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Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: B.D.F. on March 13, 2020, 04:41:40 pm

Title: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 13, 2020, 04:41:40 pm
Went shopping at a local market today and had the cashier whisper to me, in fear, that when she sneezed she was afraid people would 'pounce' on her. Then went to a gas station and witnessed people (many??? All??? ) driving like mad people to and fro.

The stock market is down nearly 30%. And our President goes on national TV to tell us he has banned travel [to and from] Europe.

I would say that this is simply unbelievable but unfortunately, truth is stranger than fiction.

Keep it up, my fellow Homo Sapiens Sapiens, and we will be killing each other faster than any minor virus ever had a hope of doing......

Brian
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 13, 2020, 09:19:13 pm
It is apparently all about toilet paper
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Nosmo on March 14, 2020, 01:33:45 am
People are stupid.  Stupidity is dangerous. Do the math.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Poseidon on March 14, 2020, 02:57:17 am
It is apparently all about toilet paper

Still haven’t figured out why they need toilet paper for an upper respiratory infection. I guess they will buy Kleenex next time they have diarrhea
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 14, 2020, 04:44:20 am
This is just a guess but I'm thinking the majority of the population is scared that they'll be stuck in their homes without said paper.  They are also hoarding food and anything else they can get their hands on.  Just go to any Walmart, Cosco, BJ's, etc and see what's going on.  Fahget about buying hand sanitizer.  But in the spirit of capitalism, I bought 1 very large box of mechanics rubber gloves and would be willing to part with each pair for $10.  Virginia just closed schools until the end of the month.


I work out of the house so I don't go into the general population that much.  Best place to eat these days are the Asian restaurants as they are mostly empty...no waiting.  Crowds are down everywhere and it's possible that the Feds may have a limited shutdown looming.  All my meetings are going virtual now.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Nosmo on March 14, 2020, 10:59:57 am
Well, here's an a-hole who got the tables turned on him.  Thought he'd do a little profiteering and got caught.  This is why we need to bring back public flogging.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/he-has-17700-bottles-of-hand-sanitizer-and-nowhere-to-sell-them/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/he-has-17700-bottles-of-hand-sanitizer-and-nowhere-to-sell-them/)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 14, 2020, 11:15:42 am
Chicago and some other municipalities have passed bans on the transfers, of any kind (read: sales) of any firearms or ammunition: think about that for a moment.

Otherwise, there seems to be plenty of food on the shelves, at least at the local, smaller stores. Of course no toilet paper anywhere apparently.  ::)  That should not be a huge problem, we will just take showers every week instead of every other week- this should also help keep people at least 6 ft. away from us..... a two- fer.

Schools here also closed and this seems to be becoming the norm. from elementary schools right through universities. RI has banned any event that will gather more than 250 people in any single place. Not sure how that will apply to things like movie theaters. ??

Things may get, oh let's say mischievous with all the kids at home, bored and looking for things to do. But if they lose their connection into the neural net (the Internet), things are going to get much worse, much faster. Can we even imagine 20, 30 million kids w/out the little boxes from which their entire life flows? Gonna' be worse than NYC was in Ghostbusters.

The result is probably going to be something like 1,000 Americans killed by this bad cold that is going around, 100,000 Americans killed due to over- reaction and general idiotic behavior.

Brian
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on March 14, 2020, 11:46:39 am
Then went to a gas station and witnessed people (many??? All??? ) driving like mad people to and fro.

Well to be honest, that isn't a recent event. It's been that way for years. Brian you need to get a bike and go riding, it's been too long. You don't need a sport-tourer, just a used
naked upright model that will get you some local lean time. It will be therapeutic for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Aside from that, yeah you're probably right about all the rest. The over reaction/emotional response may kill more than the virus does. Still, on the bright side, millions now know how to properly
wash their hands that apparently didn't know before.   ::) ;D
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 14, 2020, 05:47:33 pm
Oh no, what I saw was faster / stupider / more careless / downright close to 'impactus surprisity' than I think I have ever witnessed before. Seriously, human I.Q.'s just dropped off by at least 20 points, at least where there are more than a couple of people.

And I am not upset in the least- I have learned to expect this kind of behavior. In fact, I expect it to continue on its downward spiral but am not worried about it. The Mrs. is home all of this week and that may be extended. We are fortunate in that both of us can / do work from home, though she usually goes into the office normally, with the current connectivity available, she can work from home indefinitely.

Brian

Well to honest, that isn't a recent event. It's been that way for years. Brian you need to get a bike and go riding, it's been too long. You don't need a sport-tourer, just a used
naked upright model that will get you some local lean time. It will be therapeutic for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Aside from that, yeah you're probably right about all the rest. The over reaction/emotional response may kill more than the virus does. Still, on the bright side, millions now know how to properly
wash their hands that apparently didn't know before.   ::) ;D
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Rick Hall on March 14, 2020, 09:13:18 pm
I'd hate to see a diarrhea virus break out right now. People be buying up all the nasal spray  :nuts:


Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 15, 2020, 07:48:02 am
It is apparently all about toilet paper

Still haven’t figured out why they need toilet paper for an upper respiratory infection. I guess they will buy Kleenex next time they have diarrhea

Are you telling me that stuffing TP up your nose doesn't prevent one from getting the virus? Had I known...

(https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/im-no-expert-on-covid-19-but-this-is-the-cure-literally-band.jpg)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: mellow yellow on March 15, 2020, 07:40:16 pm
It is apparently all about toilet paper
yea, I'm trying to figure out if I should stock up on the 1 or 2 ply.  ;D
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on March 16, 2020, 02:57:03 am
The USA doesn't have a monopoly on dumbf***s, we have plenty over here too. Many supermarkets have sold out of fresh meat (I assume it's going into home freezers), toilet paper, any form of soap (yes, even car shampoo is sold out), anything tinned, flour (I guess millions have suddenly decided to make their own bread), and so many other things. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't such a blatant demonstration of how selfish and stupid many people are.
There are NO shortages, just distribution issues caused by the panic buying idiots.
One local supermarket ordered 10 times it's normal TP delivery for 3 days running and now finally it actually has TP on the shelves as the locusts just can't find any more room to store it in their houses  :rotflmao:
Many local restaurants who previously didn't are now offering home deliveries as a way of keeping going and keeping their staff employed
Local bakeries and butchers are also seeing a boom in business, but once the panic wears off and the morons finally realise that what the trash-press/media/facebull told them was all a load of crap, those mom-and-pop shops are going to go out of business. Hopefully the sensible ones will have enough buffer to weather the storm, but I doubt if many do.
Here they are going to have to knife/beat each other to death which should at least slow the massacre down.  ::)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 16, 2020, 09:37:25 am
Ah, the major difference between the UK and US: we have started to pull firearms on each other without having to resort to stabbing and beating first...... Why not just go to the end solution to begin with?

My son lives in VA, w/in sight of a WalMart and apparently this morning a customer (and idiot- a person can be many things at one time) pulled a pistol on an employee after said employee seems to have given the "wrong" answer (something such as: 'Sorry, we are out of that'). No matter, they have whatever the customer wanted in jail I am sure.

For the record, this is a true story but told with sarcasm, I am firmly 2A myself.

Brian

The USA doesn't have a monopoly on dumbf***s, we have plenty over here too.

<snip>

Here they are going to have to knife/beat each other to death which should at least slow the massacre down.  ::)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 16, 2020, 03:50:23 pm
My son lives in VA, w/in sight of a WalMart and apparently this morning a customer (and idiot- a person can be many things at one time) pulled a pistol on an employee after said employee seems to have given the "wrong" answer (something such as: 'Sorry, we are out of that'). No matter, they have whatever the customer wanted in jail I am sure.

Wow.  Obviously a very illegal action, but what we don't know is if it was legal for that person to have and/or carry and/or conceal a gun in the first place.  Something the "mainstream media" seems to always conveniently leave out.  It seems, in the vast majority of cases, the answer was "no."  And so we are back to the circle (of those who don't obey existing laws won't obey additional laws).

Meanwhile, I am glad I have [legal] protection if things start to break down.  A hell of a lot more important than a year supply of toilet paper....  I always thought the trigger in this area would be a hurricane.  But I suppose a virus could do it, too.

Quote
For the record, this is a true story but told with sarcasm, I am firmly 2A myself.
:thumbs:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Nosmo on March 16, 2020, 07:29:27 pm
Re-post of my thoughts over on "the other forum":

We always have two weeks or so of food and supplies on hand.  We live right in the Washington State "hot zone", but no worries.

People are panicking due to all the psycho-babble scare crap on the news, those people excel at stirring up the $hit-pot.

People are stupid.

Stop flying.  Stop traveling.  Stay home.

This ain't "the big one".  That's still in our future.

Watch this movie to see how it turns out:

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=movie+panic+in+the+year+zero&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0RNdAaRYD3Y (https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=movie+panic+in+the+year+zero&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0RNdAaRYD3Y)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 17, 2020, 08:09:01 am
Just for 'fun' my wife and I watched Outbreak and Contagion last night.  :o

Contagion has a LOT of parallels as to the way things are currently going.

Outbreak did as well but it also threw in the stupidity of our country's leaders and that's a BIG parallel to what we've been experiencing, up until yesterday at least.     
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 17, 2020, 09:05:43 am
Anyone notice that pretty much all the stories about the virus features a picture of the thing?

Just in case you see it out in public, do NOT approach it!  ::)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 17, 2020, 11:12:49 am
Thanks.  I was on the lookout for that.  Haven't seen it yet.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 17, 2020, 03:59:38 pm
Just for 'fun' my wife and I watched Outbreak and Contagion last night.  :o

Contagion has a LOT of parallels as to the way things are currently going.

Outbreak did as well but it also threw in the stupidity of our country's leaders and that's a BIG parallel to what we've been experiencing, up until yesterday at least.   
What happened yesterday? You wake up from your TDS coma?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 17, 2020, 08:17:41 pm
TDS coma?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 17, 2020, 08:29:30 pm
TDS coma?

I assume it means "Trump Derangement Syndrome"
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 17, 2020, 08:44:14 pm
Well, let's keep that sort of thing to a minimum shall we?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 18, 2020, 06:25:26 am
This was going to be an exciting year for my wife and I, musically.

We have tickets to the New Orleans Jazz Fest, two weekends worth. Postponed till 'sometime' in the fall.

My son bought us tickets to see the Rolling Stones in Nashville. Postponed indefinitely.

Oh well.

Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 18, 2020, 12:08:51 pm
If we're not all dead in several weeks, things should be starting to look up.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on March 18, 2020, 12:24:36 pm
This was going to be an exciting year for my wife and I, musically.

We have tickets to the New Orleans Jazz Fest, two weekends worth. Postponed till 'sometime' in the fall.

My son bought us tickets to see the Rolling Stones in Nashville. Postponed indefinitely.

Oh well.
We were supposed to see Jeff Dunham on the 20th.  Not a lot of ANYTHING open in Nashville.  Even the bars on lower Broad have given in and agreed to close.   Over 250 events (concerts, meetings, conventions) postponed or cancelled in the near future.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 18, 2020, 02:21:36 pm
We will not all be dead in a 'few' weeks. But the virus will not have burned itself out either, depending by what you mean by 'few'.

Somehow, this whole thing got tagged with a two- week timespan; I think it was because schools were closed for one week, and the next week would be spring break. Hence, 'two weeks' of school closings and many seem to be using that as a timetable. But it does not and never did apply. This virus has a pretty long incubation period as well as also having a fairly long 'host active' phase. Those two things will combine to make this a fairly long- lasting virus in society. The really great part is that it has a fairly low mortality rate, at least in most groups of people.

I am not trying to spread gloom and doom. I am merely stating what I believe to be the situation. I am not in the medical field but can read an infection / morbidity curve and this one seems like it is going to be somewhat longer lasting than other, recent epidemics, and especially, pandemics. My sincere advice would be for people to calm down and settle in for what <might> be a bit of a longer ride than you may have initially expected.

On the bright side, there are some humorous parts to this situation; last night in a store with my wife, I coughed (fake coughed) and noticed many around me snap to attention. My wife joined in to them asses..... er, I mean the masses, and showed me the 'proper' way to cough, which she demonstrated by coughing into her arm, inside the elbow. I responded by grabbing her arm and coughing into the inside of her elbow. Apparently, that was not correct either..... I give up.  ;D

BTW: I am in two high- risk groups myself and so the gallows humor applies to me directly. Fair enough but I can still find the humor in the situation.

To my ZGGTR friends, I honestly wish you the very best success in the coming period of high stress. Not only for your survival of course but also that the situation is not too difficult on each / any of you regarding difficulties in getting through the coming weeks, or even months. Here is to wishing all of you and yours the very best possible experience going forward!

Brian (I think I am asymptomatic but the thermometer is behind me and I cannot read it.....)

If we're not all dead in several weeks, things should be starting to look up.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 18, 2020, 03:11:42 pm
We will not all be dead in a 'few' weeks. But the virus will not have burned itself out either, depending by what you mean by 'few'. [...] to make this a fairly long- lasting virus in society.

I expect it will never go away.  It is likely to be similar to our existing flus and colds, just mutating and all over, all the time.  We just have to hope warm weather helps to control it, so it will be "seasonal" like flus and colds.  And that, eventually, we will have hit-or-miss annual vaccinations (like with the flu).  I expect also that we will like hold on to some "partial" immunity between mutations (again, like the flu).  I am actually surprised we haven't been hit with something like this sooner.

Viruses are really annoying (like mosquitoes).  Ironically, without them, we (humans) would not exist, since they were an important part of evolution (through evolutionary pressure, natural selection, and organism mutation).  We even have segments of virus DNA integrated into our human genome.  Still, I think we have reached a point that I wouldn't shed a tear if they all just disappeared.  Science might actually come up with a "total virus solution" at some point.  But I wouldn't hold my breath for that being in our lifetimes.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Rick Hall on March 18, 2020, 05:22:34 pm
...
 I coughed (fake coughed) and noticed many around me snap to attention. My wife joined in to them asses..... er, I mean the masses, and showed me the 'proper' way to cough, which she demonstrated by coughing into her arm, inside the elbow. I responded by grabbing her arm and coughing into the inside of her elbow. Apparently, that was not correct either..... I give up.  ;D
...

That's why the run on canoe tickets. One person coughs, 50 people crap their pants.

Rick
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on March 19, 2020, 03:02:38 am
Corona viruses have been around forever. Look them up. There are books on them dating from 1996 and articles from even earlier. This one (Covid-19) is just one the latest variants and is a particularly nasty one due partly to it's long incubation period, and partly due to it's effect on human lungs. Chances are almost everyone on the planet has had a Corona virus disease at some point but in the media we only hear about the big ones like MERS (EMC/2012), SARS-CoV (2003), and now Covid-19. The Common Cold can be caused by certain Corona viruses, as well as by Rhino viruses and others.
Personally I think we should rename this one Covidiot-19 as it seems to have shown everyone just how idiotic many of our fellow humans are.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 19, 2020, 07:00:49 am
If we're not all dead in several weeks, things should be starting to look up.

So, what you're saying is that if things don't get worse they'll get better?   :o
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 19, 2020, 08:26:29 am
Yep...logic at it's best.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 19, 2020, 08:29:54 am
Corona viruses have been around forever. Look them up. There are books on them dating from 1996 and articles from even earlier. This one (Covid-19) is just one the latest variants and is a particularly nasty one due partly to it's long incubation period, and partly due to it's effect on human lungs. Chances are almost everyone on the planet has had a Corona virus disease at some point but in the media we only hear about the big ones like MERS (EMC/2012), SARS-CoV (2003), and now Covid-19. The Common Cold can be caused by certain Corona viruses, as well as by Rhino viruses and others.
Personally I think we should rename this one Covidiot-19 as it seems to have shown everyone just how idiotic many of our fellow humans are.


1960's actually.  We have plenty of idiots on our side in Florida playing while we all burn.  I think that they should put them in camps and not let them out of Florida for several weeks.  Possibly enlist the idiots to take care of the rest of us for free.  They don't realize that they can bring that sh*t back to us in the rest of the country.  Fn morons.   
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 19, 2020, 09:03:47 am

1960's actually.  We have plenty of idiots on our side in Florida playing while we all burn.  I think that they should put them in camps and not let them out of Florida for several weeks.  Possibly enlist the idiots to take care of the rest of us for free.  They don't realize that they can bring that sh*t back to us in the rest of the country.  Fn morons.

They know they just don't care. Selfish assholes.

Plus, and you know how much I hate to bring politics into this, there's so much conflicting information coming from our leaders that some people don't know what to think.

Hell, just this morning in Illinois, we have politicians questioning our governor's decision to close down schools and restaurants/bars. These same politicians are questioning what the expert doctors are telling us. When asked directly why they would question what the experts are saying. Their answers all start out with the same words, "I'm not a doctor but..."   :o

What do all these politicians that I mentioned above have in common? They are all from the same party. Do I have to tell you which party that is? I'm sure that I don't...
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 19, 2020, 10:09:28 am
As you hate to bring politics into this.....why do it?  Keep it in the Arena, please.  And prune out the politics stuff.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 19, 2020, 02:31:23 pm
It does not matter if it 'goes away' or not- the virus will 'burn itself out' in any event. Eventually enough people will have been infected and recovered, combined with fewer and fewer infect-able souls, that it can no longer spread. This is what happens to all major infections that turn into epidemics or pandemics- they just burn out. Sometimes, the burn- out is truly devastating, such as the bubonic plague but it always works. The other method is when there are not enough infections to produce sufficient numbers of infect- able people, such as polio, which always returns to a sufficiently non- immune population to cause another outbreak (polio was notorious for returning each summer for decades).

The only other way to end the infection rate increase is to cut the virus off with inoculation, again such as in the case of polio- polio is alive and well, more than ready to infect any number of hosts but because <almost> all of the potential hosts have been inoculated, the virus does not cause an epidemic. That said, we are now again seeing what I would call 'mini epidemics' in places such as Oregon where a significant (and too large to provide heard immunity) portion of the population has refused to inoculate.

It is all a numbers situation, or better yet, a mathematical curve situation. Which is why those in gov't are always talking about 'flattening the curve'; we cannot eliminate the disease but we can blunt the speed and percentage of the population that it impacts. And they are correct- flattening the bell curve is really all that can be done, and it will work IF we, as a society, work to force the infection to go in that direction. And at the moment, it looks like we might just make it and blunt the worst of this current virus although of course it is causing great economic / social impact along the way. But if we choose to do nothing, the virus will still cause great economic and social impact but leave all of us in a far worse position afterward. This virus is going to cause a very significant impact on our economy, the only choice we really have is if we want to have it end with a relatively intact society or one that has been devastated by it. We have seen all of this before, the best example being the "Spanish Flu" pandemic of 1918: some US cities were so decimated with this virus that the very fabric of society itself fell apart.

Brian

I expect it will never go away.  It is likely to be similar to our existing flus and colds, just mutating and all over, all the time.  We just have to hope warm weather helps to control it, so it will be "seasonal" like flus and colds.  And that, eventually, we will have hit-or-miss annual vaccinations (like with the flu).  I expect also that we will like hold on to some "partial" immunity between mutations (again, like the flu).  I am actually surprised we haven't been hit with something like this sooner.

Viruses are really annoying (like mosquitoes).  Ironically, without them, we (humans) would not exist, since they were an important part of evolution (through evolutionary pressure, natural selection, and organism mutation).  We even have segments of virus DNA integrated into our human genome.  Still, I think we have reached a point that I wouldn't shed a tear if they all just disappeared.  Science might actually come up with a "total virus solution" at some point.  But I wouldn't hold my breath for that being in our lifetimes.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Rick Hall on March 20, 2020, 02:17:15 am
In lighter news, which is subjective, Prince Albert II Of Monaco Tests Positive For Coronavirus.

You can now rightfully assume that Prince Albert is in the can.

Rick
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 20, 2020, 05:00:21 am
In lighter news, which is subjective, Prince Albert II Of Monaco Tests Positive For Coronavirus.

You can now rightfully assume that Prince Albert is in the can.

Rick
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on March 20, 2020, 08:57:18 am
In lighter news, which is subjective, Prince Albert II Of Monaco Tests Positive For Coronavirus.
You can now rightfully assume that Prince Albert is in the can.
Rick
Jeez Rick, ya getting bored up there in them thar mountains?  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 20, 2020, 12:11:45 pm
In other news, moving toward the left in the I.Q. bell curve.....

Went to the liquor store today (with everyone else w/in a 30 mile radius apparently.....), and picked up a case of Corona Light for the Mrs. (she likes the occasional beer and will not drink anything but that brand and type). At the checkout, the cashier leans over and says to the beer 'Oh, someone is finally taking you home!'. ???? So I ask what that is about. ? She says no one will buy Corona beer because of the virus.  ?? I still do not get it? (sorry, logic gets in the way of my mental prowess sometimes) She says that people are saying Corona beer CAUSES the Corona virus. Ah, now I get it- people are really stupid!

FUBAR

Brian
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MtnRider on March 20, 2020, 02:09:48 pm
Apparently people are considering memes as PSAs now...    :banghead:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 20, 2020, 05:59:52 pm
Personally I consider Corona a 'trash' beer but for those that like it, I would think it should be on sale if it's not selling.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 21, 2020, 07:04:42 am
My wife and I risked it yesterday and went grocery shopping. Locally there's really only two stores, Super Walmart and Aldi.

Aldi is always the first stop and then whatever we can't get at Aldi we pick up at Wallys.

It was a fucking zoo!!!

We both wore medical masks and gloves. An overabundance of caution? Better safe that sorry. A few people in the stores also wore masks and we had several people ask us where we got our masks. I 'acquired' a box of medical grade masks several years ago at work. 

Lots of stuff was sold out but we did manage to get some TP at Aldi, the last package on the shelf. When we arrived at Aldi there weren't many people there but right after we arrived the place got flooded with folks. I heard later that there was a fake text going around that POTUS was going to shut down everything! I wonder if that prompted the rush? We managed to get just about everything we needed.

Then off to Wallys. Now that place was crazy! No bread, no flour, no sugar, they had TP but it was being rationed, no frozen fries, very little fresh meat or frozen veggies.

Never in my life did I imagine that I would see something like this in our country, never.    :'(
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 21, 2020, 07:47:45 am
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89813966_2774147366015511_4854045048641159168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=JdB3jmblaXcAX-9NO2v&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=8ecab4f6ffe47ec89ec7caea1786e90f&oe=5E9A3CDF)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 21, 2020, 09:21:05 am
The Governor (RI) just extended the normal 7 day wait to transfer a firearm to 30 days. Lots and lots of people trying to buy firearms and ammunition, wiping out local stock as well as creating havoc (or so they claim) at local P.D.'s processing the applications.

But the people that this is making really cranky are heavy 2A supporters in the first place, and we already have  said hardware. The push is now on for the November elections though to be honest, I do not know if it will really make much difference in such a 'blue' state anyway.

In other COVID news, people are progressively losing driving skills as this thing progresses. It is getting a bit scary just driving out there, never mind negotiating full parking lots and trying to find a parking space. The Corona virus has symptoms similar to the usual strains of flu but fear and panic induced by the Corona virus seems to inhibit brain cells from working....

:-(

Brian
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Hooligan on March 24, 2020, 05:19:42 am
Well, South Africa is officially under "lock down" as from Friday 2020/03/27. This means I have to go sit at home without pay for three weeks.

Not allowed out of the house unless for medical emergencies or shopping for food. Only 1 person allowed in a vehicle, unless it is a minor, or for a medical emergency. The passenger must be seated in the rear, and both must wear face masks. The army has also been enlisted to assist the cops in performing their duties.

Restaurants and bars will be closed for business, and the restaurants may only do food deliveries, under strict conditions.

This is gonna be a long ass three weeks, where I'm not even allowed to ride my bike. Can't even go to the motorcycle shop in order to buy parts for servicing my bike.....

No alcohol sales allowed during this time either..... So it is going to be a "dry" three weeks as well :banghead:....

Travel bans have also been put in place, so you are not even allowed to visit your relatives in other towns/cities, or have friends over for a braai (BBQ for those not in the RSA)....

Thanks Corona, I finally get to take my full three weeks leave, but have top stay at home......
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on March 24, 2020, 06:05:28 am
Lockdown here too now.
It seems the stupids couldn't understand "We advise you to stay at home" so now it's "STAY AT HOME STUPID  :censored: ERS OR WE WILL JAIL YOU!"
Nothing like a global pandemic to really drive home just how stupid and selfish many people are. <sigh>
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 24, 2020, 06:43:13 am
Well, South Africa is officially under "lock down" as from Friday 2020/03/27. This means I have to go sit at home without pay for three weeks.

Not allowed out of the house unless for medical emergencies or shopping for food. Only 1 person allowed in a vehicle, unless it is a minor, or for a medical emergency. The passenger must be seated in the rear, and both must wear face masks. The army has also been enlisted to assist the cops in performing their duties.

Restaurants and bars will be closed for business, and the restaurants may only do food deliveries, under strict conditions.

This is gonna be a long ass three weeks, where I'm not even allowed to ride my bike. Can't even go to the motorcycle shop in order to buy parts for servicing my bike.....

No alcohol sales allowed during this time either..... So it is going to be a "dry" three weeks as well :banghead:....

Travel bans have also been put in place, so you are not even allowed to visit your relatives in other towns/cities, or have friends over for a braai (BBQ for those not in the RSA)....

Thanks Corona, I finally get to take my full three weeks leave, but have top stay at home......

WOW.... REAL BUMMER DUDE.... how's it feel to live in the land, that introduced..... EEEEEEEE-Booo-Lah....?
anyways, we got deer in th back yard, and the B-B-Q is smoking hot right now.. mmmmm , quick question, what do Rhino's, and Elephants actually taste like?, and don't say they taste like Chicken....  sorry, I just woke up to make coffee for my wife, it's her birthday...I built a still, for her, so we can always have booze... Didn't mean to be a debbie downer, just joking around, so laugh and enjoy life.....


oh, send us all the spare Krugerrand's... people here don't want to handle paper money any more.. like my plastic charge card won't hold germs on it.... hehehhehhhehhhe
aaaaaahhhhhh -chooooo

hey, stay safe, stay healthy, and use social distancing as your pal, peace bro,

https://youtu.be/3nlm56AgJvM
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 24, 2020, 09:30:19 am
I'm re-reading an interesting book that I purchased a few years ago 'The Great Influenza' by John M. Barry.  Chronicles The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (1918).  That flu kind of resembled Ebola in some respects.  It's thought to have killed 100 million people world wide.  You'll never believe where it's thought to have started from....


Insert answer here...


If you are 70 or over, you may want to bypass Texas.  The Lt. Governor there is recommending that people over 70 bite the bullet for the economy or maybe I'm just misinterpreting what he said.  Yeah, that's it.  No one can be that callous or misinformed.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MtnRider on March 24, 2020, 09:49:43 am
Damn, Hooligan, that's tough. Good luck to you & yours.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 24, 2020, 03:27:48 pm
I'm re-reading an interesting book that I purchased a few years ago 'The Great Influenza' by John M. Barry.  Chronicles The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (1918).  That flu kind of resembled Ebola in some respects.  It's thought to have killed 100 million people world wide.  You'll never believe where it's thought to have started from....

Insert answer here...

The origin is actually unknown because there was not enough data or good record keeping.  Many believe it was France, others America, China, or Austria.  But most experts agree it was not Spain (so it really wasn't the "Spanish Flu").
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 24, 2020, 06:29:05 pm
I'm re-reading an interesting book that I purchased a few years ago 'The Great Influenza' by John M. Barry.  Chronicles The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (1918).  That flu kind of resembled Ebola in some respects.  It's thought to have killed 100 million people world wide.  You'll never believe where it's thought to have started from....


Insert answer here...


.

Not quite sure of the "accuracy" of that written Novel, but factually it began in China, and was spread to U.S. troops in a French "hospital" where soldiers were recovering from terrible wounds.. why France? I dunno... they had good food, but crappy doctors... I guess it was because France was the major "central point" of safety for American soldiers, and deployment... as we didn't have huge jet planes, that could fly to China, or much else in the world.... rapidly.
https://www.mphonline.org/worst-pandemics-in-history/ (https://www.mphonline.org/worst-pandemics-in-history/)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Hooligan on March 25, 2020, 07:05:33 am
WOW.... REAL BUMMER DUDE.... how's it feel to live in the land, that introduced..... EEEEEEEE-Booo-Lah....?
anyways, we got deer in th back yard, and the B-B-Q is smoking hot right now.. mmmmm , quick question, what do Rhino's, and Elephants actually taste like?, and don't say they taste like Chicken....  sorry, I just woke up to make coffee for my wife, it's her birthday...I built a still, for her, so we can always have booze... Didn't mean to be a debbie downer, just joking around, so laugh and enjoy life.....


oh, send us all the spare Krugerrand's... people here don't want to handle paper money any more.. like my plastic charge card won't hold germs on it.... hehehhehhhehhhe
aaaaaahhhhhh -chooooo

hey, stay safe, stay healthy, and use social distancing as your pal, peace bro,

https://youtu.be/3nlm56AgJvM

Firstly happy hatch day to your Mrs from the RSA please?

Secondly, I live in the city, so hunting is out of the question.

Well MOB, Ebola was started in mid to northern africa if I'm not mistaken , so for a change it wasn't the RSA's fault...LOL

As to answer your question regarding Rhino and elephants, I can't afford to shoot them, so I've never tasted it. I would have to sell my house in order to afford one of them animals, so sorry, can't help there.... I have had Ostrich though, and it quite tasty if prepared correctly. Crocodile is not bad either, just saying....

Had to make a run to NBS (Nearest Bottle Store) yesterday, and stocked up on some provisions for the next three weeks. I reckon a case of beers and a bottle of whiskey a week should suffice.... Luckily I still have enough venison in tyhe chest freezers to last me a month or two. Shot a warthog 2 weeks ago, and made some cheesegrillers (cheese sossages). Just have to put them though the smoker still, and I'll have plenty time to do that....

As for the Kruger rand, sorry once again. I don't own a single KR  myself..... outta luck there unfortunately.


But yes, good luck to you all during these times, and your advise is heeded MOB, thank you.

on a more serious note, I see there are some guys in the townships that has said that they won't go shopping at the stores, but will attack white owned homes and just take what they need. Well guess what? I have have a 9mm parrabellum, 300WinMag, and a 303 British rifle and plenty of ammo. They are welcome to come try their luck, as i will not allow my family's lives to be endangered....

I'm so tired of all the racism and reverse racism in this country.

Every time we make one step forward in coming together as a "rainbow nation" some m*****f***ing a****le idiot has to go srew s**t up and start the crap all over again.


Anyway, rant over. I will be keeping a low profile the next three weeks.

Y'all be safe out there....

Respect,
H
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Hooligan on March 25, 2020, 07:19:23 am
PS, I'll have so much time on my hands now, I might as well clean and re-arrange my garage...... :banghead: :banghead:

Then service the ZX14, as just got the oil and filters needed today (panic bought so I don't get too bored at home). That bike is gonna look better than it did the day it rolled off the showroom floor..... :thumbs: :thumbs:

But  I really feel sorry for some guys I know, that has been putting off home chores, and telling their wives:' I'll get to it when I get the time". Well guess what, you got three consecutive weeks now you SOB's..... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 25, 2020, 07:51:50 am
Rich, that book is not a novel by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 25, 2020, 12:38:09 pm
Yes, the "Spanish Flu". Nasty virus, not nearly as deadly as hemorrhagic fever (such as Ebola) but far, far more transmittable. A fascinating piece of our (human) history.

Best data shows it started in an army camp in Kansas, US of A, and was sent along to France from there. At some point, the virus mutated (became a different strain) and that was the version that spread over many parts of the world with returning WWI veterans of the western front.

Read a book about that virus and its effects during a particularly virulent outbreak in a major US city- it was either Baltimore or Philadelphia. Not a 'fun' read but absolutely fascinating in a clinical kind of way as it showed the steady breakdown of the very society in that city. Bodies in the streets 'cause there was no one to remove them. All city systems overwhelmed, many stopped and in the end, it nearly brought the lifestyle all the way back to the stone age.

The Spanish flu may have been the deadliest but only because it happened so late in history and there were a lot of us by that time. The bubonic plague, for example, was actually far deadlier with regard to the percentage of population killed and the degree to which many parts of the world were effected.

Bonus trivia: the word quarantine literally means 40 days. That is how long ships coming into Italian harbors were isolated and not allowed to off- load anything, to see if there was plague aboard.

Brian

I'm re-reading an interesting book that I purchased a few years ago 'The Great Influenza' by John M. Barry.  Chronicles The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (1918).  That flu kind of resembled Ebola in some respects.  It's thought to have killed 100 million people world wide.  You'll never believe where it's thought to have started from....


Insert answer here...


If you are 70 or over, you may want to bypass Texas.  The Lt. Governor there is recommending that people over 70 bite the bullet for the economy or maybe I'm just misinterpreting what he said.  Yeah, that's it.  No one can be that callous or misinformed.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 25, 2020, 03:46:39 pm
PS, I'll have so much time on my hands now, I might as well clean and re-arrange my garage...... :banghead: :banghead:

Then service the ZX14, as just got the oil and filters needed today (panic bought so I don't get too bored at home). That bike is gonna look better than it did the day it rolled off the showroom floor..... :thumbs: :thumbs:

But  I really feel sorry for some guys I know, that has been putting off home chores, and telling their wives:' I'll get to it when I get the time". Well guess what, you got three consecutive weeks now you SOB's..... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Hooligan, since I may be having a bit of excess time myself what can you tell me about biltong?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Hooligan on March 26, 2020, 12:03:02 am
Hooligan, since I may be having a bit of excess time myself what can you tell me about biltong?

Well what ya wanna know about biltong GP? You guys may know it as jerky....

Tell you what I'll do.......

I'll make some biltong over my "rest period", and take some pics while I'm doing it. I'll send you some detailed instruction sheet with pics on how to make your own.

You can make it with any beef or venison, although I haven't tried it with Ostrich or Crocodile yet.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 26, 2020, 05:12:54 am
I'm re-reading an interesting book that I purchased a few years ago 'The Great Influenza' by John M. Barry.  Chronicles The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (1918).  That flu kind of resembled Ebola in some respects.  It's thought to have killed 100 million people world wide.  You'll never believe where it's thought to have started from....


Insert answer here...


If you are 70 or over, you may want to bypass Texas.  The Lt. Governor there is recommending that people over 70 bite the bullet for the economy or maybe I'm just misinterpreting what he said.  Yeah, that's it.  No one can be that callous or misinformed.

No misinterpretation on your part Jim, that's what he said.

The lieutenant governor of Texas argued in an interview on Fox News Monday night that the United States should go back to work, saying grandparents like him don’t want to sacrifice the country’s economy during the coronavirus crisis.

Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, 69, made the comments on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight” after President Donald Trump said he wanted to reopen the country for business in weeks, not months.

Patrick also said the elderly population, who the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said are more at risk for COVID-19, can take care of themselves and suggested that grandparents wouldn’t want to sacrifice their grandchildren’s economic future. 

“No one reached out to me and said, ‘as a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?’” Patrick said. “And if that’s the exchange, I’m all in.” 
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 26, 2020, 02:47:32 pm
Well what ya wanna know about biltong GP? You guys may know it as jerky....

Tell you what I'll do.......

I'll make some biltong over my "rest period", and take some pics while I'm doing it. I'll send you some detailed instruction sheet with pics on how to make your own.

You can make it with any beef or venison, although I haven't tried it with Ostrich or Crocodile yet.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 26, 2020, 02:50:04 pm
Well what ya wanna know about biltong GP? You guys may know it as jerky....

Tell you what I'll do.......

I'll make some biltong over my "rest period", and take some pics while I'm doing it. I'll send you some detailed instruction sheet with pics on how to make your own.

You can make it with any beef or venison, although I haven't tried it with Ostrich or Crocodile yet.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

I was under the impression the the process was different than jerky. Looking forward to seeing what you do. Thanks
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 26, 2020, 04:43:19 pm
Me too!
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 26, 2020, 05:43:56 pm
Me too!

Do we need to break it out of the disease thread?  ::)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 26, 2020, 06:28:50 pm

Do we need to break it out of the disease thread?  ::)

LOL- Don't ask me... I think eating meat *is* a disease :)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 26, 2020, 07:12:14 pm
LOL- Don't ask me... I think eating meat *is* a disease :)

You might be right...kinda like being short.   8)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 26, 2020, 08:28:03 pm
Basically in Open, I don't care if it's on topic or not or which way it bends (easy boys)(that's for you, Brian) as long as it stays civil.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on March 27, 2020, 08:38:22 am
Originally I had high hopes for here in Texas, but no longer. I thought that maybe after what has been in the news about New York and more recently Louisiana that people here would have their eyes opened. Instead it seems they have their heads in the sand, or perhaps between their lower cheeks. I go to a restaurant to pick up an online order and get in the vehicle line approaching the entrance where they have a desk and awning cover over a bunch of employees. I roll down the passenger window and an employee standing a good 5 feet away asks my name. I give it to her and she assigns me a parking spot which I go and park in. The parking spots are in four rows and the numbered ones are all spread out with one unnumbered one in between. I'm thinking "cool" these people seem to know what they are doing. Then my order comes out but she wants to hand it to me through the driver's side window. I point to the passenger side, then she says "if the window doesn't work then open the door" again I say "no" and point to the passenger side where the window is already open. She gives me a look and then walks over there and puts the order through the window and sets it on the seat. She walks back to the restaurant giving me a look again like I'm the weirdo. I guess she thinks we're doing all this because we want to be at eye level and face to face about 12-18 inches apart? Normally for online take out I don't tip very generously, after all, I did most of the work. However in this instance, knowing that business is down, I tipped online at 20%. As I drove away I regretted it.

The next day I go to the grocery store where I've signed up for an online order and parking lot delivery. I call from the lot and tell them what numbered spot I'm in and my order number. While I'm waiting for my order to come out I notice two women sitting about 3 feet apart at an outside bistro table drinking lemonade or some such as they face each other gabbing away. Then I see two guys coming out of the store walking about a foot away from each other grocery bags in each hand having a conversation. I'm thinking about the social distancing of 6 feet and I assume they are a gay couple doing their shopping, just then they stop and face each other and set down their groceries to shake hands before each turns and goes to separate vehicles. The girl comes out with the groceries and I'm glad that my having the rear hatch already open has made her think that is where I wanted her to load them. Which she does, however she then walks up to about 10 inches from my window and wants to hand me the paperwork, I yell through the glass to just put it in the back with the groceries. She frowns a bit and then does just that.
Am I the one that's clueless here?

Why is it the folks on TV telling us that we need to social distance 6 feet from each other (national or local doesn't seem to matter) often do it from a stage where people are all crammed together behind them to ensure they are all in the camera shot? To top that off, many of them in the back are constantly touching their faces!
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 27, 2020, 09:05:56 am
I'm very glad that here in Illinois we have a governor that took this crisis seriously right from the outset. JB shut the state down before the **** completely hit the fan.

So far no CV cases here in the county we live in, nor in two of the three adjacent counties.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 27, 2020, 02:58:22 pm
I think this is a matter of opinion (not about you being clueless, about what is 'safe interaction'  ;) ).

Social distancing is great but it is not 'the fix'. If anyone along the supply line of your orders is carrying the contagion, it is almost certainly on your food / groceries. Which I assume you will handle directly as soon as you get home. The only way to maintain real, 100% 'social distancing' is to also break the chain with anything handled by ANY other human with a period long enough to make sure the virus that may (and certainly will be in some cases) be on the packaging / products you take possession of. Are you getting mail (post for the Limeys (that is for you, Jim) )? Do you wait at least 9 days after the mail is delivered? If not, you are at some risk of inert material transfer through objects.

The point is that it is almost impossible to truly isolate ourselves. It is the same as doing everything we can to prevent motorcycle accidents- we can do whatever we want and as much as we want but the risk is never eliminated as long as one rides a motorcycle. So by refusing to allow strangers (and perhaps even friends?) into a six food space around you, you reduce but do not eliminate your chances of contracting this virus.... or even any other transmittable disease. BTW- wouldn't it be ironical (a favorite word) to contract something like typhoid in the middle of this COVID outbreak? Back to the point- you can swing the odds but not stack the deck to be 100% assured of avoiding the disease while still living anything like a normal, first- world life. Same goes for getting the virus as well; you could do anything (easy boys) regarding contact with an infected person and still not be 100% guaranteed of contracting the virus either.

So no, I do not think you are clueless but I do think you may be putting a bit too much emphasis on a single rule of behavior. We (Andrea and I) go to stores and shop pretty normally and I fully understand the risk that I / we could contract the virus for either the people around us as well as handling the food packaging, which may well be contaminated from almost anyone along the line that handled the product as well as previous customers who may have handled the package(s) and be infected. BTW, the same goes for washing our hands- it is a great step in the right direction to reduce the presence of the virus on our hands but it is NOT 100% assured that we have removed all of the potential virus. Again, a percentage will be washed away but some virus will be left. So probably a good idea but certainly not any kind of guarantee that you just made COVID disappear from our paws.

All of that said, I believe we should all do what we think best for ourselves and others, within the confines of whatever rules are in place, of course. If you choose to maintain some physical distance between yourself and others, that is certainly a sensible and reasonable choice. But it still comes with risk of infection as long as you are passing inert things between yourself and others. So each of us has to judge what is a reasonable mode of behavior given the circumstances. All in my opinion, of course.

On a different note, it looks like China has reached 'burnout' of virus transmission and should now be on the downside of infection rates (though not illness / death rates yet perhaps). It looks like Italy has also reached the 'knee of the curve'. The US is still in the climb though with no indications that we are peaking, at least from what I have seen and can understand from the data I have been able to find. This one is gonna' sting and we still cannot tell how much it is going to swell before it goes away....

Just be thankful that Mary Ann and I are not in TX, 'cause should we all happen to meet up, you know I could not resist that special hug I have.   :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Brian (COVID free as a boy can be..... I think)


<snip>

Am I the one that's clueless here?

Why is it the folks on TV telling us that we need to social distance 6 feet from each other (national or local doesn't seem to matter) often do it from a stage where people are all crammed together behind them to ensure they are all in the camera shot? To top that off, many of them in the back are constantly touching their faces!
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on March 27, 2020, 03:16:25 pm
Just be thankful that Mary Ann and I are not in TX, 'cause should we all happen to meet up, you know I could not resist that special hug I have.   :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Oh groan.  :P
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 27, 2020, 03:25:16 pm
Social distancing is great but it is not 'the fix' [...]The point is that it is almost impossible to truly isolate ourselves.[...]

Agreed, completely.

This is all about risk mitigation.  Just halving the number of interactions you have, will greatly lower exposure.  Doesn't mean we all have to go insane about everything.

When I go shopping now, I go half as frequently, make absolutely sure not to touch my face, and when I get to my car and lose the cart, I disinfect my hands (if possible), wash immediately when I get home, unload, and wash hands again.  No mask.  No veering around other carts by 6 feet.  No gloves.  Just some common sense precautions.  Canceled dinner meetings and other meetings with friends.  Not wearing a mask at work either, but washing hands more frequently (and we have few visitors there).

I might have cut my transmission and reception odds by at least 2/3rds.  If everyone did only that, it would probably be "enough" to slow it tremendously.  Probably your biggest risk would be kids with you- they touch EVERYTHING, continuously, and their hands are in their mouth/nose/eyes all over the place, all the time, no matter what you do :)

Could it be on a box or something that I brought home?  Could be.  Would it survive the journey, and I touch the same spot, and it somehow get to an appropriate site on me, and then get into me, and be enough and viable to infect?  Could be.  The odds are pretty low.  Especially compared to touching a shopping cart, door knob, railing, faucet level, or light switch...  Those I treat quite differently.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: lather on March 27, 2020, 04:22:12 pm
t my alarm and got up early to shop our local markets senior hour 7-8. They would only let in 25 at a time.  The market had hand washing stations out side and a antibact wipes dispensor inside. I arrived at 7:05 and was number 28. Got in and grabbed a wad of wipes to use to handle everything. Got my stuff home and proceeded to unpack the goods wiping everything down with Lysol spray.
 
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on March 28, 2020, 08:49:58 am
t my alarm and got up early to shop our local markets senior hour 7-8. They would only let in 25 at a time.  The market had hand washing stations out side and a antibact wipes dispensor inside. I arrived at 7:05 and was number 28. Got in and grabbed a wad of wipes to use to handle everything. Got my stuff home and proceeded to unpack the goods wiping everything down with Lysol spray.
 

Great job Bob! What were they out of that you wanted? Anything?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: lather on March 28, 2020, 09:08:34 am
No tp or dis8nfectant
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 28, 2020, 01:10:35 pm
Quite a few reports of New Yorkers leaving New York and possibly taking Covid-19 with them.  The only way to contain this is to do what the Chinese did and shut the cities off.  They'll be more hot spots developing for sure now.  Saw a FL licensed vehicle across the street and I know damn well it wasn't there a few days ago.  It's either coming back from NY or escaping FL. 


I really don't blame these people for leaving but it's going to make this last a lot longer than Easter.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 28, 2020, 02:39:44 pm
Yep, the wiping down of purchased materials, as well as wiping off everything (such as can be done) before touching it all adds together and decreases the odds yet more that you will be infected.

Just talked to my son and granddaughter (such as one 'talks' with a toddler) and they are on the far other side of this behavior, much less serious about COVID than even I am. They let the child run around, touching anyone / anything and everyone finds it cute apparently (hey, she IS adorable.... seriously). Personally, I do not agree with this behavior but my son and DIL are in their 30's and I cannot do anything about their behavior or attitude toward this situation. I have made suggestions but they fall on deaf ears. Such is the nature of a free society. ?? ??

Brian

t my alarm and got up early to shop our local markets senior hour 7-8. They would only let in 25 at a time.  The market had hand washing stations out side and a antibact wipes dispensor inside. I arrived at 7:05 and was number 28. Got in and grabbed a wad of wipes to use to handle everything. Got my stuff home and proceeded to unpack the goods wiping everything down with Lysol spray.
 
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: blue14 on March 28, 2020, 02:54:44 pm
Quite a few reports of New Yorkers leaving New York and possibly taking Covid-19 with them.  The only way to contain this is to do what the Chinese did and shut the cities off.  They'll be more hot spots developing for sure now.  Saw a FL licensed vehicle across the street and I know damn well it wasn't there a few days ago.  It's either coming back from NY or escaping FL. 

Those are known as HALF BACKS....
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 28, 2020, 03:06:24 pm
It is not legal for the fed. gummit to shut down 'travel', and I do not believe we will see anything like that on the federal level. If we do, it will be followed by lawsuits and end up in the Supreme Court. Travel is a constitutional right and as such, is extremely touchy to try and control or stop.

We may see some quarantining on a state level though that is not legal either (same reason). That said, we have seen it before during the more extreme over- reactions to the Ebola "outbreak" that happen a few years back. The governor of NJ tried to prevent the travel of a disease- free citizen but was so clumsy about it that she simply drove out of NJ and back to ME. And as we know now, there were exactly zero deaths from Ebola transmitted to someone while in the US. As they say, nothing exceeds like excess :-)

Just to be clear, COVID is very, very different than Ebola; COVID is fairly easy to spread but has a relatively low mortality rate. Ebola is much less easily transferred but has an astonishingly high mortality rate. The same behavior / attitudes cannot be used for those two different viruses, or at least certainly should not be used interchangeably.

Brian

Quite a few reports of New Yorkers leaving New York and possibly taking Covid-19 with them.  The only way to contain this is to do what the Chinese did and shut the cities off.  They'll be more hot spots developing for sure now.  Saw a FL licensed vehicle across the street and I know damn well it wasn't there a few days ago.  It's either coming back from NY or escaping FL. 


I really don't blame these people for leaving but it's going to make this last a lot longer than Easter.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 29, 2020, 10:39:38 am
(https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=328255&d=1584405851)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 29, 2020, 12:06:48 pm
(https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=328255&d=1584405851)
?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 29, 2020, 01:25:37 pm
We had our first confirmed case, at work :(  This is the first person I know or someone I know knows.
She is now in the hospital.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: T Cro ® on March 29, 2020, 05:35:03 pm
We had our first confirmed case, at work :(  This is the first person I know or someone I know knows.
She is now in the hospital.

That has to be worrisome... The county I live in Tenn is Union it had its first confirmed case yesterday and that's worrisome enough. I think by the time this is over we will all know someone who has been touched by this. The company I work for is trying to keep our tugs and barges running as we move essential products including gas, oil, chemicals and cement. We were given special instructions and traveling papers in case we ran into trouble with crossing state lines etc while getting to work. Once on board we are not allowed to get off the vessel and no one is allowed on board without extra special reasoning. 
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 29, 2020, 07:49:05 pm
Don't know if you are aware of this site but if you get depressed easily don't click on it..


https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 30, 2020, 07:22:51 am
?

Sorry, I'm trying to put a little humor into this bad situation. Or is it that you don't get the joke?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 30, 2020, 04:00:05 pm
Sorry, I'm trying to put a little humor into this bad situation. Or is it that you don't get the joke?

The link is broken or restricted, so we all see nothing but a broken link icon.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on March 30, 2020, 05:13:24 pm
Sorry, I'm trying to put a little humor into this bad situation. Or is it that you don't get the joke?

Can't get what you can't see...or is that the joke? If it is then I don't get it.  ???
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 30, 2020, 06:01:12 pm
Can't get what you can't see...or is that the joke? If it is then I don't get it.  ???

Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Michelle on March 30, 2020, 08:06:48 pm
https://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=328255&d=1584405851

It's broken because the miata forum requires a login.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 30, 2020, 08:20:04 pm
Miata?????  I could wear two of them on my feet.  My Indian weighs more than a Miata....
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 31, 2020, 03:53:51 am
It's broken because the miata forum requires a login.

Gottcha. Never mind, upon further review, that one wasn't as funny as I originally thought.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on March 31, 2020, 03:55:15 am
Miata?????  I could wear two of them on my feet.  My Indian weighs more than a Miata....

Must be difficult keeping them feet on the pegs of that Indian eh?    ;)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 31, 2020, 06:05:13 am
Not at all.  Like most modern motorcycles these days, I have floorboards instead of pegs.  Mind you, it took awhile to get used to them but I could never go back to pegs again or quiet bikes.  It's like a drug.


Was on the road for a trouble call in Southside VA yesterday when the govnor announced his 'You have to really stay at home now' message.  I'm not sure how they will enforce it yet if they even can.  Interstate travel was light on 95 and 85.  Very few out of state plates on the road.


I've got a pass if I'm stopped going to and from any work locations but it's for MD, not VA.  IT is considered essential in MD.  No word on how VA looks at it.  My wife and daughter have passes but they are in the medical professions.



Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on March 31, 2020, 03:06:14 pm
Was on the road for a trouble call in Southside VA yesterday when the govnor announced his 'You have to really stay at home now' message.  I'm not sure how they will enforce it yet if they even can. 

Not quite sure if this means I shouldn't go out for my "weekend MC joy rides" or not at this point.  There is no interaction with anyone, not going to any destination.  But it isn't essential or to work.  Of course, if something went wrong (like an accident or breakdown, it would cause interaction; but that is a tiny probability).

Not sure the legality of such "orders", anyway, unless we have somehow magically suspended both the US and VA Constitutions (not that our "governor" or the majority of the legislature cares about the Constitutions).  I am happy to try and comply with the spirit of such orders, though.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on March 31, 2020, 04:32:37 pm
Right- is that even legal under the US constitution? And if it is not, who is addressing or 'correcting' that misbehavior?

It is a slippery slope to be sure bit I fear we slid down that slope long ago and are not in a heap at the bottom of the mountain. The constitution is really quite simple and easy to read and understand. But it does seem more and more that, as you mentioned, we, or at least some segment(s) are just ignoring it.

VA has been quite the 'wake up' call in the US to anyone paying attention in the least. It used to be a state quite respectful of the constitution but after the last election, that has changed so abruptly and sharply that it should cause every American to take notice and be properly wary.

But back to the virus: we can go to the grocery store but not to our place of employment. OK but how would anyone know until 1) an LEO stopped a particular vehicle (if no probable cause, a violation of the fourth amendment) and asked that person where they were coming from and going to (violating several amendments to the constitution)? But it seems a lot of people, perhaps the majority, think this is OK because of the current crisis. They thought that too in Germany after the Reichstag burned and the Chancellor was given special, "temporary" power to avoid further 'mass bad behavior'. I guess it worked too 'cause there was little national interference afterward and Herr Hitler was free to 'do the right things'. After all, we should never let a social disaster go to waste.....

One does have to wonder though just how much damage a single motorcyclist can do by taking a ride. And then we have to wonder how much safer society is by preventing that ride in the first place.

Brian


<snip>

Not sure the legality of such "orders", anyway, unless we have somehow magically suspended both the US and VA Constitutions (not that our "governor" or the majority of the legislature cares about the Constitutions).  I am happy to try and comply with the spirit of such orders, though.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 31, 2020, 04:51:34 pm
Max, according to what the guvnor stated...it's more of a need than a want thing.  If you just want to get out and let's say ride for the heck of it to Richmond then that's violating the intent of the order.  If you need to get take out in Richmond for dinner then that's ok.


Md just clarified that even though police are out looking for violators they aren't knocking on doors or stopping vehicles and asking for z papers please.  I think that they're just looking for crowds of people.


There's a preacher in Baltimore that's flaunting it essentially but less than 10 people and he's saying 'Can't touch this!' cause it's religion.  We'll see how far that goes as they've already arrested one moron just across the river from me.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on March 31, 2020, 05:19:33 pm
In the grand scheme of viruses this is a lot of hype with not that much actual content.  Not that precautions shouldn't be taken, but I think we've crossed rather deeply into the absurd category with Covid-19.
Here's some graphs that give a different take on what the news media is feeding us.  Notice the huge spike in media coverage of this virus vs. recent others that supposedly threatened humanity.
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/?fbclid=IwAR1F8vuK3OYEzoX1xBXCms0F6IqrwOs3W_Vy_aM0D8RCMuUm9qrzPTL69AI
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 31, 2020, 05:40:26 pm
RIDE..... it doesn't break the rules.... just don't stop and "touch anything, or breath on people... reality check".
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 31, 2020, 08:07:26 pm
Actually it does in the state of VA, MD, and DC if you are riding just to ride and get out of the house.  They aren't stopping people on the roads here....yet.  I'm not crazy about self isolating but if we all flaunt it (cause we ride motorcycles and it's our God given right to do so and don't tell us not to because we're special) and do what we want then the result may be more cases of the virus and get more than the max of 240k of possible deaths.  Personally I don't want to be in that statistic so I won't be riding because I want to.  It literally makes me sick to look at the bike in the garage and not go out on it.


The problem with this virus is that it's killing healthy people as well as the ones with underlying issues and as I'm approaching 64 I don't want to take any undo chances.  It may be I or one of you catch it anyway because so many people aren't self isolating.  This virus is not a joke.  There's a reason we have two Navy hospital ships on each coast at the moment in active duty or that we are essentially docking a carrier in the Pacific with 5000 sailors on board or that a company like Ford is now making respirators in a plant instead of vehicles. 


I just hope all of us stay safe and live to ride another day.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 01, 2020, 07:44:05 am
In the grand scheme of viruses this is a lot of hype with not that much actual content.  Not that precautions shouldn't be taken, but I think we've crossed rather deeply into the absurd category with Covid-19.
Here's some graphs that give a different take on what the news media is feeding us.  Notice the huge spike in media coverage of this virus vs. recent others that supposedly threatened humanity.
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/?fbclid=IwAR1F8vuK3OYEzoX1xBXCms0F6IqrwOs3W_Vy_aM0D8RCMuUm9qrzPTL69AI

Hype and absurdity? At this late date?

You have got to be kidding me!?!?!?!?!?

Wake the **** up Bruce!!!
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 01, 2020, 07:59:03 am
My wife and I had to get groceries yesterday (the next time this is necessary I'll be doing it alone to limit our exposure). Wally's has senior hour from 6a to 7a on Tuesday for folks over 60, we got in line to enter at 6. We both wore masks and gloves.

For the most part we were able to get the stuff that we needed/wanted, no ice cream though, ice cream was completely sold out. No orange juice either.

Most people in the store maintained their distance but twice I had to tell someone to back away and get out of my space. One of them apologized, saying that he forgot. How do you forget?

What was worrisome for me was the fact that the employees didn't seem to be taking any kind or precautions, especially the cashiers. Very few of the workers wore gloves and none had masks on.

As I stood in the produce section, waiting for my wife to pick out stuff, I watched a employee stocking fruit. The man wore gloves but over and over I saw him wiping his nose and touching his face, with his gloves and then go right back to handling the fruit.

Up at the checkout lines the cashiers didn't distance themselves from customers, at all.

Good luck to you all.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 01, 2020, 08:04:22 am
While the risk is lower with getting the virus from getting groceries and other stuff they are recommending that you sanitize by wiping off the surface or using soap and water on them if you can. 


I'm getting leery on getting mail out of the box or packages.  I open stuff up and then wash my hands again.  Why just recently I got my copy of American Iron and let it sit out for a few days and then wiped it down with wipes before I sat down to read it. 


Paranoia is running rampant and maybe for good reason at this point.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MtnRider on April 01, 2020, 08:26:01 am
Went Costco yesterday for senior hour. When I checked out confirming I did not want to box anything, they had me turn every product so the bar code was up. She scanned my CC while I held it and then scanned the products. The cashier and her assistant didn't touch a single thing. I thought was a great way of handling the checkout.  Of course, I didn't have the cart stuffed so everything was visible. All had gloves on, some masks, so when they had to handle bigger purchases they weren't touching barehanded. Not sure if that makes a difference, thou.

As far as riding, If there's an exception made for motorcycles, where do they stop making exceptions...? If you get in an injury accident, your fault or not, you end up tying up medical personnel and their PPE stuff. That said, I really want to get out & ride. Damn!

Colorado has stated they won't pull anyone over just to see if you are not observing the stay at home rules. Be glad you aren't in India. They will spray you with bleach, bitch slap the crap out of you or use a stout bamboo rod to whack the sh*t out of you if they think you're breaking their lock-down rules.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 01, 2020, 09:01:54 am
In the grand scheme of viruses this is a lot of hype with not that much actual content.  Not that precautions shouldn't be taken, but I think we've crossed rather deeply into the absurd category with Covid-19.
Here's some graphs that give a different take on what the news media is feeding us.  Notice the huge spike in media coverage of this virus vs. recent others that supposedly threatened humanity.
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/?fbclid=IwAR1F8vuK3OYEzoX1xBXCms0F6IqrwOs3W_Vy_aM0D8RCMuUm9qrzPTL69AI

Well yes, perhaps hyped up more than it should be. However the absurdity is that the hype is needed to break through to the thick headed people that would just go around infecting us all if the hype didn't exist. Sure maybe some of it is politically motivated, however I feel the media is doing us all a service by the hyping. Yes they want viewers and readers so that their advertising is seen, so they run with what they think people want to know about. However despite whatever political agenda or business model is driving the hype, the sad part is that without the hype, things would be much worse. Now as for the data presented on that site, I have a little trouble with the total mentions in the media numbers. The HIV section, are those just recent numbers?...because I remember huge numbers of stories and yes hype if you will, especially after AIDS/HIV crossed over into the Hetero' population.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on April 01, 2020, 11:09:57 am
Hype and absurdity? At this late date?

You have got to be kidding me!?!?!?!?!?

Wake the **** up Bruce!!!
I am fully awake, and capable of seeing raw numbers vs. population, and looking at rates of cure and other factors and drawing a conclusion.  If you made an effort to look at ANY of the material I presented you might see why I hold the opinion I do.  Not that you have to believe what I believe, but I do resent that you somehow think I'm uninformed for being unimpressed by the measures put into place.  Do we really need to shut down an entire nation for a virus with a 98.5% cure rate?  Look at the number of times Covid-19 is mentioned in media vs. all other viruses and tell me again it's not a lot of hype and fear mongering?  Or keep yourself up at night worrying, and listening to the bleating talking heads on tv who spin numbers to make things seem more grave than they really are.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 01, 2020, 02:02:48 pm
Other observations:
 Many in the past would write about young people not interacting face to face enough. They would rather interact on their phones through social media. This was criticized, commented on, and fretted over by mostly people in my age group (ol' farts). Now we've come full circle calling them careless and selfish and fool hardy for interacting with each other face to face on the beach and at parties and gatherings.
---------------------------------------
I'm still getting the mailings from seminars and meetings which include a free meal at a local restaurant for things like retirement info, investment info, retirement living places, lakeside living developments and medicare seminars. (no timeshare offers thank goodness)
These things were all mailed this week and yet the restaurants haven't been open except for carry out for at least two weeks in my area.
---------------------------------------
I remember years ago when it was considered a bit bizarre (well at least very different) when they had drive in church services at the local drive in movie theaters. Now that it would really make sense to do so, we don't have hardly any drive ins any more.

Just observations, no real points to be made here.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 01, 2020, 02:50:28 pm
Agreed- but how can we know? We (the general public) have no access to any raw data to make our own conclusions, the only info. we have is coming from official sources.

As to the media, are they hyping it or is it just the current event that they are reporting on? Again, difficult to say.

And for the million dollar question: what should we, all of us, do to navigate through this situation? Are we over reacting, not reacting enough or doing basically the right thing? Extremely difficult to answer, especially since almost everything about the transmission of viruses is a percentage, not a hard and fast rule. For example, can we really get this virus from mail that was handled by someone infected? I suspect it is possible but not even mildly likely- so what do we do with that, sterilize all the mail? Wait 9 days until any possible contamination is dead?

All these questions beat me for an answer. ? We all have to choose what we will / will not do during this epidemic and I do not think we can call even over- reactions 'wrong'.

Anyway, it is clear at this point that the rapids of COVID are longer and rougher than first anticipated. Best of luck to everyone and if possible, try not to obsess over this as that will only make an individual's situation even worse.

And just so this post is not all gloom and doom, I think the gummit has made some excellent choices: the Fed. gov't has eliminated any state barriers to medical personnel practicing anywhere in the US for the duration of this epidemic; this allows medico's to cross state lines even though they are not licensed in the destination state. FEMA has moved, and continues to move medical resources and personnel from areas either not or very lightly infected to areas that are hot spots, such as NYC. Again, I think these are simple but extremely effective things that can be implemented immediately without any long, costly or difficult preparation.

Brian


<snip>

Well yes, perhaps hyped up more than it should be.

<snip>

Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Michelle on April 01, 2020, 07:17:40 pm
I am fully awake, and capable of seeing raw numbers vs. population, and looking at rates of cure and other factors and drawing a conclusion.  If you made an effort to look at ANY of the material I presented you might see why I hold the opinion I do.  Not that you have to believe what I believe, but I do resent that you somehow think I'm uninformed for being unimpressed by the measures put into place.  Do we really need to shut down an entire nation for a virus with a 98.5% cure rate?  Look at the number of times Covid-19 is mentioned in media vs. all other viruses and tell me again it's not a lot of hype and fear mongering?  Or keep yourself up at night worrying, and listening to the bleating talking heads on tv who spin numbers to make things seem more grave than they really are.

Please tell us more about this cure?
The reason you need to shut down an entire country is so that the unfortunate souls who aren't in the 80ish percent of people who only get mild or no symptoms, don't overwhelm the medical facilities and make them unavailable for any other medical need. You wouldn't want to be a cancer patient or have a heart attack in New York right now.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 01, 2020, 08:23:15 pm
Look at the number of times Covid-19 is mentioned in media vs. all other viruses and tell me again it's not a lot of hype and fear mongering? 

OK, I did look again, at least at the numbers you provided (Google News). It is a lot of hype and fear mongering....because there are so many out there that: take a lot of beating on the head to get through to them; and those that think it's all a plot (fake news) by the other political party to cause pain and losses to their party; and (this is the most important reason) to flatten the curve to maintain the 98.5% recovery rate which will definitely drop much lower if we run out of hospital beds and respirators for patients and PPE for our health workers. In other words the 98.5% recovery rate is because of the hype and fear mongering. Without the hype, the recovery rate could be down in the 80s percentile.  Now apparently you and my state's Lt. Governor think that the economy is more important than peoples lives. You both are entitled to those opinions, but I don't think you will convince the rest of us.

Regardless of how much hype there is now about Covid-19, I still don't believe the numbers provided by Google, they weren't even around when AIDs/HIV was at it's peak in the news.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on April 01, 2020, 08:28:27 pm
Please tell us more about this cure?
The reason you need to shut down an entire country is so that the unfortunate souls who aren't in the 80ish percent of people who only get mild or no symptoms, don't overwhelm the medical facilities and make them unavailable for any other medical need. You wouldn't want to be a cancer patient or have a heart attack in New York right now.

Quite honestly, I wouldn't be in New York on a good day.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on April 01, 2020, 08:30:17 pm
Please tell us more about this cure?
The reason you need to shut down an entire country is so that the unfortunate souls who aren't in the 80ish percent of people who only get mild or no symptoms, don't overwhelm the medical facilities and make them unavailable for any other medical need. You wouldn't want to be a cancer patient or have a heart attack in New York right now.
Maybe I should have said survival rate?  And if you look at per capita infection rates you find the US & Germany are near the bottom of any list.  I wouldn t want cancer or a heart attack in ANY city in the US, but that doesn't change anything about covid-19 and the sensationalized reporting of it.  News media latches onto big numbers of deaths predicted for the US, yet don't tell you that those numbers are based on worst case scenario with no preventive steps being taken.  I have read a bit deeper than what the media presents, at real numbers, real reports, to come to my conclusions.  How about you?



Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on April 01, 2020, 08:36:05 pm
Now apparently you and my state's Lt. Governor think that the economy is more important than peoples lives. You both are entitled to those opinions, but I don't think you will convince the rest of us.
I'm not sure what state you're from, nor what your Lt. Governor claims.  I merely stated I think the media is manipuilating the numbers so we don't get a true sense of the danger.  And it has vilch to do with economy.  Did I ever mention that?  Or anything political?  Come on Marty, I could get numbers other than Google and we could have a good discourse- no need to put words in my mouth. 
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Rick Hall on April 01, 2020, 08:45:37 pm
...
The reason you need to shut down an entire country is so that the unfortunate souls who aren't in the 80ish percent of people who only get mild or no symptoms...

This is one reason. Economics, and/or a  New World Order is another, but we save those posts for "The Arena". And if anyone here has an inkling...  :)

Bruce is right, the reported data is somewhat benign. But he's ignoring the data we don't know, most of us are.

The CV hit Colorado hard, specifically the ski towns. Our Govenator locked the ski towns down, closed the lifts, or something like that. The resorts likely suggested it too, I can't say. Regardless, no spring skiing in Colorado. Telluride is shut off from society, and quite a hard place to visit even if it's connected to the 'grid'. It's a hot spot, still is. I heard recently that everyone there will be getting the test, something that hasn't been done before. What will they find?

90% of those in town are carriers yet are asymptomatic? Think "Typhoid Mary" if you want.
Will they get retested in a week or month to confirm they're clean, asymptomatic, or the virus is gone?
Is the test 100% accurate?
Will the CV 'die out' with change of seasons, typical for the 'common' flu, or will it go dormant for a month/year?
Is six feet (two meters) adequate distance?
Testing in Belgium or Netherlands, I can't remember which, found CV in sewage water. Is this a concern?
One cat (Belgium) and two dogs (country unknown) came down with CV. Is this also a concern?

CV is new, we have little to compare it to, and very limited data. Perhaps it'll pass. Perhaps we'll develop a vaccine for it, pissing off the Aniti-Vaxers, perhaps it'll be a media event (I already know that is ;) ).

In recent history, the only thing we know how to do is avoid/slow/stop re-transmission. Other than the Black Plague, that means isolation until a solution is found. We'll get over this, the world populace is incredibly resourceful. If not, go ride! Or fly in my case ;)

Rick
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Michelle on April 01, 2020, 10:04:41 pm
Maybe I should have said survival rate? 
Yes, you should have. I knew what you meant, but not everybody is telepathic. Words are important.
Quote
I have read a bit deeper than what the media presents, at real numbers, real reports, to come to my conclusions.  How about you?
Real numbers? There is only one. The number of dead. The number of cases grows exponentially - the ones who have no symptoms and are not tested are not even counted. Nowhere near enough people are even tested. But if they aren't contained it will still spread.

Let's for example take your 99.5%. Then assume that everyone gets it - which they will if it isn't contained. The population of the US is what, 327 million? Half a percent of that is more than 160,000 dead people ... on top of the normal death rate from disease, accident and old age. A lot of bodies to get rid of in a hurry.
Doctors I know are expecting more like a 1% fatality rate. That's from the front line, not the media. And in Australia, a country the same size as the US with 10% of the population.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on April 02, 2020, 06:32:05 am
Again Michelle your numbers and what doctors are preparing for is worst case scenario.  Italy would be a good example of worst- case.  I could post another article explaining in more detail but I fear it would fall on deaf ears.  I just choose to see the brighter side and am not prepping for end times.  By all means do whatever you feel necessary to feel/be safe, as will I.  I hope you weren't affected by the massive fires in Australia.  My area took a big tornado hit 2 weeks before Covid-19 took off.  Poor timing to say the least.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 02, 2020, 07:28:47 am
Not to anyone in particular... 


Michelle, apologies as I don't want you to think this is about you, my rant being right after your post and such.



I've come up with my own philosophy on the 'general public'.....People are basically stupid and know very little about any science until they are 'whopped upside their heads' with a large heavy object or in this case a very very small object. 


I'm a scientific logical person.  I tend to agree with scientists such as Dr. Fauci (not to mention the rest of the world) whose been in this business for 50 years and knows what the hell he's talking about and not so much with government politicians (Federal and local) who cater to their own base and don't know sh*t until they've been dragged through it kicking and screaming.  Notice how they are changing their tunes now? I guess Easter isn't a milestone anymore.  I was so looking forward to that.


I'm near the breaking point with all of this, the politicians, the un-scientific luddites (look it up), being shut in the house and scared to go out, my company who's trying to force fit a 64 year old man into something he doesn't want to do and just about everything else going on.


Therefore, Rick, while not resigning from the form, I'm talking a vacation of sorts.  Don't know how long but I wish all of you the best and to stay safe as best you can or not.  Your choice after all.  Infect whom you want.


Jim



Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 02, 2020, 07:43:18 am
I am fully awake, and capable of seeing raw numbers vs. population, and looking at rates of cure and other factors and drawing a conclusion.  If you made an effort to look at ANY of the material I presented you might see why I hold the opinion I do.  Not that you have to believe what I believe, but I do resent that you somehow think I'm uninformed for being unimpressed by the measures put into place.  Do we really need to shut down an entire nation for a virus with a 98.5% cure rate?  Look at the number of times Covid-19 is mentioned in media vs. all other viruses and tell me again it's not a lot of hype and fear mongering?  Or keep yourself up at night worrying, and listening to the bleating talking heads on tv who spin numbers to make things seem more grave than they really are.

Yes, you should have. I knew what you meant, but not everybody is telepathic. Words are important.Real numbers? There is only one. The number of dead. The number of cases grows exponentially - the ones who have no symptoms and are not tested are not even counted. Nowhere near enough people are even tested. But if they aren't contained it will still spread.

Let's for example take your 99.5%. Then assume that everyone gets it - which they will if it isn't contained. The population of the US is what, 327 million? Half a percent of that is more than 160,000 dead people ... on top of the normal death rate from disease, accident and old age. A lot of bodies to get rid of in a hurry.
Doctors I know are expecting more like a 1% fatality rate. That's from the front line, not the media. And in Australia, a country the same size as the US with 10% of the population.

In Bruce's example he stated "a 98.5% cure rate". Ok, he meant survival rate.

To me that means that 1.5% do not survive. I'm sure that Michelle looked at that number incorrectly. 1.5% of 327 million is considerable more than 160K.

Further, Michelle, please check your math. How much is 0.5% of 327 million again? I believe that you have the decimal point in the wrong place.

By my math, and I used to be pretty good at it, 1.5% of 327 million is 4.9 million. That's 4.9 million dead Americans. But of course, not everyone will be infected.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Michelle on April 02, 2020, 07:52:31 am
Italy is a good example of wost case so far. There are other places that could go south real quick.
I am far from preparing for end times. I'm lucky enough that I live in a rural area of a large and sparsely populated country. My state is 380,000sq miles and has a population of about 1.7 million. 77% of them live in the capital city and that is where almost all our 367 covid19 cases are. We are prepared for a period of self isolation if there is a case near us, mostly because my husband is 70 and has COPD and I've been hospitalised twice with pneumonia. I'm not willing to gamble that we will be in the 80%.

No need to apologise Jim. I actually agree with you. I don't read most of the mainstream media and have an urge to whup people upside their heads at least once a day. I don't do faecesbook, so I'm thankfully spared the worst of human stupidity. Rather than wanting to know where the virus was at minute by minute (we all know it was on airplanes and those floating petri dishes called cruise liners) I wanted to know the science. Like what it does to you if you catch it. Lucky I'm not prone to becoming like chicken little ...

In Bruce's example he stated "a 98.5% cure rate". Ok, he meant survival rate.
By my math, and I used to be pretty good at it, 1.5% of 327 million is 4.9 million. That's 4.9 million dead Americans. But of course, not everyone will be infected.
My bad. I looked at that as 99.5%. And yes, after that I seem to have misplaced my decimal point.
Maths wasn't my strong point, but I excelled in English.  ;)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on April 02, 2020, 08:21:07 am
In Bruce's example he stated "a 98.5% cure rate". Ok, he meant survival rate.

To me that means that 1.5% do not survive. I'm sure that Michelle looked at that number incorrectly. 1.5% of 327 million is considerable more than 160K.

Further, Michelle, please check your math. How much is 0.5% of 327 million again? I believe that you have the decimal point in the wrong place.

By my math, and I used to be pretty good at it, 1.5% of 327 million is 4.9 million. That's 4.9 million dead Americans. But of course, not everyone will be infected.
okay- math time with (I think) real numbers.  This doing a quick search of total cases of COVID-19 in the US on Google.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

215,362 confirmed cases
5113 deaths

Doesn't that give a mortality rate of .02 and some change?
I don't trust my own math because when I divided number of cases by total population I got 6.5, which I think is too high.  Does 6.5% of the US have Covid-19? Might have misplaced the decimal as well?

This is why I look at what the media reports and say they've over-hyped it.  Dr Fauci has given us numbers for a worst case scenario- but that doesn't get emphasized.  The big scary numbers do though, and that is what I question.
As for me- I follow all the restrictions the local gov't has put in place.  I just wonder why no one on tv points out survival numbers, or percentage of population infected.  Why do we not hear about people recovered?  Do any of us think that of 215K people infected there will be 215K deaths? 

Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 02, 2020, 08:41:27 am
I'm not sure what state you're from, nor what your Lt. Governor claims.  I merely stated I think the media is manipuilating the numbers so we don't get a true sense of the danger.  And it has vilch to do with economy.  Did I ever mention that?  Or anything political?  Come on Marty, I could get numbers other than Google and we could have a good discourse- no need to put words in my mouth. 
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I never claimed you were saying something political. I WAS giving reasons why the hype existed.  Manipulating numbers is a whole different claim than a more generalized hype. I did lump you in with the Lt. Governor (Texas) that says that we should let the old people (himself included) take care of themselves and we should otherwise just go about our business so that the economy survives. Perhaps that was an error on my part, perhaps not.

So I agreed with you about the hype, but I gave the reasons that I think it exists. Your original post seemed to be just about hype, now you are saying that the media is manipulating the numbers.
Perhaps you could just tell us why you think the media is doing the hype and allegedly manipulating the numbers. What is their goal here, if not to bang it into our heads to take this serious so that the hospitals don't become overwhelmed to the point that people needing treatment can't get it and are allowed to just die?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

okay- math time with (I think) real numbers.  This doing a quick search of total cases of COVID-19 in the US on Google.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

215,362 confirmed cases
5113 deaths

Doesn't that give a mortality rate of .02 and some change?
I don't trust my own math because when I divided number of cases by total population I got 6.5, which I think is too high.  Does 6.5% of the US have Covid-19? Might have misplaced the decimal as well?

This is why I look at what the media reports and say they've over-hyped it.  Dr Fauci has given us numbers for a worst case scenario- but that doesn't get emphasized.  The big scary numbers do though, and that is what I question.
As for me- I follow all the restrictions the local gov't has put in place.  I just wonder why no one on tv points out survival numbers, or percentage of population infected.  Why do we not hear about people recovered?  Do any of us think that of 215K people infected there will be 215K deaths? 
2.37+ % death percentage is what I get from those  numbers. However even if the total cases were to stop today at that number, I think it is safe to assume that more from that group (the 215K) will die and the percentage will go up. Only when (again in the scenario of no new cases) every one of the cases has panned out to either death or recovery can start accurately predicting death rates.
I think I can safely say that no here thinks the total number of cases will result in an equal number of deaths. I don't believe the current projections (? what? 100,000 - 240,00) are worst case scenarios. Millions are the worst case scenarios if the "hype" isn't listened to assuming some pre-vacination available alternate treatment (drug, transfusion of antibodies etc.) isn't found. Again, the hype is needed because once the hospitals and staff become overwhelmed the numbers will really go up percentage wise.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 02, 2020, 08:46:46 am
Therefore, Rick, while not resigning from the form, I'm talking a vacation of sorts.  Don't know how long but I wish all of you the best and to stay safe as best you can or not.  Your choice after all.  Infect whom you want.


Jim





Well that just sucks. Before you go, could you get Rick to buy an Indian so we can pick on him until you return? It gets old just picking on max'.

Enjoy your vacation, and recover quickly because I don't want the virus to kill this forum too.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 02, 2020, 02:19:24 pm
I hear ya' Jim, been there, done that. A break, along with a change of attitude and outlook can make a tremendous difference.

Best of luck to you too with the current situation, and I hope it works out well for you and if not, at least tolerable and less stressful.

See you when you get back....

Brian

Not to anyone in particular... 

<snip>

Therefore, Rick, while not resigning from the form, I'm talking a vacation of sorts.  Don't know how long but I wish all of you the best and to stay safe as best you can or not.  Your choice after all.  Infect whom you want.


Jim
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 02, 2020, 02:28:08 pm
I did see Dr. Fauci mention the worst case scenario and if memory serves, it would be 100 million Americans infected, 3 million deaths. When building the formula, some guesses have to be put in place and that is what generates both the worst case and best case scenarios. And when delivering that information, Fauci specifically said that neither the worst case or best case would actually happen, the real result will be somewhere in- between, as it always is.

Lately I have also heard that man state exactly what you posted as the roughly 'expected' outcome: between 100K and 240K deaths but I have not seen a total number of infections from the same data that generated these projected death numbers came from.

Brian


<snip>

I think I can safely say that no here thinks the total number of cases will result in an equal number of deaths. I don't believe the current projections (? what? 100,000 - 240,00) are worst case scenarios. Millions are the worst case scenarios if the "hype" isn't listened to assuming some pre-vacination available alternate treatment (drug, transfusion of antibodies etc.) isn't found. Again, the hype is needed because once the hospitals and staff become overwhelmed the numbers will really go up percentage wise.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on April 03, 2020, 04:53:39 am
It is almost impossible to get accurate stats during an epidemic/pandemic.
It will be years before we end up with accurate-ish stats for the poli-scum to fight over.

Like most such things this pandemic will have the greatest effect on the weak and vulnerable first. What we as a society are trying to do with social distancing is to reduce the burden on our healthcare systems to allow them to save as many of the vulnerable as possible. If the heath services get overloaded, then you will see death rates like Italy's or worse pretty quickly. However, once all those who are most vulnerable have recovered or died, then the death rate will plummet.

As for managing it, the best method all along was TESTING. South Korea saw that by observing China, and they have by far the lowest rate so far.
Trump and Boris preferred to believe in some pseudo-scientific gobbledigook and will be spending the next few weeks/months trying to develop the steepest, super-lubricated shoulders so that they can avoid the backlash from that. At least they finally woke up and took action.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 03, 2020, 06:31:41 am
Interesting story from CNN.

Read it or not, take from it what you will. Believe it or not. From my observations, personally and from what I'm reading, I believe it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/coronavirus-fox-news-poll/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/coronavirus-fox-news-poll/index.html)

Here's what you think of coronavirus if you watch Fox News

Every cable network is covering the coronavirus wall-to-wall. And has been doing so for weeks now.

But while the coverage is constant across cable TV news, the message about coronavirus people are getting from the networks isn't the same. At all.

Take this question, asked in a recent Pew poll, as to whether the coronavirus originated in nature (it did) or whether it was built in a laboratory (it wasn't).

While 66% of MSNBC viewers and 52% of CNN watchers accurately said the coronavirus came from nature, just 37% of Fox News viewers said the same.

Or this question about how long it will take for a coronavirus vaccine to be ready. Just 51% of Fox News viewers said it would take a year or more for the vaccine to be available while 78% of MSNBC watchers said it would more than a year for a vaccine. Almost 6 in 10 CNN viewers said the same.

(Worth noting: A coronavirus vaccine is, according to medical experts, at least, a year to 18 months away.)

The differences between cable network viewers' knowledge of the virus extend to how each network's stalwarts view the coronavirus coverage.

Eight in 10 Fox News viewers say the media exaggerated the threat from coronavirus as compared to 54% of CNN viewers and just 35% of MSNBC watchers.

Why those numbers matter is because we know -- also from Pew data -- that self-identified conservatives Republicans overwhelmingly turn to Fox News as their preferred source of information.

(More than 3 in 4 conservative Republicans and those who lean Republican say that Fox is their main source of information.)


The Point: Fox News watchers, who are overwhelmingly Republicans, are reporting a very different -- and less accurate -- view of coronavirus than those who watch CNN and MSNBC.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: BruceR on April 03, 2020, 06:50:16 am
Did you really expect a CNN story to say anything other than that they're the best source for information?
I'll bet Fox news thinks THEY'RE best.  I don't watch either one so where does that put me?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 03, 2020, 07:50:03 am
Did you really expect a CNN story to say anything other than that they're the best source for information?
I'll bet Fox news thinks THEY'RE best.  I don't watch either one so where does that put me?

Indeed.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 03, 2020, 03:57:39 pm
Interesting story from CNN.  Read it or not, take from it what you will. Believe it or not. From my observations, personally and from what I'm reading, I believe it.

I find it especially hard to believe anything from CNN or MSNBC.  But I also take everything from MSM (main stream media) with a grain of salt, regardless.  It is almost always politicized (overwhelmingly "left"), soundbite, and sensationalistic.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MtnRider on April 03, 2020, 06:42:13 pm
But TPN (Trump Propaganda Network aka: FOX) is on the opposite end of the spectrum (far right) and doesn't tell the real story either. You can't go by what they say...  Where is the non-politicized factual news to be found?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on April 03, 2020, 07:07:53 pm
But TPN (Trump Propaganda Network aka: FOX) is on the opposite end of the spectrum (far right) and doesn't tell the real story either. You can't go by what they say...  Where is the non-politicized factual news to be found?

In the land of unicorn farts and rainbows.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 03, 2020, 07:10:46 pm
Personally I find Reuters and the BBC news to be more neutral, though I would never go so far as to say 'fair and unbiased'- it is 2020 after all, and 'that train has sailed' I believe.

Brian

But TPN (Trump Propaganda Network aka: FOX) is on the opposite end of the spectrum (far right) and doesn't tell the real story either. You can't go by what they say...  Where is the non-politicized factual news to be found?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 03, 2020, 07:22:35 pm
Quick field report:

Went out tonight around 6:00 PM to Walmart, general shopping, CVS, and finally a local diner for fish & chips and a pizza (for me and the Mrs., and no, we do not mix them before someone asks- I hate tartar sauce on my pizza, and pepperoni on my fish).

Wally World has one entrance, one exit, both manned and in radio communication with each other. The store customer limit is 490 people and they count people coming and going. Things have been moved around in the store, and there are floor stickers around the deli counter as well as checkout denoting the suggested 6 foot spacing. Stock was pretty good, even got a four- pack of T.P., no- name brand but it is soft, 2- ply. Otherwise we got everything we wanted overall, though some trade- off of brands, package size but no big deal. People were surprisingly (amazingly!) civil and well- behaved. Lots of people wearing masks, perhaps 15- 20% of the total people including employees.

CVS was orderly, did NOT require a signature, and had payment setups back away from the counter to prevent a log- jam of people. Overall, not bad at all.

Restaurant was almost empty though kitchen staff was really slinging hash ( busy). Of course they are open for take- out only and this particular place does not deliver.

Liquor store across the street was fairly busy but I did not see any fist- fights nor did I hear any gunshots so I can only assume it was going OK in there. There has been talk of closing the liquor stores, the only source for any alcoholic beverage of any kind in this state but that has not gone further. Seriously, I would keep my powder extra- dry if that should happen 'cause I figure bad behavior will soon follow closing those stores.... :-(

Medium traffic, light for a Friday night and again, civil and organized.

Overall, it is going better than I had hoped and a lot better than I had feared, at least so far.

Brian
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 04, 2020, 06:55:54 am
Only 8 or 9 states have not issued 'stay at home orders'. All of the governors from these states have one thing in common. Can you guess?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 04, 2020, 07:03:43 am
Only 8 or 9 states have not issued 'stay at home orders'. All of the governors from these states have one thing in common. Can you guess?

Lower population densities, fewer cases, higher rates of self-sufficiency and charity, great concern for destroying the economy, respect for personal freedom, and faith that things will work out OK?

Nobody is being forced to not "stay at home" or take other precautions.

There are good reasons we are not the "United Federal State of America", at least, not yet.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 04, 2020, 09:08:28 am
Lower population densities, fewer cases, higher rates of self-sufficiency and charity, great concern for destroying the economy, respect for personal freedom, and faith that things will work out OK?

Nobody is being forced to not "stay at home" or take other precautions.

There are good reasons we are not the "United Federal State of America", at least, not yet.

You didn't like how I replied to your post so you deleted it?

Not what I expected from you Max but I'm not surprised, not one bit.

I suppose this post will suffer the same fate.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 04, 2020, 10:16:54 am
You didn't like how I replied to your post so you deleted it?

Not what I expected from you Max but I'm not surprised, not one bit.

I suppose this post will suffer the same fate.

You sure about that C?  I'm not taking sides here, it's just that I thought max' wasn't a moderator any more and thus doesn't have those powers now.
...or were those reinstated while V'Jim's on sabbatical?  Again not taking sides between you two, I just want any debate between you two to be about
main issues not about the forum itself. (I sure hope I'm right about this.  :-\ )

......anyway in other news, I've found AP news to be fairly unbiased, IMO less biased than BBC. Anybody have an alternate opinion? (I almost typed Anybody have an alternate
opinion that they want to have deleted
?
  :stirpot: )
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 04, 2020, 10:37:17 am
You didn't like how I replied to your post so you deleted it?

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.  I don't have the ability to delete anything and I have not seen any reply from you to my 08:55:54am post, except the above accusation.  It is really sad that you would jump to such an accusation, especially against me.

Quote
Not what I expected from you Max but I'm not surprised, not one bit.

I guess you don't know me very well, which is far more surprising.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on April 04, 2020, 10:57:48 am
What do you imagine was deleted? Although I have noticed your TDS is bleeding out of the Arena into the main forum more and more. Might want to turn the 'news' off for awhile.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: T Cro ® on April 04, 2020, 03:52:21 pm
You didn't like how I replied to your post so you deleted it?

Not what I expected from you Max but I'm not surprised, not one bit.

I suppose this post will suffer the same fate.

I deleted your post because it was in violation of open forum rules, no profanities... The Arena is allowed unfiltered discussion, the open forum does not...
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 04, 2020, 04:23:40 pm
Just a thought but these are definitely times of high pressure, through no fault of our own. And most mammals react to pressure by increasing emotion levels and responses, so we are certainly not at our best under these conditions. That said, most of us in this conversation, and even this forum, are at least casual acquaintances, along with plenty of friends too. We should probably try to tread a little bit gently here, especially as this forum (and other internet connections in general) have become perhaps a more commonly used as social outlets.

Put more simply, it would be great if visiting this forum remains a pleasant experience in an otherwise lousy time. If it gets unpleasant or confrontational, it is not only going to be yet another source of irritation in already irritating times but may well fracture long established relationships, which would be unfortunate, at least IMO.

We all have our own beliefs and opinions but we do not have to jab each other with them as methods of assault.

Not addressing anyone specifically and not criticizing anyone, just an thought.

Brian
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 05, 2020, 05:57:00 am
Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.  I don't have the ability to delete anything and I have not seen any reply from you to my 08:55:54am post, except the above accusation.  It is really sad that you would jump to such an accusation, especially against me.

I guess you don't know me very well, which is far more surprising.

I owe you an apology Max. I'm sorry, please forgive me for accusing you of deleting my post. I am sincerely sorry. I should have known that you wouldn't delete a post without some form of discussion with me about the issue. My emotions got the better of me and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Not an excuse by any means but I had no idea that you weren't a moderator any longer. Had I known I certainly wouldn't have accused you of the deletion. Again, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 05, 2020, 06:08:08 am
I deleted your post because it was in violation of open forum rules, no profanities... The Arena is allowed unfiltered discussion, the open forum does not...

I've been a member of this forum for almost 12 years now and I have almost 6k posts. In all that time I've never had to have a post deleted, until now.

You didn't think that perhaps you could have afforded me a heads up on this, T? Maybe a quick PM saying that my post was deleted because of my use of profanity? Or maybe, even better, a PM asking me to edit my post otherwise it will vanish?

Normally when you punish someone for breaking the rules the process works much better when that person is aware that they have broken the rules and what the reason is for said punishment. Wouldn't you agree, T?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 05, 2020, 06:10:11 am
What do you imagine was deleted? Although I have noticed your TDS is bleeding out of the Arena into the main forum more and more. Might want to turn the 'news' off for awhile.

I didn't imagine anything, thank you.  But you're right about the rest...
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 05, 2020, 06:14:29 am
I owe you an apology Max. I'm sorry, please forgive me for accusing you of deleting my post. I am sincerely sorry. I should have known that you wouldn't delete a post without some form of discussion with me about the issue. My emotions got the better of me and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Not an excuse by any means

Apology accepted.  I was pretty shocked- for a moment, I actually thought someone else broke in and was posting using your login.

Quote
Had I known I certainly wouldn't have accused you of the deletion. Again, I'm sorry.

I would never attempt to delete something just because I disagree with someone.  But there are many people in the world that would, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 05, 2020, 07:45:38 am
Apology accepted.  I was pretty shocked- for a moment, I actually thought someone else broke in and was posting using your login.

I would never attempt to delete something just because I disagree with someone.  But there are many people in the world that would, unfortunately.

Thank you Max.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: T Cro ® on April 05, 2020, 04:15:07 pm
I've been a member of this forum for almost 12 years now and I have almost 6k posts. In all that time I've never had to have a post deleted, until now.

You didn't think that perhaps you could have afforded me a heads up on this, T? Maybe a quick PM saying that my post was deleted because of my use of profanity? Or maybe, even better, a PM asking me to edit my post otherwise it will vanish?

Normally when you punish someone for breaking the rules the process works much better when that person is aware that they have broken the rules and what the reason is for said punishment. Wouldn't you agree, T?

Of course I could have given you warning before removing the vulgar outburst, but I choose to be silent as a test to see how you would react...
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on April 05, 2020, 06:44:31 pm
So Conrad, how does it feel to be an unwilling, unknowing subject in someones psychology 101 science experiment?
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: j_wahl91 on April 05, 2020, 07:11:03 pm
If I may step in for a moment. I don't know anyone here all the well yet but I will say this. With these trying times, and with the powers that be constantly bickering with each other instead of coming up with a way to help the general public, now isn't the time for the general public to be at arms with each other. I would suggest we all take a moment to let emotions settle, remind ourselves that it's hard to get tone and meaning through text (something about a lack of inflection through speech being pesky) and just find ways to be supportive of those that have access to these forums. From what I've been able to read through when I have some free time from my 6 day work weeks, this community is pretty cool and very helpful. I'd hate to see a stressful situation break apart some relations built through the threads on this site.

I'll put my soap box away for now, carry on as y'all see fit. Be safe out there in the real world and keep the shiny side up :)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on April 06, 2020, 02:55:06 am
Back to the subject of "neutral" news, I'm surprised that you find the BBC to be biased. I don't often see the BBC that y'all get in the USA but here they have a mandate to be as neutral as possible w.r.t. the news. As a consequence we constantly hear that the BBC is left biased and the BBC is right biased and both the left and right agree that the BBC is against them. I don't know about you guys, but hearing both sides bitching that the BBC is biased against them is as good an indication of near-neutrality as you will get in this age of extremist news services.

Based on what I have seen over here I would lump Fox and CNN together in the bin marked "Politically biased with frequent fabrication" which in my opinion makes them not worth my time. I regularly peruse a variety of internationally available news services, from Aljazeera to Sky News to try to see the world from other peoples points of view. Listening to and trying to understand both sides of any issue can often be a real eye opener.

One of the gauges I use to judge news services is how they report on disasters.
Some like the BBC will initially under-report the casualties and slowly adjust upwards as the actual figures become clearer and will often clearly state that their numbers are estimates.
Others often report wildly over the top numbers and slowly correct downwards towards the actual figures.
One classic was after flight MH17 was shot down over the Ukraine when some news services initially reported over 500 dead even though a 777-200ER can only hold a maximum of 286 passengers. They later tried to justify that entirely fabricated number by saying that they had assumed there would be casualties on the ground as well.

Finally, I have a personal rule that any news service (or anything else in life for that matter) that ever uses the phrase "The Truth" to describe something that they are reporting on is utter hogwash and not worth using as emergency TP. The classic for that was the Soviet era newspaper Pravda which translates into English as "Truth". There is no "Truth", there are just facts and opinion both of which can vary depending on who is reporting and who is consuming them.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 06, 2020, 06:24:33 am
Of course I could have given you warning before removing the vulgar outburst, but I choose to be silent as a test to see how you would react...

Oh, I see. That, of course, makes perfect sense...
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Conrad on April 06, 2020, 06:25:08 am
If I may step in for a moment. I don't know anyone here all the well yet but I will say this. With these trying times, and with the powers that be constantly bickering with each other instead of coming up with a way to help the general public, now isn't the time for the general public to be at arms with each other. I would suggest we all take a moment to let emotions settle, remind ourselves that it's hard to get tone and meaning through text (something about a lack of inflection through speech being pesky) and just find ways to be supportive of those that have access to these forums. From what I've been able to read through when I have some free time from my 6 day work weeks, this community is pretty cool and very helpful. I'd hate to see a stressful situation break apart some relations built through the threads on this site.

I'll put my soap box away for now, carry on as y'all see fit. Be safe out there in the real world and keep the shiny side up :)

Well said. I'll try to do my part.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 06, 2020, 09:34:37 am
Well said. I'll try to do my part.



 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :popcorn: :rotflmao:


https://youtu.be/RFlCD5CYAcU (https://youtu.be/RFlCD5CYAcU)
http://youtu.be/RFlCD5CYAcU (http://youtu.be/RFlCD5CYAcU)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 06, 2020, 11:34:07 am
Back to the subject of "neutral" news, I'm surprised that you find the BBC to be biased. I don't often see the BBC that y'all get in the USA but here they have a mandate to be as neutral as possible w.r.t. the news. As a consequence we constantly hear that the BBC is left biased and the BBC is right biased and both the left and right agree that the BBC is against them.

I guess that is mostly directed at me, since Brian said he finds it mostly unbiased. I'll admit that I don't watch the the BBC America version of the news, but I do read the BBC news on the BBC app on my phone. I have no way of knowing if I am receiving the same thing on that APP as I would if I resided in the UK. If it is in fact biased, I'll agree with you that it is nowhere near as biased as the most biased of the main stream media here regardless of the left/right direction of lean. However since, on the whole, the  Government of the UK is slightly to the left of the U.S. (I will add IMO here in case some disagree) then it would seem that if it is considered neutral there, that it would be slightly left biased here. Am I using faulty logic? ..or worse no logic?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I really dislike about our TV news is the commercialism involved. The need to make it palatable and entertaining to the lowest common denominator so the most people will tune in to see the ads. I wish it had no commercial ads, ever. I wish they would try to be as cold and factual as possible. I tire of the adjectives they use, "shocking new video", well I'll decide if its shocking thank you; "disturbing story" well I'll decide if its disturbing thank you; "surprising response" well once again I'd like to make that decision. Then the need to have a touchy feel good story at the end of every broadcast, "heart warming story of those who care"; I'll decide if it's heartwarming if I must, but I'd rather see the story of real news that was cut to make room for the mushy stuff. Stories about people standing around at candlelight vigils (IMO a huge waste of time by stupid people), stories about firetrucks parading in front of hospitals with their lights and sirens on in a "tribute" to health care workers. Get the hell out of there and let the nurses and doctors get back inside to save people. Broadcasting that crap stuff just encourages more illogical behavior. Might as well have a rolling thunder tribute of open piped Harleys parading by "paying tribute", when in fact it would really be an excuse for them to get out and do what they like doing (noise making and having people look at them) more than it has to do with tribute. Want to give real tribute?..give them some masks and gloves you've been hoarding at home.

OK, I'm finished venting, thanks for the forum..back to virus talk folks..
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 06, 2020, 02:08:25 pm
MIDNIGHT TONIGHT...

i fully agree, just sharing...
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: B.D.F. on April 06, 2020, 03:11:03 pm
Right- all the 'news' ever needed to be was..... news. It has become confused and infused with entertainment, which IMO has effectively ruined the very point of news, which should be, and used to be, simply providing information. Can you even imagine what Edward Murrow or even Walter Cronkite would think of today's "dog and pony shows" that are presented as news?

We are literally living the plot of the movie 'Network' IMO. That was an off-beat, somewhat dark comedy. Of course the news today is bright and upbeat comedy but close enough. And not just the news, the entertainment / shock / being amazingly interesting factor has infected most aspects of life that should be dry, direct and unbiased. If you do not believe that, go back and watch any part (or all) of the O.J. case.... what should have been a court case, tried by 'blind justice' was really a soap opera that could have been named 'As the stomach turns'. (not talking about guilt or innocence of that case, just the fact that it was a media circus and was dripping with false drama for 'the masses')

And BTW, not much of a rant Marty.  ;) ;D

Brian


<snip>

What I really dislike about our TV news is the commercialism involved.

<snip>

OK, I'm finished venting, thanks for the forum..back to virus talk folks..
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 06, 2020, 03:18:18 pm
I guess that is mostly directed at me, since Brian said he finds it [BBC] mostly unbiased. I'll admit that I don't watch the the BBC America version of the news, but I do read the BBC news on the BBC app on my phone. I have no way of knowing if I am receiving the same thing on that APP as I would if I resided in the UK. If it is in fact biased, I'll agree with you that it is nowhere near as biased as the most biased of the main stream media here regardless of the left/right direction of lean.

I also don't know about "BBC America", when I do consult BBC, I go straight there.  I agree that the BBC is far less biased than perhaps all USA mainstream media.  But all media is biased in some way, it is almost impossible not to be.  It is more of a matter of what type of bias(es), how far, and in what way.  Not covering something is also a bias, and I see that a LOT.

Quote
However since, on the whole, the  Government of the UK is slightly to the left of the U.S. (I will add IMO here in case some disagree)

I agree.  The UK as a whole, is considerably more left than the USA, as a whole.  But their mainstream media seems far less so than the vast majority of ours.  Ours has also been getting worse by the year (or at least it certainly seems that way to me). 

Quote
then it would seem that if it is considered neutral there, that it would be slightly left biased here. Am I using faulty logic? ..or worse no logic?

No, I think your logic is correct.  Everything is relative.

About the best one can hope for when researching something here is to consult MULTIPLE sources, specifically INCLUDING right-of-center sources (which are few and far between) and see where they agree and on what they disagree (and how), and sometimes include a BBC perspective on it, too.  Somewhere between is the truth (whatever that might be).  This is frustrating, though, because it takes a lot of effort, few people will do that.  They will watch CNN or read the NY Times and think they are getting "balanced and impartial" news, and nothing could be further from the truth.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on April 06, 2020, 06:25:35 pm
snip

Based on what I have seen over here I would lump Fox and CNN together in the bin marked "Politically biased with frequent fabrication" which in my opinion makes them not worth my time. I regularly peruse a variety of internationally available news services, from Aljazeera to Sky News to try to see the world from other peoples points of view. Listening to and trying to understand both sides of any issue can often be a real eye opener.

snip


Why would I want to do that especially since I would probably consider their 'point of view' wrong.  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on April 07, 2020, 07:19:36 am
Why would I want to do that especially since I would probably consider their 'point of view' wrong.  :rotflmao:
If you choose to listen to one source for your news, then we have nothing further to discuss. You have made up your mind and are convinced that your side are right and that's an end of it. Personally I try to keep an open mind and don't believe in extremes in anything outside of the basic laws of physics.

As for the BBC being left leaning from the US's point of view, most probably, but then y'all are one of the more right leaning countries in the "western world". The BBC is far from perfect but until recently it remained mostly free of political interference. Unfortunately that may soon change if they get forced to go fully commercial.  >:(
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 07, 2020, 02:58:56 pm
y'all are one of the more right leaning countries in the "western world".

By design :)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: gPink on April 07, 2020, 03:27:12 pm
If you choose to listen to one source for your news, then we have nothing further to discuss. You have made up your mind and are convinced that your side are right and that's an end of it. Personally I try to keep an open mind and don't believe in extremes in anything outside of the basic laws of physics.

As for the BBC being left leaning from the US's point of view, most probably, but then y'all are one of the more right leaning countries in the "western world". The BBC is far from perfect but until recently it remained mostly free of political interference. Unfortunately that may soon change if they get forced to go fully commercial.  >:(

Here in the Colonies NPR, National Public Radio, and PBS, Public Broadcasting System, are both funded with taxpayer monies. They both are overtly left leaning. I as a taxpayer do not have a say on how my money is spent to fund them. They are using my tax money in direct contradiction to my interests. Self supporting commercial media is funded by my discretionary spending. I can and do choose where I spend my time (watching and listening) and my money (advertising). I don't think you are getting a bias free BBC just because it's not influenced by capitalist advertising dollars.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: maxtog on April 07, 2020, 04:05:53 pm
Here in the Colonies NPR, National Public Radio, and PBS, Public Broadcasting System, are both funded with taxpayer monies.

They also are funded by individual donations, corporate grants, fund raisers, etc.  So it is nowhere near 100% government funded.  Of course, trying to figure out how MUCH is government funding is apparently very difficult to determine.  Despite my [not terribly in-depth] research, I still don't know.  But I would guess it is more than 50%.

Quote
They both are overtly left leaning.

Absolutely.  But at least they are generally "softer" (not loud or annoying or sensationalistic) and generally less politicized.

Quote
I as a taxpayer do not have a say on how my money is spent to fund them.

Not directly.  But no less than we have on anything else that is government-controlled.  In theory, we have a representative government, and that is about the span of an individual's control over it (which isn't much).  A bigger issue (to me) is that it is not really a power granted to the Federal government in the Constitution (but that hardly seems to matter, anymore).

Quote
I don't think you are getting a bias free BBC just because it's not influenced by capitalist advertising dollars.

No media and no news can be completely bias-free.  Some are better than others, of course.

That aside, there is still some good content on PBS, mostly things that stick to art, literature-based, how-to, and pure science.  Frontline is an example of something outside that list, although, depending on the topic, it often still has some good content.  Similar (but lesser) thing with Nova- excellent show most of the time, but it can really lean at times.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: Boomer on April 08, 2020, 04:26:29 am
Here the BBC is mostly funded by a "TV Licence" that all households have to pay unless they can PROVE that they don't consume non-commercial BBC content in any way (Radio, TV, WebPages), so I guess you can call it a tax. It costs 157.50UKP per year per household. For that ya get several commercial free TV stations, a couple of internet only TV stations as well as internet catch-up for all stations, a plethora of local, national, and international radio stations, and commercial free access to the BBC website. It sounds expensive when compared to Netflix or Prime, but when you look at the content and breadth of media, it's not that bad.
The BBC does get some government tax money, mostly for providing the BBC World Service Radio and TV stations outside the UK.
The BBC also sells many of it's shows outside the UK, sells licences for show formats, and has several commercial TV Stations under the banner of UKTV. Many of these UKTV stations mostly show repeats of old BBC shows, but some also commission new content.
It's a complex beastie and it's likely that fairly soon the TV Licence will be scrapped and the BBC will become just like all the other commercial TV stations and pander only to the "majority" with boring quiz shows, brain-dead "reality" crap, and endless soaps.  :( They have plenty of these already, but mixed in are some gems that are actually worth watching.
New shows the likes of Top Gear, QI, Horizon, Red Dwarf, and Monty Python will never get made which will be a shame.
Additionally, the BBC will eventually get sold on to a company that has a particular political leaning and that will be the end of one of the few news sources to try to remain neutral.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: fartymarty on April 08, 2020, 09:45:32 am
They also are funded by individual donations, corporate grants, fund raisers, etc.  So it is nowhere near 100% government funded.  Of course, trying to figure out how MUCH is government funding is apparently very difficult to determine.  Despite my [not terribly in-depth] research, I still don't know.  But I would guess it is more than 50%.

I'm not sure if there is controversy about the numbers they put out, but they (PBS) say 15% Federal funded. Now what year that's based on etc etc I don't know. So with State and local government adding to the mix it comes to around 31% and some small additional money from Universities some of which are surely Government funded.  The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is a Government created corporation which supports both PBS and NPR, I'm fairly certain that 100% of the corporation's money comes from the Federal government, but perhaps they have other assets I'm unaware of (i.e. too boring to research by me).

Although I'd hate to see PBS programing disappear, it's use of local broadcasting stations is becoming less and less relevant. As is broadcasting in general. At some point the money may be (depending on ones outlook of whether it should be spent at all) better spent on internet programming.

Here is some documentation I found but once I delved into it I started getting sleepy.  :P

https://www.cpb.org/files/aboutcpb/financials/audited/cpb_combinedstatements_fy19.pdf (https://www.cpb.org/files/aboutcpb/financials/audited/cpb_combinedstatements_fy19.pdf)

https://www.cpb.org/aboutcpb/financials (https://www.cpb.org/aboutcpb/financials)

(https://image.pbs.org/bento3-prod/pbsfoundation-bento-live-pbs/Brand%20Illustrations/da17a01e35_Funding_PieChart_NewBrand.png?resize=960x) (https://www.pbs.org/foundation/areas-of-focus/sustaining-pbs/)
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 08, 2020, 10:38:56 am
I'm back and fully liquored up so the party is over for now for ya'll....it's still in progress with me.  Let's keep this a clean fight with no hitting below the belt from anyone.  I'm going to read all this stuff and then make a determination on what I'm going to do with this thread or not.  I'm feeling much better now.


Reminder, postings in the Open area should not be politicized or polarized.  Don't care who you support or not but things have a tendency to get heated under those conditions.  We have an Arena for those that want to get crazy.  If you need access to it just let us know.   No attacks on anyone or what they believe will be tolerated in Open.  Keep it civil, please.
Title: Re: Corona virus.... the gift that keeps on giving
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 08, 2020, 10:55:55 am
Ok, I've read enough.  Topic locked.