Author Topic: having problems with Concours  (Read 7981 times)

Offline BobVilla

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having problems with Concours
« on: April 09, 2013, 12:16:36 PM »
Hello all,

Bought a 2004 concours1000 in December.  It had just under 14K miles on it.  Now at about 20K.  Have been getting bad gas mileage only about 20 to 30 miles per gallon.  Gas gauge not working properly shows full and after a quarter of a tank is used needle goes straight to E so have to judge by miles traveled. Friday night heading home stopped at a light and she died.  Primed, switched to reserve and went to gas station to fill up. She started at gas station, had to hold throttle open but she did start. Idled rough, got her the rest of the way home, about 3 block then she died coming into the garage.  Tried it next day she started with throttle or choke, but idles rough and died as soon as throttle is let off. Today, she started with choke and throttle was able to take a her a few blocks idled rough, rpms around 500 or under when idling, but did not die. Some white smoke came out of the exhaust when took her out, but dissipated.  The shop here cannot take her until later in the week. Any ideas on what we might be looking at as far as the problem?

Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 12:46:39 PM »
Carbs are are needing attention.  Besides a good cleaning, the float levels might be off too.  The white smoke is probably excess gas in the pipes burning off.  Idle speed should be about 1100.  If you are somewhat machanically inclined, you might want to send your carbs to SISF to have him rebuild them.  Its about a 1 week turn around.  The price is great and the craftsmanship is supurb.  He is on the forum here somewhere.  Your lacal shop (anybody's) are kind of loosing touch on how to rebuild carbs nowadays.  Not to mention the fee they will charge you for a so so job.

You might also be geeting a stuck float needle that is getting ready to play havoc on your engine and produce a result called "Hydrolock".  Not good, it will bend a rod.  A bad petcock also has to exist for this to happens.  But, a stuck float needle or grit on the float valve seat will kill gas mileage and performance.
“I can truly say I had rather be at home at Mount Vernon with a friend or two about me, than to be attended at the seat of government by the officers of State and the representatives of every power of Europe.” - George Washington

Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 12:48:13 PM »
“I can truly say I had rather be at home at Mount Vernon with a friend or two about me, than to be attended at the seat of government by the officers of State and the representatives of every power of Europe.” - George Washington

Offline BobVilla

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 01:22:53 PM »
Thank you for your response and info. I will have to get the carbs done. Now with this I'm assuming I will need to get a new petcock and float needle. How do you check the float needle? Is that something that can be done myself of is it something that is in the carb? I do have the service book for the bike and am decent at mechanical work. Just don't want to create more of a problem if I can avoid it.

Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 01:46:01 PM »
Use the search tool to find all kinds of how-tos and advice on this site.  There is a wealth of good sound advice and instructions.  A night or two of reading is well worth it.

Most of the time the carbs can be "rebuilt" without buying any parts.  Really what you are doing is cleaning everything surgically clean (each and every passage), reassembling, and setting tolerances.  Becareful with the vacuum slides they are pricey if damaged.  Do not soak them in cleaner other than just a quick clean and dry.  Use fishing line or similar in the passages, not metal wire.

Look up the "float height or level" with search and you should find it.  It takes a little practice but is the only way to set the correct float height.

Keep in mind you have 4 carbs, if you're not comfortable with this, look up Steve (SISF).  Oh yeah, Steve's got a "real" jet kit that works also for added preformance.

Removing the carbs and reinserting them is a physical challenge.  The 4 carb to air box boots become hard plastic and like to fight with you as they age.  This is probaly the hardest part of doing this job.  Everything else is just working at your own pace.  Murph carries new boots if needed.

It sounds like the petcock is holding.  They are however, rebuildable or replaceable.  I have always rebuilt mine on various bikes, and never bought new.  Others have had issues and replaced it with a new one.  Totally your choice according to skill level.  If you do take it apart stretch the spring so it is about and inch long again for added pressure on the diaphram.

If you need parts (and just about anything else), check Murph out, He's the best and quick shipments too:

http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/

P.S. - Since you are new to this bike.  NEVER try to remove the gas tank without first removing the 2 painted side panels (by your knees) or you WILL scracth them up real bad.
“I can truly say I had rather be at home at Mount Vernon with a friend or two about me, than to be attended at the seat of government by the officers of State and the representatives of every power of Europe.” - George Washington

Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 01:49:36 PM »
Oops.  Yes, the float needles are in the carb.  They, along with the float control the fuel level in the carb bowl.  Pretty much the same function a toilet control valve does.  Fuel level drops, needle drops, fuel comes in.  Fuel level full, needle closes inlet, no fuel comes in.  If it can seal on the seat, fuel continues to come in when it shouldn't.  This is perhaps part of your problem
“I can truly say I had rather be at home at Mount Vernon with a friend or two about me, than to be attended at the seat of government by the officers of State and the representatives of every power of Europe.” - George Washington

Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 01:55:28 PM »
Before you get too far I should have questioned the gas in the tank.  If it is old, it should be dumped, filled with fresh, and add a very healthy dose of Seafoam to it, and then ride it out to see if it improves the performance.  Make sure you set the idle at 1100-ish not 500.  1100 is the normal speed.

This should be the first thing done.

Thinking of MOB before he reminds me not to send you on a wild goose chase when it could be simple!   :doh:
“I can truly say I had rather be at home at Mount Vernon with a friend or two about me, than to be attended at the seat of government by the officers of State and the representatives of every power of Europe.” - George Washington

Offline Two Skies

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 02:03:06 PM »
While I agree with all that has been said (rebuild the carbs, and while you are at it have Steve install some overflow tubes r.e. hydrolock as a suggestion), a couple of quick things you can try.

1) Drain the float bowls.  You should be able to access the carb bowl drain screws from both sides of the bike.  Get a length of surgical/aquarium tubing, attach to the nipple at the bottom of the carb bowl, and open the carb drain up.  I'd drain all four, then set the petcock to prime (to refill the bowls) and start the bike.  The last time I did this, I drained each bowl a second time with the petcock set to prime, so that the fuel could flush over the needle and seat, this seemed to help, and my rough running issues and fuel smell went away.  Remember to turn the petcock off (not in the prime position) after you flush each bowl, to avoid a potential hydrolock situation (if one of the needles doesn't seat correctly/still has debris in it).

If you drain into a large cup or bucket, you should see the debris as it drains out, so you can make an assessment as to whether you did any good or not.  Once you are done, a quick spin around the block should tell you if this helped.

Again, this doesn't always work, but if you have some grit stuck in the needle and seat, this might help.

2) You can try Seafoam and see if this helps.  About half a can per full tank of gas is what I've used.  Add to your tank when filling up, and then drive around for an hour or so and see if this helps.  Also, if you let the bike sit overnight after your little drive, this will let the Seafoam work on some of the deposits, again take her for a spin in the morning/next day and see if things have improved.

The above two might help a lot, or not much at all.  But if you aren't looking forward to yanking the carbs yourself, it cant hurt to try these first.  Judging by your MPG figures, however, I'm thinking you'll feel better with a carb rebuild.


On to your second issue, the 'inaccurate' fuel guage.  Most (if not all) Connies ship with this problem.  In my case, I use about 4 gallons between a full tank and the Red 'E' mark, and once the guage hits the left side of the red wedge on E, I've gone through about 5 gallons.  This varies from bike to bike.

Anyways, there are a couple of fixes.  Some bend the gas guage float arm to get it to read a little more accurately, others insert a resistor into the fuel guage wiring (where you unplug it from the tank to remove the tank), which often seems to fix it pretty well, with the right resistor of course.  Do a forum search on this issue for the particulars.
2006 w/50,000+ miles and a few bruises.

MCL Fork Brace & Handlebar Risers.  Bergmen Quick Release Tank Kit, Pilot GT Front/Avon Venom Rear tire.  Trunk w/spoiler.  NGK DR8EIX plugs.  Piece of foam in airbox.  Beads on seat.  Bafflectomized.  Murphs Kneesavers & Fuse Block.  Cee Bailey Winscreen w/vent.  Heated grips.  'Custom' mirrors.

Offline jim_de_hunter

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 02:58:43 PM »
Check the air filter yet?

I don't know how but both my Nighthawk and Concours air filters will get saturated with fuel.  When mileage drops, I know's it's time to pull and clean the K&N.   Happened so often on the Nighthawk I traded it for the Blue Monster.   Happened once to the Blue Monster, right after a service.


2006 ZG1000 "The Blue Monster"

Offline BobVilla

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 03:15:55 PM »
Thank you very much for the further information. I will just have Steve check all this when I ask him to do the carb re-build / clean. I did see on another forum site for the fuel gauge and my bike is right on with yours as far as gallons and gauge reading. I will have to investigate a little what size resistor to get. Thank you again for all the information and help.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: having problems with Concours
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 03:34:40 PM »
This will fix the gas gauge being so far off.



http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=955.msg8838#msg8838
'94 Concours 112,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,Torque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators,etc