people are funny in a different way.  :banana

(https://media.giphy.com/media/TVupcr33Jpg7C/giphy.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/7wiHbenhFYKcg/giphy.gif)

YES... they are at that...
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: Boomer on June 28, 2019, 08:14:54 am
Sorry Jim, born of US parents, or born a Brit?

As for us being a bit funny,......
(http://www.gtr1000.com/graphics/boomerpics/Silly%20Hat.jpg)
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 28, 2019, 04:41:06 pm
Sorry Jim, born of US parents, or born a Brit?

As for us being a bit funny,......
([url]http://www.gtr1000.com/graphics/boomerpics/Silly%20Hat.jpg[/url])



YOU SIR, ARE A MAN ABOVE ALL MEN, TO POST THAT... i APPLAUD YOU.....

 :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :hail: :goodpost: :banana :banana :banana :banana :salute: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 29, 2019, 12:59:58 pm
I don't get it. Who's that in the pic? Is it Jim?
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 29, 2019, 04:49:06 pm
BOOMER
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: DC Concours on June 29, 2019, 07:12:53 pm
Younger than I thought he'd be.
Title: Re: starter won't disengage
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 30, 2019, 05:41:24 am
That picture was taken 20 years ago. 


As for myself, American father, English mother, born in Swindon at a USAF hospital that was there at the time.  Heading to England next year, hopefully.  It's been over 50 years since I set foot on English soil and smelled English air and ate English food.  It will be a very emotional time for me.


Had a lot of issues getting a US passport.  Lost my Certificate of Citizenship and all the important documents I have are copies.  The postmaster rolled her eyes when I was applying for it and basically said 'Good Luck'.  And through some good luck and a good friend I finally got it issued.  With that I also got my real id for my driver's licence as well.


As far as humour goes, I totally understand the British version and quite prefer that actually.  It can be very quick and hard to miss if you aren't listening well.