Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Jethrobolas on August 21, 2019, 06:40:29 pm

Title: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 21, 2019, 06:40:29 pm
i glanced at the speedo after letting it breathe in 5th on an open stretch of slab this afternoon. I caught the needle dropping from a couple notches over 160 after I chopped the throttle. It was still pulling strong when I backed off.
After safe arrival at the hideout, I yanked the seat and pulled the ecu out from the strap looking for evidence of tampering (flash sticker).
2012 bought used this April with under 10k miles. I don't feel it runs like its been flashed. Wont come close to power wheelie without clutch in any gear. No sticker, appears bone stock aside from battery tender connector and tires.
I understand indicated speed doesn't mean actual speed, but I was well over 155 (limiter is set at 154 on gen2, no?) as far as the bike was concerned. What gives?
oh, found the rev limiter this morning :-* This thing is FUN. Need to sell a few unused items so I can send the brain on a Florida vacation at concours boot camp for a proper attitude adjustment. Hopefully can sneak that by the financial advisor this winter.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 21, 2019, 06:51:39 pm
Just realized I posted this in the WRONG section. Im sorry, normally use my phone, not used to this computer. Not sure how i wound up posting this here.
mods please fix my foolish error!
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on August 22, 2019, 05:40:41 am
I don't feel it runs like its been flashed.

It isn't too hard to know if it is not flashed.  If there isn't much power below 4K at mid-throttle- not flashed.  If there are noticable power dips at mid or high throttle through 4K-7K- not flashed.  Of course, nothing illustrates the change more than riding it before and after :)

Quote
Need to sell a few unused items so I can send the brain on a Florida vacation at concours boot camp for a proper attitude adjustment.

Definitely
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Conrad on August 22, 2019, 06:48:11 am
i glanced at the speedo after letting it breathe in 5th on an open stretch of slab this afternoon. I caught the needle dropping from a couple notches over 160 after I chopped the throttle. It was still pulling strong when I backed off.
After safe arrival at the hideout, I yanked the seat and pulled the ecu out from the strap looking for evidence of tampering (flash sticker).
2012 bought used this April with under 10k miles. I don't feel it runs like its been flashed. Wont come close to power wheelie without clutch in any gear. No sticker, appears bone stock aside from battery tender connector and tires.
I understand indicated speed doesn't mean actual speed, but I was well over 155 (limiter is set at 154 on gen2, no?) as far as the bike was concerned. What gives?
oh, found the rev limiter this morning :-* This thing is FUN. Need to sell a few unused items so I can send the brain on a Florida vacation at concours boot camp for a proper attitude adjustment. Hopefully can sneak that by the financial advisor this winter.

I'm not sure that I understand. Did the previous owner tell you that the bike had been flashed? Is that why you were surprised by the speed limiter at 154 (that would be actual speed, not speedo indicated)?

No such limiter on the superior gen one C14.    8) 
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 22, 2019, 09:05:29 am
I'm not sure that I understand. Did the previous owner tell you that the bike had been flashed? Is that why you were surprised by the speed limiter at 154 (that would be actual speed, not speedo indicated)?

No such limiter on the superior gen one C14.    8)

No, I was never told it was flashed. I don’t believe it is.
I’m not understanding why it seems my stock gen2 has no limiter. Further “testing” is required to verify results and a gps speedometer app with top speed memory should clear things up, but i am certain I was around at least 165 indicated and still accelerating before I started coming up on civilization and closed the throttle. If it has been flashed, I’m not happy and will be sending it to Steve at some point.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 22, 2019, 01:18:03 pm
C, you ain't alone.  I'm not sure I'm understanding the question either.  So the OP isn't happy about 165mph indicated?  Sounds like to me it's running fine.  What's the issue?
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on August 22, 2019, 03:25:43 pm
If the tire sizes are not correct, it could be that (taller tires), combined with regular variance, would have the "indicated" speed far off from the actual speed.  It gets quite amplified as speed gets up there.

Does the bike really limit SPEED or just RPM?  I thought it just had a rev limiter.  If it limits only RPM, then top speed would be rev limiter x gearing x tires.  So indicated speed could be more than what one would expect.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 22, 2019, 06:30:18 pm
C, you ain't alone.  I'm not sure I'm understanding the question either.  So the OP isn't happy about 165mph indicated?  Sounds like to me it's running fine.  What's the issue?

I’m happy but confused because the bike is not supposed to go that fast in stock form.
The whole reason I keep typing “indicated” is because that’s what the speedo was reading which, in theory, is what the bikes computer thinks my velocity is. Theres no gps built into the bike that I’m aware of, so when the speedo reads 154 it should go no faster being limited to that speed by the factory programming(regardless of actual speed). Why was it still pulling into the 160s?
As I said, more testing is needed to verify the apparent anomaly. Whenever the opportunity arises again.
No need to think too deeply about it. Obviously this must be the first report of this happening. Maybe I’m just loosing my marbles. I will return to this thread either yay or nay when I try again.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: The Pope on August 23, 2019, 04:07:47 am
To my knowledge, there isn't a "speed" limiter, only a "Rev" limiter within the ECU.

There have been several GPS documented 165 MPH runs (in 5th gear as there's too much wind resistance to go this fast in 6th). The main reason that the C14 "normally" tops out in the 160's is mostly due to the Aerodynamics & Wind Resistance. Oh and the size of the riders balls.......

So Jethrobolas.... How was your bike configured when you made this run? With or Without the hard bags? Do you have the "stock" windscreen or aftermarket? I'd presume that you had the windscreen at it's lowest setting and you were in a "tucked" position, but again, that is just a presumption.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 23, 2019, 05:00:19 am
My Gen1 clocked at 185 by friendly police radar, controlled setting.  Not by me.  Balls too small.  It had one of Steve's flashes.  Don't remember which one now.  The C14 is one amazing, little known amazing machine.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 23, 2019, 09:04:22 am
To my knowledge, there isn't a "speed" limiter, only a "Rev" limiter within the ECU.

There have been several GPS documented 165 MPH runs (in 5th gear as there's too much wind resistance to go this fast in 6th). The main reason that the C14 "normally" tops out in the 160's is mostly due to the Aerodynamics & Wind Resistance. Oh and the size of the riders balls.......

So Jethrobolas.... How was your bike configured when you made this run? With or Without the hard bags? Do you have the "stock" windscreen or aftermarket? I'd presume that you had the windscreen at it's lowest setting and you were in a "tucked" position, but again, that is just a presumption.

Side cases on, no top case, stock screen full down and I didn’t weasel under the paint but I got tucked in a bit to get my helmet/shoulders  out of the wind.

Rode it to work again but have my top case mounted because I need the storage today so I don’t want to push it too much. Sure makes the 160 mile round trip more tolerable. Long commute because I dislike Chicago but need the money it contains.  Fantastic machine, no doubt. If I could just get the wifey comfortable on it...........and her discomfort has nothing to do with the way I ride...usually.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: just gone on August 23, 2019, 09:57:38 am
I have no references to quote, but somewhere on the internet was read by my cousin's ex-girlfriend's brother-in-law's acquaintance's friend ( ::) ), and it said that the GEN I C14's were limited to 300 kph (186.411 mph) and that Gen II's were limited to 250 kph (155.3 mph) from the factory.

Somebody check that out for us will you?..... I'm just too busy right now.  8) :popcorn:
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 23, 2019, 10:56:33 am
I have no references to quote, but somewhere on the internet was read by my cousin's ex-girlfriend's brother-in-law's acquaintance's friend ( ::) ), and it said that the GEN I C14's were limited to 300 kph (186.411 mph) and that Gen II's were limited to 250 kph (155.3 mph) from the factory.

Somebody check that out for us will you?..... I'm just too busy right now.  8) :popcorn:
I have read the same thing, and that is the reason I started this thread. Honestly, I thought it was a well known fact.
Why would kaw limit the speed? Are you less dead in a crash doing 155 than 185? With machines available that can easily walk right by the Connie, whats the point of limiting top speed.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: PH14 on August 23, 2019, 11:53:34 am
I’m happy but confused because the bike is not supposed to go that fast in stock form.
The whole reason I keep typing “indicated” is because that’s what the speedo was reading which, in theory, is what the bikes computer thinks my velocity is. Theres no gps built into the bike that I’m aware of, so when the speedo reads 154 it should go no faster being limited to that speed by the factory programming(regardless of actual speed). Why was it still pulling into the 160s?
As I said, more testing is needed to verify the apparent anomaly. Whenever the opportunity arises again.
No need to think too deeply about it. Obviously this must be the first report of this happening. Maybe I’m just loosing my marbles. I will return to this thread either yay or nay when I try again.

A number of my motorcycles over the years have had a speedo error of around 12%, that would make your actual speed about 145, at an indicated 165, well under the limit. My RC51 had an error of 8%, so an indicated 165 would be 151.8, also under the limit.  An 8% error is not uncommon.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: connie_rider on August 23, 2019, 01:50:47 pm
I found this. Not sure why the C-14 is 155, other than the fairing would make it less stable above that speed.
Or the agreement changes from 186 to 155 for certain class of motorcycles.

Best Answer:  The OEM Japanese manufacturers decided to limit the speed of any bike that could approach 200 mph to 186 mph.This was done in 2001.Mainly the reason was to keep the goverment from stepping in and setting horsepower limits.In 1980,in the USA,we had senators screaming about "Killer Superbikes" and wanting to set HP limits then. Luckly, it did not happen. This Agreement was widely reported on in 2001 by all the M/C magazines.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: B.D.F. on August 23, 2019, 04:12:18 pm
Yep, perception and the belief that manufacturers are encouraging people to do dangerous things, such as ride at very excessive speeds, on their products. Which is exactly why we have 1) the fastest production motorcycle and 2) the quickest production motorcycle. And that helps sell bikes but it also alerts some other people, notably politicians, that we must 'do something' about this horrible problem, whether it is either horrible or even a problem or not. This is not new either, the big four American car manufacturers signed into an anti- racing plan back in the 1950's when cars started to produce a lot of horsepower and go considerably faster (1957 if memory serves).

Perception trumps reality every single time: red sports bikes doing 80 MPH are far more of a danger, and actually going much faster than an old- man's fat sport- tourer doing 80 MPH, especially if ridden by an old man. Sounds silly but it works the vast majority of the time.

And once is a while someone really does 'do something' about this pressing problem- the French limit motorcycle hp to 100 so bikes such as the C-14 (or GTR1400) have air restrictors put into their intakes, as well as any other motorcycles sold and used in France. Now a realistic look at motorcycle fatalities will show that there is absolutely no need to have more than 100 hp to slaughter people by the dozens of thousands but hey, as long as they 'did something', that is what counts, right?

On a more sane level, Germany was tired of picking up German carcasses and their motorcycle wrecks and instituted a new law; a new motorcycle license holder was limited to 600 cc max. for the first two years after receiving his / her motorcycle license. Then that person could ride anything. And BTW, the person did not have to actually ride <any> motorcycle for the first two years, simply let the two year time- out run out and viola! This actually had a positive effect on reducing motorcycle deaths in Germany, or so I have been told by several German nationals.

Brian

I found this. Not sure why the C-14 is 155, other than the fairing would make it less stable above that speed.
Or the agreement changes from 186 to 155 for certain class of motorcycles.

Best Answer:  The OEM Japanese manufacturers decided to limit the speed of any bike that could approach 200 mph to 186 mph.This was done in 2001.Mainly the reason was to keep the goverment from stepping in and setting horsepower limits.In 1980,in the USA,we had senators screaming about "Killer Superbikes" and wanting to set HP limits then. Luckly, it did not happen. This Agreement was widely reported on in 2001 by all the M/C magazines.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: kzz1king on August 23, 2019, 04:22:30 pm
 At 75 indicated with the 50 series I am doing 70-71. With the 55 series 75 it is 72. I have never checked it at 150 but have had occasion . Cant imagine what the penalty for that is.
Wayne


A number of my motorcycles over the years have had a speedo error of around 12%, that would make your actual speed about 145, at an indicated 165, well under the limit. My RC51 had an error of 8%, so an indicated 165 would be 151.8, also under the limit.  An 8% error is not uncommon.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on August 23, 2019, 04:32:17 pm
Yep, perception and the belief [...] we must 'do something' about this horrible problem, whether it is either horrible or even a problem or not. [...] Perception trumps reality every single time

Sounds exactly like the vast majority of "gun control".  I believe that most people operate only on emotion, not logic or fact.  (And these "woke", "emotional" and "empathetic" people are also really good at spending other people's money and taking away other people's rights, choices, and freedoms).

Of course, there is a weak relation between a motorcycle's top speed and/or power and the likelihood of a fatal accident on those.  But that is more likely because of who is attracted to that model.  Such a person is likely to be irresponsible and dangerous at 150 or 125 or 100, or 60 MPH.   Power and speed are only a small, small fraction of overall risk.... If I had a dollar for every slow HD rider I see who is dressed completely inappropriately, changing lanes without using signals, barely visible brake lights, weaving, severely distracted, tailgating, and doing all kinds of stupid stuff, I would have a lot of money.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jgiacobbe on August 23, 2019, 04:43:37 pm
The speedo and the ecu get signal from the same sensor for speed but each interprets the signal independently. My bike as an ex police moto happened to come to me with the speed sensor wire disconnected from the ECU but still connected to the speedo. It resulted in an error code. I'm willing to bet the ECU interprets the speed from that signal much less optimistically than the speedo.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Conrad on August 24, 2019, 07:11:35 am
I’m happy but confused because the bike is not supposed to go that fast in stock form.
The whole reason I keep typing “indicated” is because that’s what the speedo was reading which, in theory, is what the bikes computer thinks my velocity is. Theres no gps built into the bike that I’m aware of, so when the speedo reads 154 it should go no faster being limited to that speed by the factory programming(regardless of actual speed). Why was it still pulling into the 160s?
As I said, more testing is needed to verify the apparent anomaly. Whenever the opportunity arises again.
No need to think too deeply about it. Obviously this must be the first report of this happening. Maybe I’m just loosing my marbles. I will return to this thread either yay or nay when I try again.

I'm positive that Kawasaki is fully aware that the speedo doesn't show the actual speed. Further, I'm sure that if they wanted to limit the speed to 154 (and they have) as indicated by GPS then they would have no problems doing so regardless of what the speedo reads.

My understanding is that the speedo reads ~5% high. Add 5% to your 155 and you have ~163, exactly what you observed according to your first post.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: B.D.F. on August 24, 2019, 12:22:57 pm
OFFTOPIC: yeah, it is like gun control (and not the good kind where one has a sharp eye and a steady hand). But I choose to avoid that subject. There are actually many things that fit in this general category, transportation comes immediately to mind. We slaughter more than 40K people per year in the US but aspect of all the attention and most of the time spent on travel safety? Air travel, one of, if not THE safest ways to travel known. But again it is the perception: an airliner crash and several hundred dead is a tragedy that commands a huge amount of time and attention but because cars kill people by the ones and twos, it is not a big deal. But add up all the deaths in the world from airline accidents and compare that to all the auto deaths and I think most people would be amazed at where the real problem is.

It has been said that the odds of a bucked downing are higher than dying in a mass shooting in the US but I do not have the data to back that up. Of course, I cannot find publised data as to the deaths per 100,000 of the population that mass shootings have caused because that is not information that would support those who are trying so desperately to make this out to be some kind of national epidemic. It IS bad and understandable of course, it just is not statistically significant.

How does it go? There are lies, damn lies and statistics. Just like the old saying: 'Let's not clutter up this issue with a lot of pertinent facts'.

Brian

Sounds exactly like the vast majority of "gun control".  I believe that most people operate only on emotion, not logic or fact.  (And these "woke", "emotional" and "empathetic" people are also really good at spending other people's money and taking away other people's rights, choices, and freedoms).

Of course, there is a weak relation between a motorcycle's top speed and/or power and the likelihood of a fatal accident on those.  But that is more likely because of who is attracted to that model.  Such a person is likely to be irresponsible and dangerous at 150 or 125 or 100, or 60 MPH.   Power and speed are only a small, small fraction of overall risk.... If I had a dollar for every slow HD rider I see who is dressed completely inappropriately, changing lanes without using signals, barely visible brake lights, weaving, severely distracted, tailgating, and doing all kinds of stupid stuff, I would have a lot of money.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on August 24, 2019, 07:08:20 pm
I'm positive that Kawasaki is fully aware that the speedo doesn't show the actual speed. Further, I'm sure that if they wanted to limit the speed to 154 (and they have) as indicated by GPS then they would have no problems doing so regardless of what the speedo reads.

My understanding is that the speedo reads ~5% high. Add 5% to your 155 and you have ~163, exactly what you observed according to your first post.
This is makes the most sense to me. Not sure when I can give it a go again. First 5k miles on it since purchasing it behind me, time for an oil change. Barely have any time on it bag-less though. I’ll be on some deserted slab or a ribbon of asphalt between bean fields sooner or later. Phone sits on the bars now so no excuse to neglect to open my gps speedo app.
Busy as can be right now between work and home projects so not much playtime🛠 thank you for all the replies!
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 26, 2019, 04:57:33 am
Ixnay on the gun control discussion.  There's other boards for that.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on September 05, 2019, 05:35:05 pm
Ok at 70 gps, speedo reads 75. Couple tanker trucks forced me to abort mission. Creeping up on the
4-5 shift when the experiment ended.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 06, 2019, 06:05:20 pm
Never had the ballz to try taking pictures on high end runs, but when my '08 was like a month old, and well broken in, fully loaded side bags, and trunk, my Garmin was indicating 158 while  my speedometer was buzzzing around 164..  a couple times... before I ran out of "safe road" (i.e. no LEO hidy spots) in Va.
Since then, I have seen 170 indicated, and GPS read around 163.... a couple times. I'm gonna have to "dump" my saved top end readings from my Garmin, and re-try the thing again, now tthat I have my Mountain Runner Premium flash...

The speeds I noted were in 5th, at shift point to 6th, and when upshifted I did have a bit of 'upper room" to attempt to see "top end... "

(all were just below the 9k rpm threshold, in 5th.)

I love my "old" 1400... the first year models were the ones that would surprise people.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: khager01 on September 09, 2019, 01:16:13 pm
Just my opinion but I am not sure the C14 even has a speed limiter or ever did.  No way that even an older model is going to do a true 186 mph in stock form.  This was the discussion in another forum on Facebook.  The only persons that would know for sure would be Steve or Ivan or anybody else that has seen the inner workings of the software in the ECU.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 09, 2019, 03:52:25 pm
Just my opinion but I am not sure the C14 even has a speed limiter or ever did.  No way that even an older model is going to do a true 186 mph in stock form.  This was the discussion in another forum on Facebook.  The only persons that would know for sure would be Steve or Ivan or anybody else that has seen the inner workings of the software in the ECU.

do yourself a favor... back away from those 2 facebook pages.
Nothing good will come from them, whatsover.
I don't know Ivan... I do Know Steve... and I do have contact with the owner of the bike, that has been "under scrutiny" by the "minions".  Lets just say, if you ain't stupid, you can easily read between the lines of reality.  I don't think you are stupid,  :thumbs: :thumbs: :hail: :chugbeer:

I was present at the "intro talk" at the '07 national rally, where "every tidbit" was discussed,(where they also said they wouldn't do linked brakes... or traction control.. because it would "detract" from the owner experience...heheheheh) I only had my bike for a couple weeks prior, and was one of 2 people that actually owned first editions, and were present.
The bike, as produced, never had a "speed limiter" tied to the speed sensor, only a "rev limiter", as a protective device. later in time, I can't say for certain, but I believe they "went in" and messed with stuff, but in reality i don't believe it was tied directly to "speed sensed".. I'll leave that up to Steve to address..
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on September 09, 2019, 05:09:32 pm
The bike, as produced, never had a "speed limiter" tied to the speed sensor, only a "rev limiter", as a protective device.

Yep, that is what I posted weeks ago.  I don't think it also has a "speed limiter" but only a "rev limiter" which just equates to a certain speed based on rpm x tire size x gear x final drive.  Would love to know for sure if this is wrong.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: kzz1king on September 10, 2019, 10:24:52 am
Both of the flashs (Steves and Ivans) mention removal of speed limiters and also talk of rpm limiters. So from my reading of their literature I will go on the premise that it is speed limited in stock form.
Wayne
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: PH14 on September 10, 2019, 11:11:36 am
The 2008 and 2009 models do not have a speed limiter, but the later models do. I have the 2009, that and the fact it is red, makes it the fastest C14.  :chugbeer:
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on September 10, 2019, 03:34:27 pm
Both of the flashs (Steves and Ivans) mention removal of speed limiters and also talk of rpm limiters. So from my reading of their literature I will go on the premise that it is speed limited in stock form.

Inquiring minds want to know!  The ECU has access to speed, I assume, since the ABS and traction control know how fast the wheel is turning (there are sensors for that, of course).  Steve should speak up :)

Not that it really matters that much to me, I know *I* certainly won't be going that fast.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 11, 2019, 07:25:22 am
The 2008 and 2009 models do not have a speed limiter, but the later models do. I have the 2009, that and the fact it is red, makes it the fastest C14.  :chugbeer:


In your dreams..
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: PH14 on September 11, 2019, 09:08:06 am

In your dreams..

 :rotflmao:
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on September 11, 2019, 03:17:30 pm
For me speed is about acceleration.... I don't care much  about top speed (well, as long as it is reasonable).  And the nice part is, as long as you have control (not skidding, not losing traction, not drifting, both tires on ground, being safe), and going under the speed limit, you can get there about as fast as you like and there isn't too much anyone can do about it.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: gPink on September 11, 2019, 04:18:19 pm
"And the nice part is, as long as you have control (not skidding, not losing traction, not drifting, both tires on ground, being safe)"

What a Debbie Downer....
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on September 11, 2019, 05:03:51 pm
What a Debbie Downer....

LOL!
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on June 09, 2020, 08:37:24 pm
160 on the dial and still pulling before I backed off. With the side bags on.
Got kinda wobbly on the curves over 140.
The only thing I believe limiting speed is wind resistance, the space between the operators ears and the volume of the content in the ball bag
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Boomer on June 10, 2020, 03:15:49 am
I saw 165mph on the speedo on the Autobahn in 2007 but it is an analogue speedo so probably over-reads by 10mph up there.
This was with a stock 2008 model (still had those godawful Bridgepoop BT021s on it) with the screen fully down, both side-bags mounted, a 52 litre trunk and a 350lb Boomer onboard.  :banana

Theoretically a stock 08/09 is faster than the 10- models as the 08/09 are limited to 186Mph in the ECU but the 10- are limited to 155mph.
I have yet to hear of anyone comparing early/late model top speeds under identical conditions with calibrated speed measurement equipment.
If you really want to go faster, get a ZX14 or an H2.  :D

Whilst flashing will give you a little more top end power, it's not a huge amount (10-15bhp) which may add 5mph to your top speed.
One of the things that is changed when they flash the ECU is to remove/raise the speed limit.
The primary advantages that flashing gives are
-low RPM grunt so she will accelerate harder
-less snatchy on/off/on throttle
-believe it or not, slightly better gas mileage.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on June 10, 2020, 06:35:24 pm
I'm not trying to break land speed records. Just playing with my toy and seeing what it will do. Originally I figured it would just stop accelerating at 155 (indicated). Fully plan on getting it flashed in the next year and I have realistic expectations based on other members reviews. Currently working on the long ride comfort aspect.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 10, 2020, 07:03:52 pm
per my old post, #24, I have yet to recreate the "top end" experiment, but will be doing it soon..
I feel now with the flash I have, it will pull those last untouched mph/rpm, from this ancient bike.
at 65, my testicles have reduced in size, but not my passion for speed.. I know last year, on a long stretch of Ohio back highway, I hit 170, but my garmine was not funtioning to back up the road speed, and downloaded,,.. we'll do it again shortly.. 170 is a real eye opener.. most people will never know that feeling.
If I die, when I die, I hope it was doing just that.   Being the "Sausage Creature"...

ride safe.. and NO, you can't ride with me..
https://youtu.be/vFyTFToX2eg (https://youtu.be/vFyTFToX2eg)
http://youtu.be/vFyTFToX2eg (http://youtu.be/vFyTFToX2eg)
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: connie_rider on June 11, 2020, 09:56:59 am
Glad your doing it.
      But, it's not in my play-book anymore.

fyi; As I got older: My testicles didn't decrease in size.
                            My brain became larger.  :thumbs:
                            And I lost my "Get Out of Jail Free Card".
                                           :rotflmao:

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on June 12, 2020, 07:31:46 pm
Jeez, y'all pretty....sensitive over the reference to gonads😅 I'm not getting any younger either, fellas. Mid 40s.
And if we're being perfectly honest, old IS the goal. Hopefully my extremities hold up as well and as long as many of yours have, although my hips are already problematic at times and sholders are worse yet already. Life of hard labor and good fun.

If I can catch you, I CAN ride with you🏍
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: gPink on June 13, 2020, 05:43:37 am
Mid 40s....damn near a spring chicken around here... ::)
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 13, 2020, 12:42:00 pm
Hardly out of Kindergarten..
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Boomer on June 15, 2020, 02:59:22 am
And I thought I was the youngster in these here parts at a mere 57 years old next month.  :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Aches and pains come with age, but ya can't let them dominate your life.
I did 80 miles on the C14 and 110 miles on the C10 this weekend and yes it made me ache a little, but so does sitting on the sofa.
I just take painkillers when I have to and get on with life.  :banana
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on September 03, 2020, 08:07:39 pm
165 on the speedo, no bags.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Boomer on September 04, 2020, 05:26:45 am
I think the best way to explain this is to explain the difference between analogue and digital instruments.
If you had both a digital and analogue speedometer you would see 2 different values.

The digital will show the exact value that the speed sensor is outputting as it is digital data.
The analogue will show an approximation of what the speed sensor is outputting because that digital data is converted to a voltage that is applied to the coil in the analogue speedometer and that voltage causes the needle to move against the force of the spring that is pulling it back down again.
Because of the non-linear nature of the spring your analogue speedometer will only at best be 100% accurate at one speed, relative to the input from the speed sensor.

So your sensor is outputting 72.1Mph, the digital speedometer reads 72.1Mph, the analogue speedometer reads 75Mph (or is it 76? It depends on your angle of view) and your REAL speed as measured by GPS or a calibrated laser/radar system is 68.9Mph.

All EU/UK speedos have to measure equal to or higher than the real speed. IIRC the tolerance is 0% to +10% since some point in the mid Noughties.
So, if your real speed (GPS, radar, etc) is 68.9Mph, that could be displayed as up to 75.8Mph and still be deemed acceptable but it is not allowed to display under the real speed. Manufacturers build in a tolerance to compensate for tyre wear and other variables that can affect the value that their speed sensor puts out. They do this so that you can't sue them for indicating a speed UNDER what you were actually doing, so your speedometer mostly reads between +5% and +10% even if it is digital.

In the USA commercial vehicles speedometers are required to be calibrated to +/- 5Mph at 50Mph so in theory can show 45 to 55Mph for a real speed of 50Mph. To my knowledge there are no US rules for cars or motorcycles, so they mostly follow the rest of the world with the 0% to +10% rule.

If you hit the speed limiter, you'd know about it as she would stop accelerating and probably even slow down slightly.
Chances are the bike is only capable of 153 in stock form anyways so the 2010- 155Mph limiter is a sop to certain countries who insisted on a 250Kph limiter.
The 08/09 was limited to 186Mph (300Kph) because that was what all the Japanese manufacturers agreed on after the Busa/ZX14 wars started to get silly.
That agreement now seems to have died since the H2 is way faster than that, as are some of the litre sportsbikes.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on September 04, 2020, 06:12:55 pm
If you notice, every time I post a speed I make sure to add the device I got the number from. So far, that has only been the stock speedometer. I never have claimed my miserable carcass has attained warp speed.

Here, let me repeat the original question in a different way....

Where will my speedometer needle be when I hit the factory speed limiter? What will my indicated speed be when the computer limits the engine's output to the rear wheel?

I never asked about "theoretical top speed" or "speedometer vs actual (GPS,radar,laser) speed".

The whole point of the opening post was "hey, I thought the 2012 had a speed limiter (155mph) that a flash eliminates among a gang of other benefits. There doesn't appear to be a limiter on mine."


With all the mathematical mental gymnastics performed in this thread I will feel truly assured that if I ever have the opportunity to hold-er open till it just won't go no more, I'm really truly doing 155😅
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: PH14 on September 04, 2020, 08:48:02 pm
Well, if your speedo reads 8% high, then your limiter will go off around 168 MPH. 8 percent is not an uncommon amount of error on a motorcycle speedo. That is what my RC51 was when I checked it to set the Speedo Healer.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on September 06, 2020, 07:56:41 am
Very well then. 170 on the clock. Need to stiffen up my rear damping to try that. I felt it was still pulling decent when I backed off at 165, but hard to tell with the wind at that speed. I have an old go pro that needs a battery and I'm planning on getting a new cell soon to get a good GPS number.

 Pics or it didn't happen, right? Problem is, it's difficult to plan for a rare opportunity.
 Usually I'm commuting to/from work when the sun shines upon a wide, smooth, empty ribbon of asphalt begging to be swallowed up by the cruise missile as rapidly as possible. Drop the windshield, kick down to 3rd, open throttle, tuck and watch the plains on either side disappear into a blur. Rear starts wandering a bit around 150 on the clock, hence the comment about damping. It's just hard on the back/bike to ride that stiff all the time.

My latest number was acquired on a run to my parents house to grab a tablet that one of my kids forgot there, think it was a Saturday morning. Small backpack, no bags, 180 mile round trip.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: zrx mitch on September 06, 2020, 08:23:32 am
On other Kawasaki models the speed limiter cut is handled by killing some of the ignition coils, you definitely feel/hear it and know what is happening.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: just gone on September 06, 2020, 08:46:10 am
  Pics or it didn't happen, right? Usually I'm commuting to/from work when the sun shines upon a wide, smooth, empty ribbon of asphalt begging to be swallowed up by the cruise missile as rapidly as possible. Drop the windshield, kick down to 3rd, open throttle, tuck and watch the plains on either side disappear into a blur.

Well Jethro you be careful out there doing this research!
(https://cdn.amoanimals.com/d52f25588e1f19dbfc4fc1a7a2fe91471379901592217888.jpg?width=1024&height=767)

Please don't pass anyone at those speeds on two lane roads.
They'll either turn left without a signal or someone will pull out onto the left lane from a side road, and those people only look left before they pull out...they
never check to see if someone is passing in their lane until they are at least half way in it. Don't force the issue just because of a camera. Personally I'll take your word for
it so don't take pics for me...and I'll bet that is how most feel here...probably your kids feel the same way.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on September 06, 2020, 10:25:14 am
I frequent a 4-6 lane stretch of rural divided highway somewhere between Indianapolis and Chicago, 10 miles between exits, straight and flat.
Every now and then there's not a vehicle for as far as one can see. Eventually, cars appear in the distance and are quickly reeled in. Wind resistance at high speed will bring velocity back to acceptable levels well before final approach just by rolling off the throttle and sitting up a bit.
I don't care if someone has doubts, I'm just having fun. Would make a neat YouTube video if I can capture it. It is still risky. It is my vice. This thread certainly sparked more debate than I had anticipated.

"Speed limiter question" is not nearly as cut and dried as I had expected it to be.
 
Thank you for the love too. Seriously.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: B.D.F. on September 06, 2020, 10:55:10 am
Yeah, that sometimes happens on the 'Net. One of the problems is that without direct interaction, no one can tell what mood or condition anyone else may be in when he / she posts. So 'prickly' responses are much more common than they are in person, at least generally. All of that said, this is a pretty calm forum and even at its peak, the vicious posts are just not all that viscous. :-)

The other thing could well be just a somewhat more serious question without any mean intent at all, again without personal interaction it is tough to gauge anything 'said' in normal conversation of forums. The gentleman who did respond to your post(s) is really OK and has been around here for a long time, as have I, and still I cannot really interpret the posts as to whether or not there was any negative intent- I am going to assume not though based on past experience.

These last few months have been tough for a lot of people, both directly as well as creating concern about the future. Some people are doing fine but some are having a hard time in one or more ways and that seems to be adding a bit of 'cranky' to the forum lately.

Funny thing about arguing on the 'Net though is that even if you prove your case, you can never really prove your case once the argument starts. At least that is my experience. So by all means, do whatever you want to do regarding your bike and speed but as Marty said, do not be goaded into doing anything to 'prove' anything because beyond being dangerous, in the end it almost certainly will not work anyway.

Nice bike though, isn't it?  ;)

Brian


<snip>

I don't care if someone has doubts, I'm just having fun. Would make a neat YouTube video if I can capture it. It is still risky. It is my vice. This thread certainly sparked more debate than I had anticipated.

"Speed limiter question" is not nearly as cut and dried as I had expected it to be.
 
Thank you for the love too. Seriously.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: maxtog on September 06, 2020, 05:14:38 pm
I frequent a 4-6 lane stretch of rural divided highway [...]10 miles between exits, straight and flat.
Every now and then there's not a vehicle for as far as one can see.

There is one similar spot here- flat, remote, 2 lane each way divided, perfect visibility, perfect pavement, remote, very low travel, etc.  There "might" be times I go really fast in such a condition.  In such a "theoretical" place, I wouldn't dream of ever doing it very long or around ANY other vehicles.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: Jethrobolas on September 06, 2020, 05:20:30 pm
The "thank you" statement is an honest thank you. No sarcasm.
Title: Re: speed limiter question
Post by: B.D.F. on September 06, 2020, 07:42:20 pm
Yeah, I think we got that and I know I did. ??

I was trying to respond positively and non- sarcastically myself.

Put another way, its all good.

Brian

The "thank you" statement is an honest thank you. No sarcasm.