Author Topic: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.  (Read 100887 times)

Offline Throttle 8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Country: ca
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2016, 03:48:37 pm »
Thanks Brian. Sounds good. I will leaving on June 16th to make the ralley on the 20th. It is 1850km, which should be only 2 days ride; but I plan on doing some good roads on the way there (Blue Ridge Parkway being one). I will send you a pm before I go and see if you will be home on my way down or back.

Dave
2014 C14
2000 ZX12R Ninja

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2016, 04:25:37 pm »
I am sure we can make that work.

I did not realize you were going to the rally- I am sure I can send in advance to quite a few people who will hand-deliver it to you at the rally, or directly to you care / of the hotel. Whatever works best for you. But of course if you do stop by I an introduce you to both Mr. Elkhoof as well as Kirby and those are not treats to be missed IMO. :-)

Brian

Thanks Brian. Sounds good. I will leaving on June 16th to make the ralley on the 20th. It is 1850km, which should be only 2 days ride; but I plan on doing some good roads on the way there (Blue Ridge Parkway being one). I will send you a pm before I go and see if you will be home on my way down or back.

Dave
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Throttle 8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Country: ca
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #137 on: February 11, 2016, 06:57:27 pm »
I am sure we can make that work.

I did not realize you were going to the rally- I am sure I can send in advance to quite a few people who will hand-deliver it to you at the rally, or directly to you care / of the hotel. Whatever works best for you. But of course if you do stop by I an introduce you to both Mr. Elkhoof as well as Kirby and those are not treats to be missed IMO. :-)

Brian

LOL! Looking forward to it! :chugbeer:
2014 C14
2000 ZX12R Ninja

Offline R1Brian

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Hey Brian.. wow, I am Brian too  8)    I just ordered one off the website.   Excited to give it a try


Thanks,
Brian W

Offline spinned

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: 00
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2016, 02:33:59 pm »
I really like the product... But I ran out of gas with 25 miles still showing.   That doesn't change the fact that I still really like the product.

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10777
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #140 on: September 04, 2016, 03:13:53 pm »
I've never ran out of gas with it....
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2016 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home.

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #141 on: September 06, 2016, 01:26:46 pm »
I ran out with 8 miles showing in range. But I discussed this with Brian and we think the problem was that I shut the bike off with less gas than could be registered on the sensor. Then when I start it up again, now it really doesn't have a clue how much gas is left. Therefor the theory is that if you ride it continuously down as it approaches zero it will be more accurate than riding it until very low and shut off. I don't know if Brian was ever able to verify that.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #142 on: September 09, 2016, 05:49:42 pm »
Just saw this thread and certainly want to comment, perhaps clarify some things. Sorry to anyone who has been bitten by the range remaining estimator although anything less than 10 miles, or even 15 miles, as per the instructions, is very risky anyway. That said, the range remaining indicator (estimator, not an exact measurement) is far more accurate than running out of fuel while showing 25 miles remaining.... unless the bike is being or very recently been used in stop- and- go traffic (full stops with a lot of accelerating and shifting).

The range function works best when an entire tank of fuel is used at steady speeds and loads, and especially highway speeds; this is exactly why I conjured it up in the first place- riding long distances on the highway and wondering if I had 15 or 45 miles of fuel left- that makes a BIG difference in Wyomigtannadaho at 2:00 AM as there are a  LOT of miles between fuel stations.

The range indicator basically takes what it has calculated is left in the tank for fuel and uses the instantaneous fuel consumption (the fuel economy reading in Miles Per Gallon or metric equivalent) to calculate the range left. That works well on the highway at steady speeds but not so well in stop- and- go riding. For example: let's say there is 1/2 gallon of fuel left in the tank. From a stop, you accelerate in first gear: the range calculator sees that you are currently getting 10 miles per gallon (remember, in first gear and accelerating: the mileage would be awful) and shows a range remaining of 5 miles. Then you close the throttle and pull in the clutch to shift to second and at that exact moment, the fuel consumption estimator would hit the upper 'hard limit' of 70 MPH (hey, closed throttle and doing, say, 15 MPH so the fuel economy would be phenomenal) and the range indicator would show 35 miles remaining (1/2 gallon at 70 miles to the gallon). Which reading should you believe..... neither one, they are both wrong and by a pretty large amount. The way to use the range remaining indicator under these circumstances is to do two things: 1) bring the bike up to a steady speed in the gear you would use at that speed and let the bike stabilize, neither accelerating or decelerating (and not going uphill (more load) or downhill (less load). Then the range remaining reading should stay pretty stable but always glance down at least three times to make sure it IS stable and not bouncing around. Once you have done that 2) do not trust the range remaining indicator below about 10 or better yet, 15 miles given the stop- and- go nature of the riding.

I am not aware of the circumstances that caused the bike to run out of fuel with 25 miles remaining but I would think it could be attributed to a few things: the first is glancing at an unstable set of readings (stop- and- go riding) at a particularly high (and very wrong) estimation, or radically changing the way the bike was ridden, especially toward the end of the tank of fuel; for example, riding for 250 miles on the highway and then a lot of stop- and- go riding to bias the calculation of the range remaining.

Kawasaki choose an extremely conservative way to give the rider tools for managing mileage: at approx. 50 miles remaining, they flash a pretty impressive warning, withhold the range remaining indicator (and instead threaten the rider with a dire warning) and basically leave the rider on his / her own. By overriding that warning and restoring the range remaining reading (remember, and estimate always), the low fuel warning eliminator gives the rider of a C-14 much better information and control, at least IMO, but at the same times, transfers some responsibility onto the rider to manage his / her own fuel.

And just to state some facts, my hardware takes no part in the computation or display of range remaining; that is all up to Kawasaki's ECU. My device merely interrupts the warning itself; it is beyond my humble abilities to tinker with the inner workins' of the ECU and certainly not with a plug 'n play piece of hardware; to tinker with the actual calculations, I would have to alter the code in the dash display computer which, of course, I do not have access to when I sell a Low fuel warning eliminator.

As always, I would be happy to discuss this further with anyone (or everyone), either publicly on this forum or privately via e-mail, whichever way a customer or potential customer chooses (gee, I guess that would be the whole world, right?......  ;D )

Brian

I really like the product... But I ran out of gas with 25 miles still showing.   That doesn't change the fact that I still really like the product.

I ran out with 8 miles showing in range. But I discussed this with Brian and we think the problem was that I shut the bike off with less gas than could be registered on the sensor. Then when I start it up again, now it really doesn't have a clue how much gas is left. Therefor the theory is that if you ride it continuously down as it approaches zero it will be more accurate than riding it until very low and shut off. I don't know if Brian was ever able to verify that.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5554
  • Country: us
  • MMVIII C XIV
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #143 on: September 09, 2016, 06:13:13 pm »
Brian, how much will a piggy back fuel controller screw with the mileage calcs?
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #144 on: September 10, 2016, 06:06:19 am »
I do not know Gary but it is a good point- something like a Power Commander makes all its changes after the ECU so the ECU would not 'know' the actual the amount of fuel being used was changed.

I think the initial thought would be that it would use more fuel and that would always cause the range display to read 'long' or to show more range than actual but my own PC III map is all over the place and actually has negative numbers in a lot of cells, meaning the actual fuel delivery is less than the ECU calculated.

Overall, the range indicator has been pretty accurate on my own bike, which is wearing a PC III and has had the 'flies' removed. But that is just one bike and an anecdotal story at best; I have no idea how it will work out on average.

Brian

Brian, how much will a piggy back fuel controller screw with the mileage calcs?
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline J.R.

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: us
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2016, 01:35:00 pm »
Brian, are these still available?
Jim
2016 C14 "Kristi"

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #146 on: September 23, 2016, 11:01:49 am »
Just saw this- sorry, I do not get to the forum as much as I did before.

Yes, they are available and I have some in stock. Available (in the US) through my website, Incontrolne.com. Available most anywhere by contacting me.

Thanks for the interest.

Brian

Brian, are these still available?
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline J.R.

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: us
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #147 on: September 27, 2016, 01:06:09 am »
Just saw this- sorry, I do not get to the forum as much as I did before.

Yes, they are available and I have some in stock. Available (in the US) through my website, Incontrolne.com. Available most anywhere by contacting me.

Thanks for the interest.

Brian

Cool, I'll order one from the website. Thanks!
Jim
2016 C14 "Kristi"

Offline robval1987

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: us
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #148 on: October 04, 2016, 03:25:09 pm »
Hey Brian, I ordered one of your low fuel delete warning and was wondering if you received my order? I have sent 2 additional emails to your website and have not got a reply, should I reorder it here on this forum? I look forward to installing it and getting rid of that annoying low fuel warning and fuel pump icon. Let me know, Thanks Robert
Retired U.S. Army, Retired Law Enforcement Officer
"Don't ride faster then your Guardian Angel can fly."

Offline robval1987

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: us
Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #149 on: October 05, 2016, 06:08:44 am »
This tracking number 9400109699939296272983 has the item going to Merigold Mississippi and sent to a P.O box and it arrived on 1 Oct 2016, I live in Lawton Oklahoma I ordered my low fuel device on 3 October 2016 and used my PayPal account which has already showed a credit toward your Company. I appreciate any help from you in getting this resolved. Thanks again Robert Green (aka robval1987@yahoo.com) or (robval1987 on kawasaki Concours forum).
I tried to PM you but I got blocked from sending you a message.
Retired U.S. Army, Retired Law Enforcement Officer
"Don't ride faster then your Guardian Angel can fly."