Linked Brakes Fixed

[Gixerhp]

Yes, I installed the custom line splitting the left front brake line out of the ABS block and blocked the right front line out of ABS. I reinstalled the rear brake line as per normal setup. I've been testing it to make sure all is functioning normally and so far it seems right. I have ABS in the rear and I have ABS in the front. The problem that existed before which was when you were applying front brake and were to just touch the rear making it all of a sudden grab more front brake is gone. I can still feel that the rear brake pedal is effected by the front, but it isn't noticeably changing the braking characteristics other than the rear pedal feels a little stiffer when holding the front.

Overall I'm pretty sure I like the fix because I have ABS in both wheels now. With my other fix I liked the feel of the front lever and rear pedal better, but didn't have ABS in the rear. I just have to make up my mind as to which way I will stay with.

The parts were obtained from Galfer and are a t-fitting and two lines at 16cm and 20cm. I would shorten the 16cm to probably 15cm(that's the one on the left in photo) because it seemed a little long. Attached is my order sheet also.

So this totally removes the linked brakes at this point. I have read through this post. I wish the was a way just to swap out the ABS pump with a more simple one. Most sport bike's with ABS just have a front input and output as well the same on the rear !
This linked crap sucks....

[Freddy]

What are you waiting for?  Do the mod then.  What ABS pump do you suggest would do the job and be as cheap and effective as this hose & fittings mod?

[Gabriel]

I like the idea of removing the right front brake line and capping it at the junction under the tank and installing a hose that goes from the left front caliper to the right front caliper like was used on the 08/09 ABS models..

[connie_rider]

Take my word on this.   Don't do any wrenching.
On this bike, Train your brain/reflexes to use front brake only.
The Linked brakes work great to apply some rear brake.
               Problem solved!

Ride safe, Ted

PS: By doing this, you can still stab the rear as a last effort in "an emergency"..
          ("Might" add a little more braking). 

[MAN OF BLUES]

Take my word on this.   Don't do any wrenching.
On this bike, Train your brain/reflexes to use front brake only.
The Linked brakes work great to apply some rear brake.
               Problem solved!

Ride safe, Ted

PS: By doing this, you can still stab the rear as a last effort in "an emergency"..
          ("Might" add a little more braking).

mah

everyone is smarter than you, and I....

have at it...


disconnect everything, make it like my 1978 KZ 1000nLtd, and .....

just get on with it....come'on jut get it on......


mmmmm

[Gixerhp]

Well im finally installing my Galfer braided kit as well as By passing the linked portion. After reading and following these pages. I have found easy way of doing this,, Many pics will be coming soon!
   

[Freddy]

We hope so, but you said that 7 months ago on the Cog forum.      

[MAN OF BLUES]

 

JUST KIDDING...

[Boomer]

Take my word on this.   Don't do any wrenching.
On this bike, Train your brain/reflexes to use front brake only.
The Linked brakes work great to apply some rear brake.
               Problem solved!

Ride safe, Ted

PS: By doing this, you can still stab the rear as a last effort in "an emergency"..
          ("Might" add a little more braking).

Ted, for me disabling the linked brakes would be to enable me to apply some rear brake without having the nanny apply some front brake for me.
I already do almost all of my braking with the front, but when I need the rear brake ONLY is when leaned over, partway through a corner, and not to slow down but to change the line through the corner. I've ridden later C14s and while it's not as intrusive as the early Honda systems, it still leaves me feeling not fully in control. I do NOT want to disable the rear or front ABS, just the link between them.
It's pretty much the only reason why I still have my 08 model as I would love TCS and heated grips and Eco Mode and all the other stuff.

[Michelle]

It's pretty much the only reason why I still have my 08 model as I would love TCS and heated grips and Eco Mode and all the other stuff.

You want an 08 like this one 



It had linked brakes for six months and I just couldn't come to terms with it. I also had one of the early Hondas with linked brakes and within 24 hours it was lying on its side with my leg under it, because I tried to use the rear to drag it around a U turn - so that didn't endear them right from the start.

My GTR has the original 08 brake pipe along the right hand side and across to the left caliper. The 2010 ABS pump has the active line on the left, so I took the rubber hose from that port and connected it to the right side pipe. Then I removed the steel line from the left side of the bike (after I'd spent days modifying the underside of the glove box to get it in there    ) and capped the remaining rubber hose at the first joint under the tank. ABS works perfectly and the brakes are only linked front to rear.
We also own a 2011 FJR1300 and I didn't even know it had linked brakes!

[Daytona_Mike]

... I need the rear brake ONLY is when leaned over, partway through a corner, and not to slow down but to change the line through the corner....

How does that change the line?
Does anyone else use the rear brake ONLY when leaning in a  turn   on a non ABS street bike?
Anyone?

[Freddy]

Q1. Using the rear brake alone in a corner causes the bike to 'fall' into the corner because the drag is behind the centre the bike.  This assists in cornering.  Using the front brake in a corner, as in this particular linked system that folks complain about, the drag is at the front of the bike, causing it to 'stand up a little more vertical' and therefore going off line or wider in the corner.   If you haven't experienced it, it can be difficult to comprehend.  If you have experienced it, it is most disconcerting.  It's also the reason that Kaw, in their wisdom, reduced the 'link' from 2015 on, making it much more compliant in corners - they made a mistake in 2010 and corrected it 5 years later.

Q2.  Does anyone else use the rear brake ONLY when leaning in a  turn   on a non ABS street bike?  Should read (for clarity  ): Does anyone else use ONLY the rear brake when leaning in a  turn on a non ABS street bike?  Yes, me.  ABS or non-ABS doesn't come into it - it's the link rear-to-front that's the issue.   

[Daytona_Mike]

Q1. Using the rear brake alone in a corner causes the bike to 'fall' into the corner because the drag is behind the centre the bike.  This assists in cornering.  Using the front brake in a corner, as in this particular linked system that folks complain about, the drag is at the front of the bike, causing it to 'stand up a little more vertical' and therefore going off line or wider in the corner.   If you haven't experienced it, it can be difficult to comprehend.  If you have experienced it, it is most disconcerting.  It's also the reason that Kaw, in their wisdom, reduced the 'link' from 2015 on, making it much more compliant in corners - they made a mistake in 2010 and corrected it 5 years later.

Q2.  Does anyone else use the rear brake ONLY when leaning in a  turn   on a non ABS street bike?  Should read (for clarity  ): Does anyone else use ONLY the rear brake when leaning in a  turn on a non ABS street bike?  Yes, me.  ABS or non-ABS doesn't come into it - it's the link rear-to-front that's the issue.   

 There are No linked brakes on a C10. I was directing the question to Boomer who rides a C10 but it is  perfectly fine  for you  to answer.

Any one else use the rear brake in mid corner?
 
  Personally I never touch the rear brake.. on the street or on the track.. unless I am on wet grass or  sand or under 5mph in a parking lot or I am riding my dirt bikes..
If I want to use the rear wheel to slow me down or change the line I use the slipper clutch.

[maxtog]

>"Personally I never touch the rear brake.. "

I will admit (as I have before on the forums) that I never use the rear brake, ever (either).  But I am not an expert bike driver, either.  I understand there are some times when using only the rear can be useful, especially for very hot cornering.  But for me, that would be very rare and doesn't outweigh the danger of over-applying the rear.

Ironically, the main "feature" of linked brakes is to try to save those people who don't use enough FRONT brake, which (for some reason) seems to be far more common out there (especially for emergency stopping).  As I have said before, many times, the ONLY problem I have with linked brakes is that Kawasaki provided no "off" (along with the high and low settings) for those who don't want it.  I don't like companies deciding such things for everyone, even if it doesn't directly affect me.

[Michelle]

I use the rear brake because that's how I was trained. Having a bike that tries to do it's own thing is not ideal. I maybe could have got used to it if it was predictable, but the amount of interference depends on how much brake you have already applied and at what speed. The first time it did it I was canyon carving and too hot into a corner* so a little rear brake was more desirable than squeezing the front harder. It made that horrible kicking sensation through the lever and the front dived. Even though I knew what it was it was enough to pinch a button in the middle of the seat. I tried for six months to learn to like it, but it was like my first automatic car - I used to shout at it a lot because I didn't want to change gear just then.

* I was in test mode, having just finished putting the gen 2 electronics into my 08 and it was at this point I also realised that the gen 2 brakes were somewhat underwhelming. Removing the rear to front link means it will stop ever so slightly better than when it was a normal 08 and I don't use the rear pedal as much as I used to.

[Boomer]

How does that change the line?
Does anyone else use the rear brake ONLY when leaning in a  turn   on a non ABS street bike?
Anyone?

I ride a 1989 C10 AND a 2008 C14 (bought new in Aug 2007 and has 74k miles on her).
On both bikes (and on many more before them) I sometimes use the rear brake to stabilise/settle the rear on corner entry and to tighten the turn mid-corner. In both those circumstances I do NOT want ANY application of the front brake as that leads to low-sides. I have never had the rear break loose while doing this. The rear contact patch is way bigger than the front and can take the increase in lateral load.
I've ridden several linked brake bikes and they all feel like someone else is controlling the brakes.
If you like it, good for you. Me, I hate linked brakes on my motorcycles.

This has NOTHING to do with ABS which is a different thing entirely.
ABS is a great safety feature that I would love to fit to my C10, but am unlikely to do given the amount of work needed.

[PH14]

I ride a 1989 C10 AND a 2008 C14 (bought new in Aug 2007 and has 74k miles on her).
On both bikes (and on many more before them) I sometimes use the rear brake to stabilise/settle the rear on corner entry and to tighten the turn mid-corner. In both those circumstances I do NOT want ANY application of the front brake as that leads to low-sides. I have never had the rear break loose while doing this. The rear contact patch is way bigger than the front and can take the increase in lateral load.
I've ridden several linked brake bikes and they all feel like someone else is controlling the brakes.
If you like it, good for you. Me, I hate linked brakes on my motorcycles.

This has NOTHING to do with ABS which is a different thing entirely.
ABS is a great safety feature that I would love to fit to my C10, but am unlikely to do given the amount of work needed.

Yep, and even Kawasaki touted the non-linked brakes on the Gen 1 models for true sport riding. They had to leave that out of their marketing material after linking the brakes.

I had linked brakes on a Goldwing, though I preferred to not have linked brakes, on the Wing, for its purpose, it wasn't a big issue, for the C14, I didn't, and don't want it. It is why I stick with my 2009, and will probably not buy another C14 when the time comes.

[Gixerhp]

Thanks

3/8 UNC bolt, nylock nut washers & thread tape used to blank off the right linked hose which is tied to the reflector bracket above.  The bolt shown is a tad longer than the one I used.


EDIT: I've not been 100% happy with the method I used to block the displaced hose.  Having given more thought to it and scratching about in my tub of left-over bit from other jobs I came up with this short hose fitted with a 10x1mm plug.  The hose is from a 1400 ABS unit.  In stock form it joins the long steel pipes that run under the tank to the ABS unit - but it's a spare from a wrecked bike.  This short hose with plug will replace the displaced hose which presently runs to the right caliper.  It's necessary to lift the fuel tank to access the front end of the steel pipe to fit the 'block-off' hose. This update gives certainty that no leak will ever develop.  Of the 2 bikes I personally did the 'bolt & tape' block-off to, neither have developed any seepage whatsoever after more than 2 years with that somewhat primitive 'fix.'

As for Bleeding the ended line, you use the plug basically as the bleeder. Here a a few pics of how it did it using a complete Galfer braided line kit, and adapters at the ABS pump

[Gixerhp]

And my ended line

[Freddy]

Good work Gixer.    There was a report earlier in this thread iirc, that plugging the ABS port without the short hose attached created a fault code.  Hoping yours is ok.  Another member used plug-in-end-of-hose as I depicted and found it ok.