Author Topic: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN  (Read 5751 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2017, 09:53:56 am »
Yeah, this is not like the Haroldo of old though, he used to get right back with the next installment.

Brian

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Offline Haroldo_PSF

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2017, 04:09:33 pm »
Yeah, this is not like the Haroldo of old though, he used to get right back with the next installment.

Brian

 Just picked up the bike today. Yes, this has indeed been going until TODAY ;D

Soooo, where did we leave off?.... Ok, after I pushed the bike back to the stealer (for 1.5 miles), with no position that would make it comfortable (Brian, enjoy), they called me back 3 days later because "it was easier to show me than tell me on the phone".
So, when I get there, the left side of the bike is taken apart, mainly that casing where the speedo attached to. There are some bevel gears in there which were mangled and worn out, thus the broken speed sensor.
It turns out, that in addition to the clutch being f-ed, those bevel gears were also broken. In fact, I believe one thing might have contributed to the other...
Anyway, the part alone was $1800, plus gaskets and labor, I would be looking at 2.5K on top of the 2K I had just spent.
I proceeded to ask some angry questions to the tech and the manager, like how come you didn't check hti sbevel gear the first time the speedo broke? They showed me how the troubleshoot it, and it made sense. They hook up a tester to the connector, and thats it. After a small inquisition, I was convinced the technician did the best he could the first time around, and I really had two bombs in my hands.
As this onversation took place, the manager found the bevel gear case on eBay for $100! Someone just happened to be parting out their 08 and the part looked to be in mint condish....
Soooooo, just today and $700 later (eBay part, more dealer parts like gaskets etc, and 4 hours of labor), I picked her up.
She rides great so far....

In summary, I spent $2.7K to fix an 08 with 95K miles on it.

Here is my follow up question:

The last valve check performed on the bike was at 40K miles. The first adjustment and check were done by myself (don't ask) at 13K miles, and valves were grossely out of spec. On the second check at 40K, they were in spec (dealer did it). So, now I'm at 95k, wondering if valve clearances tend to change with age of this bike or not. Given that they were badly out of spec at 13K and then in spec at 40K, I speculate things settled in there and clearance changes are minimal now.

What is the data on this? I'm sure there are many riders with 08s with triple digit odometer readings here... How have your valves behaved along the life of the engine>?

Since this is shim under bucket, does it make sense to assume that valves clearances tend to grow with time (loose clearances) instead of tight, which would be the lesser evil if indeed clearances were actually off?

Offline jimmymac

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2017, 05:17:53 pm »
Valves are always in spec, as long as someone else checks them. Just ride it. 8)
2010 Connie. No ABS, no TC, no linked brakes. A real bike.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2017, 05:34:53 pm »
The last valve check performed on the bike was at 40K miles. The first adjustment and check were done by myself (don't ask) at 13K miles, and valves were grossely out of spec. On the second check at 40K, they were in spec (dealer did it). So, now I'm at 95k, wondering if valve clearances tend to change with age of this bike or not. Given that they were badly out of spec at 13K and then in spec at 40K, I speculate things settled in there and clearance changes are minimal now.

I tend to try and follow that and it is just all over the map (pun intended).  From those who rarely have anything out of spec to those with significant adjustments.  Those that had nothing at lower mileage and then those that have significant adjustment later.  Nothing scientific, so it seems almost random.  The only trend I see seems to be that most people have little to no adjustment at the [USA] recommended interval, tending to reinforce the strangeness of the USA mileage recommendation compared to the interval given on the identical bike sold in the "rest-of-the-world."   After that, I don't see any trend.

I agree with the logic of your last sentence.  But who knows?
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2017, 08:50:34 pm »
Well, I guess it sounds like you are happy, and of course that works for me if it works for you...... but: I would call foul on the dealer's diagnosis. In fact, I DID call foul on their diagnosis in one of the very first responses in this thread- it just did not make sense that those two problems just occurred at the same time and we not related. Further, the only way I believe a set of bad bevel gears could damage the VSS would be to have mechanically damaged it, and regardless of what they say about the test, any human worth his / her salt should have seen the physical damage on the part when it was removed (and it had to be removed to be replaced) and said or done some further investigating (you can see one of the bevel gears through the VSS hole with nothing but a flashlight and a Mark I eyeball). So again, I would dump some level of miss- diagnosis on their doorstep because their mechanic pulled a physically damaged part from the bike, apparently did not [notice, care, concern himself / herself about the damage] deal with the fact that it was damage, and 'whistled a happy tune' while putting in a new VSS into the bad bevel gear ass'y. So Brian says that their diagnostic skills, both logical as well as physical, are faulty and they bear some of the burden of this current situation because they should have found the gear damage in the original assessment. It may not be fraud but it is certainly grossly unprofessional and unacceptable for a service they sell, and you purchased. All IMO of course.

The valves. Now this is a touchy subject with you Haroldo so......  ;) ;D :o   First, which way do they wear: well, both ways, tighter and less tight, all at once. Any wear between the cam lobe and the follower (the 'bucket' in this bike) will result in the clearance increasing. But any wear between the valve face and the valve seat (in the head) will result in the clearance decreasing. Now both sets of these parts wear, and it is impossible to predict which is 'winning', if either one. If the engine is used hard (yep, this is where I would stick 'it'), the valve seats usually wear considerably faster than the cam and follower, resulting in decreasing clearance. But in more casual use, it cannot be predicted in any way that I know of.

Mine were all in spec. except for one at 25K miles and I left them; not worth pulling the cams for 0.001" adjustment IMO, on my bike. At 50K miles, they were all back in spec. though some at the outside limits (which is STILL in spec.; I do not subscribe to 'in the middle of the range' is better, w/in spec. is w/in spec., and the manufacturer knew what they were spec'ing when they wrote the spec.'s). Bike is now at 99K miles and the plan was to check the lash again but that has not happened due to to other circumstances so..... no knowledge of where they are.

The only way to know is to measure them, there are no other methods that even indicate which way they may be out of spec. IMO. Obviously my opinion would be to check the lash at 100K miles but that is of course your choice. Not much danger of having too much clearance but if the clearance drops to zero while the bike is running, you run the risk of burning a valve and valve seat, which whill require removing the head and repairing it or replacing it (the entire head and valves). This is not likely IMO but absolutely possible. ??

There is little data available for valve lash at 100K miles on these engines (C-14 or ZX 14), and certainly not enough to form any rational opinion. So, no data.

Brian

Just picked up the bike today. Yes, this has indeed been going until TODAY ;D

Soooo, where did we leave off?.... Ok, after I pushed the bike back to the stealer (for 1.5 miles), with no position that would make it comfortable (Brian, enjoy), they called me back 3 days later because "it was easier to show me than tell me on the phone".
So, when I get there, the left side of the bike is taken apart, mainly that casing where the speedo attached to. There are some bevel gears in there which were mangled and worn out, thus the broken speed sensor.
It turns out, that in addition to the clutch being f-ed, those bevel gears were also broken. In fact, I believe one thing might have contributed to the other...
Anyway, the part alone was $1800, plus gaskets and labor, I would be looking at 2.5K on top of the 2K I had just spent.
I proceeded to ask some angry questions to the tech and the manager, like how come you didn't check hti sbevel gear the first time the speedo broke? They showed me how the troubleshoot it, and it made sense. They hook up a tester to the connector, and thats it. After a small inquisition, I was convinced the technician did the best he could the first time around, and I really had two bombs in my hands.
As this onversation took place, the manager found the bevel gear case on eBay for $100! Someone just happened to be parting out their 08 and the part looked to be in mint condish....
Soooooo, just today and $700 later (eBay part, more dealer parts like gaskets etc, and 4 hours of labor), I picked her up.
She rides great so far....

In summary, I spent $2.7K to fix an 08 with 95K miles on it.

Here is my follow up question:

The last valve check performed on the bike was at 40K miles. The first adjustment and check were done by myself (don't ask) at 13K miles, and valves were grossely out of spec. On the second check at 40K, they were in spec (dealer did it). So, now I'm at 95k, wondering if valve clearances tend to change with age of this bike or not. Given that they were badly out of spec at 13K and then in spec at 40K, I speculate things settled in there and clearance changes are minimal now.

What is the data on this? I'm sure there are many riders with 08s with triple digit odometer readings here... How have your valves behaved along the life of the engine>?

Since this is shim under bucket, does it make sense to assume that valves clearances tend to grow with time (loose clearances) instead of tight, which would be the lesser evil if indeed clearances were actually off?
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Haroldo_PSF

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - CONCLUSION
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2019, 03:12:10 pm »
Thought I'd conclude this thread. Interesting, when I posted this in 2017, I mentioned future plans to own the super duke GT. Here is the conclusion :)
 Last year we went to our 5 day nor cal ride as we do every year. The Concours with now 98K on the odo worked like a swiss clock. After all the repairs, it was running perfectly. However, at some point during the trip, I started to notice the front brakes were feeling squishy. I continued the ride, which was epic by the way. On the last day, about 50 miles from home, returning to bay area traffic, the brakes were feeling much worse. I was touching the lever to the grip to actuate the brake. I did have steel braided lines, but this was still happening. As I took a freeway exit ramp, I felt the brakes were almost gone.
What I did next was a very stupid thing. I polled over on the left side shoulder of the freeway off ramp, if you can imagine that. I was just freaked out about having no front brakes, and decided to stop on a legal, but incredibly dangerous spot. I was tired and not thinking clearly, of course. As I  am still on the bike, on the shoulder, feeling out the brakes, BAM!. I don't remember between getting hit, and waking up on the ground, but some mother$#@%er tried to overtake a semi, went onto the shoulder, and nailed me from behind. I had a bad concussion and a fractured sacrum. The Concours was completely gone.
So, that concludes exactly 10 years of ownership and excitement that I had with that bike.
I made a full recovery quickly (within 2 months or so), and tomorrow I pick up a new 2019 KTM Super Duke GT (the white and orange one), which is today what the Concours was in 2008 when it was released, the best SPORT tourer in the world (arguably the best road bike in general). Anyway, hoping to have as much fun on the KTM as I had on the Concours.

Cheers!

Offline PH14

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2019, 05:51:45 pm »
Wow! So sorry to hear, but I am glad you are healed and back in the game. Enjoy the new bike!

Offline katata1100

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2019, 07:17:50 pm »
Junking a motorcycle because it has a bad clutch sounds like shooting your dog because he has a broken leg.
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Offline STC14JIM

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2019, 07:54:55 am »
Well, that worked out good !! ( Kidding, kidding ).  Good to hear you made a fairly quick recovery and I hope you sued the you-know-what out of the cager that ran into you.

But spending $1,900 on the repair with the hope of getting 50K more miles out of the bike makes sense to me.  Then sell it after the 50K miles for $1,000.  A net cost of only $500.  With the bad clutch, it probably wasn't worth much more than that.

Online kzz1king

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2019, 08:20:02 am »
 The bike and rider were rear ended . Fixing the clutch when the brakes were fading isn't going to help.

Congrates on the new bike . I rode one and if I could afford It would have one in the garage.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - AGAIN
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2019, 04:47:28 pm »
Glad you're ok, Harold, and still riding.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: My clutch blew up ( and the speedometer too) - CONCLUSION
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2019, 05:24:15 pm »
Wow Haroldo, always a great story from you. Not joking about the injuries of course, and certainly glad to hear you healed from the accident. But the overall story is..... is...... 'Haroldoinium'.   ;) ;) ;D :o

Congrats on the new bike though, I am sure you will have a great time with it and maybe an adventure or two worth posting. By all means, stop by here occasionally at least and let us know how you are doing as well as how the new ride is working out for you.

Great to hear from you even with the bad news in the middle- it sounds like it has ended well.

Brian

Thought I'd conclude this thread. Interesting, when I posted this in 2017, I mentioned future plans to own the super duke GT. Here is the conclusion :)
 Last year we went to our 5 day nor cal ride as we do every year. The Concours with now 98K on the odo worked like a swiss clock. After all the repairs, it was running perfectly. However, at some point during the trip, I started to notice the front brakes were feeling squishy. I continued the ride, which was epic by the way. On the last day, about 50 miles from home, returning to bay area traffic, the brakes were feeling much worse. I was touching the lever to the grip to actuate the brake. I did have steel braided lines, but this was still happening. As I took a freeway exit ramp, I felt the brakes were almost gone.
What I did next was a very stupid thing. I polled over on the left side shoulder of the freeway off ramp, if you can imagine that. I was just freaked out about having no front brakes, and decided to stop on a legal, but incredibly dangerous spot. I was tired and not thinking clearly, of course. As I  am still on the bike, on the shoulder, feeling out the brakes, BAM!. I don't remember between getting hit, and waking up on the ground, but some mother$#@%er tried to overtake a semi, went onto the shoulder, and nailed me from behind. I had a bad concussion and a fractured sacrum. The Concours was completely gone.
So, that concludes exactly 10 years of ownership and excitement that I had with that bike.
I made a full recovery quickly (within 2 months or so), and tomorrow I pick up a new 2019 KTM Super Duke GT (the white and orange one), which is today what the Concours was in 2008 when it was released, the best SPORT tourer in the world (arguably the best road bike in general). Anyway, hoping to have as much fun on the KTM as I had on the Concours.

Cheers!
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com