Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: PC on April 24, 2019, 09:17:10 pm

Title: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: PC on April 24, 2019, 09:17:10 pm
Hi all ... my first time here as I am a first time Concours owner having just purchased a 2016 Moondust Grey Concours with about 8,000 kilometers on it. Pretty excited about this as I have been wanting one of these for quite a while.

Last week was my first real experience with the bike which resulted in about six hours of riding. While I love the power and smoothness of the Connie, comfort by the end of the day was a challenge. I hurt just about everywhere ... particularily my hands, wrists, back and rear end.  I confess it has been about two years since I rode that long in a day, but I have completed many 1,000 kilometer days in the past on my 1000 VStrom and my ZX1100 before that without much trouble. I also have to think getting older is working against me.

On the ride the things that struck me as needing attention where the noise, the weight on my hands, and the seat. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and elsewhere, and frankly the number of choices to make adjustments is a bit overwhelming.

I am thinking I need to make a couple changes, see if they work, and adjust if required.

For the seat I am considering a AirHawk. Problem is the site does not specify whick model best fits a Connie.
Anyone else there done this that can offer advice?

For the windshield ... frankly the noise is the biggest issue as it is exteremely loud in any position.
And I expect if I my head and shoulders were more exposed to the wind, it would take a lot of the weight of my hands.
The CopperDawg looks very interesting, but the price is a bit much. But if it really works, maybe it's worth it. And I may not have to purchase the handbar risers.
And the Mastad setup also looks interesting ... it leaves me thinking a simple fix by changing the angle of the windshield could allevaite a lot of the noise, and possibly work well with a spoiler type of attachement at the top of the windshied. If this cut the noise, I could go for the handle bar risers and simply sit up straighter ... again taking pressure off my hands.

I am very interested in solutions/experiences some of you have had with the above ... particularily from those of you that are about the same size and age as I am (6'3", 240 and 64 years old).

Thanks in advance ...


Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 24, 2019, 10:48:25 pm
Hi all ... my first time here as I am a first time Concours owner having just purchased a 2016 Moondust Grey Concours with about 8,000 kilometers on it. Pretty excited about this as I have been wanting one of these for quite a while.

Welcome

Quote
Last week was my first real experience with the bike which resulted in about six hours of riding. While I love the power and smoothness of the Connie, comfort by the end of the day was a challenge. I hurt just about everywhere ... particularily my hands, wrists, back and rear end.

The first thing to consider is that every bike is different, and it does and will take time to develop your muscles and body to handle the new positioning.  Many years ago I was skeptical about such a statement, but no longer.   So I do caution about making too many changes before taking that into consideration.  (For example, I added expensive highway pegs and later found I never need them because I adapted and no longer had pain/issues there).

Quote
older is working against me.

I hear you, and can relate.  As we get older, it is harder to build new muscle, adapt to new positions, and maintain flexibility (plus things generally just hurt all the time, anyway).

Quote
On the ride the things that struck me as needing attention where the noise, the weight on my hands, and the seat. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and elsewhere, and frankly the number of choices to make adjustments is a bit overwhelming.

Indeed.  But it is a great problem to have- lots of choices :)

Quote
For the windshield ... frankly the noise is the biggest issue as it is exteremely loud in any position.

The stock one?  Hmm, I have never noticed that.  But it depends on a great many factors.  I will mention, you should probably use hearing protection regardless, since cumulative noise WILL cause hearing damage, even if it doesn't seem that loud.

Quote
And I expect if I my head and shoulders were more exposed to the wind, it would take a lot of the weight of my hands.

Too much weight on hands is a clear sign of not be "developed" for the bike- your back and core muscles should be taking more load.  For some, a handlebar riser will help- especially with shorter arms (like I have).  If your height is "proportional", then you don't have short arms, based on your standing height (that you posted).  So that points right back to conditioning.   Keep in mind that standing height is not at all the same as sitting height (for example, I stand 5'7" but I sit as tall as most 5'11" people because I have short legs).
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 25, 2019, 02:17:13 pm
pretty much Max hit the nail right on the head...
I'm about the same size, and age, maybe 2" shorter in height, and when I first got my C14 in '07, the first couple "days" I had to make my "body" learn a bit of the ergonomics... coupled with the "new bike syndrome" (excessively gripping the bike/handlebars/seat, etc.) you have to "relax" every muscle (especially the hand muscles...) that was taught from a different bike, and also, simply relax more... being "tense" is very common, and people don't realize just how much it causes "discomfort" and fatigue...
I always recommend a new owner refrains from doing "all the mods" until they put on a couple thousand miles, as you will then get a real sense whether they are actually needed... In my case, and I don't think my arms are long, I never did any ergonomic changes to the bike since I purchased it.. and it became very comfortable after about a week of continually riding it. I'm very glad in fact, that I didn't change anything... because I think that after time, I would have removed the farkles and returned it to the "as delivered state" eventually.

best of luck on your new ride,
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 25, 2019, 03:55:04 pm
pretty much Max hit the nail right on the head... [...]it became very comfortable after about a week of continually riding it.

In my case, it took much longer- months of riding.  But I was probably in worse shape.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: fartymarty on April 25, 2019, 05:43:04 pm
 
I stand 5'7"

New shoes max'?  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: PC on April 25, 2019, 07:35:23 pm
Thanks everyone.

Sounds like patience is the key.
I don't want to dive into a bunch of mods and spending a bunch of money without giving it serious consideration.

I am thinking I may start off with a Puig clip-on for the top of the windshield as the noise is not something I want to get used to. My VStrom had a simlar setup and it worked very well.

I will hold off on the AirHawk for a bit and give the seat, or my seat, a chance to adjust.

Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: katata1100 on April 25, 2019, 07:58:31 pm
Here’s my journey to make the c14 comfy:
I got a mount for my iPhone and a blutooth helmet to listen to Pandora while I cruised . There was too much noise from the wind so I got a larger windshield - that fixed it.
My hands got tired - I got risers so it took pressure off my hands. Still hurt though. I put on grip buddies. That helped a lot . I finally installed mccruise- all’s well.
Stock seat was awful . Sergeant was good but it got hard, I’d get sore after four hours. Got a Kawasaki touring seat, feels good but still waiting for my first long ride with it.
I think as it stands now , it’s pretty comfy. I’m 55 years old, but simply sitting in the same position
For hours, whether it be on a c14, goldwing or coach class airline  seat ( like that brutal 14 hour flight back from Australia I took last January) can be brutal. Take a few stops to rehydrate and stretch, book motel rooms easy walking distance from a brew pub, these are additional steps to mitigate long ride discomfort.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: FTB530 on April 25, 2019, 08:12:13 pm
What kind of helmet do you wear? Can make a difference in the amount of wind noise you hear , earplugs or a Sena with Westone AC20s and music work for me!
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: PC on April 25, 2019, 09:02:41 pm
It's not my helmet ... and yes, I wear earplugs.
Frankly, I have ridden many motorcycles over the years and have never had such a problem with wind noise.
It was interesting that when travelling at about 120 km/h, I would duck down low behind the screen and it was extremely quiet.
When sitting normally, it didn't matter how high the screen was or if the front vent was open or closed.

The more I hear and read, it seems clear I need to add the Puig clip-on, or maybe go to the Puig touring windscreen.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: katata1100 on April 25, 2019, 09:11:17 pm
I wear a cheap modular blutooth helmet sold under the "Bilt" name by cycle gear, I think I paid $150.  I have worn full face helmets, rode with foam ear buds in the past, I think the best solution is to simply get a larger windshield which will cut down the wind noise.
Here's a simply test if you have a blutooth helmet- before you ride, set the volume at a comfortable level. Then. go for a ride at highway speeds. You should still be able to hear the music. It might be a little softer sounding, but if you have to turn the volume up to hear it above wind noise, then you really should try a larger shield.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 25, 2019, 09:45:27 pm
New shoes max'?  :rotflmao:

Oh, that is barefoot.  But I do gain about 1.75" in my riding boots.

I hope I am not shrinking.  I admit, has probably been a decade since I was last measured.  That is typically spine, though, not legs, as we get older.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 25, 2019, 09:52:08 pm
It's not my helmet ... and yes, I wear earplugs.
Frankly, I have ridden many motorcycles over the years and have never had such a problem with wind noise.

Were they all "sports" bikes?  If so, you will be sitting taller on the Concours, which makes a big difference.  The other possible difference is the angle of attack of the helmet.  If it is not a sports-touring/touring helmet, it can make a LOT of noise when the chin is higher than what it was typically designed for.   Sports-oriented helmets have the view port higher and are aerodynamically designed for being bent over more.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: connie14boy on April 25, 2019, 11:25:59 pm
Hi all ... my first time here as I am a first time Concours owner having just purchased a 2016 Moondust Grey Concours with about 8,000 kilometers on it. Pretty excited about this as I have been wanting one of these for quite a while.

Last week was my first real experience with the bike which resulted in about six hours of riding. While I love the power and smoothness of the Connie, comfort by the end of the day was a challenge. I hurt just about everywhere ... particularily my hands, wrists, back and rear end.  I confess it has been about two years since I rode that long in a day, but I have completed many 1,000 kilometer days in the past on my 1000 VStrom and my ZX1100 before that without much trouble. I also have to think getting older is working against me.

On the ride the things that struck me as needing attention where the noise, the weight on my hands, and the seat. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and elsewhere, and frankly the number of choices to make adjustments is a bit overwhelming.

I am thinking I need to make a couple changes, see if they work, and adjust if required.

For the seat I am considering a AirHawk. Problem is the site does not specify whick model best fits a Connie.
Anyone else there done this that can offer advice?

For the windshield ... frankly the noise is the biggest issue as it is exteremely loud in any position.
And I expect if I my head and shoulders were more exposed to the wind, it would take a lot of the weight of my hands.
The CopperDawg looks very interesting, but the price is a bit much. But if it really works, maybe it's worth it. And I may not have to purchase the handbar risers.
And the Mastad setup also looks interesting ... it leaves me thinking a simple fix by changing the angle of the windshield could allevaite a lot of the noise, and possibly work well with a spoiler type of attachement at the top of the windshied. If this cut the noise, I could go for the handle bar risers and simply sit up straighter ... again taking pressure off my hands.

I am very interested in solutions/experiences some of you have had with the above ... particularily from those of you that are about the same size and age as I am (6'3", 240 and 64 years old).

Thanks in advance ...

For your eye comfort and mine, first throw out the black bazooka donkey dong and get a proper lightweight slip-on. Your bike and other bikers will thank you also.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: O.C. on April 26, 2019, 01:12:53 am
Thanks everyone.

Sounds like patience is the key.
I don't want to dive into a bunch of mods and spending a bunch of money without giving it serious consideration.

I am thinking I may start off with a Puig clip-on for the top of the windshield as the noise is not something I want to get used to. My VStrom had a simlar setup and it worked very well.

I will hold off on the AirHawk for a bit and give the seat, or my seat, a chance to adjust.


Top Sellerie seat is day long comfortable ... seen here in front of OEM seat

(http://i66.tinypic.com/9a63rq.jpg) 

And fitted

(http://i64.tinypic.com/10yly68.jpg) 

However you will need to use your own seat base or provide a donor, which can be found


Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: katata1100 on April 26, 2019, 07:42:04 am
I looked up the top sellarie a few months ago and bottom line was it was from France and expensive, I think around $600 shipped , sold on eBay. So I went with kawa touring which was under $500 from partzilla.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: B.D.F. on April 26, 2019, 09:32:58 am
It took me about a year to get my C-14 comfy for me and my wife. What worked for me was:

A CalSci windshield with an MRA visor on top. The windshield is wider and taller (+6) than stock and overall, it is around 10" taller than stock including the visor. I sit fairly tall in the saddle and that is what it took to get the airstream over most of my helmet.

A Corbin saddle w/ Airhawk cushion on it (two actually, one for each of us). The Corbin provides a flat platform which is ideal for an Airhawk. This was after trying a bunch of saddles, including a custom Russell as well as various cushions.

Raising the bars 2". No change in angle.

Using Buell pegs. These lower the peg and foot position by about 1 1/4" or so with no loss of cornering clearance. Cheap too although you have to open the mounting hole slightly (Easy Boys!).

Baker hand wings. Greatly reduce the airstream flowing not only over the hands but also into the torso of the rider. Also, they can be turned to greatly increase the air driven into the rider- fantastic when it is hot out.

Cruise control- necessary for longer rides in my case.

It also depends on how much comfort / how long you will be riding. I needed to go over 10 hours straight and with the setup I can go 50+ hours continuously (no breaks for longer than 30 minutes, most stops less than 6 minutes for fuel only). If you just want to ride for, say, 4 to 6 hours per day, maybe just bar riders and a saddle cushion would work for you. I am a huge fan of Airhawk cushions but they do not work well on the stock seat IME; it is too dished and sloped forward and I ended up being driven into the fuel tank.

Unlike autos, fitting motorcycles to individuals is a time consuming and expensive task. And there is really very little you can do in the way of predicting just what will work- most things are great for 10 minutes in the parking lot but draining three fuel tanks in a row without getting off the bike will show the flaws right away. The other thing is that each change will affect how the other devices work; for example, putting a Corbin on a C-14, which is a very low saddle, will have the effect of raising both the windshield as well as the handlebars.

Brian

Hi all ... my first time here as I am a first time Concours owner having just purchased a 2016 Moondust Grey Concours with about 8,000 kilometers on it. Pretty excited about this as I have been wanting one of these for quite a while.

Last week was my first real experience with the bike which resulted in about six hours of riding. While I love the power and smoothness of the Connie, comfort by the end of the day was a challenge. I hurt just about everywhere ... particularily my hands, wrists, back and rear end.  I confess it has been about two years since I rode that long in a day, but I have completed many 1,000 kilometer days in the past on my 1000 VStrom and my ZX1100 before that without much trouble. I also have to think getting older is working against me.

On the ride the things that struck me as needing attention where the noise, the weight on my hands, and the seat. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and elsewhere, and frankly the number of choices to make adjustments is a bit overwhelming.

I am thinking I need to make a couple changes, see if they work, and adjust if required.

For the seat I am considering a AirHawk. Problem is the site does not specify whick model best fits a Connie.
Anyone else there done this that can offer advice?

For the windshield ... frankly the noise is the biggest issue as it is exteremely loud in any position.
And I expect if I my head and shoulders were more exposed to the wind, it would take a lot of the weight of my hands.
The CopperDawg looks very interesting, but the price is a bit much. But if it really works, maybe it's worth it. And I may not have to purchase the handbar risers.
And the Mastad setup also looks interesting ... it leaves me thinking a simple fix by changing the angle of the windshield could allevaite a lot of the noise, and possibly work well with a spoiler type of attachement at the top of the windshied. If this cut the noise, I could go for the handle bar risers and simply sit up straighter ... again taking pressure off my hands.

I am very interested in solutions/experiences some of you have had with the above ... particularily from those of you that are about the same size and age as I am (6'3", 240 and 64 years old).

Thanks in advance ...
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: fartymarty on April 26, 2019, 09:54:05 am
....... throw out the black bazooka donkey dong and get a proper lightweight slip-on. Your bike and other bikers will thank you also.

Maybe some bikers will, most motorcyclists won't.
Never could understand why so many noisemakers want to be surrounded by other noisemakers. Is it a support group kinda thing?
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: gPink on April 26, 2019, 04:28:02 pm
It's so everybody can show off their individuality together.  8)
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 26, 2019, 05:54:46 pm
I realllllllly thank the divine powers of the universe, for delaying the internet for soo many years, and letting people buying, and riding motorcycles, to buy and decide, without asking everyone in the world, at the tap of the "send" button, what they think they should do to make their bike fell better..  or not even feel better, just what they wanna believe "may feel better"...

man,
do you think back in 1800's, cowboys had these type of conversations...in saloons..
really?

I can think of a 3 letter word, that I yell at harley riders,  ... coming to mind just before someone in a saloon was gonna pop ya in the jaw, or worse yet.. draw a .45 on ya..

lets just go watch some Clint Eastwood movies, and call it a day.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: MtnRider on April 26, 2019, 06:47:02 pm
man,
do you think back in 1800's, cowboys had these type of conversations...in saloons..
really?

For sure. Horses, which breed, who's stud has the best colts, how tall should one be, stud mare or gelding. "I have got to get me a new saddle! This one makes my butt hurt after an hour in it!"  "Damned horse eats a ton! He's gettin fat!"  :stirpot: :rotflmao:   

Just "horsin'" around with ya', MoB.    :chugbeer: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 26, 2019, 07:22:27 pm
I can think of a 3 letter word, that I yell at harley riders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F_Word_(South_Park)
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: connie14boy on April 26, 2019, 09:16:53 pm
Maybe some bikers will, most motorcyclists won't.
Never could understand why so many noisemakers want to be surrounded by other noisemakers. Is it a support group kinda thing?

I probably would have left well enough alone and stuck with the stock pipe if:
1). It was a foot shorter and not shaped like some freakin' weird appendage.
2).The V&H sounds much better than a Hog at five grand IMO, and also scares deer and small children out of the way. 'Nuff said, Fred.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: Michelle on April 26, 2019, 09:56:37 pm
Is it a support group kinda thing?

Echo chamber?  :stirpot:
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 28, 2019, 07:44:40 am

I can think of a 3 letter word, that I yell at harley riders,


Just because they ride Harley's, Rich?  Or for some other reason?


It's very rare someone leaves their bike totally stock.  I know with my C14 comfort, I went with a Russell Seat, taller wider screen, Heli-bars, heat modifications and I still had pain riding it.  With the Indian, the only things for comfort I added were extended reach bars and tear drop foot rests on the crash bars and I don't hurt anymore.


As far as sound goes, I always had issues with wind noise unless the screen was totally up and yes, I'm one of those that went with an Area P exhaust because of the sound and weight savings.  I have a factory modified exhaust on my Indian that is loud but not obnoxiously so.  And yes, all of us riding Indians even with the stock exhaust, are a bit on the loud side, but I've found that with the Indian and it's loud exhaust, I don't seem to need ear plugs like I did on the C14 and it's wind noise.  I've started wearing a 3/4 helmet that even with the screen down, I just don't have the noise affecting me like the C14 did.  And by the way, the electrically operated stock screen on my Roadmaster is perfect for me unlike the stocker on the 08 C14.  I can't tell you how many screens I went through on that bike.


I also think, before we start painting with the broad strokes, stereo types of riders of other brands,  you may want to start walking in their shoes to see what it's really about, like I did.  I find them just as friendly as the sport touring group of people if not friendlier.  The Indian groups and HOG groups across the country support many many charities and organizations.  We're not the 1%ers.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: katata1100 on April 28, 2019, 09:14:19 am
In one of the many threads from the past, I think there was dyno showing stock exhaust+ tune vs
slip on exhaust + tune.
The slip on added an extra 4hp.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 28, 2019, 10:11:33 am
In one of the many threads from the past, I think there was dyno showing stock exhaust+ tune vs
slip on exhaust + tune.  The slip on added an extra 4hp.

There have been various claims, and some actual data, probably averaging in the 2-3hp range.  BUT that is only at WOT and at a flow rate that matters, which is probably at least 6K RPM (if not much higher).  So muffler replacement is a big "meh". (I like that word, something a millennial taught me...).  The stock exhaust system (which includes the muffler) was [well] designed together as a unit.  The muffler is not limiting the flow, nor is the midpipe.  It is the whole system- including the headers.  This isn't the 70's/80's/90's anymore :)

To get any meaningful performance difference would require replacing the entire exhaust system (which some people do, but be prepared to spend a lot of money) and tuning the FI to match.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: katata1100 on April 29, 2019, 08:23:14 am
My first sport tour bike was my ‘91katana1100. After a long ride ( 8 hours) my hands hurt a lot . I replaced the hand grips with gel grips, would ride with finger less gel gloves , with regular gel infused gloves over them. After a ride, I’d still be doing double dose of Celebrex .
In fact, my body hurt so much that I got the Connie in hopes it’d be better or else I’d just stop long trips altogether .
As stated before, it was all perfect . But now, I can say it is as good as any bike can be.its worth mentioning that you should have good gear . I have some riding boots with foam inserts and they feel
much better than tennis shoes. My heavy, ugly as hell cordura riding outfit is uncomfortable when walking around but when I’m planted on the bike, feels pretty good.
My shock settings gave great handling but felt a little too firm . When I replaced the worn out Seargent seat with a new kawa touring seat , it felt perfect- the seat had more Cush to filter out the road before it reach my rear.
My latest comfort mod is two pairs of bamboo pajama bottoms. I’ll wear them under the cordura pants
and they do great at being a comfort layer when going through Texas this July.
I looked at other bikes this year and there is nothing that can replace it. With my Shad 50 trunk, not even a new gold wing can match its cargo capacity. The fjr has that electronic suspension but I’m not crazy about that tech, much happier with can of whumpass that my flashed bike has.
Don’t forget that any discomfort you have on trip might more likely due to staying in the same position than the bike itself. With that in mind, looking for the perfect bike might be futile.
I feel much better going on a long ride than sitting coach class middle seat for 14 hours.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: maxtog on April 29, 2019, 03:15:50 pm
Don’t forget that any discomfort you have on trip might more likely due to staying in the same position than the bike itself.

+1

I have a terrible issue with being confined to the same position.  On the bike, in a car, on a plane.... anywhere.  I don't take many long trips, but in any case, I try to stop every hour, get off, and move around and stretch a lot and it helps tremendously.
Title: Re: 2016 C14 ... Comfort, or lack thereof
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 30, 2019, 04:59:33 am
Two Alleve's helped me.