Author Topic: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.  (Read 42028 times)

Offline Conrad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5779
  • Country: us
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #105 on: December 16, 2012, 08:39:06 am »
All of his videos have a point, Conrad.  The fun is figuring them out.

That's true Jim but one man's fun is another man's, er, um, help me out here...   ???
Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #106 on: December 16, 2012, 10:22:55 am »
To understand the point of the last video we must first understand what is meant by "bolt lens". I don't have the foggiest idea.

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10771
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #107 on: December 16, 2012, 10:29:42 am »
Now this is fun!
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2016 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home.

Offline MGvaleri

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #108 on: December 16, 2012, 11:47:13 am »
Now this is fun!
:rotflmao: :chugbeer: :rotflmao:
It's funny, I understand you, you do not understand me.
So my fault is only due to breakage of the bearing due to the lack of fat (lubricant).

MGvalerio. :rotflmao:
Centauro ancora a  60 anni,..che non finisca mai!!!

Offline ugocon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #109 on: December 16, 2012, 11:49:02 am »
To understand the point of the last video we must first understand what is meant by "bolt lens". I don't have the foggiest idea.

I assume it is "loose bolt" ;)

Just to explain to whom is interested, in Italian the adjective "loose" is translated "lento", that means also "slow" and in this form is far more used.
There's also a noun very similar, that is "lente" and means "lens" (optical)

Clearly, Google translator uses maximum likehood criteria for traslating thus it "rounded"  lento to lente... and that's it!   :D
Stand out from the crowd: do not buy a BMW !!!

Offline MGvaleri

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #110 on: December 17, 2012, 09:39:06 am »
These unknown .. well on Manual: Operation and Maintenance: Kawasaki

Not words but deeds. ;)



MGvalerio. 8)
Centauro ancora a  60 anni,..che non finisca mai!!!

Offline connie1

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Country: ca
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #111 on: December 17, 2012, 12:42:23 pm »
I'm no expert but the left bearing looks like water damage to me.  But if MG stated that he never pressure washed it then the lack of lube from factory must be the case.
I rarely open sealed bearings as I'm usually confident of them having enough lube from factory...but this ruins that confidence and I guess I'll go in and repack all my wheel bearings this winter (especially after seeing the damage that not doing it could do).

I usually use Shell moly grease in most applications but with high speed bearings is there something better?
Man do I love this bike! Red '09

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #112 on: December 17, 2012, 05:44:36 pm »
I am not sure if the bearing failure was caused by an assembly error or not but it is hard for me to believe that a fully tightened axle could turn inside the right hand swingarm. Assuming the sequence of events started with a bearing failure, the worst thing that could have happened would have been for the inner and outer races of the bearing locking together (i.e., siezing); after that I believe the bearing would have been ripped out of the wheel bearing bore before the axle would have turned inside the swingarm. Not to throw rocks at anyone, and I don't know the ultimate start of the failure but I also believe the axle must not have been tightened for this series of failures to happen.

Brian

Ask yourself this.  What would happen if the axle nut was loose, lets say the spacer got hung up during assembly somehow, the nut felt tight, but once moving it freed itself.  What will that new gap create?  I really do believe this was an assembly error, we all make em.  Bottom line is for whatever reason MG survived to ride another day.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline MGvaleri

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #113 on: December 17, 2012, 11:49:44 pm »
I am not sure if the bearing failure was caused by an assembly error or not but it is hard for me to believe that a fully tightened axle could turn inside the right hand swingarm. Assuming the sequence of events started with a bearing failure, the worst thing that could have happened would have been for the inner and outer races of the bearing locking together (i.e., siezing); after that I believe the bearing would have been ripped out of the wheel bearing bore before the axle would have turned inside the swingarm. Not to throw rocks at anyone, and I don't know the ultimate start of the failure but I also believe the axle must not have been tightened for this series of failures to happen.

Brian
[/quote
Conoscete voi  come è fatto l'insieme ruota per girare ??? credo proprio di no , asse ,copri asse,cuscinetti,dado!!!, Smontate da voi il  C 14 !!!,vi mostrerò con video clip l'insieme
Vi siete chiesti !...un solo C14 in  5 anni di vita in quelle condizioni 
Dado non stretto bene !!! ho  percorso 14.000 km da l'ultimo cambio treno gomme.

Con dado non stretto non avrei avuto tutto quel disastro,ripeto la causa sta per come è
l'insieme ruota,pernio,copri pernio,cuscinetti.
Centauro ancora a  60 anni,..che non finisca mai!!!

Offline ugocon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #114 on: December 18, 2012, 12:57:54 am »

Conoscete voi  come è fatto l'insieme ruota per girare ??? credo proprio di no , asse ,copri asse,cuscinetti,dado!!!, Smontate da voi il  C 14 !!!,vi mostrerò con video clip l'insieme
Vi siete chiesti !...un solo C14 in  5 anni di vita in quelle condizioni 
Dado non stretto bene !!! ho  percorso 14.000 km da l'ultimo cambio treno gomme.

Con dado non stretto non avrei avuto tutto quel disastro,ripeto la causa sta per come è
l'insieme ruota,pernio,copri pernio,cuscinetti.

Stai dicendo che è assemblata male all'origine??

Are you saying that the assembly of the whole group (wheel, axle, bearings, covers)  is not well designed???

Stand out from the crowd: do not buy a BMW !!!

Offline MGvaleri

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #115 on: December 18, 2012, 03:36:18 am »
Stai dicendo che è assemblata male all'origine??

Are you saying that the assembly of the whole group (wheel, axle, bearings, covers)  is not well designed???


Sto cercando di fare capire che loro non conoscono bene come è fatto tutto l'insieme della  ruota del C14 con cuscinetti,con il  pernio,il dado e cilindri che ricoprono il pernio ruota.
Dalle loro risposte o dedotto che ...  non abbiamo mai smontato tale reparto in ogni suo particolare del funzionamento per come gira la ruota in una trasmissione cardanica.(Vedere Video Clip )
Col Video Clip sarà sfatato  che serrare  il dado del fermo pernio ruota in  2 modi,..nel 1° caso di stringerlo poco,non 120nm ma a 40nm,nessun gioco,nel 2 stringere come è prescritto,in tutte e 2 i casi non si fa altro che nel 1° caso di non mettere in tensione  la filettatura del pernio,nel secondo caso metti in tensione  la filettatura del pernio ruota,essendoci una coppiglia di fermo dado del pernio ruota,l'allenta-mento non può verificarsi,quindi un cedimento di un solo cuscinetto del pernio ruota come nel mio caso a creato uno spostamento delle sfere spostando il  fulcro che deve rimanere parallelo dall'asse del tetra lever  a la corona del giunto cardanico,in queste condizioni il pernio ruota girerà sulle sue piattaforme (T.L/ C.G.Ca/d'ancoraggio ,il pernio ruota  non può essere stretto più del necessario causa tolleranze fisse che sono determinatedalle  lunghezze interne cilindriche del copri pernio ruota.
Dopo questa dimostrazione in v.clip ...chiudo... ,  la meccanica non è un'opinione ma un dado di fatto,EGR.ING.Ugocon.Grazie.. ;D




MGvalerio. 8)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 05:06:32 am by MGvaleri »
Centauro ancora a  60 anni,..che non finisca mai!!!

Offline ugocon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #116 on: December 18, 2012, 08:29:30 am »
I talked to Valerio otherwise no way to understand...  ::)

Recapping the WHOLE story according to Valerio:

The original failure that led to the "disaster" is defective right bearings.
The number of spheres inside is correct, the problem is that it has been mounted with no grease at all!
When I opened both the bearings, the right one was without grease whilst the left one had still a fairly amount of grease.
Possible objection: no, the grease has been removed by high pressure water, you dumbass  ;D
Impossible, because when the grease is present, the water simply slips away over the thin grease layer; moreover the bearing covers adequately protect the bearings from direct exposure to high pressure water (they were intact)
Why then it happened after 45.000 kms???
I never rode the bike for long rides, only around my place: short and frequent tirps and at an average low speed.
This generated a minor overheating effect and  the bearings lasted longer.
Yes, but you should have heard a progressive deterioration of the bearings, some kind of noise....
No, because this would happen only for normal wear with grease. The lack of grease has instead generated overheating, not the usual play/noise, that ended up in the sudden "disaster"
No, it's a matter of how tight you tightened the axle: when you changed your tyre...
14.000 kms ago??? and it lasted that long with no perceivable sign???
In my last clip I show you that tightening more or less is seamless because in the end there's a cotter pin locking everything thus a loosening cannot happen.

What did we learn from this??
Better to check when you change your tyres that the bearings are provided with grease! ;)


Hope I understood correctly and, most important, clearly reported to you! :)
Stand out from the crowd: do not buy a BMW !!!

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #117 on: December 18, 2012, 09:25:41 am »
Got it. Lack of grease caused the failure and it didn't reveal itself until a long ride. Since my bike has >50,000 kilometers and much of it high speed long distance I can assume my bearings have grease. My question for all is: can the seal be removed and then reinstalled without damage? If so I can check and repack at the next tire change.

Offline MGvaleri

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Country: it
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #118 on: December 18, 2012, 09:33:20 am »
Got it. Lack of grease caused the failure and it didn't reveal itself until a long ride. Since my bike has >50,000 kilometers and much of it high speed long distance I can assume my bearings have grease. My question for all is: can the seal be removed and then reinstalled without damage? If so I can check and repack at the next tire change.

Yes ,can the seal be removed and then reinstalled without damage .

MGvalerio. 8)
Centauro ancora a  60 anni,..che non finisca mai!!!

Offline pistole

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 261
Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #119 on: December 18, 2012, 09:35:41 am »
- wait , is it right that the dude is saying that his rear wheel bearing survived 45000 kms (28000 miles) without any grease ?

.