Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: katata1100 on April 16, 2019, 11:53:42 am

Title: Fuel Filter question
Post by: katata1100 on April 16, 2019, 11:53:42 am
My '11 C14 has 36k miles and runs great, never a hiccup. I'll be going around the country this summer, put on around 5,000 miles total. Should I replace my fuel filter now?
And if I do...once the filter is out, it looks like thirsty work to tear apart the fuel pump and replace the filter. Those $70 High Flow fuel pumps look tempting. Are they reliable? Anyone installed one of them?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: kzz1king on April 16, 2019, 12:02:10 pm
I dont know about the aftermarket pump but I took the screen out of mine and cleaned it. Easy job if I remember right.
Wayne
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: B.D.F. on April 16, 2019, 02:02:01 pm
If you do not have any symptoms of fuel starvation you can use fuel injector cleaner and that will cut through the majority of the debris built up on the filter. My only caution would be to use the stuff just before you are due for an oil change, and use as much of the fuel that has been treated as possible before changing the oil because that stuff turns the motor oil into what looks like black water. Which is a good thing meaning that it IS working and breaking down deposits but it makes the oil a lousy lubricant.

Brian

My '11 C14 has 36k miles and runs great, never a hiccup. I'll be going around the country this summer, put on around 5,000 miles total. Should I replace my fuel filter now?
And if I do...once the filter is out, it looks like thirsty work to tear apart the fuel pump and replace the filter. Those $70 High Flow fuel pumps look tempting. Are they reliable? Anyone installed one of them?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 16, 2019, 02:59:49 pm
My '11 C14 has 36k miles and runs great, never a hiccup. I'll be going around the country this summer, put on around 5,000 miles total. Should I replace my fuel filter now?
And if I do...once the filter is out, it looks like thirsty work to tear apart the fuel pump and replace the filter. Those $70 High Flow fuel pumps look tempting. Are they reliable? Anyone installed one of them?

I have a link to them in the COG site, tech area.
So far, I think 3 people have bought and used them, and so far no complaints.

But... the actual process to remove and install that pump, and filter, is no different than doing the filter itself... i.e., might as well just buy the filter, and install that, save the $$ on the pump, even tho it is a very low price, as there is no "less" work in doing the pump... it all comes apart the same to get the pump out, filter or no filter..

I'm doing mine this week, as a p/m thing... My local Kaw dealer has the OEM filters in stock (9 of them), so it's worth it to me not to play the waiting game ordering online... price on the OEM p/n 49019-0013 from my local shop is $13.. but that is the OEM filter, the HighFlow ones are an aftermarket manufacturer, and don't "look" quite as effective, I'm sure they do work, but they are $14 for 3 of them... I just hate removing the tank that often.

scroll to the bottom for those filters....

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html (https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html)
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: maxtog on April 16, 2019, 03:35:20 pm
and use as much of the fuel that has been treated as possible before changing the oil because that stuff turns the motor oil into what looks like black water.

I haven't seen that happen with Techron, at least not on my vehicles.  I do agree to use it all up as quickly as possible, though.  I tend to try use it before a long trip so it gets burned through without sitting in the tank for weeks.
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: katata1100 on April 16, 2019, 05:15:15 pm
Do I need to replace the bolts or can I just apply some loctite and reuse them?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 16, 2019, 05:30:06 pm
Do I need to replace the bolts or can I just apply some loctite and reuse them?

neither...
 simply inspect the seal to insure it's ok, and re-install the assembly with the bolts you took out.. you don't need to replace them, or re-apply any locking agents... trust me...
follow the torque for those bolts,(do not get crazy and over torque them),
Torque - Fuel Pump Bolts: 9.8 N·m (1.0 kgf·m, 89 in·lb)
in a "star pattern", not circular;  and all will be fine. (if I had any doubt, I would never tell you to do that... just saying, I ALWAYS play the safe card.)
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 17, 2019, 06:11:37 am
I bought a slightly used fuel pump ages ago and took mine apart and replaced the filter....just because.  It wasn't that bad but it was crudded up.  I still have the spare pump sitting on the bench.  Will probably put it up for sale.  Now that I think about it some more I believe I did experience some fuel (I thought) hiccups.  Putting the new used pump on fixed those problems.


http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17493.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17493.0)



Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: lather on April 17, 2019, 07:12:47 am
I experienced the fuel starvation symptom while on  a road trip, 500 miles from home. The engine would sputter on moderate acceleration. I stopped at the first service station I came to and put in a bottle of whatever fuel system cleaner they had and filled the tank with fuel. The issue went away and never returned. I did purchase and install the fuel filter when I got home. I kep a spare filter on hand but don't plan to use it until I have symtoms.
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: katata1100 on April 17, 2019, 11:34:54 am
So in a nutshell, if I don’t have time to change out the filter until fall ( and the bike now runs flawlessly), I can dump in a bottle of Techron in it this weekend and not worry about the bike unexpectedly acting fuel starved in the middle of B.F. Egypt during my month long trip , right ?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: B.D.F. on April 17, 2019, 11:38:41 am
Right. And you never have to change / clean the fuel filter if you use F.I. cleaner once every, say, 5 to 10K miles. The F.I. cleaner really does work and will clean the entire fuel system starting with the tank, pump and pump filter. But it will also actually clean the injectors as well as the combustion chamber and even the spark plus. If you wait until the longer end of that range, 10K miles, you will also notice that after cleaning the bike will run better, idle better and have better throttle response. Scout's honor, the stuff really does work.

Brian

So in a nutshell, if I don’t have time to change out the filter until fall ( and the bike now runs flawlessly), I can dump in a bottle of Techron in it this weekend and not worry about the bike unexpectedly acting fuel starved in the middle of B.F. Egypt during my month long trip , right ?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: maxtog on April 17, 2019, 02:59:56 pm
Right. And you never have to change / clean the fuel filter if you use F.I. cleaner once every, say, 5 to 10K miles. The F.I. cleaner really does work and will clean the entire fuel system starting with the tank, pump and pump filter. But it will also actually clean the injectors as well as the combustion chamber and even the spark plus. If you wait until the longer end of that range, 10K miles, you will also notice that after cleaning the bike will run better, idle better and have better throttle response. Scout's honor, the stuff really does work.

Agreed.  I especially like Techron.  Using it every 5-10K miles or something very relatively cheap, certainly easy, and seems perfectly safe (as long as the concentration is right and it is not OVER used).  Just remember that the bottle is designed for something like 12 - 18 gal, not the 6 gal tank on the Concours, so use only half a bottle.  I am not sure using the whole bottle would be a good idea, ever (but I am curious what others think on that).

I have never had fuel starvation, but it will develop a rough idle and sometimes hesitation on initial throttle and that is my signal that it needs cleaning.  All fuels have cleaners in them, but nowhere near the level of using a cleaner-in-a-bottle.  After the treatment, everything is normal again for many months/tanks.

If you have never used fuel cleaner on a regular basis, it might take using it a few times before any issues are resolved.

There ARE some contaminates that will remain in the filter- usually particulate matter that no fuel additive or fuel cleaner will dissolve.  But it should take many, many years for that type of stuff to matter.  All modern fuel stations use filters on their pumps.  So unless you are getting some really bad and unfiltered gas from some shady places, I would imagine it shouldn't become a major issue.
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: lather on April 17, 2019, 04:40:55 pm
I buy two bottles of Techrom once a year. One goes in my Van that has a 30 gallon tank. The other bottle is spit between my four bikes and the  mower. The KLX and the mower also get a dose of fuel stabilizer/ethanol antidote.
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 17, 2019, 04:51:13 pm
as my fellow colleagues have noted,, Techron is the bomb... It's the only thing I will pour into my tank as a "cleaner/preventer" for gummy gas...

I do use IsoHeet, regularly, when I think I have water issues... BUT, I never "mix" the 2 in the same tank, I make sure to get rid of water, with the IsoHeet, run the tank empty, and fill the tank with good fuel again, (I can get "pure"gasoline here), and then when the tank gets down below half, just on straight gas, do a refill, and dump a bottle of Techron in.. yes, I do a full bottle (but then I make sure to run that full tank out... just don't dump it in, and let it sit.. that does nothing good...hell, do we need an excuse for riding 230 miles, in a day?.. that's silly... go ride.."honey, I gotta go clean my fuel system, I'll be back in 6 hours (meaning really 3-1/2 hours...heheheheh)..."... "ok dear, have fun"...) Makes for stinky riding, as it does clean, and ends up as smelly exhaust... but it's goooood. Heaven help anyone that follows you on a ride..   ::)

I miss Chevron gasoline up here in Ohio, always loved using it down in Va., and would go out of my way to get it....
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 17, 2019, 04:54:17 pm
I buy two bottles of Techrom once a year. One goes in my Van that has a 30 gallon tank. The other bottle is spit between my four bikes and the  mower. The KLX and the mower also get a dose of fuel stabilizer/ethanol antidote.

here in Ohio, I buy IsoHeet, and Techron, by the "box", at WallyWorld... much cheaper than buying a bottle here and there, and then, I always have it on hand...
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: MtnRider on April 17, 2019, 07:13:31 pm
I'm a Sea Foam fan. I've used Techron but read something years back that said Sea Foam was "better". I tried it and thought SF might be a little better. Realistically, it's probably six of one, half dozen of the other. When I had the Nomad it would sit for extended periods. It would then run a bit rough. Run the specified amount of SF for 6 gallons of gas and by half way thru the tank it was running smooth as butter. Either Sf or Techron are great products and definitely worth using, especially if your bike has had to sit idle thru the winter.

Have fun.    :stirpot:  :chugbeer:  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: maxtog on April 17, 2019, 08:11:00 pm
here in Ohio, I buy IsoHeet, and Techron, by the "box", at WallyWorld... much cheaper than buying a bottle here and there, and then, I always have it on hand...

Techron is available at Costco by case, which is nice (I think it is 6 bottles).  I don't think it goes bad over time or anything (when factory sealed), so quantity buying is good.  I always shake it before pouring.

It is rather annoying that there are no "windows" on the bottle, so trying to guess how much is half a bottle is challenging.  But I don't think it needs to be exact.
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: maxtog on April 17, 2019, 08:14:49 pm
When I had the Nomad it would sit for extended periods. It would then run a bit rough. Run the specified amount of SF for 6 gallons of gas and by half way thru the tank it was running smooth as butter. Either Sf or Techron are great products and definitely worth using, especially if your bike has had to sit idle thru the winter

I ride all winter.  But if it did sit for months, unused, like my lawn mower does in the winter, and the generator most of the time, I would use some STABIL in it (which I do in the lawn mower).  Actually, I just premix STABIL in all the gas I store in the 5 gal red "cans" (plastic), so that is what is always used in the lawn mower and generator.  That way it helps with the stored gas in the equipment and also the red "cans".
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: katata1100 on April 17, 2019, 09:40:44 pm
I feel better now after hearing all this . I do occasionally  use a shot of berrymans and during the winter I always use stabil 360. I don’t necessarily abandon riding , I ride when I can. But here in northern Nevada you never know when you’ll get slammed by a series of snow storms and not be able to ride for a few months ( as happen this year- we even got some snow last week!!!)
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: B.D.F. on April 18, 2019, 05:06:07 am
Right- it does not have to be exact. The instructions state that exactly when they state to pour one bottle into a tank of gasoline..... gas tank sizes vary wildly between autos.  I tend to buy Valvoline but only because it is readily available here. And I make sure to use 'enough' and by that I mean about 1/2 bottle, added to an almost empty fuel tank right at the fuel station and then fill the tank. That way I know it is fully mixed.

The easiest way I know to verify that the stuff (any brand, just fuel injector cleaner) works is to use it for a while, say three times at 5K miles, then pull the spark plugs (on an auto or anything other than a C-14 'cause that is a cast- iron bi!ch just to look at the plugs) and it will be clear immediately that they have either no or virtually no carbon deposits on them.

Brian

Techron is available at Costco by case, which is nice (I think it is 6 bottles).  I don't think it goes bad over time or anything (when factory sealed), so quantity buying is good.  I always shake it before pouring.

It is rather annoying that there are no "windows" on the bottle, so trying to guess how much is half a bottle is challenging.  But I don't think it needs to be exact.
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: Eupher on April 18, 2019, 06:02:06 am
Right. And you never have to change / clean the fuel filter if you use F.I. cleaner once every, say, 5 to 10K miles. The F.I. cleaner really does work and will clean the entire fuel system starting with the tank, pump and pump filter. But it will also actually clean the injectors as well as the combustion chamber and even the spark plus. If you wait until the longer end of that range, 10K miles, you will also notice that after cleaning the bike will run better, idle better and have better throttle response. Scout's honor, the stuff really does work.

Brian

Any particular type of FI cleaner? Quantity/volume to use?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: B.D.F. on April 18, 2019, 06:09:36 am
I do not have a favorite brand, I just pick up whatever is on sale and have used STP, Valvoline, Techchron (sp?), etc. Just make sure it is F.I. cleaner, not any kind of 'treatment', carb. cleaner or anything else. There is often a 2 or 3 package on sale for the price of one bottle and that is the one I usually pick. I stay away from 'house' brands though, only using known manufacturers types. The bottom line is that all of them contain some fairly aggressive (but not so aggressive as to eat fuel system parts, such as acetone) solvents and all work because chemistry works. Sort of like washing dishes- the process needs some detergent but the specific brand is not really important, only that there be some present.

I use about 1/2 bottle to a full tank of fuel, which is ~6 gallons. Then run the tank as low as you dare so as to not carry some F.I. cleaner into the next tank(s) of fuel; in other words, you want to use it and get rid of it. Then change the crankcase oil to get rid of both whatever F.I. cleaner blew by the rings (and it will) along with whatever carbon it washed out of the fuel system, combustion chamber and valves, especially the intake.

Along the way, almost by accident, this stuff will also clean the fuel filter, the fuel pump regulator and everything else on the downwide side of the gas filler port (or in the infamous words of Haroldo, the 'gashole').

Brian

Any particular type of FI cleaner? Quantity/volume to use?
Title: Re: Fuel Filter question
Post by: MtnRider on April 18, 2019, 09:13:39 am
This is a good demonstration of what a FI cleaner can do. Seafoam in this case but Techron and the other name brand ones would probably have done the same. He did the full treatment with spraying it into the intake and added to the oil due to the state of his engine. That's not needed on a decently running C14, just add some to the gas. But it is a heck of a demonstration of what they can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agAWXnT4-EQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agAWXnT4-EQ)     :popcorn: