Author Topic: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.  (Read 42233 times)

Offline MGvaleri

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2012, 10:09:37 am »
- wait , is it right that the dude is saying that his rear wheel bearing survived 45000 kms (28000 miles) without any grease ?

.


The higher load is supported ... see photos.

     
Il mio filmato 17


MGvalerio 8)
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Offline ugocon

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2012, 02:15:02 pm »
- wait , is it right that the dude is saying that his rear wheel bearing survived 45000 kms (28000 miles) without any grease ?

.

Yes, because most of the weight is supported by the cardan shaft on the left side (see clips above)
This plus always short trips helped the right bearings to last that long.
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Offline MGvaleri

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #122 on: December 19, 2012, 07:10:09 am »
Arrived parts, but lacking holder clamp and a seal, because Christmas holidays shipments for spare parts to resume new year, or to suffer a little.

Success, I added grease to the two new bearings.


MGvalerio. 8)

« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 11:29:38 am by MGvaleri »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2012, 11:35:06 am »
I am not sure if the bearing failure was caused by an assembly error or not but it is hard for me to believe that a fully tightened axle could turn inside the right hand swingarm. Assuming the sequence of events started with a bearing failure, the worst thing that could have happened would have been for the inner and outer races of the bearing locking together (i.e., siezing); after that I believe the bearing would have been ripped out of the wheel bearing bore before the axle would have turned inside the swingarm. Not to throw rocks at anyone, and I don't know the ultimate start of the failure but I also believe the axle must not have been tightened for this series of failures to happen.

Brian

Bingo Brian....
I said this right from the start.....and stand by it still.... ;) :chugbeer:
 :popcorn:

I'll explain for the rest.... ::)
the axle, when tightened fully in position, is compressing the stack of spacers,bearing center races, and swingarm intoan imovable "column"....the rotating components are supported on the balls, and outer races.... no mater if the bearing fails, the axle shaft CANNOT rotate if tightened fully. One of the vids showed that the spacer that reside between the brake caliper, and the wheel bearing, was totally welded onto the axle, as was the swingarm on the other side of the caliper....that could not have occured unless the axle was not tightened. The cotterpin is moot....the nut was not tight. ;)

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline McJunkie

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2012, 11:48:50 am »
Bingo Brian....
I said this right from the start.....and stand by it still.... ;) :chugbeer:
 :popcorn:

I'll explain for the rest.... ::)
the axle, when tightened fully in position, is compressing the stack of spacers,bearing center races, and swingarm intoan imovable "column"....the rotating components are supported on the balls, and outer races.... no mater if the bearing fails, the axle shaft CANNOT rotate if tightened fully. One of the vids showed that the spacer that reside between the brake caliper, and the wheel bearing, was totally welded onto the axle, as was the swingarm on the other side of the caliper....that could not have occured unless the axle was not tightened. The cotterpin is moot....the nut was not tight. ;)

+2

Offline MGvaleri

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2012, 11:26:32 pm »
the opposite is true ... if the spacer fused to the pivot was not tightened properly did not happen and the revolution of the merger.
The mechanics is not an opinion.


MGvalerio. 8)
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Offline Rhino

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #126 on: December 20, 2012, 10:35:44 am »
the opposite is true ... if the spacer fused to the pivot was not tightened properly did not happen and the revolution of the merger.
The mechanics is not an opinion.


MGvalerio. 8)

He's got a point. If the axle welded to the spacer it means the axle spun but the spacer didn't. If not properly tight, wouldn't the spacer spin with the axle?

Offline Pepsi Supplier

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #127 on: December 20, 2012, 11:42:26 am »
 I have seen wheel bearings go bad and do the same thing, even with the axle properly tightened. So I wouldn't jump to installer error too quickly, But I also don't believe for a minute that the bearing came missing balls or without lube and lasted more than a few hundred miles regardless how short the trips were. I find it much more likely the grease burned away when the bearing failed.
 See the pitting and rust on the axle and inside the bearing. water intrusion from some means. Sure the bearings come with precious little grease in them, but introduce moisture and rust will follow.

Personally I remove the rubber shield and repack mine every few tire changes on the front and a little less often on the rear. I hardly ever wash my bike, but I ride in plenty of rain.

I also don't suscribe wholly to the outer dust seal being a contributor, as I raced for 12 years and removed those immediately for less rolling friction and ran the same race bike with the same wheel bearings for 6 years. I would easily clock over 5000 miles per year between practice and races and twice each year the bike would run in a 5 hour endurance race and then also run a 3 hour endurance race. Back then I did not know or do nearly as much maintenance to my bikes as I do now. I would be willing to state that it is highly likely that I never removed the bearing seal to repack the actual bearing. Come to think of it, my SV had steel seals on the bearing itself.
 The inside of the wheel has no dust shield. Just the big gaps in the rim to the spacer which holds the axle inside, so that bearing seal is its only protection from water, sand etc...

It is a bearing failure, it happens. I don't blame kawasaki or MGValerio, although perhaps some more attentive maintenance would have prevented this. ie removing and packing the bearings earlier, as he showed he now did to the front wheel.

I have 70,200 miles on my bike, still all original bearings and not worried about them one little bit.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #128 on: December 20, 2012, 12:17:32 pm »
+1 and I haven't repacked mine either.  Course I don't wash it so maybe that's why the bearings have lasted so long.
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Offline yellowrench

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #129 on: December 20, 2012, 08:18:56 pm »
Not the way to properly pack a bearing, even if only adding grease.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #130 on: December 21, 2012, 03:44:25 pm »
I assume by all the exclamation points that you disagree with my opinion on this.... :-)   I understand completely, and you may be right of course.

When the axle (front or rear) on a motorcycle is tightened, there are dozens or hundreds of tons of force applied to the axle, effectively stretching it and binding all the inner tubes together to make a cohesive unit. The inner parts are the bearing inside races, the tubes spacing the bearings apart, the brake support bracket, the hub and the swingarm mounting points. Once that assembly is under tension / compression, it is extremely rigid and strong, and that one of two standard methods used to make a bearing mounted assembly (the other being to do a similar thing with the outer races and associated mounting parts). Under that kind of stress, when a bearing fails the device that is rotating on the bearing(s) must either seize and stop immediately or cause something else to break free and rotate; as it is not likely that the rear wheel assembly of a motorcycle (at least a large motorcycle, perhaps a scooter could do it) can stop virtually instantly, something else must become a pivot point. The weak link in the assembly is usually the press fit between the outer race of the seized bearing and whatever it is mounted to (the wheel in our case). The force holding that race in place is much, much less than the force binding the axle together. The next failure point after that, assuming the outer bearing race does not break away and spin, is the axle itself which would most likely simply break.

What appears to have happened on your bike is that the right side axle bearing failed (most likely due to contamination and corrosion due to the seal failing), seized and the axle rotated inside the right hand swingarm. As someone else said, perhaps there was a burr or some type of obstruction on the axle when it was assembled and that caused the axle nut to tighten without actually bringing much, if any, tension to the axle itself. Whatever the underlying reason, I believe that failure is not possible given the materials used and the force produced on a tightened axle.

Funny coincidence but the seal on the right hand side of my C-14's rear axle has failed and needs to be replaced. I have the new one but have not yet yanked the rear wheel off the bike to replace it. I will take a photo or two of mine while it is apart so what everyone can see what a seal failure looks like because they really do not look obviously bad.

Of course that is only my opinion and I do not think there is really any way to know what happened in your particular case. And again, no offense meant but I can understand why you would be upset with my previous post. At any rate, glad to see that you did not go down when the mishap did occur and that the bike could be repaired within reasonable cost.

And by the way- nice job cutting the axle out of that bike with the saw / drill / chiseling. It takes a fair amount of skill to wield rough tools like those used in such tight quarters without nicking (or outright crushing) something other than what you were trying to remove.

Brian



Conoscete voi  come è fatto l'insieme ruota per girare ??? credo proprio di no , asse ,copri asse,cuscinetti,dado!!!, Smontate da voi il  C 14 !!!,vi mostrerò con video clip l'insieme
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Con dado non stretto non avrei avuto tutto quel disastro,ripeto la causa sta per come è
l'insieme ruota,pernio,copri pernio,cuscinetti.
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Offline MGvaleri

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #131 on: December 22, 2012, 02:10:54 am »
Brian  ;) guarda con attenzione questa foto,spero tu riesca a vederci ciò che io per iscritto non potrei far capire,il tetra lever ha il suo tallone di ACHILLE quando il cuscinetto DX come nel mio caso fallisse.
Con dado ben stretto e con il fallimento del cuscinetto abbiamo un leggero spostamento del pernio che mette in crisi il distanziale spingendolo sul cuscinetto non più a 360°,è così che avviene la frenatura al momento della rottura del cuscinetto ,il distanziale che è in  lega  dall'  alluminio  è facile per attrito a degradarsi  e diventare un collante,così dopo la rottura del cuscinetto   avverrà   il rotolamento del pernio,che avrà fine quando si sarà ristabilito un gioco fra pernio cuscinetto e sede d'appoggio .

Quindi consiglierei a Kawasaki di non fornire il distanziale in alluminio,per ruota anteriore non problema per la fattura di tale organi.




MGvalerio. 8)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #132 on: December 22, 2012, 06:46:29 pm »
I gave it a shot but Google translator seems to be worth exactly what I paid for it in translating Italian (nothing). I just cannot follow the meaning of your post. ??? 

Best of luck with the bike after you get it back together.

Brian

Brian  ;) guarda con attenzione questa foto,spero tu riesca a vederci ciò che io per iscritto non potrei far capire,il tetra lever ha il suo tallone di ACHILLE quando il cuscinetto DX come nel mio caso fallisse.
Con dado ben stretto e con il fallimento del cuscinetto abbiamo un leggero spostamento del pernio che mette in crisi il distanziale spingendolo sul cuscinetto non più a 360°,è così che avviene la frenatura al momento della rottura del cuscinetto ,il distanziale che è in  lega  dall'  alluminio  è facile per attrito a degradarsi  e diventare un collante,così dopo la rottura del cuscinetto   avverrà   il rotolamento del pernio,che avrà fine quando si sarà ristabilito un gioco fra pernio cuscinetto e sede d'appoggio .

Quindi consiglierei a Kawasaki di non fornire il distanziale in alluminio,per ruota anteriore non problema per la fattura di tale organi.

<snipped image in Italian>


MGvalerio. 8)
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Offline McJunkie

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #133 on: December 22, 2012, 11:19:45 pm »
I gave it a shot but Google translator seems to be worth exactly what I paid for it in translating Italian (nothing). I just cannot follow the meaning of your post. ??? 

Best of luck with the bike after you get it back together.

Brian

This should clear it up..  ;)

Brian looks carefully) this picture, I hope you can see what I write I couldn't understand, tetra lever has its Achilles ' heel when the RIGHT bearing as in my case fails. With nut tight and with the failure of the bearing have a slight displacement of the stem that connects the crisis pushing bearing spacer is no longer at 360°, so that braking takes place at the time of the rupture of the bearing, the spacer that is aluminium alloy friction is easy to deteriorate and become a glue, so after the break will be rolling bearing of stemthat will end when you restored a game between stem and seat cushion.  So I would recommend not to provide Kawasaki the aluminium spacer for front wheel does not issue an invoice for such organs.

Offline ugocon

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Re: How many was that?? Rear wheel bearing failure.
« Reply #134 on: December 23, 2012, 02:24:22 am »
McJunkie: you're great!  :D
I understood in English what I honestly couldn't understand in Italian, also because I don't know much about the mechanics of the rear wheel ;)

The only thing I think it's not correct in your translation is the very last part:
"Quindi consiglierei a Kawasaki di non fornire il distanziale in alluminio,per ruota anteriore non problema per la fattura di tale organi."

It goes like this:
"Thus I would recommend Kawasaki not to provide/install the aluminum spacer. The problem does not exist for the front wheel due to the (different) way the front mechanism it's manufactured"


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