Author Topic: I need to vent about this......  (Read 13866 times)

Offline zsiska

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2011, 04:03:34 am »
Well as long as we are fantasizing about possible outcomes of the scenario, let's toss this one out:

Father and daughter have a great relationship, including riding together on the motorcycle.  Do-gooder/busybody/caring citizen calls the police.  CPS is involved.  Dad gets fined and some jail time.  Family finances take a beating.  Divorce.  Daughter loses loving relationship with dad.  At 14, runs away from now-broken home.  Lives on street.  Becomes hooker.  Dies of drug overdose at 17.

Since the do-gooder never gets to see the results of their action, they sleep peacefully, never knowing of the lives they have destroyed.

One could argue that it is a bit far-fetched, but it is just as likely as the girl dieing in a crash in front of your eyes.

So I still say, none of your business.  Mind your own kids.  Please.

+1

Unless of course as I said previously it is an obvious case of severe beatings, rape, etc.

Offline Tactical_Mik

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2011, 05:04:56 am »
I don't think there is really a right or wrong answer.  There are too many variables to consider.  Legal abligation, moral obligation and what ever mental propensity each individual making the assessment has.  While I would have thought that it wasn't the best decision, I probably would not have taken the action the OP questions. 

Here in Kansas all passengers must have foot rests.  I have a friend who routinely rides with 2 or 3 of his kids on his Gold Wing.  They all wear helmets and such and have solid places for their feet.  I don't really agree with that either but he is operating within the confines of the current laws and these  chillins range from 8 to 11 years old.   I have given nieces and nephews rides on my bike with out any safety equipment.  This was neighborhood stuff at slow speeds but it was certainly braking the law. 

In the hypothetical world that some of the comments in this thread live, there are lots of things that I might take exception to.  However, unless there was an imediate danger to life and I was I was in a position to stop loss of life with out making the situation more dangerous I would not step in. 

I don't have chillins (unless there are a bunch of short, angry asians running around Japan/Okinawa  :) ), I was raised to make my own decisions.  Some where bad, resulting in a beating.  Some where good, resulting in understanding respect from my parents.  Too many people today think it is their right to make decisions for others.  Sad really but such is life today.
T.S.R.

Offline sas mayhem

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2011, 03:43:13 pm »
  WOW !!! We have some very interesting view point of what I saw, and most of the a valid and make sense, to which I respect.  :thumbs:  I'll little of my back ground to try to explain why I was shocked.  I did the  US Air Force for 20 yrs, aircraft mechanic, QA, aircraft inspection and Crew Chief and Flight Line super.  So I'm always look at things as a safety and "what if " point of view. Sought-of looking at the odds. 
  When I saw that the first thing that went thru my mind was, "that is a hellof a risk.  As WE all know when on the interstate rolling at 70+, an emergency situation can happen real fast and without warning.  So trying to handle your scoot and hold a child on, will be kinda impossible.
I don't think I'm being a busy boddy I honestly think the odds where not in the child's favor.   70+ NO WAY.

 Read this and you'll see were I'm coming from, I simple lapse in judgement caused all this.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352566

Cheers
Ron

09 Connie
...try to live a day without doing one of the 5 D’s....Deny, Defer, Deflect, Discount and Deceit...tougher than it sounds....

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2011, 05:04:26 pm »
AF and a crew chief, you're ok in my book... :thumbs:   Thanks for serving!
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2011, 06:18:16 pm »
I'm a grandpa, and can't wait (tho I will..) to take my grand doughter and grandson on some fun rides.. with that said, it will be with reasonble protective gear, at reasonable speeds, and on reasonable roads.... willfull neglect for "correct" thinking aside, anyone placing thier pseudo-offspring" at risk need to be surgically "re-alligned"
I cannot wait to take my grand-doughter on a serious ride, to  bond, and enjoy, and to share my passsion, just sooo f'd up some folks don't get the hint on how to do it safely....
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 06:51:28 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline sas mayhem

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2011, 06:41:05 pm »
just sooo f'd up some folks don't get the hint on how to do it safely....

Ditto MOB  :thumbs:

and Thank you vajim :chugbeer:
09 Connie
...try to live a day without doing one of the 5 D’s....Deny, Defer, Deflect, Discount and Deceit...tougher than it sounds....

Offline mach1charlie

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2011, 01:47:13 pm »
How dare someone make a decision regarding the welfare of their own child?  The unmitigated gall!
While I may, and do, agree with your assessment of the wisdom of his actions, it really isn't any of your (or my) business.  Should I call the police or CPS or any government agency or official because I don't like the way you raise your kid?  What if you let them watch the wrong show, or read the wrong book, or go to the wrong church, or eat the wrong food, or play with the wrong toys, or live in the wrong neighborhood, or whatever - the list is infinite. 

Teach correct principles.  Let the people govern themselves.  Freedom is better than coercion, even if "we" are "smarter" than "them" and "know" what is "best" for "them".

Should have put up a poll for this.

I am with the above post...MYOB, its his kid, his bike, his life,
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Offline tidewatergirl

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 08:17:08 pm »
There is no political correctness on stupid. No ones constitutional rights have been denied by calling the cops when a law is being broke and a childs life is saved. If we are not our brothers keeper then why befriend a broken down roadside biker or stop for stop signs.....screw the posted speed limits....etc. When any of us walk out the door of our humble homes we join society whether we like it or not.....and we should look out for the weak and oppressed.  Any Veterans agree with that on this Memorial Day......shouldn't that concept begin on our  front door as well as abroad.  I'm just saying..... :-*
On the blue shore of silence

Offline Mal

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2011, 09:53:28 pm »
Should have put up a poll for this.

I am with the above post...MYOB, its his kid, his bike, his life,

His life, his decision. His kids life, not his decision....
`09 ZG-1400
Western Colorado

"It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others" —Henry George

Offline lt1

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2011, 10:36:48 pm »
Oh, wow.  So you want someone calling the police everytime you break a law?  Regardless of whether you think that it is a good law?  Maybe if that happened we would lose some of the stupid laws we have.  Assuming anyone still had enough life, liberty or property left to change the laws.

Of all the "caring, neighborly" posters here, not one of you has shown a whit of interest in getting to know the dad, and talking to him about bike safety.  Utter hypocrisy.

If your child's life is not your decision, just whose decision is it?  Mine?  Some gov't committee?  CPS?  As I stated before, every day parent's make decisions that affect their children's lives.  When I was a kid, there were no seatbelts in the cars we had, and it was not illegal for me to ride standing up, sitting down, or laying on the shelf in the rear window.  Now it is a crime.  Same behavior, but now illegal.  My parents "put my (then a child) life at risk.  Should we dig them out of their graves & prosecute?  They let me ride a minibike w/ no helmet.  Evil criminals.  Some of you might want to re-examine just how many of your freedoms you want to give up while you are wanting to take them away from others. 

The man did not kill his kid.  Get a grip.  Please.
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Offline Tim

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2011, 02:33:53 am »
I can see some here have not had to deal with kids and bad choices. Have any of you had to tell a dad his kids ere dead because his wife did not make them wear their seatbelts when she was driving them to church, hit a slick spot, went into the oncoming lane hitting another car head on which pitched 3 kids out of the car.  One boy and two girls. The oldest was 9 and the youngest was 2. They died at the scene. I got to do this within the last 3 months. Not Fun, trust me. It was not my accident but I got stuck telling dad all about it. Wife was airlifted to Seattle. She made it but she doesn't have any kids anymore.  :'(

I don't always ride a street bike. But when I do, it's a Concours. Ride safely my friend.

Offline bob14

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2011, 06:08:14 am »
How dare someone make a decision regarding the welfare of their own child?  The unmitigated gall!
While I may, and do, agree with your assessment of the wisdom of his actions, it really isn't any of your (or my) business.  Should I call the police or CPS or any government agency or official because I don't like the way you raise your kid?  What if you let them watch the wrong show, or read the wrong book, or go to the wrong church, or eat the wrong food, or play with the wrong toys, or live in the wrong neighborhood, or whatever - the list is infinite. 

Teach correct principles.  Let the people govern themselves.  Freedom is better than coercion, even if "we" are "smarter" than "them" and "know" what is "best" for "them".
+1
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Offline JetJock

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2011, 06:25:14 am »
There is no political correctness on stupid. No ones constitutional rights have been denied by calling the cops when a law is being broke and a childs life is saved. If we are not our brothers keeper then why befriend a broken down roadside biker or stop for stop signs.....screw the posted speed limits....etc. When any of us walk out the door of our humble homes we join society whether we like it or not.....and we should look out for the weak and oppressed.  Any Veterans agree with that on this Memorial Day......shouldn't that concept begin on our  front door as well as abroad.  I'm just saying..... :-*

+1  Well said.

Offline Mal

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2011, 07:20:18 am »
Oh, wow.  So you want someone calling the police everytime you break a law?  Regardless of whether you think that it is a good law?  Maybe if that happened we would lose some of the stupid laws we have.  Assuming anyone still had enough life, liberty or property left to change the laws.

Of all the "caring, neighborly" posters here, not one of you has shown a whit of interest in getting to know the dad, and talking to him about bike safety.  Utter hypocrisy.

If your child's life is not your decision, just whose decision is it?  Mine?  Some gov't committee?  CPS?  As I stated before, every day parent's make decisions that affect their children's lives.  When I was a kid, there were no seatbelts in the cars we had, and it was not illegal for me to ride standing up, sitting down, or laying on the shelf in the rear window.  Now it is a crime.  Same behavior, but now illegal.  My parents "put my (then a child) life at risk.  Should we dig them out of their graves & prosecute?  They let me ride a minibike w/ no helmet.  Evil criminals.  Some of you might want to re-examine just how many of your freedoms you want to give up while you are wanting to take them away from others. 

The man did not kill his kid.  Get a grip.  Please.

There is a huge difference between 'breaking a law' and endangering a child. It is a parents obligation to protect the life of their children, not endanger them. If the guy wants to ride naked, I don't care, it's his choice. It is not the child's choice to ride unprotected, he/she can't complain, or say they don't want to. The decision is made for them, by the parent.
Your right, things that were legal before, like riding in the bed of a pickup, are illegal now, mostly because we've learned better. I don't support most of those laws for adults, but I do for kids. You see, adults can make informed decisions, children can't. Most of the time I don't care what illegal activity you're into, as long as you're not violating or threatening someone else's rights. Then there will be a problem. This man was threatening his child's right to life, and you're damn straight I'm gonna report him, or you, or anyone else who threatens harm to others, just like I'd report a drunk driver.
You want to look the other way? Fine, it's your right to do so. If you come across the accident scene with a tiny body bag a few miles down the road, I hope your sanctimonious rationalization helps you sleep that night...
`09 ZG-1400
Western Colorado

"It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others" —Henry George

Offline lt1

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2011, 11:38:47 am »
Friend, I find that post hilarious.  Or your signature line hilarious.  Or the combination of the two.  All of life is risk.  Either risk management belongs to the individual, or it belongs to someone else (the government).  I think my position is clear, if not well-stated.  I believe I understand yours. 

At some point, you have to either claim the right to control other people, or you have to let it go.  IMO, it is better to teach, even though some will choose wrong.  Force vs persuasion.  Freedom vs subjection.  I have not always lived the principle well, but I stand on the side of freedom.  Even with the risks that freedom entails.
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