Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: MGvaleri on December 03, 2012, 02:35:52 pm

Title: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 03, 2012, 02:35:52 pm
How many was that??
Fusion axle with suspension triangle. ( Tetra Lever)

http://youtu.be/yp0kQ-UtYwM (http://youtu.be/yp0kQ-UtYwM)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/1zwnbi9.jpg)

MGvalerioi. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: How many was that??
Post by: MGvaleri on December 04, 2012, 02:35:56 am
Trying to figure out what happened, new frames at the end of video.

http://youtu.be/TlLTAePregI (http://youtu.be/TlLTAePregI)


MGvalerio. :-[
Title: Re: How many was that??
Post by: MGvaleri on December 04, 2012, 02:48:57 am

This has happened to me has happened since returning home, mileage 460 km round trip made ​​in highway, for a meeting with an old friend former GTRista.

http://youtu.be/2BHAe2Zl1I8 (http://youtu.be/2BHAe2Zl1I8)

MGvalerio. :) :-[
Title: Re: How many was that??
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 04:24:51 am
So the axle nut didn't come off but it looks like the axle shaft seized?  Bearing go bad in the rear wheel?  I've never seen anything like what you are showing.  The rear rotor doesn't look scorched so I don't think it was a rock jamming the rear brake pedal.  I can't really tell, MG.  I've updated your subject line a bit to get some more views on this.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: reesedp on December 04, 2012, 07:08:04 am
Man, that looks like some SERIOUS heat forward and below the right side of the end of the axle.  That's crazy weird.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: MGvaleri on December 04, 2012, 07:55:32 am
http://youtu.be/y9pkDGna-dk (http://youtu.be/y9pkDGna-dk)


MGvalerio. :(
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 08:20:47 am
bearings or did you run over something?  That wheel shouldn't be wobbling like that.  Do me a favor and send a note to Ugo on what's going on and he can provide the translation. 
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Conrad on December 04, 2012, 08:24:50 am
 :yikes:
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: MGvaleri on December 04, 2012, 10:55:59 am
Tramite Email una rivista di Moto Italiana (MOTOCICLISMO) da me interpellata a già  informato la casa madre (KAWASAKI)del mio accaduto.
In seguito v'informerò dell'evolversi di tale evento avuto al mio C14 (GTR 1400)


MGvalerio.


Place Email one Italian Moto Rivista di (motorcycling) gives me a interpellata

informato home mom (KAWASAKI) accaduto of mine.

In seguito vi di tale informerò dell'evolversi avuto event to my C14 (GTR 1400)


MGvalerio.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 11:02:05 am
Not following you, MG  :'(
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: ugocon on December 04, 2012, 11:20:28 am
Valerio's saying that he e-mailed the most important Italian motorbike magazine, "Motociclismo", and that they assured him about having immediately informed Kawasaki about it.
He'll keep us posted about the evolution.

My personal comment is that even if it is out of warranty and the mileage is high, things like that should never happen!
If the bearings suddendly broke/cracked it's a very serious problem: bearings should just become worn out and create play but NEVER break!  :o

I'm curious to know the feedback from Kawasaki: if they're serious they should send an inspector.

Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 11:30:12 am
Thanks Ugo, you've saved the day again.  So it has to do with bearings, then.  Time to check mine.  I've had good luck on this bike, unlike the C10, with the bearings.  I do check them every year at least and so far (knock on wood) no issues.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: ugocon on December 04, 2012, 12:01:03 pm
I'm not 100% sure it has to do with bearings, but I don't see what else it could be!
When braking you hear the "cling" sound that is probably due to an eccessive play because somethig "structural" broke: what else if not the bearings??

Anyway, I think that Kawasaki has now plenty of clips to examine before sending an ispector: let's wait for their reply... not for too long, eh?   ;)
If needed I will contact them to push things forward.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Conrad on December 04, 2012, 12:06:24 pm
I'm not 100% sure it has to do with bearings, but I don't see what else it could be!
When braking you hear the "cling" sound that is probably due to an eccessive play because somethig "structural" broke: what else if not the bearings??

Anyway, I think that Kawasaki has now plenty of clips to examine before sending an ispector: let's wait for their reply... not for too long, eh?   ;)
If needed I will contact them to push things forward.

Good luck with that! At least you won't have to speak with Mark here in the US.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 12:16:20 pm
I think the contact name is Marco in Italy ::) .
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: jamiemac on December 04, 2012, 12:22:37 pm
Is it possible it may be the impacts from the two accidents the bike was involved in, that caused this?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Conrad on December 04, 2012, 12:24:43 pm
I think the contact name is Marco in Italy ::) .

 :rotflmao:
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: ugocon on December 04, 2012, 12:25:49 pm
Yeah, contact centers are the same all over the world!  ;D

I just spoke to Valerio on the phone and he confirmed that is the bearing
I also was doubtful if the small accidents he had could have had a role in this or if the mechanic had removed and mounted badly the rear wheel, but he excluded it.
He also told me that Kawasaki has already asked for the frame number of the bike.
Let's see... things are moving on.
 
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: mike-s4 on December 04, 2012, 12:34:09 pm
Looks like good old pressure washer damage to the bearing. The grease gets washed out and the bearing self destructs. MGvalerioi's bike always looked nice and clean!
Bearings are cheap and easy to change. He's lucky it did not cause an accident.
Title: Re: How many was that??
Post by: B.D.F. on December 04, 2012, 12:57:12 pm
It looks to me like the right axle bearing fried (horrifically overheated) and lost some of the needle rollers inside it. The interesting thing about those videos is that the rear wheel jumps out of alignment on the second revolution of the wheel, not each revolution. That indicates to me that what is left of the bearing is still rotating (probably just the needle retainer now and <maybe> a needle or two) and causing the oscillation to be out of time with the rear wheel. It also looks like the hub side of the rear wheel is supporting the rear wheel and causing it to turn pretty steadily and straight until the side- force from the brake application pulls the wheel away from that axis of rotation. I am not sure if this message will translate into Italian gracefully but I do not know how to make it much simpler and keep the meaning intact. ??

That bike is going to need a bunch of parts, perhaps including parts or even an entire new drive hub depending on how hot it got in there. The right axle mount is clearly shot as it badly overheated when the actual failure (I think bearing failure) happened. No doubt a new axle will be needed.

The usual mode of failure for wheel bearings is that the seal fails to seal, then contaminates enter the bearing itself and finally the bearing fails (rather than wears out). My 2008 C-14 is in need of a new rear wheel seal right now as a matter of fact. The wheel bearing is still fine but it won't stay that way for long unless sealed from water and road dust. By the way, I have replaced the front wheel bearing seals twice already on this bike and it is coming up on needing a set of front seals again, probably next summer.

I am not much for yelling about safety or becoming overly concerned about reasonably normal noises, wear, etc. but that is WAY, WAY outside of the normal envelope and needs to be fixed before riding the bike. Not sure how this will translate either but what you have there is NOT a Mary Jane Tinklepants situation.

Best of luck getting it fixed, and also good luck getting the factory to repair it. Not sure what Kawasaki's stance is going to be about this but it will be interesting to hear how it goes.

Brian


Trying to figure out what happened, new frames at the end of video.

[url]http://youtu.be/TlLTAePregI[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/TlLTAePregI[/url])


MGvalerio. :-[
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 01:07:23 pm
Looks like good old pressure washer damage to the bearing. The grease gets washed out and the bearing self destructs. MGvalerioi's bike always looked nice and clean!
Bearings are cheap and easy to change. He's lucky it did not cause an accident.

Absolutely no good comes from washing a bike...

 :offtopic:   I was in Fredericksburg today picking up a Soda Stream CO2 bottle today.  I had parked on an incline and was just about ready to leave when a gentleman stops and says 'nice....' and I can see he is thinking about what to call it and I stop him right there and say 'If you saw BMW, I'm going to have to kill you'.  I get a smile and he nods his head.  Then he says it looks really nice.  I smile back knowing that it hasn't been washed in at least 8 months or so and say 'Yeah, I keep it pretty clean' and then off I go chuckling all the while and thanking myself for buying a silverish bike that doesn't show the dirt...life is good.  No pressure washer for me.  I think I might hire my grandson to wash it next spring but only if it needs it.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Conrad on December 04, 2012, 01:14:29 pm
Snip...

I am not much for yelling about safety or becoming overly concerned about reasonably normal noises, wear, etc. but that is WAY, WAY outside of the normal envelope and needs to be fixed before riding the bike. Not sure how this will translate either but what you have there is NOT a Mary Jane Tinklepants situation.

Brian

Non sono molto per gridare di sicurezza o diventare eccessivamente preoccupato per rumori ragionevolmente normale, usura, ecc., ma che è via, via, di fuori della dotazione normale e deve essere risolto prima di guidare la moto. Non sono sicuro come questo si tradurrà sia ma quello che hai lì non è una situazione di Mary Jane Tinklepants.     ;D
Title: Re: How many was that??
Post by: ugocon on December 04, 2012, 01:18:27 pm
It looks to me like the right axle bearing fried (horrifically overheated) and lost some of the needle rollers inside it. The interesting thing about those videos is that the rear wheel jumps out of alignment on the second revolution of the wheel, not each revolution. That indicates to me that what is left of the bearing is still rotating (probably just the needle retainer now and <maybe> a needle or two) and causing the oscillation to be out of time with the rear wheel. It also looks like the hub side of the rear wheel is supporting the rear wheel and causing it to turn pretty steadily and straight until the side- force from the brake application pulls the wheel away from that axis of rotation. I am not sure if this message will translate into Italian gracefully but I do not know how to make it much simpler and keep the meaning intact. ??

That bike is going to need a bunch of parts, perhaps including parts or even an entire new drive hub depending on how hot it got in there. The right axle mount is clearly shot as it badly overheated when the actual failure (I think bearing failure) happened. No doubt a new axle will be needed.

The usual mode of failure for wheel bearings is that the seal fails to seal, then contaminates enter the bearing itself and finally the bearing fails (rather than wears out). My 2008 C-14 is in need of a new rear wheel seal right now as a matter of fact. The wheel bearing is still fine but it won't stay that way for long unless sealed from water and road dust. By the way, I have replaced the front wheel bearing seals twice already on this bike and it is coming up on needing a set of front seals again, probably next summer.

I am not much for yelling about safety or becoming overly concerned about reasonably normal noises, wear, etc. but that is WAY, WAY outside of the normal envelope and needs to be fixed before riding the bike. Not sure how this will translate either but what you have there is NOT a Mary Jane Tinklepants situation.

Best of luck getting it fixed, and also good luck getting the factory to repair it. Not sure what Kawasaki's stance is going to be about this but it will be interesting to hear how it goes.

Brian

Its exactly what it seems to me from the video.
Don't need to translate because that's what I just told valerio on the phone.
My concern is that Valerio knows his bike better than most of C14 owners and he never felt a typical behaviour of a bearing worn out because of dust or lack of grease.
He just noticed in his last trip that he was having an abnormal slightly higher than usual fuel waste (figure how sensitive he is ;)  ) and that when he slowed down on a winding road he heard a very feeble abnormal sound.
Luckily he stopped to check the rear wheel and noticed the disaster: one more cm of metal left and a pit hole or a higher speed could have caused a dramatic accident.
He had to call a towing truck to (slowly) bring back home his beloved bike  :(
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: mike-s4 on December 04, 2012, 01:19:46 pm
The rear wheel bearings are # 6304 UU. The UU means sealed both sides. 6304-2rs is the same(2 rubber seals..) It is a standard deep groove radial ball bearing. (no needles)  They are sold at any industrial supply . Lots of them on ebay for around 5 dollars.  Bearings last as long as the seals keep contamination out .
Pressure washing is the worst  thing to do to a bearing. That thing must have been making plenty of grinding/rumbling noise for a while. Surprised he didn't hear it. 
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 04, 2012, 01:28:39 pm
Sometimes noise build up gradually and you don't 'hear' them until it's too late.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: B.D.F. on December 04, 2012, 04:11:57 pm
Mia Culpa- I assumed they were needle bearings. Thanks for correcting that mistake.

Still though, the mode of failure and the results are the same as they would be for a needle bearing.

I agree completely about the seal failure leading to bearing failures, at least in such low speed use as something like a motorcycle wheel bearing. And while I also agree with the fact that the bearings are sealed from both sides, the real job of sealing the bearings in this application is the lip seal that is installed just beyond the bearing itself inside the wheel's hub. Once that lip seal fails it is only a matter of time before the smaller, less durable bearing seal(s) fail and debris finds its way into the bearing races.

By the way, for anyone who might be interested, the easiest way to tell if a lip seal is still functioning is to see if it holds the part that it seals against; if the from wheel axle spacers on a motorcycle are not held in place by the lip seals when the wheel is turned sideways then they are failing to seal the bearing behind them.

Brian


The rear wheel bearings are # 6304 UU. The UU means sealed both sides. 6304-2rs is the same(2 rubber seals..) It is a standard deep groove radial ball bearing. (no needles)  They are sold at any industrial supply . Lots of them on ebay for around 5 dollars.  Bearings last as long as the seals keep contamination out .
Pressure washing is the worst  thing to do to a bearing. That thing must have been making plenty of grinding/rumbling noise for a while. Surprised he didn't hear it.
Title: Re: How many was that??
Post by: B.D.F. on December 04, 2012, 04:15:43 pm
Thanks for letting us know that the information made it along to Valerio.

I am not really surprised that he did not notice the bearing fail because it happens all the time on the front end of autos; by the time the bearing(s) make any noise or in any make themselves known, they are simply destroyed and have been for some time. I have seen some really amazing hub failures that gave no real warning before actually being destroyed. The same thing goes for brake pads- sometimes when the pad material is worn away brakes will make noise immediately while other times the steel backing plates happily grind their way into the rotors with the vehicle acting amazingly normal.

Brian

Its exactly what it seems to me from the video.
Don't need to translate because that's what I just told valerio on the phone.
My concern is that Valerio knows his bike better than most of C14 owners and he never felt a typical behaviour of a bearing worn out because of dust or lack of grease.
He just noticed in his last trip that he was having an abnormal slightly higher than usual fuel waste (figure how sensitive he is ;)  ) and that when he slowed down on a winding road he heard a very feeble abnormal sound.
Luckily he stopped to check the rear wheel and noticed the disaster: one more cm of metal left and a pit hole or a higher speed could have caused a dramatic accident.
He had to call a towing truck to (slowly) bring back home his beloved bike  :(
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Scaffolder on December 04, 2012, 04:28:46 pm
Looks expensive!!!
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Rhino on December 04, 2012, 04:43:59 pm
Even if the bearings failed why does it look so messed up at the axle and swing arm? Could a bearing have seized and spun the axle? Then un-seized?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: B.D.F. on December 04, 2012, 05:23:07 pm
I have not seen the bike in person of course so just going by the videos.... it looks like the axle may have 'carved' a slot in the right hand support of the swingarm. The axle is riding in the top of that slot under no load conditions and actually does not look too bad until he applies the rear brake. The rear brake introduces a new force making the wheel and axle try to move away from the brake caliper and move out of the slot a bit. It would seem that there are pieces of the rear wheel bearing friction welded to something internally (the axle or perhaps the outer race of what is left of the wheel bearing) so that the axle then bumps into that part (those pieces?) on the way around and that is what is kicking the rear wheel away from the axis it is originally trying to turn on. Again, just a guess on my part based on the photos and videos that I have seen. One thing that I think is very certain is that a catastrophic failure has taken place in the rear wheel's hub and the damage is now probably spread beyond the hub itself. For example, with the wheel bumping off axis like that when the brake is applied, it is possible and maybe even likely that the rear rotor is now bent.

Brian


Even if the bearings failed why does it look so messed up at the axle and swing arm? Could a bearing have seized and spun the axle? Then un-seized?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: MGvaleri on December 04, 2012, 10:12:38 pm
One thing that I think is very certain is that a catastrophic failure has taken place in the rear wheel's hub and the damage is now probably spread beyond the hub itself. For example, with the wheel bumping off axis like that when the brake is applied, it is possible and maybe even likely that the rear rotor is now bent.

Brian

 :thumbs:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With heat sensors to the wheels I will ride again any Moto. ;)

MGvalerio. :-[
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: C1xRider on December 04, 2012, 11:53:01 pm
Clearly looks like a bearing failure.  Once they start to go, they can go quick.  I lost a front wheel bearing on my C10, and in just 30 miles, it almost competely ate the ball bearings.  Since then, I pull the seals on all new bearings and repack them with synthetic grease before installation.

If it were me, I would be replacing the right swing arm too.  It's probably just the paint burnt off, but given how warm it got, I'm not sure I would trust it.

Unfortunately for MGvaleri, Kawi doesn't even cover bearing failures under warranty.  Given his bike is out of warranty, he's probably stuck with the bill.

So how many miles (kilometers) were on these bearings?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: MGvaleri on December 05, 2012, 12:04:45 am

 C1xRider : So how many miles (kilometers) were on these bearings?

KM 47.000

MGvalerio.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: PH14 on December 05, 2012, 03:24:48 am
C1xRider : So how many miles (kilometers) were on these bearings?

KM 47.000

MGvalerio.

Wow, that is low miles/kilometers! I hope you get it fixed and are back riding quickly.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: pistole on December 05, 2012, 07:04:56 am
- my local shop recommends rear bearing replacements at 25K kms

.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Son of Pappy on December 05, 2012, 09:47:40 am
Any chance of pictures of the axle and hub removed from the bike?  I'd also be interested in the inside of the swingarm.  Just trying to get a better understanding of what happened.
MGvaleri, when was the last time you had the rear tire off the bike?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: cablebandit on December 05, 2012, 10:56:55 am
I blame the centerstand.   ;D
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: C1xRider on December 05, 2012, 11:10:58 am
C1xRider : So how many miles (kilometers) were on these bearings?

KM 47.000

MGvalerio.

Wow, that's only 29,200 miles!  Has the rear wheel taken any hard hits, like from really bad roads, or from a prior accident?  As I recall, you don't presure wash your bike.  I've had damage to trailer hubs and bearings from hitting bumps (more like holes in the road), but would not expect it on a bike.

Perhaps that bearing didn't get enough grease when it was made.  They don't put much in them to start with (actually scary how little they have).  I believe it's pre-planned obsolescence.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear axle shaft seizing?
Post by: Conrad on December 05, 2012, 11:32:21 am
Wow, that's only 29,200 miles!  Has the rear wheel taken any hard hits, like from really bad roads, or from a prior accident?  As I recall, you don't presure wash your bike.  I've had damage to trailer hubs and bearings from hitting bumps (more like holes in the road), but would not expect it on a bike.

Perhaps that bearing didn't get enough grease when it was made.  They don't put much in them to start with (actually scary how little they have).  I believe it's pre-planned obsolescence.

MG has had his bike hit twice while parked. I don't know the details though.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: fartymarty on December 05, 2012, 11:35:35 am
I blame the centerstand.   ;D
   :rotflmao:

Did you notice the spacer needed under the stand so the wheel would spin?

Sorry MG, I had to laugh at that.

So what would happen if a brake piston on one side locked and the the rear brake was only applying pressure
from the other side (from the video the inboard side), causing excessive bearing pressure/failure, disc deflection, heat and swing arm flex.
Too far fetched? Yeah I guess so, disc would have warped or carriers broke before bearing failure, right?

Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Cold Streak on December 05, 2012, 12:25:01 pm
Quote
Perhaps that bearing didn't get enough grease when it was made.  They don't put much in them to start with (actually scary how little they have).  I believe it's pre-planned obsolescence.

Very possible, but more grease isn't always better.  If you put too much in, it just squeezes out past the seals right away.

I'm thinking I better put new bearings and seals on the wheels next time I get new tires.  My spacers don't pass the test proposed by BDF any longer.  I've got 45k miles on these bearings/seals and have ridden in the rain plenty of times.  No pressure washing though.  Ever.   :yikes:
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 05, 2012, 01:01:56 pm
You should check for your year bike but I have the following for the 08/09 bikes:

Front seals (2) 92049-0050
Rear seal (1) 92049-1061

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1650.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1650.0)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 05, 2012, 01:07:04 pm
La mia C14 ha avuto una manutenzione fuori da ogni vostra immaginazione: Chi di voi a fatto manutenzione al Cardano ..io si,per dirne una,chi vi ha avvisato della ruggine sotto serbatoio,ragazzi forse non riuscite a comprendere il tutto,chi vi a detto che senza transponder vi rubo la moto in 2 minuti, senza fare danni alla vostra amata,ho sempre percorso brevissimi  tragitti ,la mia C14 ha il suo garage riscaldato, i 2 sinistri avuti sono sciocchezze,mi spiace dirlo ma Kawasaki a montato cuscinetti
come i dischi freno,mai viaggiato quando piove,mai preso buche,lavaggi moto fatti con esperienza,dopo il lavaggio aria compressa a GOGO.
Se la mia C 14 fosse stata adoperata per come è nata a 5.000 km ciò successo oggi sarebbe successo dopo 2 mesi di vita.
Qualcuno vorrebbe vedere lasse della ruota,non posso fare niente perché sto aspettando ispettore Kawasaki,già ne sono in contatto.
Fratelli Occhio con questi CUSCINETTI.

MGvalerio. 8)

Ugocon dove sei,non mandarmi a quel paese.


MGvalerio. :-[
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: C1xRider on December 05, 2012, 05:31:43 pm
La mia C14 ha avuto una manutenzione fuori da ogni vostra immaginazione: Chi di voi a fatto manutenzione al Cardano ..io si,per dirne una,chi vi ha avvisato della ruggine sotto serbatoio,ragazzi forse non riuscite a comprendere il tutto,chi vi a detto che senza transponder vi rubo la moto in 2 minuti, senza fare danni alla vostra amata,ho sempre percorso brevissimi  tragitti ,la mia C14 ha il suo garage riscaldato, i 2 sinistri avuti sono sciocchezze,mi spiace dirlo ma Kawasaki a montato cuscinetti
come i dischi freno,mai viaggiato quando piove,mai preso buche,lavaggi moto fatti con esperienza,dopo il lavaggio aria compressa a GOGO.
Se la mia C 14 fosse stata adoperata per come è nata a 5.000 km ciò successo oggi sarebbe successo dopo 2 mesi di vita.
Qualcuno vorrebbe vedere lasse della ruota,non posso fare niente perché sto aspettando ispettore Kawasaki,già ne sono in contatto.
Fratelli Occhio con questi CUSCINETTI.

MGvalerio. 8)

Ugocon dove sei,non mandarmi a quel paese.


MGvalerio. :-[

Per Google Translate :

My C14 had a maintenance out of all your imagination: Those of you who did maintenance at the Cardano you .. I, for one, who hath warned of rust in the tank, you guys maybe you can not understand the whole, those who said that without a transponder will steal the bike in 2 minutes, without doing damage to your beloved, I always run short distances, my C14 has its own heated garage, i had 2 claims are nonsense, sorry to say but Kawasaki mounted bearings as the brake discs ever traveled when it rains, never got holes, washing bikes made ​​with experience, after washing compressed air GOGO.
If my C 14 had been used as it is born in 5000 km what happened today was going to happen after 2 months of life.
Some would like to see the wheel loose, I can not do anything because I'm waiting inspector Kawasaki, already are in contact.
Brothers eye with these BEARINGS.


I mostly understand it, I think, except the first couple sentences...
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: C1xRider on December 05, 2012, 05:39:38 pm
Very possible, but more grease isn't always better.  If you put too much in, it just squeezes out past the seals right away.

...

Totally agree, but when you look at the minuscule amount some of the bearing manufacturers put in there, you would be shocked.  You also have to allow for expansion of the grease you put in due to temperature increase when in use.

I don't overdo it, just make sure it has an adequate reserve amount.  I have over 25K on my C10 front wheel bearings, and the wheel still rotates smooth, quiet, and freely (with the callipers removed).  The rule of thumb I heard for that bike was to replace the wheel bearings every time you replaced the front tire.  I've only replaced them once, front tire several times.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: pistole on December 05, 2012, 07:54:40 pm
- my local shop fellow recommend rear bearing replacements at 25K kms (15,500 miles) because they have seen failures at higher mileages. They speculate that its because of the weight of the bike coupled with high speed long distance cruising.

- bearings are cheap.

.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: C1xRider on December 05, 2012, 08:40:50 pm
It's cheap insurance I guess, especially if you buy your bearings in any quantity like I do (I usually buy a minimum of 10 to get a price break).  They don't have a shelf life that I'm aware of, and most of the bearings are used in many different places.  The C10 front wheel bearings are also used in my lawn mower deck (3), my hot tub motor (2), and my snowmobile boggie wheels (forget how many).

However, if a bearing is working fine, I'd rather let it keep working instead of introducing a potential 'new' problem.  Replacing it with a new bearing 'just because', is not for me.  Part of that "if it ain't broke, ..." philosophy.

The rear C14 bearings are pretty stout, and I really doubt they wear out early because of load.  I suspect it's primarily because they run dry (lack of grease).

We should start a poll to see how many have replaced their rear bearings, and how many miles people have on their bearings.  I've been around here for several years, and don't recall ever seeing a thread warning people to replace their bearings.  I've been operating under the premise that they haven't been failing, and haven't been changed.  We also need to hear from some of the higher mileage bike owners about what they've been doing.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 06, 2012, 01:24:54 am
La mia C14 ha avuto una manutenzione fuori da ogni vostra immaginazione: Chi di voi a fatto manutenzione al Cardano ..io si,per dirne una,chi vi ha avvisato della ruggine sotto serbatoio,ragazzi forse non riuscite a comprendere il tutto,chi vi a detto che senza transponder vi rubo la moto in 2 minuti, senza fare danni alla vostra amata,ho sempre percorso brevissimi  tragitti ,la mia C14 ha il suo garage riscaldato, i 2 sinistri avuti sono sciocchezze,mi spiace dirlo ma Kawasaki a montato cuscinetti
come i dischi freno,mai viaggiato quando piove,mai preso buche,lavaggi moto fatti con esperienza,dopo il lavaggio aria compressa a GOGO.
Se la mia C 14 fosse stata adoperata per come è nata a 5.000 km ciò successo oggi sarebbe successo dopo 2 mesi di vita.
Qualcuno vorrebbe vedere lasse della ruota,non posso fare niente perché sto aspettando ispettore Kawasaki,già ne sono in contatto.
Fratelli Occhio con questi CUSCINETTI.

MGvalerio. 8)

Ugocon dove sei,non mandarmi a quel paese.


MGvalerio. :-[

Very hard to translate because I find it hard to understand in Italian.  :o
But I know Valerio's style  ;) and can sum it up:
"I never adopted any of the hazardous behaviours that could lead to damage the bearings: high pressure water, wrong mounting of the wheel, riding in the rain, etc.
I treated my C14 well as nobody else did.
I can't touch anything now because I'm waiting for an inspection by Kawasaki: things are progressing."

For what I know of Valerio, I think he could hold a course to Kawasaki mechanics about the bike!  ;D
Thus I strongly doubt that what happend is due to mistakes by Valerio.
But anything is possible...  ::)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 06, 2012, 10:41:23 am
One thing to rule out is the lack of grease in the wheel bearing.
http://youtu.be/vdFyP0eE4VA (http://youtu.be/vdFyP0eE4VA)
MGvalerio. :-[
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Rhino on December 06, 2012, 12:08:48 pm
Maybe he parked too close to a BMW ;D
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 06, 2012, 12:45:26 pm
That explains everything.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 08, 2012, 12:00:52 pm
Inizio lavori.

http://youtu.be/LKHV0xJiYC8 (http://youtu.be/LKHV0xJiYC8)
MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on December 08, 2012, 02:11:19 pm
 :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :popcorn:
I THINK AT THE END OF THE VID the answer of what happened can be found...
Appears the axle itself had spun in the swingarm, for a LONG period of time, and ended up egg-shaping the hole, and finally welding itself to the casting..... the result of not tightening the castled nut, but still installing the cotterpin.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ZG on December 08, 2012, 07:40:16 pm
 :o
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Conrad on December 09, 2012, 07:57:56 am
Seeing someone take a hack saw to Connie makes me SO sad.    :'(
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: gPink on December 09, 2012, 08:02:22 am
Would a SawzAll have been better?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: C1xRider on December 09, 2012, 09:53:09 am
Thanks MG, I was wondering what the inside of that swing arm looked like.   ::)

So what did Kawasaki say about it?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on December 09, 2012, 10:05:05 am
Would a SawzAll have been better?

I'm sure part #2 is forthcoming, where the sawzall is used to cut the axle at a point between the brake caliper, and the outer arm he just "modified" , ....doesn't look to be much choice now to get that axle out without doing that.... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: gPink on December 09, 2012, 10:26:16 am
That axle will be a bitch to cut.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 09, 2012, 01:02:17 pm


So what did Kawasaki say about it?

Silent, silent. :deadhorse:


MGvalerio.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 09, 2012, 01:07:41 pm
Ho un nuovo videoclip,il cuscinetto non ha più 4 sfere,dove sono andate,polverizzate??? non direi!!!
MGvalerio. :-[
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 09, 2012, 03:28:46 pm
http://youtu.be/wCh1uYLHTX0 (http://youtu.be/wCh1uYLHTX0)

MGvalerio. >:(
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: gPink on December 09, 2012, 03:46:22 pm
MG, you really ought to replace that bearing while you have it apart.  ;)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Son of Pappy on December 09, 2012, 06:03:35 pm
How does the left side look?  I'm thinking MOB hit the nail on the head.  Even the best mechanic makes an assembly error, it just happens.  Here's to hopping the drive hub survived, just make sure it's checked carefully.  I think I'd be looking for a donor bike to fix the rear end.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: blue14 on December 09, 2012, 06:35:27 pm
Brutta, veramente brutta
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 10, 2012, 03:55:35 am
That's scary! :o
It seems that some spheres are missing.... or have they just vapourized??
That's definitely one thing Kawasaki should investigate about
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 10, 2012, 04:19:01 am
 Operation successful for removing wheel, new video being processed. ; A
MGvalerio. ;D
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 10, 2012, 05:58:06 am
Il migliore FAI DA TE Italiano ahahahahahahahah :stirpot:

http://youtu.be/L6KiBJlPxsM (http://youtu.be/L6KiBJlPxsM)

MGvalerio 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Boomer on December 10, 2012, 07:57:53 am
Yup, looks like the bearing cage broke up and seized the wheel to the axle.
This then resulted in the whole axle turning which melted/milled it's way through the swingarm.
So, parts list will be
Right "boomerang" part of the swingarm + new bolts
Axle + castle nut
Bearings
Brake carrier.

Could have been worse if that wheel locked up for even a moment.  :yikes:
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 10, 2012, 10:38:11 am
Yup, looks like the bearing cage broke up and seized the wheel to the axle.
This then resulted in the whole axle turning which melted/milled it's way through the swingarm.
So, parts list will be
Right "boomerang" part of the swingarm + new bolts
Axle + castle nut
Bearings
Brake carrier.

Could have been worse if that wheel locked up for even a moment.  :yikes:

:thumbs: :hail:Boomer

MGvalerio 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Rhino on December 10, 2012, 10:45:38 am
Yup, looks like the bearing cage broke up and seized the wheel to the axle.
This then resulted in the whole axle turning which melted/milled it's way through the swingarm.
So, parts list will be
Right "boomerang" part of the swingarm + new bolts
Axle + castle nut
Bearings
Brake carrier.

Could have been worse if that wheel locked up for even a moment.  :yikes:

 :thumbs: Yup, what I said when I first saw this. Makes me want to replace my wheel bearings this winter.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 10, 2012, 11:08:27 am
I have created alarm, my problem was a 4 ball bearing with missing source.
Check the new bearings that we all spheres, is a very rare but not impossible, this is my message to truth. ;)


MGvalerio. 8)


Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: tbanzer on December 10, 2012, 06:15:58 pm
I didnt look at everything posted but was there a spacer between the two bearings?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 10, 2012, 10:38:39 pm
I didnt look at everything posted but was there a spacer between the two bearings?

Yes.


MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Boomer on December 11, 2012, 04:48:36 am
I think what MG is saying is that this bearing was badly made.
He says that the remaining balls are all round but that 4 balls were missing.
Now if those balls had disintegrated then there would be gritty grease in there and the remaining balls would be scored and pitted.

What in fact happened was poor assembly of the bearing with 4 balls missing.
Chances are the rest of the balls were evenly distributed so it ran for a while.
Then, under stress (heat, load) the cage collapsed into the gaps where the missing balls should have been and that locked the bearing, spinning the axle and causing the damage.

Moral of the story is when changing your bearings, pop one of the dust seals off and check that yer balls are where they should be.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Conrad on December 11, 2012, 04:56:00 am
Nothing worse than having your balls go missing.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: gPink on December 11, 2012, 05:02:31 am
Are we to assume this is an oem bearing? And it ran how many miles with four balls missing?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 11, 2012, 06:22:29 am
I think what MG is saying is that this bearing was badly made.
He says that the remaining balls are all round but that 4 balls were missing.
Now if those balls had disintegrated then there would be gritty grease in there and the remaining balls would be scored and pitted.

What in fact happened was poor assembly of the bearing with 4 balls missing.
Chances are the rest of the balls were evenly distributed so it ran for a while.
Then, under stress (heat, load) the cage collapsed into the gaps where the missing balls should have been and that locked the bearing, spinning the axle and causing the damage.

Moral of the story is when changing your bearings, pop one of the dust seals off and check that yer balls are where they should be.

 :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: gPink on December 11, 2012, 06:35:08 am
In a drive shaft as the GTR 1400 bearings are used to spin the wheel, and suffer less from km facts and loads, or understand this or do not give a right of information security. ;)


Mgvalerio. 8)
Was this the original Kawasaki bearing? How many miles on the bike?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 11, 2012, 09:08:44 am
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11808.msg144696#msg144696 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11808.msg144696#msg144696)  For the mileage...
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: gPink on December 11, 2012, 09:10:15 am
Thanks
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 11, 2012, 10:28:54 am
Was this the original Kawasaki bearing? How many miles on the bike?


I km percorsi col C14 non fanno testo a questa mia informazione di prevenzione,il mio cuscinetto non si è rotto per i km percorsi ma per mancanza di sfere 4 al suo interno...capito.


http://www.youtube.com/embed/8dHoxsnvdcs (http://www.youtube.com/embed/8dHoxsnvdcs)


MGvalerio. 8)



Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Rhino on December 11, 2012, 10:43:20 am
So the question is: will Kawasaki help you out with the cost of fixing the bike?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 11, 2012, 11:03:57 am
So the question is: will Kawasaki help you out with the cost of fixing the bike?

Kawasaki sa tutto    :MUTA FU: (Dialetto Siciliano)

Kawasaki knows All: DUMB FU: (Sicilian dialect

MGvalerio    :cannon:         Kawasaki.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 11, 2012, 11:31:19 am
I'm thinking not based on MG's reply..

Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 11, 2012, 02:30:26 pm
From the Forum English I have pointed out that even the broken bearing in seven balls as the other, beautiful oversight that I had, now I do not understand how you can break the cages that hold the ball being broken bearing well lubricated.

MGvalerio. :o
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 11, 2012, 02:39:42 pm
It's possible it was bad from the factory, I guess.   If it had broke within the warranty period you would have had it covered.  Now, not so much unfortunately.  You could push it higher up and possibly retain a lawyer but I think it would be less to fix it assuming someone of your skills.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 11, 2012, 02:44:38 pm
It's possible it was bad from the factory, I guess.   If it had broke within the warranty period you would have had it covered.  Now, not so much unfortunately.  You could push it higher up and possibly retain a lawyer but I think it would be less to fix it assuming someone of your skills.

Con 430 euro Jim  ;D risolvo,in più la concessionaria mi farà un prezzo di favore per i ricambi.

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: blue14 on December 12, 2012, 05:29:11 pm
Probably Chineese bearings....
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: pistole on December 12, 2012, 07:49:56 pm
- imho , its impossible for the bearing to come with missing balls.

- its more likely that the bearing failed in use : pitting of the races and then destroying the balls.

.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Son of Pappy on December 13, 2012, 12:09:38 am
Ask yourself this.  What would happen if the axle nut was loose, lets say the spacer got hung up during assembly somehow, the nut felt tight, but once moving it freed itself.  What will that new gap create?  I really do believe this was an assembly error, we all make em.  Bottom line is for whatever reason MG survived to ride another day.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 13, 2012, 02:17:36 am
Son of Pappy :)

 well as removing it the nut you can not create a fusion of the genre, this can happen to change the alignment of the stem with bearing failure. ;)

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 13, 2012, 09:02:45 am
Prevention is better than cure!
Maintenance of bearings in the parade.

http://youtu.be/i93aDn5_8J4 (http://youtu.be/i93aDn5_8J4)

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Cold Streak on December 13, 2012, 09:27:33 am
I agree with Pistole.  It's nearly impossible for the bearing to be supplied with missing balls and if had been, you would have known it long before the mileage you accumulated.  Usually bearings fail by overheating and eating the ball cage.  Once that happens, the balls can disintegrate or pop out of the bearing.  The process for assembling a ball bearing is to put all the balls in, then put the ball cage/spacer around them.  Your missing balls are probably laying alongside the road someplace or in your wife's purse like most married guys.  I got mine back as part of the divorce agreement, but I digress...

 ;D
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Son of Pappy on December 13, 2012, 10:33:02 am
Humor time.  ZG, take note, this is a black bike :stirpot:
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ZG on December 13, 2012, 12:26:34 pm
Humor time.  ZG, take note, this is a black bike :stirpot:

 :o
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: McJunkie on December 14, 2012, 05:20:32 am
After watching that video, that would explain some things
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 14, 2012, 07:02:47 am
After watching that video, that would explain some things


This my fat pad of C14 which is broken does not know what it is.

http://youtu.be/ulfbLivNcJU (http://youtu.be/ulfbLivNcJU)

Thanks Kawasaki.

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: tbanzer on December 15, 2012, 09:15:54 pm
Ask yourself this.  What would happen if the axle nut was loose, lets say the spacer got hung up during assembly somehow, the nut felt tight, but once moving it freed itself.  What will that new gap create?  I really do believe this was an assembly error, we all make em.  Bottom line is for whatever reason MG survived to ride another day.
I dont see anytrhing happening if axle was loose. The bearings would just be free to move slightly on the shaft. Either a quality isue withe bearing at time of manufacture, contamination introduced during its use, or overheated lubricant.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: McJunkie on December 16, 2012, 03:53:39 am
I agree with what someone said previously about not torquing the rear axle correctly causing it to spin. Don't need much elongation of the hole to over stress the bearing.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 16, 2012, 04:45:18 am
:nuts:I agree with what someone said previously about not torquing the rear axle correctly causing it to spin. Don't need much elongation of the hole to over stress the bearing. :loco:


 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
http://youtu.be/HCTL1eBRsl4 (http://youtu.be/HCTL1eBRsl4)
MGvalerio. ;)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 16, 2012, 07:06:03 am
Or maybe the bearings just went bad...  It could have been any number of things to cause this, but look on the bright side, MG, now you have something to do in your spare time.   ;)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: pistole on December 16, 2012, 07:20:57 am
- MG , what was the blinkin' point of that vid of yours above ?

.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Conrad on December 16, 2012, 07:42:51 am
- MG , what was the blinkin' point of that vid of yours above ?

.

Are you saying that MG needs a point to post videos?    :o     ;)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 16, 2012, 08:26:05 am
All of his videos have a point, Conrad.  The fun is figuring them out.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Conrad on December 16, 2012, 08:39:06 am
All of his videos have a point, Conrad.  The fun is figuring them out.

That's true Jim but one man's fun is another man's, er, um, help me out here...   ???
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Rhino on December 16, 2012, 10:22:55 am
To understand the point of the last video we must first understand what is meant by "bolt lens". I don't have the foggiest idea.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 16, 2012, 10:29:42 am
Now this is fun!
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 16, 2012, 11:47:13 am
Now this is fun!
:rotflmao: :chugbeer: :rotflmao:
It's funny, I understand you, you do not understand me.
So my fault is only due to breakage of the bearing due to the lack of fat (lubricant).

MGvalerio. :rotflmao:
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 16, 2012, 11:49:02 am
To understand the point of the last video we must first understand what is meant by "bolt lens". I don't have the foggiest idea.

I assume it is "loose bolt" ;)

Just to explain to whom is interested, in Italian the adjective "loose" is translated "lento", that means also "slow" and in this form is far more used.
There's also a noun very similar, that is "lente" and means "lens" (optical)

Clearly, Google translator uses maximum likehood criteria for traslating thus it "rounded"  lento to lente... and that's it!   :D
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 17, 2012, 09:39:06 am
These unknown .. well on Manual: Operation and Maintenance: Kawasaki

Not words but deeds. ;)

http://youtu.be/1sC_-EYsiiE (http://youtu.be/1sC_-EYsiiE)

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: connie1 on December 17, 2012, 12:42:23 pm
I'm no expert but the left bearing looks like water damage to me.  But if MG stated that he never pressure washed it then the lack of lube from factory must be the case.
I rarely open sealed bearings as I'm usually confident of them having enough lube from factory...but this ruins that confidence and I guess I'll go in and repack all my wheel bearings this winter (especially after seeing the damage that not doing it could do).

I usually use Shell moly grease in most applications but with high speed bearings is there something better?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: B.D.F. on December 17, 2012, 05:44:36 pm
I am not sure if the bearing failure was caused by an assembly error or not but it is hard for me to believe that a fully tightened axle could turn inside the right hand swingarm. Assuming the sequence of events started with a bearing failure, the worst thing that could have happened would have been for the inner and outer races of the bearing locking together (i.e., siezing); after that I believe the bearing would have been ripped out of the wheel bearing bore before the axle would have turned inside the swingarm. Not to throw rocks at anyone, and I don't know the ultimate start of the failure but I also believe the axle must not have been tightened for this series of failures to happen.

Brian

Ask yourself this.  What would happen if the axle nut was loose, lets say the spacer got hung up during assembly somehow, the nut felt tight, but once moving it freed itself.  What will that new gap create?  I really do believe this was an assembly error, we all make em.  Bottom line is for whatever reason MG survived to ride another day.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 17, 2012, 11:49:44 pm
I am not sure if the bearing failure was caused by an assembly error or not but it is hard for me to believe that a fully tightened axle could turn inside the right hand swingarm. Assuming the sequence of events started with a bearing failure, the worst thing that could have happened would have been for the inner and outer races of the bearing locking together (i.e., siezing); after that I believe the bearing would have been ripped out of the wheel bearing bore before the axle would have turned inside the swingarm. Not to throw rocks at anyone, and I don't know the ultimate start of the failure but I also believe the axle must not have been tightened for this series of failures to happen.

Brian
[/quote
Conoscete voi  come è fatto l'insieme ruota per girare ??? credo proprio di no , asse ,copri asse,cuscinetti,dado!!!, Smontate da voi il  C 14 !!!,vi mostrerò con video clip l'insieme
Vi siete chiesti !...un solo C14 in  5 anni di vita in quelle condizioni 
Dado non stretto bene !!! ho  percorso 14.000 km da l'ultimo cambio treno gomme.

Con dado non stretto non avrei avuto tutto quel disastro,ripeto la causa sta per come è
l'insieme ruota,pernio,copri pernio,cuscinetti.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 18, 2012, 12:57:54 am

Conoscete voi  come è fatto l'insieme ruota per girare ??? credo proprio di no , asse ,copri asse,cuscinetti,dado!!!, Smontate da voi il  C 14 !!!,vi mostrerò con video clip l'insieme
Vi siete chiesti !...un solo C14 in  5 anni di vita in quelle condizioni 
Dado non stretto bene !!! ho  percorso 14.000 km da l'ultimo cambio treno gomme.

Con dado non stretto non avrei avuto tutto quel disastro,ripeto la causa sta per come è
l'insieme ruota,pernio,copri pernio,cuscinetti.

Stai dicendo che è assemblata male all'origine??

Are you saying that the assembly of the whole group (wheel, axle, bearings, covers)  is not well designed???

Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 18, 2012, 03:36:18 am
Stai dicendo che è assemblata male all'origine??

Are you saying that the assembly of the whole group (wheel, axle, bearings, covers)  is not well designed???


Sto cercando di fare capire che loro non conoscono bene come è fatto tutto l'insieme della  ruota del C14 con cuscinetti,con il  pernio,il dado e cilindri che ricoprono il pernio ruota.
Dalle loro risposte o dedotto che ...  non abbiamo mai smontato tale reparto in ogni suo particolare del funzionamento per come gira la ruota in una trasmissione cardanica.(Vedere Video Clip )
Col Video Clip sarà sfatato  che serrare  il dado del fermo pernio ruota in  2 modi,..nel 1° caso di stringerlo poco,non 120nm ma a 40nm,nessun gioco,nel 2 stringere come è prescritto,in tutte e 2 i casi non si fa altro che nel 1° caso di non mettere in tensione  la filettatura del pernio,nel secondo caso metti in tensione  la filettatura del pernio ruota,essendoci una coppiglia di fermo dado del pernio ruota,l'allenta-mento non può verificarsi,quindi un cedimento di un solo cuscinetto del pernio ruota come nel mio caso a creato uno spostamento delle sfere spostando il  fulcro che deve rimanere parallelo dall'asse del tetra lever  a la corona del giunto cardanico,in queste condizioni il pernio ruota girerà sulle sue piattaforme (T.L/ C.G.Ca/d'ancoraggio ,il pernio ruota  non può essere stretto più del necessario causa tolleranze fisse che sono determinatedalle  lunghezze interne cilindriche del copri pernio ruota.
Dopo questa dimostrazione in v.clip ...chiudo... ,  la meccanica non è un'opinione ma un dado di fatto,EGR.ING.Ugocon.Grazie.. ;D


http://youtu.be/SAKFeOIzPPw (http://youtu.be/SAKFeOIzPPw)

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 18, 2012, 08:29:30 am
I talked to Valerio otherwise no way to understand...  ::)

Recapping the WHOLE story according to Valerio:

The original failure that led to the "disaster" is defective right bearings.
The number of spheres inside is correct, the problem is that it has been mounted with no grease at all!
When I opened both the bearings, the right one was without grease whilst the left one had still a fairly amount of grease.
Possible objection: no, the grease has been removed by high pressure water, you dumbass  ;D
Impossible, because when the grease is present, the water simply slips away over the thin grease layer; moreover the bearing covers adequately protect the bearings from direct exposure to high pressure water (they were intact)
Why then it happened after 45.000 kms???
I never rode the bike for long rides, only around my place: short and frequent tirps and at an average low speed.
This generated a minor overheating effect and  the bearings lasted longer.
Yes, but you should have heard a progressive deterioration of the bearings, some kind of noise....
No, because this would happen only for normal wear with grease. The lack of grease has instead generated overheating, not the usual play/noise, that ended up in the sudden "disaster"
No, it's a matter of how tight you tightened the axle: when you changed your tyre...
14.000 kms ago??? and it lasted that long with no perceivable sign???
In my last clip I show you that tightening more or less is seamless because in the end there's a cotter pin locking everything thus a loosening cannot happen.

What did we learn from this??
Better to check when you change your tyres that the bearings are provided with grease! ;)


Hope I understood correctly and, most important, clearly reported to you! :)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Rhino on December 18, 2012, 09:25:41 am
Got it. Lack of grease caused the failure and it didn't reveal itself until a long ride. Since my bike has >50,000 kilometers and much of it high speed long distance I can assume my bearings have grease. My question for all is: can the seal be removed and then reinstalled without damage? If so I can check and repack at the next tire change.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 18, 2012, 09:33:20 am
Got it. Lack of grease caused the failure and it didn't reveal itself until a long ride. Since my bike has >50,000 kilometers and much of it high speed long distance I can assume my bearings have grease. My question for all is: can the seal be removed and then reinstalled without damage? If so I can check and repack at the next tire change.

Yes ,can the seal be removed and then reinstalled without damage .

MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: pistole on December 18, 2012, 09:35:41 am
- wait , is it right that the dude is saying that his rear wheel bearing survived 45000 kms (28000 miles) without any grease ?

.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 18, 2012, 10:09:37 am
- wait , is it right that the dude is saying that his rear wheel bearing survived 45000 kms (28000 miles) without any grease ?

.


The higher load is supported ... see photos.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/muc0mv.jpg)     Il mio filmato 17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTL1eBRsl4#)

MGvalerio 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 18, 2012, 02:15:02 pm
- wait , is it right that the dude is saying that his rear wheel bearing survived 45000 kms (28000 miles) without any grease ?

.

Yes, because most of the weight is supported by the cardan shaft on the left side (see clips above)
This plus always short trips helped the right bearings to last that long.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 19, 2012, 07:10:09 am
Arrived parts, but lacking holder clamp and a seal, because Christmas holidays shipments for spare parts to resume new year, or to suffer a little.

Success, I added grease to the two new bearings.

http://youtu.be/GZtXyvujDrQ (http://youtu.be/GZtXyvujDrQ)
MGvalerio. 8)

Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on December 19, 2012, 11:35:06 am
I am not sure if the bearing failure was caused by an assembly error or not but it is hard for me to believe that a fully tightened axle could turn inside the right hand swingarm. Assuming the sequence of events started with a bearing failure, the worst thing that could have happened would have been for the inner and outer races of the bearing locking together (i.e., siezing); after that I believe the bearing would have been ripped out of the wheel bearing bore before the axle would have turned inside the swingarm. Not to throw rocks at anyone, and I don't know the ultimate start of the failure but I also believe the axle must not have been tightened for this series of failures to happen.

Brian

Bingo Brian....
I said this right from the start.....and stand by it still.... ;) :chugbeer:
 :popcorn:

I'll explain for the rest.... ::)
the axle, when tightened fully in position, is compressing the stack of spacers,bearing center races, and swingarm intoan imovable "column"....the rotating components are supported on the balls, and outer races.... no mater if the bearing fails, the axle shaft CANNOT rotate if tightened fully. One of the vids showed that the spacer that reside between the brake caliper, and the wheel bearing, was totally welded onto the axle, as was the swingarm on the other side of the caliper....that could not have occured unless the axle was not tightened. The cotterpin is moot....the nut was not tight. ;)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: McJunkie on December 19, 2012, 11:48:50 am
Bingo Brian....
I said this right from the start.....and stand by it still.... ;) :chugbeer:
 :popcorn:

I'll explain for the rest.... ::)
the axle, when tightened fully in position, is compressing the stack of spacers,bearing center races, and swingarm intoan imovable "column"....the rotating components are supported on the balls, and outer races.... no mater if the bearing fails, the axle shaft CANNOT rotate if tightened fully. One of the vids showed that the spacer that reside between the brake caliper, and the wheel bearing, was totally welded onto the axle, as was the swingarm on the other side of the caliper....that could not have occured unless the axle was not tightened. The cotterpin is moot....the nut was not tight. ;)

+2
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 19, 2012, 11:26:32 pm
the opposite is true ... if the spacer fused to the pivot was not tightened properly did not happen and the revolution of the merger.
The mechanics is not an opinion.


MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Rhino on December 20, 2012, 10:35:44 am
the opposite is true ... if the spacer fused to the pivot was not tightened properly did not happen and the revolution of the merger.
The mechanics is not an opinion.


MGvalerio. 8)

He's got a point. If the axle welded to the spacer it means the axle spun but the spacer didn't. If not properly tight, wouldn't the spacer spin with the axle?
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Pepsi Supplier on December 20, 2012, 11:42:26 am
 I have seen wheel bearings go bad and do the same thing, even with the axle properly tightened. So I wouldn't jump to installer error too quickly, But I also don't believe for a minute that the bearing came missing balls or without lube and lasted more than a few hundred miles regardless how short the trips were. I find it much more likely the grease burned away when the bearing failed.
 See the pitting and rust on the axle and inside the bearing. water intrusion from some means. Sure the bearings come with precious little grease in them, but introduce moisture and rust will follow.

Personally I remove the rubber shield and repack mine every few tire changes on the front and a little less often on the rear. I hardly ever wash my bike, but I ride in plenty of rain.

I also don't suscribe wholly to the outer dust seal being a contributor, as I raced for 12 years and removed those immediately for less rolling friction and ran the same race bike with the same wheel bearings for 6 years. I would easily clock over 5000 miles per year between practice and races and twice each year the bike would run in a 5 hour endurance race and then also run a 3 hour endurance race. Back then I did not know or do nearly as much maintenance to my bikes as I do now. I would be willing to state that it is highly likely that I never removed the bearing seal to repack the actual bearing. Come to think of it, my SV had steel seals on the bearing itself.
 The inside of the wheel has no dust shield. Just the big gaps in the rim to the spacer which holds the axle inside, so that bearing seal is its only protection from water, sand etc...

It is a bearing failure, it happens. I don't blame kawasaki or MGValerio, although perhaps some more attentive maintenance would have prevented this. ie removing and packing the bearings earlier, as he showed he now did to the front wheel.

I have 70,200 miles on my bike, still all original bearings and not worried about them one little bit.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: VirginiaJim on December 20, 2012, 12:17:32 pm
+1 and I haven't repacked mine either.  Course I don't wash it so maybe that's why the bearings have lasted so long.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: yellowrench on December 20, 2012, 08:18:56 pm
Not the way to properly pack a bearing, even if only adding grease.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: B.D.F. on December 21, 2012, 03:44:25 pm
I assume by all the exclamation points that you disagree with my opinion on this.... :-)   I understand completely, and you may be right of course.

When the axle (front or rear) on a motorcycle is tightened, there are dozens or hundreds of tons of force applied to the axle, effectively stretching it and binding all the inner tubes together to make a cohesive unit. The inner parts are the bearing inside races, the tubes spacing the bearings apart, the brake support bracket, the hub and the swingarm mounting points. Once that assembly is under tension / compression, it is extremely rigid and strong, and that one of two standard methods used to make a bearing mounted assembly (the other being to do a similar thing with the outer races and associated mounting parts). Under that kind of stress, when a bearing fails the device that is rotating on the bearing(s) must either seize and stop immediately or cause something else to break free and rotate; as it is not likely that the rear wheel assembly of a motorcycle (at least a large motorcycle, perhaps a scooter could do it) can stop virtually instantly, something else must become a pivot point. The weak link in the assembly is usually the press fit between the outer race of the seized bearing and whatever it is mounted to (the wheel in our case). The force holding that race in place is much, much less than the force binding the axle together. The next failure point after that, assuming the outer bearing race does not break away and spin, is the axle itself which would most likely simply break.

What appears to have happened on your bike is that the right side axle bearing failed (most likely due to contamination and corrosion due to the seal failing), seized and the axle rotated inside the right hand swingarm. As someone else said, perhaps there was a burr or some type of obstruction on the axle when it was assembled and that caused the axle nut to tighten without actually bringing much, if any, tension to the axle itself. Whatever the underlying reason, I believe that failure is not possible given the materials used and the force produced on a tightened axle.

Funny coincidence but the seal on the right hand side of my C-14's rear axle has failed and needs to be replaced. I have the new one but have not yet yanked the rear wheel off the bike to replace it. I will take a photo or two of mine while it is apart so what everyone can see what a seal failure looks like because they really do not look obviously bad.

Of course that is only my opinion and I do not think there is really any way to know what happened in your particular case. And again, no offense meant but I can understand why you would be upset with my previous post. At any rate, glad to see that you did not go down when the mishap did occur and that the bike could be repaired within reasonable cost.

And by the way- nice job cutting the axle out of that bike with the saw / drill / chiseling. It takes a fair amount of skill to wield rough tools like those used in such tight quarters without nicking (or outright crushing) something other than what you were trying to remove.

Brian



Conoscete voi  come è fatto l'insieme ruota per girare ??? credo proprio di no , asse ,copri asse,cuscinetti,dado!!!, Smontate da voi il  C 14 !!!,vi mostrerò con video clip l'insieme
Vi siete chiesti !...un solo C14 in  5 anni di vita in quelle condizioni 
Dado non stretto bene !!! ho  percorso 14.000 km da l'ultimo cambio treno gomme.

Con dado non stretto non avrei avuto tutto quel disastro,ripeto la causa sta per come è
l'insieme ruota,pernio,copri pernio,cuscinetti.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: MGvaleri on December 22, 2012, 02:10:54 am
Brian  ;) guarda con attenzione questa foto,spero tu riesca a vederci ciò che io per iscritto non potrei far capire,il tetra lever ha il suo tallone di ACHILLE quando il cuscinetto DX come nel mio caso fallisse.
Con dado ben stretto e con il fallimento del cuscinetto abbiamo un leggero spostamento del pernio che mette in crisi il distanziale spingendolo sul cuscinetto non più a 360°,è così che avviene la frenatura al momento della rottura del cuscinetto ,il distanziale che è in  lega  dall'  alluminio  è facile per attrito a degradarsi  e diventare un collante,così dopo la rottura del cuscinetto   avverrà   il rotolamento del pernio,che avrà fine quando si sarà ristabilito un gioco fra pernio cuscinetto e sede d'appoggio .

Quindi consiglierei a Kawasaki di non fornire il distanziale in alluminio,per ruota anteriore non problema per la fattura di tale organi.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/10ntjxu.jpg)


MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: B.D.F. on December 22, 2012, 06:46:29 pm
I gave it a shot but Google translator seems to be worth exactly what I paid for it in translating Italian (nothing). I just cannot follow the meaning of your post. ??? 

Best of luck with the bike after you get it back together.

Brian

Brian  ;) guarda con attenzione questa foto,spero tu riesca a vederci ciò che io per iscritto non potrei far capire,il tetra lever ha il suo tallone di ACHILLE quando il cuscinetto DX come nel mio caso fallisse.
Con dado ben stretto e con il fallimento del cuscinetto abbiamo un leggero spostamento del pernio che mette in crisi il distanziale spingendolo sul cuscinetto non più a 360°,è così che avviene la frenatura al momento della rottura del cuscinetto ,il distanziale che è in  lega  dall'  alluminio  è facile per attrito a degradarsi  e diventare un collante,così dopo la rottura del cuscinetto   avverrà   il rotolamento del pernio,che avrà fine quando si sarà ristabilito un gioco fra pernio cuscinetto e sede d'appoggio .

Quindi consiglierei a Kawasaki di non fornire il distanziale in alluminio,per ruota anteriore non problema per la fattura di tale organi.

<snipped image in Italian>


MGvalerio. 8)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: McJunkie on December 22, 2012, 11:19:45 pm
I gave it a shot but Google translator seems to be worth exactly what I paid for it in translating Italian (nothing). I just cannot follow the meaning of your post. ??? 

Best of luck with the bike after you get it back together.

Brian

This should clear it up..  ;)

Brian looks carefully) this picture, I hope you can see what I write I couldn't understand, tetra lever has its Achilles ' heel when the RIGHT bearing as in my case fails. With nut tight and with the failure of the bearing have a slight displacement of the stem that connects the crisis pushing bearing spacer is no longer at 360°, so that braking takes place at the time of the rupture of the bearing, the spacer that is aluminium alloy friction is easy to deteriorate and become a glue, so after the break will be rolling bearing of stemthat will end when you restored a game between stem and seat cushion.  So I would recommend not to provide Kawasaki the aluminium spacer for front wheel does not issue an invoice for such organs.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: ugocon on December 23, 2012, 02:24:22 am
McJunkie: you're great!  :D
I understood in English what I honestly couldn't understand in Italian, also because I don't know much about the mechanics of the rear wheel ;)

The only thing I think it's not correct in your translation is the very last part:
"Quindi consiglierei a Kawasaki di non fornire il distanziale in alluminio,per ruota anteriore non problema per la fattura di tale organi."

It goes like this:
"Thus I would recommend Kawasaki not to provide/install the aluminum spacer. The problem does not exist for the front wheel due to the (different) way the front mechanism it's manufactured"


Title: Rear Wheel bearing failure c-14
Post by: Spikey01 on April 07, 2013, 09:14:22 am
So I'm riding up PCH on a mellow day trip to Santa Barbara from Van Nuys to have lunch on my 2009 C-14 with 19.5K on it. Bought it used last June. Love the bike. Just before Summerland I start hearing "CLUNK CLUNK CLACK CLUNKITY." Coming from somewhere, and I think I feel a slight vibration. So many tar strips, rough section, don't know if it's me or the road. I pull off the next off ramp. Yes, it's me. Very slight vibration and an oh-so-faint wobble. Drive up and down the side road. Stop, get off check all over. Looking for something rubbing or hanging off, because that's what it felt/sounded like. Nothing. No smell. Limp it into town, CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK. Call a tow truck. Find a local dealer. Have lunch. Mechanic at the dealer thinks it is coming from the rear end. Says it's serious. Take the train home.
A few days later, phone call. The rear wheel bearing has failed. Fortunately, covered under warranty. Picked it up yesterday. Several balls in the bearing are completely missing. Rubber seal messed up.
One possible scenario: I had a flat rear tire about 600 miles ago. 4" nail, destroyed the tire. As it was loosing air (slowly) I was trying to limp home. Drove about 3 of the 4 miles, tire finally blew completely, had to push it off the street and get a tow. Took it to a dealer (not Kawasaki, but a very good shop I have been to many times in the past) who had the tire, got it replaced. So possibly I damaged the bearing by driving that short distance (very slowly, about 30 mph). The last few hundred yards were on a completely flat tire. It was a very busy street with no shoulder and a big curb on the right so I had to get to an opening so I could pull off to the service road. Scary stuff.
The other possibility is that the mechanic over or under torqued the axle bolt. Possibly a newbie mechanic, but this shop is very good, always has done top notch work on my Gold Wing and C-10 in the past. (Now gone to new owners.) And the last possibility is just a defective part (highly doubtful). Here's a pic.
Title: Re: Rear Wheel bearing failure c-14
Post by: Conrad on April 07, 2013, 09:22:14 am
See this thread for what may be the same issue.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11808.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11808.0)

Please note that I merged the other wheel bearing thread into this one.  The link above is for this thread.  (the management)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: stevewfl on April 07, 2013, 09:30:59 am
top!  for more pages....   ;)
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Spikey01 on April 07, 2013, 01:03:55 pm
This is all over my head. Plus, most of it is partly in Italian and/or the videos have been struck from YouTube.
I'm just wondering if I might have caused this by riding on the deflating rear tire, even for just a few miles. I should have pulled off the street immediately, have seen the nail, and called a tow truck. I did hear a "POP" and thought I had run over a nail and started seeing the rear tire pressure go down. Didn't realize how big the nail actually was.
It's the famous "I think I can Make It" syndrome - nail in tire, running out of gas, that snow/mud/water isn't that deep, etc.
Title: Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
Post by: Daytona_Mike on April 07, 2013, 01:24:40 pm
I cannot see how a flat tire would effect the bearings. It is the side loading or side pounding that can damage  these types of bearings.
The bearing can take a pounding up and down due to a flat tire or a rough road but hitting the axle bolt to get it back in could do the trick.

I have never used ALL BALLS and I am about to install new ones on the front and rear.
Any issue with those?