Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: maxtog on October 26, 2019, 03:46:46 pm

Title: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: maxtog on October 26, 2019, 03:46:46 pm
8.5 years, 43,428 miles.  First day.

I had no idea it was going to be this difficult to do.  It took two of us 5 HOURS just to get to the point of measuring the valve clearance and then the shims and buckets and then stopped (because we are exhausted and I will have to order lots of shims).  My garage is a disaster.  And there are so many freaky mounts and connectors and crap, I am scared we will never get it back together.

1in .002/.002 2in .005/.005 3in .002/.002 4in .002/.002
1ex .007/.007 2ex .007/.007 3ex .007/.007 4ex .008/.007


My mechanic friend says that might explain the running problem I am having at low speed/throttle.  Only 3 of 16 valves are in spec, and 1 of those barely.

13 buckets were 0.106, 2 were 0.105 and 1 was 0.107
Shims were all between 0.089 and 0.093 (most in the middle of that range).

It was necessary to remove the right engine mount.  The lower bolt which was supplied for the Canyon Cages was extremely tight and hard to move.  IT BROKE IN THE MOUNT after about 1 turn.  So that is going to be a huge pain in the ass, I'm sure.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 26, 2019, 04:34:09 pm
https://youtu.be/fn1R-5p_j5c (https://youtu.be/fn1R-5p_j5c)
http://youtu.be/fn1R-5p_j5c (http://youtu.be/fn1R-5p_j5c)


WE HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU FOR YEARS...
to make it happen...

so... a musical interlude is reasonable for assisting... because you were ... numb...

(we love ya man, really we do...)

https://youtu.be/x-xTttimcNk (https://youtu.be/x-xTttimcNk)
http://youtu.be/x-xTttimcNk (http://youtu.be/x-xTttimcNk)

when you complete the task, we will all applaud you, and pat you on the back... you can do it... take lots of pictures....

and you will shine brightly, and have a cigar, when it's done...

https://youtu.be/tbdpv7G_PPg (https://youtu.be/tbdpv7G_PPg)
http://youtu.be/tbdpv7G_PPg (http://youtu.be/tbdpv7G_PPg)

https://youtu.be/54W8kktFE_o (https://youtu.be/54W8kktFE_o)
http://youtu.be/54W8kktFE_o (http://youtu.be/54W8kktFE_o)
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 26, 2019, 04:54:58 pm
but right about now I'm betting you would be singing this song....

https://youtu.be/DPL_SV3n7IU (https://youtu.be/DPL_SV3n7IU)
http://youtu.be/DPL_SV3n7IU (http://youtu.be/DPL_SV3n7IU)



rock on man, you can do it.....
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2019, 05:05:07 pm
From what I've seen posted on forums over the years and experienced in doing 2 bikes myself with similar miles, those clearances are something of a shock - in fact the 'worst' I've ever seen reported.  It's usually 'all were within spec' or '2-3 were just outside spec.'  The two 1400s I did were all within spec but were adjusted to upper limit.  I'm somewhat sceptical of you findings, I must confess. 

I know MOB advocates measuring and swapping buckets to save on shims, but in my view, that makes an already challenging job even more so.  Shims are relatively cheap and if you hafta wait an extra day or 3, so what. 
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 26, 2019, 05:54:47 pm
well, with all respect, I find his readings very believable, and realistic.. considering he has NEVER done a prior inspection/adjust.. in 43k miles... or 8 years... the bike was "as delivered", and just ridden...

I use a very precise 4 place micrometer to do my measurements, as those .0005" things add up. I also use stacked feeler stock with increments to get those .0005", or other, measurments.. they do actually matter to me, when I am doing anything precise, and analyzing something, which may end up being "printed" for other folks.. just my Engineering backround that makes me do it like that.

As for measuring the "head thickness' on the buckets", I found a great amount of "adjust-ability" could be afforded, as those parts are pretty much "pulled from a bin/and combined with th shims" during assembly; there is a great amount of "swap", usability when you begin to measure all the components, and the only thing that is consumed, is "time", but when you want a perfect "combo" in fitup, time is moot.. especially when you do the job in the "off season" like when i did mine last.

It's all about "how much effort" you are willing to do, and as I am pretty analytical, and measure stuff all the time... it just made sense to me. It did allow me to make swaps of shims much easier, and if I had to buy a shim, that was not a big deal, but if I swapped a bucket or 2 and relinquished the need of buying twice the amount of shims.. that was worth it. Also freed up the options for future adjustments.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2019, 06:01:47 pm
 :thumbs:  The 2 I've done hadn't been opened previously, just for the record.   :chugbeer:
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: B.D.F. on October 26, 2019, 06:01:55 pm
Yeah, that is the furthest out of spec. I have ever heard of on a Kawi 1400 engine (C or ZX). I too am somewhat suspect; perhaps you were measuring the clearance on the clearance ramps rather than the true 'back side' (smallest diameter) of the cam? Not throwing rocks at you, just very curious about the 0.003" deviation, especially since it is so consistent.

And yep, it is a pretty involved job doing a valve check / lash adjustment on this bike. Once you get all her clothes off, you find she is wearing petticoats, suspenders everywhere and wrapped in wires and hoses.

You may want to consider doing yourself a favor and putting rubber hoses on each throttle body vernturi nipple and routing them to the left side of the bike- honest, it will save you a ton of time and effort the next time you balance the throttle bodies. I am assuming you ARE balancing the T.B's while this far into the engine.....

It is not a particularly difficult job but it is quite involved, and must be done in a pretty specific order. Methodology is the key to success IMO.

Best of luck with this project.

Brian

8.5 years, 43,428 miles.  First day.

I had no idea it was going to be this difficult to do.  It took two of us 5 HOURS just to get to the point of measuring the valve clearance and then the shims and buckets and then stopped (because we are exhausted and I will have to order lots of shims).  My garage is a disaster.  And there are so many freaky mounts and connectors and crap, I am scared we will never get it back together.

1in .002/.002 2in .005/.005 3in .002/.002 4in .002/.002
1ex .007/.007 2ex .007/.007 3ex .007/.007 4ex .008/.007


My mechanic friend says that might explain the running problem I am having at low speed/throttle.  Only 3 of 16 valves are in spec, and 1 of those barely.

13 buckets were 0.106, 2 were 0.105 and 1 was 0.107
Shims were all between 0.089 and 0.093 (most in the middle of that range).

It was necessary to remove the right engine mount.  The lower bolt which was supplied for the Canyon Cages was extremely tight and hard to move.  IT BROKE IN THE MOUNT after about 1 turn.  So that is going to be a huge pain in the ass, I'm sure.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 26, 2019, 08:52:26 pm
Yeah, that is the furthest out of spec. I have ever heard of on a Kawi 1400 engine (C or ZX). I too am somewhat suspect; perhaps you were measuring the clearance on the clearance ramps rather than the true 'back side' (smallest diameter) of the cam? Not throwing rocks at you, just very curious about the 0.003" deviation, especially since it is so consistent.

I suppose anything is possible, but my friend is an extremely experienced master mechanic who has been doing this his whole life- thousands of vehicles of every type.  I have to go with his numbers (I was not the one measuring).

Quote
And yep, it is a pretty involved job doing a valve check / lash adjustment on this bike. Once you get all her clothes off, you find she is wearing petticoats, suspenders everywhere and wrapped in wires and hoses.

It is at least 400% more complicated and miserable than I thought it would be.  And putting it back together is going to be worse, I simply can't imagine getting it all back correctly.  AND I have to spend hours on the broken bolt.  I am probably going to be down for weeks :(

Quote
You may want to consider doing yourself a favor and putting rubber hoses on each throttle body vernturi nipple and routing them to the left side of the bike- honest, it will save you a ton of time and effort the next time you balance the throttle bodies.

Honestly, I am *NEVER* doing this again.

Quote
I am assuming you ARE balancing the T.B's while this far into the engine.....

Yes
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Freddy on October 26, 2019, 09:02:45 pm
 :thumbs:   :goodpost:
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Pilgrim on October 27, 2019, 05:51:01 am

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Conrad on October 27, 2019, 06:05:32 am
Good luck Max!

This sounds like a nightmare. Like one of those dreams where you're late for class and you have no idea where the classroom is, and yeah, you're naked too.  :o
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 27, 2019, 06:11:12 am
Ug
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 27, 2019, 08:22:38 am
I suppose anything is possible, but my friend is an extremely experienced master mechanic who has been doing this his whole life- thousands of vehicles of every type.  I have to go with his numbers (I was not the one measuring).

I discussed it with him this morning.  He said:

"Measured per manual, which is not my normal method.  I prefer to measure directly on the center of the cam lobe heel. This means setting the crank at 90 and turning the engine four times (180), doing one set of intake and one set of exhaust per. The manual gives the more common way of setting the crank at TDC and doing two sets of each with the lobes canted 45 over. I did check to make sure the lobes were in the correct position each time."

And I would add:  It is highly unlikely only two of the measurements would be "good" while all the rest being "bad."  And since the exhaust seem far more close to spec than the intake (except one cylinder) that tends to indicate it is not a systemic methodology error.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 27, 2019, 08:49:24 am
If you recall, I did express some minor scepticism on getting this done in one day, my friend.  All my valve checks were done by the Kawi Tech at the dealer.  Based on anecdotal evidence here I wouldn't have touched that job with a 10 foot pole.  Good luck!  On the positive side, once this has been completed, you probably will never have to check it again.  My current ride has hydraulic lifters...no valve checks ever again for me.   ;)
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: gPink on October 27, 2019, 03:07:40 pm
If you recall, I did express some minor scepticism on getting this done in one day, my friend.  All my valve checks were done by the Kawi Tech at the dealer.  Based on anecdotal evidence here I wouldn't have touched that job with a 10 foot pole.  Good luck!  On the positive side, once this has been completed, you probably will never have to check it again.  My current ride tractor has hydraulic lifters...no valve checks ever again for me.   ;)

fify
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: kzz1king on October 27, 2019, 06:07:35 pm
It is scary. Wait until its time to fire it up and you are listening for the sound of valves bending :-\. It will work out.
Wayne



Ug
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 28, 2019, 09:03:04 am
The sound of valves bending???
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: kzz1king on October 28, 2019, 01:44:28 pm
Yep. First time I rebuilt a Z1 motor many years ago I  had the cams out of time. I was turning the motor over at the crank when I heard tink, tink, tink. It was all over but the crying, Worse part was I didnt have headwork done when I had the valves replaced.

Wayne
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on October 28, 2019, 08:25:39 pm
If you recall, I did express some minor scepticism on getting this done in one day, my friend.  All my valve checks were done by the Kawi Tech at the dealer.  Based on anecdotal evidence here I wouldn't have touched that job with a 10 foot pole.  Good luck!  On the positive side, once this has been completed, you probably will never have to check it again.  My current ride tractor fringe-bike (https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/galleries/Features/2017/May_2017/Issue_297/TRD_leather/trd_leather_01.jpg?s=f) has hydraulic lifters...no valve checks ever again for me.   ;)
fify

FIFY

(careful pinkie, I think he's watching us.)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Ef0TRTKRVGGQw/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: connie14boy on October 28, 2019, 09:18:58 pm
I discussed it with him this morning.  He said:

"Measured per manual, which is not my normal method.  I prefer to measure directly on the center of the cam lobe heel. This means setting the crank at 90 and turning the engine four times (180), doing one set of intake and one set of exhaust per. The manual gives the more common way of setting the crank at TDC and doing two sets of each with the lobes canted 45 over. I did check to make sure the lobes were in the correct position each time."

 

And I would add:  It is highly unlikely only two of the measurements would be "good" while all the rest being "bad."  And since the exhaust seem far more close to spec than the intake (except one cylinder) that tends to indicate it is not a systemic methodology error.

Max, you would get a kick out of adjusting the solid lifters on a 1969 DZ-302 motor. Running, idling engine at 195*, valve covers off, oil flying on the smoking headers, and working with feeler gauges as the rockers are moving up and down in a blur :o. I love that engine, but really appreciate the modern hydraulic lifters..
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 29, 2019, 05:32:24 am
I love that engine, but really appreciate the modern hydraulic lifters..

Yeah, this is just a ridiculous amount of work for a "maintenance" item, at least on a bike this complicated and packed with stuff.  This makes me want an electric motorcycle even more (if we can just get the battery technology there- we have a pretty long way to go, still).

Shims should be here Wednesday.  We are still trying to figure out how to fix the engine mount.  The attempt to drill out the bolt has failed- it is impossible to center the hole due to the bold surface being so uneven.  My friend has some ideas still.  And we are both still very sore.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Texas Concours14 on October 29, 2019, 08:43:28 am
I feel your pain. When I adjusted the valves on my C14 about 4 years ago it was a true stressor and took a lot of time. At 28k miles, 13 out of 16 valves were slightly out of spec; adjusted them all to the high side of spec range. I am not a mechanic and this was at the limit of my mechanical abilities. But at least when it was done I was certain that all valves were adjusted properly. I was fearful of what would happen when it came time to start the engine, or if the engine would even start. It was a great relief when it started and ran well. But I will never adjust the valves on this bike again. Never. Ever. Best wishes for getting the job done.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: kzz1king on October 29, 2019, 10:12:42 am
That is my sentiments to. Pressing that starter button the first time was hard!


I feel your pain. When I adjusted the valves on my C14 about 4 years ago it was a true stressor and took a lot of time. At 28k miles, 13 out of 16 valves were slightly out of spec; adjusted them all to the high side of spec range. I am not a mechanic and this was at the limit of my mechanical abilities. But at least when it was done I was certain that all valves were adjusted properly. I was fearful of what would happen when it came time to start the engine, or if the engine would even start. It was a great relief when it started and ran well. But I will never adjust the valves on this bike again. Never. Ever. Best wishes for getting the job done.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 29, 2019, 05:34:17 pm
Yeah, this is just a ridiculous amount of work for a "maintenance" item, at least on a bike this complicated and packed with stuff.  This makes me want an electric motorcycle even more (if we can just get the battery technology there- we have a pretty long way to go, still).

Shims should be here Wednesday.  We are still trying to figure out how to fix the engine mount.  The attempt to drill out the bolt has failed- it is impossible to center the hole due to the bold surface being so uneven.  My friend has some ideas still.  And we are both still very sore.


So how long have you been on this forum reading valve check/adjust posts?  Let us know when you want us to call you Haroldo... ;)
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 29, 2019, 05:38:46 pm
I reallllly miss Haroldo...


 :hail: :hail: :goodpost: :goodpost: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :goodpost: :goodpost: :thumbs: :deadhorse: :hitfan: :hitfan: :grouphug:

but...
Haroldo basically did his own work..  a didn't a pro mechanic helping him... Max has like 20 of us, and needs some cheese to go with the "whine"...

just kidding, and in my usual friendly manner... all good... get a hand grinder and grind the end of the broken bolt down flat, then use a center punch, to make a good "divvet" in the end, drill the sucker, and use easy-out to remove...


then, while the bike is "sans-tank", remove and replace that gacked up fuel filter... trust me, it's gacked up now... and will haunt you later............
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 29, 2019, 06:15:28 pm
get a hand grinder and grind the end of the broken bolt down flat, then use a center punch, to make a good "divvet" in the end, drill the sucker

Unfortunately, it is broken further in, so it can't be ground flat... yet.  My friend is making some kind of jig to see if we can get a straight shot with an end-mill type thing to make it flat enough.

Quote
and use easy-out to remove...

It won't be easy.  It broke because of the unbelievable amount of torque we had to put on it.  But we are hoping with heat and such, we can get it out.

Quote
then, while the bike is "sans-tank", remove and replace that gacked up fuel filter... trust me, it's gacked up now... and will haunt you later............

That was on my "maybe" list.  The problem now is that the tank is half full and sitting on its side (and isn't leaking for some reason).  We expected, when it was de-hosed, it would spew gas, but didn't.  Also don't have a filter (and too late now to get one, probably).  I suppose I could try to clean it, though?  Assuming I can somehow get enough gas out of the tank to remove the assembly.  On my old ZRX, it was easy- just turn the valve to empty it, close it to keep gas in.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 29, 2019, 06:24:14 pm
the fuel line contains a check valve, preventing fuel loss when removed... trust me, I did mine just before the national rally this year, and using a BIG funnel, open the cap, and invert the tank over the funnel to remove the fuel.. dump it into your car.

then, when done lay the inverted tank on it's side, and pull the pump, and do the filter... It's very easy.
you don't need to "order one", they sell them at pretty much every Kaw dealership, it's used on about every fuel injected machine Kaw makes.. they are always on the shelf...

49019-0013... should be in stock at most Kaw ATV dealerships..

go over to the COG site, there are a lot of directions for the job there...
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 30, 2019, 05:10:21 pm
Unfortunately, it is broken further in, so it can't be ground flat... yet.  My friend is making some kind of jig to see if we can get a straight shot with an end-mill type thing to make it flat enough.

He first cleaned out the casting ridge that was inside the mounting bracket, making it "true".  He then made a special tool by drilling out a bolt that fits inside the engine mount bracket, with an inside diameter that fits a 5/16" tool and dropped that off today.  The theory is that if I can get the engine to align with the hole (which I am not sure how I will do that and keep it there) I can then use an end-mill bit through that special tool to reface the broken bolt.  Then switch to a 5/16" drill bit and drill through the bolt, using the tool to keep the bit level/straight.  Then we can later use heat to destroy the threadlocking and then back the rest of the bolt back out using something like an easy-out.  I hope to attempt the drilling part on Friday.

Also, the shims arrived today, and are the correct/ordered sizes.  Hats off to Rocky Mountain (ordered on Sunday with "standard" shipping).  I hope we can attempt to use them Saturday afternoon.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: dirtwiz on October 30, 2019, 08:15:25 pm
WOW...I have done valve adjusts on every bike I have owned that needed it over the last 50 years but I will never do one on my C14. I rode mine to Texas (1,300 miles each way) and had Fred Harmon do mine and it was so worth it....especially when I see your pictures. You are a better man than I am. Mine was done at 46,000 miles and he replaced 12 shims to get them all at center but if I remember correctly only 4  were out of spec. 16,000 miles later no leaks or problems of any kind and runs perfect....my wallet is a little lighter though. Two days in a hotel watching TV seemed like more fun than taking on that job. JMO
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on October 31, 2019, 06:42:58 am
Only two pages so far...Come on Max!
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: lather on October 31, 2019, 07:07:56 am
WOW...I have done valve adjusts on every bike I have owned that needed it over the last 50 years but I will never do one on my C14. I rode mine to Texas (1,300 miles each way) and had Fred Harmon do mine and it was so worth it....especially when I see your pictures. You are a better man than I am. Mine was done at 46,000 miles and he replaced 12 shims to get them all at center but if I remember correctly only 4  were out of spec. 16,000 miles later no leaks or problems of any kind and runs perfect....my wallet is a little lighter though. Two days in a hotel watching TV seemed like more fun than taking on that job. JMO
Fred was my solution as well, Great guy to work with. However I hauled my track bike up to Mountain Home along with the C14 and rode some of the best roads in Arkansas while he did the work. ;D
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on October 31, 2019, 08:18:34 am
 :'(
.........I rode mine to Texas (1,300 miles each way) and had Fred Harmon do mine and it was so worth it....especially when I see your pictures. ....my wallet is a little lighter though. Two days in a hotel watching TV seemed like more fun than taking on that job. JMO

Fred was my solution as well, Great guy to work with. However I hauled my track bike up to Mountain Home along with the C14 and rode some of the best roads in Arkansas while he did the work. ;D

Just for clarity on these two posts, between these two above quoted valve jobs, Fred Harmon moved from 15 minutes from my house (Texas) to 8 hours from my house (Arkansas)  :'( :(.  :( :(
He is indeed now living in the Mountain Home Arkansas area.

OK, back to max's story....
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: B.D.F. on October 31, 2019, 02:52:05 pm
OK but you are not the reason he moved, right? At least not the main reason..... ?

 :rotflmao:

Brian

:'(
Just for clarity on these two posts, between these two above quoted valve jobs, Fred Harmon moved from 15 minutes from my house (Texas) to 8 hours from my house (Arkansas)  :'( :(.  :( :(
He is indeed now living in the Mountain Home Arkansas area.

OK, back to max's story....
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on October 31, 2019, 03:21:50 pm
Only two pages so far...Come on Max!

Sorry, I have to work every day.  Not much will happen between weekends.  And much of that is dependent on if/when my friend can help.  I am off tomorrow and will attempt to drill out the broken bolt.  Sunday I have to take THE CAR to Richmond, since I will have no bike.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on October 31, 2019, 06:32:32 pm
OK but you are not the reason he moved, right? At least not the main reason..... ?

 :rotflmao:

Brian

  ;D

No, I only went to his house 4 times. Two of the times was to drop off the bike and the other two were to drop off money, so I don't think that was the reason. If my local presence was the reason he moved I'm sure he would have moved much further away than only 8 hours. Besides the wind pattern from my house to his wasn't a problem (however I've noticed a lot of houses on the market to the north of me...hmmmmm. :-[
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: connie14boy on October 31, 2019, 08:56:44 pm
  ;D

No, I only went to his house 4 times. Two of the times was to drop off the bike and the other two were to drop off money, so I don't think that was the reason. If my local presence was the reason he moved I'm sure he would have moved much further away than only 8 hours. Besides the wind pattern from my house to his wasn't a problem (however I've noticed a lot of houses on the market to the north of me...hmmmmm. :-[

If we ever are close, I'll ride upwind and far ahead..
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on November 01, 2019, 08:59:25 am
If we ever are close, I'll ride upwind and far ahead..

Most do, however it has more to do with my lack of riding skills than it does their ability to breathe.  :-[
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: lather on November 01, 2019, 10:27:05 am
If you guys ever see Fred's place in the hilly, wooded outskirts of Mountain Home you will know why he moved.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 01, 2019, 04:15:24 pm
Today I used my friend's contraption/bushing/thing to reface the broken bolt in the engine mount.  Then bought some new bits and drilled through the bolt with a 5/16".  Took a long time.  Not sure how true or square it is.  Now I have to wait for him to come and try to remove what is left of the bolt.

Meanwhile, I repaired the two fairing mounts which are infamous for breaking.  The two that are on the mirrors that hold the left and right panels (the left one houses the glovebox).  The left one was cracked and almost broken off.  The right one was completely broken off.  I reattached them using small nylon zip ties around the circumference.  Then I spread JB weld all around that.

Then I repaired the other common trim problem- the glovebox panel near the grip warmer control.  It cracked all the way through (pic attached).  I removed the control, cleaned the underside, scored it up with a razor blade, put on some fiberglass tape mesh, then spread JB weld over it.  Will it hold?  Who knows.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 02, 2019, 06:12:09 am
JB Weld is a good product.  I would think it would hold up fine.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 02, 2019, 07:18:37 am
JB Weld is a good product.  I would think it would hold up fine.

It is strong, for sure.  But at least for the panel crack, I am concerned it won't deal with flex.  Time will tell!

I was going through the maintenance schedule again.  I just can't believe they actually think we should replace the spark plugs every 7,500 miles!  Can't wait to see what state mine are in... perhaps today...
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 02, 2019, 03:38:03 pm
Today I used my friend's contraption/bushing/thing to reface the broken bolt in the engine mount.  Then bought some new bits and drilled through the bolt with a 5/16".  Took a long time.  Not sure how true or square it is.  Now I have to wait for him to come and try to remove what is left of the bolt.

It wasn't true/square.  Used heat and an extractor without success.  Drilled out larger and then pushed out pieces what was left of it (out the back), which took threads with it.  Photos of largest chunk attached.  So we will have to use an insert.  I expected as much.

Finished the valve adjustment.  So now clearances are as follows:

1in .006/.008 2in .006/.006 3in .007/.007 4in .008/.007
1ex .009/.009 2ex .009/.009 3ex .008/.008 4ex .008/.008


Replaced spark plugs.  One was slightly overgapped.  None looked all that bad, but all replaced with new.  Changed all the gaskets, put back on cam over, put back exhaust cam sensor with oversized O ring.  Changed oil, cleaned throttle bodies.  Tons of reassembly left to do, some day, so it can be tested.

Noticed the right fan has a little grinding noise when free-spun, the left one doesn't do that.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: strum on November 02, 2019, 06:52:56 pm
Am I wrong to say most of those intakes are too loose?

Valve Clearance Standard:

0.19 ∼ 0.24 mm (0.0075 ∼ 0.0094 in.)Exhaust

0.12 ∼ 0.17 mm (0.0047 ∼ 0.0067 in.)Inlet
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 02, 2019, 09:57:01 pm
Am I wrong to say most of those intakes are too loose?

No.  They are, indeed, on the loose side, but that was intentional because they will [almost always] tighten over time.  You will find most people will adjust them to be on the loose side.  We do admit that the .008 was not intentional nor ideal (we were targeting 0.006 - 0.007), but we couldn't do much else without having to go through a lot of work again and decided it was good enough.  It was a tight 0.008, though (so probably more like 0.0075).
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on November 03, 2019, 09:25:32 am
Noticed the right fan has a little grinding noise when free-spun, the left one doesn't do that.


Was that grinding noise with the fan removed from the radiator or attached? I only ask because you don't want this: http://forum.cog-online.org/rallies-rides-and-events/radiator-patch-at-national/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/rallies-rides-and-events/radiator-patch-at-national/)
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: strum on November 03, 2019, 11:08:55 am
No.  They are, indeed, on the loose side, but that was intentional because they will [almost always] tighten over time.  You will find most people will adjust them to be on the loose side.  We do admit that the .008 was not intentional nor ideal (we were targeting 0.006 - 0.007), but we couldn't do much else without having to go through a lot of work again and decided it was good enough.  It was a tight 0.008, though (so probably more like 0.0075).

 I agree its good to adjust on the high end of spec but to go out of spec to me is a no go.  I think the ex is most subject to tighten than the Intakes. I mean its youre bike but after all you been through I say go back in and get em closer. I know its a pain but you wont be back in some time if ever so this is the time to get it right.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 03, 2019, 01:24:01 pm
Most people, even tho they are very mechanically inclined, simply don't use measurement tools that give finite readings to an ideal precision; case in point

using metric feeler stock, or feeler blades with 3 decimal place precision, and calipers or micrometers with the same 3 decimal place precision, can only "assume" what they read out is "real"; then they haave to base the readings on "did it feel tight, or loose"...

I've said before here, that an economical micrometer, delinated to 4 decimal places (.xxxx"), when used correctly, actually can offer great amounts of clarity on the actual dimension. Combined with again, very economical precision "feeler blades/strips", also combined with being "stacked, and measured to verify", give the same results in judging clearances...
It takes the guesswork about "is this dimension .0002" or .0008" off" from the nominal 3 place dimension.
Individual feelers and also the micrometer which I purchased from McMaster-Carr, only totaled me about $50, and as in my industry I could have the tools verified thru our calibration people.

Then, when happy I am working with good tools, adding in the ability to measure and swap the individual buckets, and seeing the span of deviation on those particular parts, the ability to swap around those along with my shim map, gave me extreme flexibility, and minimal shim purchase expense; while still resulting in meticulous readings.
Opening up the engine, and going thru this does take time, and an amount of patiance and skill.... but in the end, I don't really want to say "it's good enough" when I know the measurements may be "iffy" on my bike.

I'm sure what Max came out with is fine, and will not result in a catastrophic failure; Haroldo proved that it's all possible, with some essence of magic.

Congrats on the job Max.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 03, 2019, 03:54:26 pm
Was that grinding noise with the fan removed from the radiator or attached? I only ask because you don't want this: [url]http://forum.cog-online.org/rallies-rides-and-events/radiator-patch-at-national/[/url] ([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/rallies-rides-and-events/radiator-patch-at-national/[/url])



Had that very thing happen with a friend of mine's BMW many years ago.  We used JB Weld to fix it.  It lasted 5 years and then failed when an old lady T-boned him and the bike.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 03, 2019, 08:37:20 pm
Was that grinding noise with the fan removed from the radiator or attached?

With it attached, spun by hand.  It is not touching anything.  Sounds like the bearings are a bit wonky.  I don't recall reading anything about this before, and searched the forums with no matches.  It could be normal for that fan, I don't know (since I have never touched it before).  I do need to apply power to it as a test to see what that sounds like, but haven't gotten to it yet.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 03, 2019, 08:50:13 pm
I agree its good to adjust on the high end of spec but to go out of spec to me is a no go.  I think the ex is most subject to tighten than the Intakes.

Well, that doesn't match the experience with this bike.  Of course, I have a sample size of exactly 1, but look at how incredibly far out of spec my intakes were compared to the exhaust [assuming from the factory they were all dead-on-center] .  Almost all the exhaust were only 0.0005 out of spec, but most of the intakes were 0.0027 out of spec (540% more out of spec than the exhaust)!  Of course "Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results."
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 03, 2019, 08:53:53 pm
I'm sure what Max came out with is fine, and will not result in a catastrophic failure[...]Congrats on the job Max.

Don't congratulate yet.  It could be weeks before this nightmare ends... longer if something goes wrong.  Still not sure we can ever get it all back together again [correctly].
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 09, 2019, 03:24:00 pm
Today we put in a "Time Sert" thread insert which repaired the right engine mount and reattached the canyon cage using a new bolt.  Reassembled the throttle bodies, velocity stacks, plugged everything back in, reattached the radiator, throttle, engine stays, air box covers.  It is close to testing.

After 4 hour, my friend left and I continued connecting things for another hour until I hit the fairing stays and I can't figure them out, so I will wait for help.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 09, 2019, 04:26:14 pm
I'll dig thru my photos, and post if it would help, using the Kaw parts Microfiche may help also in seeing which is which, and what bolts go where...

Prolly tomorrow, during halftime of the game.

 :'( 8) ;)
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 09, 2019, 11:46:02 pm
I'll dig thru my photos, and post if it would help, using the Kaw parts Microfiche may help also in seeing which is which, and what bolts go where...

That would be helpful.  The photos in the manual are practically useless- they are so small and bleak.  If I just had a few decent photos of the two sides of the bike with just the covers off.  I am kicking myself for not doing so.

Damn it is cold suddenly.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 10, 2019, 11:02:14 am
That would be helpful. 

Never mind.  I actually figured it out.  FINALLY.  So all that is now done, too, plus I put the tank back on.  It is ready to test.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on November 10, 2019, 11:32:58 am
fingers crossed emoticon goes here.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 10, 2019, 01:51:17 pm
It works!!!!!!!

 :)  :D  :)  :D  ;D  :D  :)

Had my friend on the phone and he gave the green light to try it.  First attempt failed with flashing fuel level and no sound of fuel pump.  Yep, forgot those two connectors.  After that, started after the third try!  Then it starts instantly each time (and with no familiar timing chain rattle, either).  Made a hell of a lot of smoke, scared me, but friend said it was just oil.  So worked on filling and filling the cooling system with distilled water.  Then let it run until fans cycled twice.  Now waiting for it to cool down so I can drain it and replace with antifreeze mix.

As much as I wanted to test the TB sync, it isn't going to happen.  Neither of us have the time or patience or tools to do it.  Oh well.

I am going to replace the final drive oil now.  Then farings and rubber crap nightmare is after that.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 11, 2019, 06:45:12 pm
I spent hours putting on fairings, save one (the middle left) because I am concerned I might need to add more coolant.  It only accepted 2.5qt, same as when I filled for flushing.  I don't know if that is normal or not.

So I decided to take a test drive tonight (with that one fairing off)....

WOW

What a difference!!!  All the low-end problems are now GONE.  It is smooth as glass- especially noticeable with launching and downshifting to a stop.  I knew it was bad, but the contrast is amazing.  It is so easy to drive now.  I only rode for 30 min, haven't even eaten dinner yet, but I really wanted to keep going.

No change in coolant level in reserve/overflow tank.  Still exactly on "full".  During the ride (ambient 55F) I was always at 2 bars (of 6) when moving and 3 bars when stopped for a short while.  That is normal for this weather.  At home, I let it idle in garage, and it crept to 4 bars, then after a while the fans started cycling, keeping it at 4 bars.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on November 11, 2019, 10:37:56 pm
Congrats max'!  :thumbs: :chugbeer:

I guess I better get that overcoat and some heated gear on, Hell is about to freeze over.  :P
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Conrad on November 12, 2019, 07:33:13 am
Well done Max!    :chugbeer:
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: strum on November 12, 2019, 07:48:25 am
Great news!!!!  Glad for you on this . I know its been an experience.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: kzz1king on November 12, 2019, 09:50:42 am
Congrates! Its a good feeling and a relief, isnt it?
Wayne
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: fartymarty on November 12, 2019, 10:54:00 am
Any photos of the old air filter? I don't think you mentioned it anywhere in this thread.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: tweeter55 on November 12, 2019, 01:34:48 pm



WOW

What a difference!!!
:banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana
Congrats!! You just had to know the dancin' 'nanas were coming.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 12, 2019, 03:06:41 pm
Any photos of the old air filter? I don't think you mentioned it anywhere in this thread.


I actually posted it Oct 27 in an appropriate thread :)  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13197.msg303081#msg303081 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13197.msg303081#msg303081)   Somehow it slipped by ya...
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 12, 2019, 03:13:40 pm
Thanks for all the congrats.  Trust me, I will never attempt it again.  I am still concerned that the coolant flush was only 2.5 qt and the final fill was also only 2.5 qt.   I wish I had measured what came out both times.

And now it is, believe it or not, snowing.  That will end and then be bitter cold and icy tonight and all tomorrow.  Thursday I might be able to slip in a short ride after work, but then it will rain for 5 days, all through the weekend and early next week :(  I want to ride it!!!
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 12, 2019, 03:15:27 pm
I'm glad you got it all sorted!
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: Conrad on November 13, 2019, 07:27:14 am
Thanks for all the congrats.  Trust me, I will never attempt it again.  I am still concerned that the coolant flush was only 2.5 qt and the final fill was also only 2.5 qt.   I wish I had measured what came out both times.

And now it is, believe it or not, snowing.  That will end and then be bitter cold and icy tonight and all tomorrow.  Thursday I might be able to slip in a short ride after work, but then it will rain for 5 days, all through the weekend and early next week :(  I want to ride it!!!

You said that you filled and ran it with pure distilled water right? Then drained that and added the coolant. You may not have the correct % of coolant to water now.
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: fartymarty on November 13, 2019, 09:07:39 am
I actually posted it Oct 27 in an appropriate thread :)  [url]http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13197.msg303081#msg303081[/url] ([url]http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13197.msg303081#msg303081[/url])   Somehow it slipped by ya...


It sure did slip by me, and you know I watch you like a hawk.  :popcorn:
 It must of been when I was off looking for all my cold weather gear in case hell froze over. :yikes:
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 13, 2019, 03:31:25 pm
You said that you filled and ran it with pure distilled water right? Then drained that and added the coolant. You may not have the correct % of coolant to water now.

That is possible.  But what else can I do?  I drained it, filled it with distilled water.  Ran it, feeding as much as it would take (ever) which was 2.5qt.  Drained it, filled it with premix.  Ran it, feeding as much as it would take (ever) which was 2.5qt.  I don't know where the missing 1 qt is.  Perhaps it was just retained somewhere that would not drain.  In which case, there is a 1 qt remnant of unknown mix of distilled water and premix that diluted the new premix.  From a freezing standpoint, it won't matter, since here it will never get below maybe 20F.  From an overheating standpoint, that shouldn't matter either, since water is better at heat transfer than premix.  From a corrosion standpoint- I don't know (at least I used distilled).

I asked my mechanic friend "if there is missing coolant in there, will it eventually replace what is missing from the overflow bottle?" And he said yes.  But after my 30 min test drive, the level didn't change.  And after several hours of cool-down, it still didn't change.  It is a mystery that I don't like.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 13, 2019, 05:03:11 pm
That is possible.  But what else can I do?  I drained it, filled it with distilled water.  Ran it, feeding as much as it would take (ever) which was 2.5qt.  Drained it, filled it with premix.  Ran it, feeding as much as it would take (ever) which was 2.5qt.  I don't know where the missing 1 qt is.  Perhaps it was just retained somewhere that would not drain.  In which case, there is a 1 qt remnant of unknown mix of distilled water and premix that diluted the new premix.  From a freezing standpoint, it won't matter, since here it will never get below maybe 20F.  From an overheating standpoint, that shouldn't matter either, since water is better at heat transfer than premix.  From a corrosion standpoint- I don't know (at least I used distilled).

I asked my mechanic friend "if there is missing coolant in there, will it eventually replace what is missing from the overflow bottle?" And he said yes.  But after my 30 min test drive, the level didn't change.  And after several hours of cool-down, it still didn't change.  It is a mystery that I don't like.

don't sweat it man, it's good.. the 3.7 qt figure in the book is when the bike is manufactured, and completely dry..and includes the overflow tank;  residual liquid is retained all over the engine, radiator, oil cooler jacket, fill bottle (that is part of the actual liquid figure shown in the book, so that coolant reservoir 20 oz.  never gets seen.. but is noted as part of the total system fluid)... your bike will be fine, and protected...

I'll also note, that you need not worry about any "air bleeding" on the C14, as this system was designed to automatically do that for you, via a supply line from the w/p, which accomplishes the "purge"; just in case you were thinking there may be "air" trapped, like in the old C10 models..   which is good... so ya got that going for ya, as Karl Spackler would say "Gunga-La Gunga..."
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: maxtog on November 13, 2019, 05:28:02 pm
don't sweat it man, it's good..

Thanks.  Just call me nervous.  I will go ahead and put on the last two panels and call it done.  Tomorrow it is supposed to warm up some, so I absolutely want to take it out for at least a bit.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: dirtwiz on November 13, 2019, 06:30:21 pm
:'(
Just for clarity on these two posts, between these two above quoted valve jobs, Fred Harmon moved from 15 minutes from my house (Texas) to 8 hours from my house (Arkansas)  :'( :(.  :( :(
He is indeed now living in the Mountain Home Arkansas area.

OK, back to max's story....
Just for clarity....I will gladly ride an extra 8 hours to Arkansas from my home in Utah before I will ever put myself thru doing a valve adjust on this bike. Just saying. Life is too short!!
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 13, 2019, 06:47:28 pm
some folks seem to have too much money, and time..... I really feel the whole job is quite painless, just takes a couple days.

I can't poop out $2k for a trip and repair, and when you add the expenses up; that would be about what it would cost. Gas, Hotels, repair bill, any "incidentals" that pop up in the week long venture.

but, I'm a "realist", and cheap.. and live on SSI... but I got tools.

I guess it's moot for me to say that all, having done the service myself.
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: maxtog on November 13, 2019, 08:01:58 pm
some folks seem to have too much money, and time..... I really feel the whole job is quite painless, just takes a couple days.

My broken engine mount bolt did extend the process quite a bit.  But with two of us working on it, I estimate around 30 man hours (including plugs, filters, oil, flush, etc).  Granted, it would be much easier/faster a second time, due to learning how it all works.  Following the manual is quite a chore- jumping from one section, to another, to another....  It would have been completely impossible had I not a very experienced mechanic with me.  So I wouldn't call it painless (and not just because it was killing my back and legs (his, too)).

For me, it not about money it was about wanting to know it was actually done correctly, within my control, and without any damage to anything.  But I am not kidding when I say I don't think I could go through that again.  And I really do caution people attempting this job to think carefully first.  It can take a LOT of time and there are a LOT of ways you can totally destroy the engine, plus it is very frustrating.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: jwh20 on November 14, 2019, 04:27:29 am
Just for clarity....I will gladly ride an extra 8 hours to Arkansas from my home in Utah before I will ever put myself thru doing a valve adjust on this bike. Just saying. Life is too short!!

To each his own.  I, for one, find this type of work relaxing.
Title: Re: First Valve Adjustment / TB Sync
Post by: kzz1king on November 14, 2019, 07:36:14 am
I enjoy this type of work but I did find it a bit nerve racking. Challenging ones self  i s good for the soul though. I might do it again. Maybe .

To each his own.  I, for one, find this type of work relaxing.
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 14, 2019, 06:01:59 pm


For me, it not about money it was about wanting to know it was actually done correctly, within my control, and without any damage to anything.  But I am not kidding when I say I don't think I could go through that again.  And I really do caution people attempting this job to think carefully first.  It can take a LOT of time and there are a LOT of ways you can totally destroy the engine, plus it is very frustrating.
I think you grasp the jist of what I said, and to be truthful,  the total job first "go round", did span a few days, I really took the "time" to remove, and document it all, in my brain, and in photos; and as I am very particular, anal if you really want to know when it comes to things like this) a lot of time was spent on educating myself; didn't have to deal with broken bolts and such in mine, but the "actual" time in disassemble, inspect, adjust, re-install" along with doing extra's like routing vac lines for t/b synch (for future use, and anytime I want to check), cleaning, and looking closely at everything, really totaled about 12 "real working" hours... having never done it, and being one of the first to do it. The "wasted" time that accumulated over the multi day process, during allocation of parts (which wisely I refuted until I "KNEW" exactly what I needed, did accumulate, and add to the total process hours, but in reality, all the wrench turning, measuring, and re turning of the wrenches to completion, was a day and a half.. with beer breaks, and photos. Having said that, I walked into the house many times, and continued on with normal life, and working a 70 hr week at my Paying Job...
If you do it once, it's a p.i.t.a., second time, you know the short cuts... third time... it's like changing oil... well, not really, but it does become majorly simplified...

you did good.
I'll pat you on the back, and you should never be afraid to do it a second time. I have to do it again next fall.. and have no fear... Get a lift, it saves your back, is all I have to add....

Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: maxtog on November 14, 2019, 07:08:07 pm
and document it all, in my brain, and in photos;

Yeah, I really regret not having taken photos and notes.  But I felt rushed and with my friend there during half of it, I just didn't think about it.  I am usually good at that type of thing.[/quote]

Quote
you did good. I'll pat you on the back, and you should never be afraid to do it a second time. I have to do it again next fall.. and have no fear...

Well, I do have a poor memory, so maybe I will forget the trauma and stupidly dive in again one day.

Quote
Get a lift, it saves your back, is all I have to add....

Unfortunately, I have no room for such stuff.

I just put on the final fairing and do-dads and took a long second ride tonight (just got home).  It is just fantastic.  Now I have to "unlearn" some of the "compensating" behaviors I developed to deal with it running so poorly.  But I don't think that will take very long :)
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: Riverszzr on December 06, 2019, 01:18:16 pm
After reading all this, it kind of makes the $525 I charge seem way too cheap.......

 I have done 7 C14's this year and have another arriving this weekend........ Good likelyhood I have adjusted valves etc atleast 150 times on a C14 and I have yet to find one that hasn't needed atleast 8 of them adjusted, and some of these guys bring them in routinely every 15-20k, some are first timers bringing them @ 20k, 30k or even the most recent was 37k before he finally decided to get them done

the measurements the Op got don't surprise me for not having done them til 48k, the numbers he let them go out the door at do surprise me, why set them outside of the spec range and then you are already in there, why not spend another couple hours to change them again to get them actually correct?

Anyways.......

 I had a guy from PA drive all the way to MN to have his C14 get my major service tune this spring, he sat in the local hotel for 2 full days and nearly half of a third  (1pm check out, see he checked out and sat by their pool til about 2:30 when I picked him up) while I spent about 19 hours working on his bike over those 2+ days

The basic tune up stuff sure one can typically do in maybe 8 hrs (valves, TPS, sync, brake and clutch fluid flushed, oil/filter, plugs, air filter, final drive yada yada yada)
the major tune (pulling steering head, fork oil, all the rear suspension linkages, swingarm and wheel bearings to inspect clean and repack or change is far more involved and time consuming to do on top of the "normal" tune up stuff)

Anyways- glad to hear the OP got it back together despite a huge time investment and seemingly much stress...... maybe next time the $500ish plus parts will seem cheap in comparison (of course that broken engine bolt would have added some cost)
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: maxtog on December 06, 2019, 03:48:41 pm
the measurements the Op got don't surprise me for not having done them til 48k, the numbers he let them go out the door at do surprise me, why set them outside of the spec range and then you are already in there, why not spend another couple hours to change them again to get them actually correct?

My mechanic friend was intentionally targeting the loose side, knowing they would tighten again over time.  They weren't meant/planned to be out of spec, just be on the furthest acceptable on the loose side (instead of center), but a few intakes went slightly over.  Not ideal, but he believes it should be fine.  Theoretically, it should last longer in-spec.  Remember, we had to wait several days to get the shims.  We talked about waiting another entire week just to get 2 more that were ever so slightly better, but I was also concerned it wouldn't get finished.  The buckets were nearly all identical, so we had nothing else to swap around.

Quote
I have yet to find one that hasn't needed atleast 8 of them adjusted, and some of these guys bring them in routinely every 15-20k, some are first timers bringing them @ 20k, 30k or even the most recent was 37k before he finally decided to get them done

Yeah, I am beginning to think maybe some of those posts about people "needing no adjustment" were shady dealers ripping customers off (charging for a clearance check and not actually doing anything).  But who knows.
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: CDII on December 06, 2019, 06:18:07 pm
Congrats Max!
I've got two to maintain. It may be on my list for 2020.
Title: Re: First (and probably last) Valve Adjustment
Post by: strum on December 07, 2019, 09:00:40 am
Quote from: maxtog link=topic=24313.msg303635#msg303635 date=1575672521

Yeah, I am beginning to think [i
maybe[/i] some of those posts about people "needing no adjustment" were shady dealers ripping customers off (charging for a clearance check and not actually doing anything).  But who knows.

 I completely agree Max NO WAY will all the valves be in spec. Im at 17k and I sometimes let my rpms get over 5 grand  :o :o
  I bet if i pulled it apart its ready for some shim shim.