Author Topic: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14  (Read 13193 times)

Offline rcannon409

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Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« on: August 21, 2017, 05:22:32 am »
Guys, I don’t know if you've seen this new page on Ivans site:
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm

His tuning philosophy and approach is listed on this page on his site.
http://ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm

Lots of good info here. and the engine is smooth as silk.

His Concours 14 reflash is now available.  I know many of us who are using his Ninja 1000 flash have waited a long time for this.

Fueling and driveability is flawless and the engine is smooth as silk from idle up to its "new and improved" redline. Make no mistake, this bike now feels like a 1400.

Engine response is instant, silky smooth, light and revvy just as you would expect a first class tune to be.

My wife and I took the concours up to one of the local ski resorts.
It’s not much of a distance ride, but you gain elevation like crazy.
We start at my house which is 4500ft and finish at 10,500ft @ 30 miles
later.  I’ve had the bike up there before with original programming, and it was about halfway a
mess at the high altitude.  Especially the on/off throttle.  Her helmet was
constantly smacking mine.

With Ivan’s tuning, the bike was awesome up there. Of course, power dropped off, but the
character was still there and driveability remained flawless.

Another welcome change is how the bike is in traffic.

 
You cannot imagine how the traffic is on the highway leading to Idaho on 8-20-17  , and the
people who are going to watch the eclipse.  There’s only one road to get
to Idaho, and sadly, I had to be on it.

The fan kicks on sooner.  195 degrees on, 186, off.    On the 08, that is
huge.  Previously, I’ve stopped for fuel when I only had 2 gallons left,
just to cool the tank.   No need for that, now.   It gets warm, but I’ve
had it to the point where I was scared it would ignite when the bike was
stock."

I haven’t tested it for mileage yet because I’ve been having too much fun with it, but I will offer some mileage figures soon within the next week or so.

When discussing the Concours flash with Ivan, he informed me that it was developed with “on the road” as well as extensive time on his dyno. 

More than a year was invested in this bike reverse engineering the ecus for all the generations of C14’s, as well as the purchase of a brand new 2017 model for the tuning part of it, and also borrowing a 2008 model to transfer the work into and test before offering it for sale to us.
A sizeable investment of time and money to say the least.

I don’t work for Ivan, and I pay full price for any work that he does for me.
He has been tuning motorcycles for a living for more than 30 years, and has been in many of the magazines over the years for his abilities.

After riding my ninja 1000 that he re-flashed, as well as a friend’s fz09, this is the person I choose to tune my bikes.   

It is because of this, and his very thorough approach to all facets of his products is why I choose his work.

Ivan is away until September 5th, but will be ready to go, after that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:08:00 am by rcannon409 »

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 05:54:59 am »
The name is familiar, then I remembered that there was a gentleman named Ivan who used to offer TRE's for the C-14 (as well as other bikes). I believe this is the same person.

Glad that the flash is working out for you.

I took a quick look at his site and he seems to have a large volume of products for a large variety of bikes. Clearly he has some time and effort into this as well as a good deal of money invested.

Good info. on another potential vendor for the C-14. Thanks for taking the time to write the report and post it.

Brian

Guys, I don’t know if you've seen this new page on Ivans site:
http://www. ivansperformanceproducts.com/ ZG1400.htm

His tuning philosophy and approach is listed on this page on his site.
http://www. ivansperformanceproducts.com/ ecu.htm

Lots of good info here. and the engine is smooth as silk.

His Concours 14 reflash is now available.  I know many of us who are using his Ninja 1000 flash have waited a long time for this.

Fueling and driveability is flawless and the engine is smooth as silk from idle up to its "new and improved" redline. Make no mistake, this bike now feels like a 1400.

Engine response is instant, silky smooth, light and revvy just as you would expect a first class tune to be.

<snip>

I don’t work for Ivan, and I pay full price for any work that he does for me.
He has been tuning motorcycles for a living for more than 30 years, and has been in many of the magazines over the years for his abilities.

After riding my ninja 1000 that he re-flashed, as well as a friend’s fz09, this is the person I choose to tune my bikes.   

It is because of this, and his very thorough approach to all facets of his products is why I choose his work.

Ivan is away until September 5th, but will be ready to go, after that.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 06:18:15 am »
 I had previously been running the "files removed, fuel moto map"

I know people have asked that this be compared to a reflash.  The reflash is a big improvement. I wish I could assign a number. If you forced me to, id have to say 50-75% better. Removing the butterflies certainly helped, but they really need to be there, managed differently.

Im not bagging on Fuel Moto....Thank god, for Jamie. He made the 14 worth owning at  a time when we had nothing else. 

Worst part about this flash was having to put my butterflies back in.  If I have to do this again, I will buy/rent, and train some sort of Monkey with small hands.

I like the power improvement, but my absolute favorite part of this flash?   Its the parking lot seed stuff.  You guys know what this machine can be like at low speed. With the flash in place, the bike pulls clean from 6mph.  I can hold 6mph without any clutch, or brake work.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 07:18:01 am »
Yeah, I would also just as soon avoid putting the 'flies back in although my screw heads are not mangled and now we all know they have to go into the center, thanks to those pioneers who generated all of those sticking secondary 'flies' problems, so at least it should be a do-able thing on the first attempt. That said, I doubt I would put mine back in under any circumstances anyway; I like the bike 'fly-less' with an external mapping device. The next one will have a PC V w/ an O2 sensor and a closed loop auto- tune package but that is my own personal preference and not a knock against re- working an ECU. And, of course, the ability to change things such as fan switch points is a plus and not available with an external PC or anything similar.

And it makes a log of economic sense, far better than a PC V and tuning module: Ivan's flash is $350 by the looks (I just scanned the pages so that may not be right for the C-14), and the effort and skills required are very low IMO so 'bang for the buck', the flash is the way to go.

Ad to all of that that this is something that is used all the time the bike is ridden, at least most of the time, and it is not all that expensive IMO.

It will be interesting to get more information about this such as does he tinker with the ECO side of the maps, what other little 'treats' does he throw in there and what is the benefit, if any, in fuel economy at highway speeds. I am not really interested in the fuel economy as far as expense, but in stretching the bike's legs.

And I would never force you to assign a number to anything. But if someone did, and they kept at it long enough, with fresh batteries, I betcha' we could get you up to 90%, 100% and probably even 500%.   ;D

But again, glad to hear it is working for you, nice to hear it has other benefits such as the fan temp. control, and looking forward to hear more about things such as economy, highway speed engine vibration and so forth. I would LOVE to see a set of spark plugs out of an engine flashed after 30K or more miles; given that the C-14 runs so rich stock, I have to believe Ivan's re-flash goes a long way to preventing deposits all over the combustion chamber, I know a PC III with a 'standard' map does.

Brian

I had previously been running the "files removed, fuel moto map"

I know people have asked that this be compared to a reflash.  The reflash is a big improvement. I wish I could assign a number. If you forced me to, id have to say 50-75% better. Removing the butterflies certainly helped, but they really need to be there, managed differently.

Im not bagging on Fuel Moto....Thank god, for Jamie. He made the 14 worth owning at  a time when we had nothing else. 

Worst part about this flash was having to put my butterflies back in.  If I have to do this again, I will buy/rent, and train some sort of Monkey with small hands.

I like the power improvement, but my absolute favorite part of this flash?   Its the parking lot seed stuff.  You guys know what this machine can be like at low speed. With the flash in place, the bike pulls clean from 6mph.  I can hold 6mph without any clutch, or brake work.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 01:58:46 pm »
Wow, now we have three flashes available.  Who would have expected it?  Thanks for sharing the info.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 02:32:31 pm »
There are actually more than that available, and some have been around for quite a while.

ECU re-flashes are really pretty common and the only reason we (C-14 owners) do not see more if that we are C-14 owners :-)  Just not a very big market and so few are willing to put the time and money into it that it would require. Same thing has happened with Power Commander; they are alive and doing fine but not interested in the return from the C-14 market so no new maps for years now.

One of the basic rules in sales (meaning all business, all the time, everywhere): sell things that a lot of people buy. And if violating that rule, charge more for the item / service.... which again is why a $175 flash is ~$300 for a C-14. Move over to a Yamaha liter bike and watch them all appear and the price drop.

Brian

Wow, now we have three flashes available.  Who would have expected it?  Thanks for sharing the info.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 07:38:00 pm »
The butterflies were horrible to get back in...I wont lie about that. Never really meant to come out, or put back in. I misplaced my originals, but found a used throttle body for 40.00...no big deal, just remove those flies, and install in mine.

I can see why the tuners don't want us removing butterflies. On this used set, the screwes would not budge.  The screwes laughed at heat, and even my jis screwdriver stripped them.

Hope was, i'd have a few extra screwes, but I salvaged 2 from this new/used set.


I ended up dressing the threaded ends of my old ones, and they started no problem.  I'll bet it took me 2 hrs.

Honest, it is worth it.  The bike now has a good hit at 7000rpm, another at 9000 that pulls to an indicated 11,500rpm.  Obviously, the tach is optimistic. Probably closer to 10,500, in reality.

But seriously, how often can we use that, as fun as it is?

The part I like is the 0-20% throttle. Compared to our "flies out", it filled in the missing spots in that early part of the throttle.  There is still big power there, like we had without flies, but the bike pulls clean at 900 rpm.  Its not like we suffered, butterflies out, but this is even better.  I hope you can try one, sometime.  I think there was a lot more wrong than just the butterflies.

I'll say that along with a small prayer..please..no one ever do anything to make me remove these flies again.

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 02:57:21 pm »
BDF, you would be the last person I would ever try to lie to, or exaggerate to you.

The hit we love, with butterfles removed?  This flash is head and shoulders above that.

I dont know the specific details, but there were "restrictions" that just removing the butterflies did not eliminate.

I hope you get  a chance to try it.  The bike even sounds different. zx14 like, now.

I hope to take a decent ride, tomorrow, or sunday and see what sort of fuel mileage I get....or, just keep getting called into work for emergency calls...whatever fate has in mind.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 08:46:53 am »
Well I certainly do not think I implied you WOULD fib or exaggerate.

As I said, great that it works so well and you are so pleased with the performance. And again, for the price and effort, it is absolutely the best 'bang for the buck' available I believe.

All of that said, I think I would still go with 'flies removed and a self- tuning system, either external such as Dyno Tune, or the internal (Boys!) versions now available to read and record exhaust oxygen data and then re-flash the ECU using those self- generated maps. But it would absolutely be more expensive and far more work than an off the shelf re-flash of the ECU.

Best of luck with yours and I hope you continue to enjoy the bike more as time goes by.

Brian

BDF, you would be the last person I would ever try to lie to, or exaggerate to you.

The hit we love, with butterfles removed?  This flash is head and shoulders above that.

I dont know the specific details, but there were "restrictions" that just removing the butterflies did not eliminate.

I hope you get  a chance to try it.  The bike even sounds different. zx14 like, now.

I hope to take a decent ride, tomorrow, or sunday and see what sort of fuel mileage I get....or, just keep getting called into work for emergency calls...whatever fate has in mind.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 11:48:59 am »
BDF, no, no and no....I did not mean to say anything like that...scratch that comment I made,  please...

I have an adult brain, pretty much, but the typing, english and grammar skills of a slightly below average 5 year old.

The part we would not be able to access, doing it our way. ..I do mean "our way". I completely hate sending stuff away, and I love doing it all myself. 

There were some serious restrictions programmed in that would be extremely difficult/impossible to access.

He has it so dialed in, theres no need for AIS removal, marbles in the airbox, or any of that.






Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 06:27:10 pm »
Hey, no problem, I am not offended and as far as I can tell, you did not say anything wrong..... all is good.  :chugbeer:

As I said, I am sure it is the best bang for the buck, and is easily an improvement over the original Power Commanders and the maps they developed. That said, I still believe any vehicle can be better tuned for the rider, the circumstances, the altitude and a host of other things by the actual user rather than a canned solution. That plus I like to tinker myself, and the fact that I want to know what the mixture is rather than leave it to others; just a personal preference that I am willing to pay for with both time and money.

But again, good to know there is another tune out there that is of good (maybe great?) quality and has happy followers. The more available, the better it is for the consumer IMO. It also helps make the providers sharper 'cause they have some competition, which is always good for a 'good' business IMO.

So this is all good, and thanks for making the info. available to the rest of us.

Brian

BDF, no, no and no....I did not mean to say anything like that...scratch that comment I made,  please...

I have an adult brain, pretty much, but the typing, english and grammar skills of a slightly below average 5 year old.

The part we would not be able to access, doing it our way. ..I do mean "our way". I completely hate sending stuff away, and I love doing it all myself. 

There were some serious restrictions programmed in that would be extremely difficult/impossible to access.

He has it so dialed in, theres no need for AIS removal, marbles in the airbox, or any of that.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 07:37:45 pm »
BDF, you'll know the answer to this.

So, Ivans new Concours 14 flash includes all.  However, I was way too lazy to remove my power commander.  All I did was put in a map full of "0"

I said I would give you guys fuel mileage figures, and I will, as soon as I really have a  number based over more miles.

With all that said, how accurate is our onboard computer? In ways, its probably more accurate than hoping I fill my tank to the same level?

What I saw, today, at 60-65 mpg was interesting. But, I don't want to give that number and find out the computer is just  a random number generator, or such.

The "current" figure did more around, but I did find I could keep it within a pretty narrow window(@65mph) or + or- 3 mpg.

Of course, I have never once looked at, or checked this "current" figure with my stock bike at the same speed. I kept my bike in normal condition, for today.  C Bailey touring screen as well as leaving the bags on. No tucking in, or no action, by me, to try and manipulate the number.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2017, 08:15:38 pm »
Based on past anecdotal evidence, the computer is a bit optimistic in determining MPG.  Of course, YMMV.
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2017, 10:00:42 pm »
Ok, I can live with  optimistic.

 To set the location up, I was right at the edge of the Salt Flats, and crossing  a portion of them.

I decided to go 30 miles into them, catch the first exit, and return.  I was a rolling traffic block. The speed limit is 80, and not many obey that.  But I stayed with it. To be fair, I did pass a sheepherder, and his wagon..

I used my throttle lock, and that kept speeds between 60 and 65.    Reading "current"  It held numbers between 51-and 54mpg.   I found it interesting, and really kick myself for not knowing what the stock bike would do, in similar conditions.

Ill report back when I can run a few tank fulls through it.


Offline maxtog

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 06:01:14 am »
With all that said, how accurate is our onboard computer? In ways, its probably more accurate than hoping I fill my tank to the same level?

It won't be all that accurate since even the SLIGHTEST throttle change, wind change, weather change, traction change will alter it significantly.  Plus, in the real world, driving is never like that- RPM and loads will vary a lot.

The only way to have a MPG rating that is really meaningful in the real word is to have an average of averages across exact known amounts of gas.  The easiest way to do that is by measuring the gas as you fill it- use the "plate"in the tank for a known fill point and divide out your trip odometer reading.  Even that way, you are still getting an average across your entire riding, so for comparison, it requires trying to ride the "same way" (on average) across the tanks (or partial tanks).  Pretty much impossible, which is why an average of averages is even better which takes a lot of time.  And if you didn't do all that before, then you can't do it after.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc