Author Topic: MAP Sharing  (Read 9980 times)

Offline Rembrant

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2014, 04:47:52 am »
Great stuff RandyN, thanks so much for sharing.

I have a clean and shiny set of ZX14 TB's sitting on the bench waiting to be installed....just waiting for stupid winter to be over, and for my Area-P system to arrive (that I ordered last year...lol). Anyway, patience is a virtue they say;).

I just mentioned this in another thread, but just so you know, the C14 ECU uses two fuel maps. From 0-10% (approx.) the ECU uses an IAP (Idle Air Pressure) map, and from 10-100% the ECU uses the regular TPS fuel map. There isn't a fixed cut off at 10% throttle position...but it will usually be close to that. The throttle body assembly has a MAP sensor that is supplying feedback to the ECU, which the ECU compares with current atmospheric pressure. So, at small throttle openings, there is a differential pressure that the ECU is monitoring. Once the throttle opens past a certain point, there ceases to be any pressure differential, and the ECU switches to the TPS based fuel table map. The point at which the ECU likely changes per the outside conditions...maybe 8% some days, maybe 11% on others, etc.

This may be why you guys are seeing some abruptness or off-idle issues with the ZX14 TB's. The PC5 would be trying to correct a moving target between 0-10% throttle position. Once the ECU settles on the TPS fuel map, the PC5 is golden. I still think the PC5 is the best option for the guys that like to tune their bikes.

Once this hateful winter settles down a bit here, I will be getting out and doing some tuning myself and will get back to you guys with some tuned PC5 maps, and later, a tuned ECU map should anybody want to try it.

Thanks again for sharing your PC5 map and thoughts. A tip of the ball cap to you.

Cheers,
Rem ;)


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Offline firehawk618

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2014, 02:22:25 pm »
Subscribing.

Thanks SOP for pointing me at this map thread.

I also have a set of ZX14's waiting to go on.  I am waiting until after the 4 day road trip I'm taking after the 4th of July.

Already got the PCV on but am waiting on the auto tune. 

Going to go with ZX14 full dual setup.
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Offline Widdee

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2014, 07:03:28 am »
Not being a technical bod with the tuning side of things but wont maps be unique to each setup?
I have a 2008 to which i added 2008 ZX14 headers (cat in), two brothers racing carbon dual pipes, K&N filter, flies out and PCV fitted.  If this is of interest i can post my map. I have also fitted a switch to select map 2 on the fly to which i simply reduced fuel inputs by 10% for a certain rev range, throttle position. Works mint!
Heres my dyno print. My line is the blue line compared to a stock ZX 14 of same vintage (red)

Offline gPink

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2014, 07:17:27 am »
It's interesting that leaving the cat did not seem to affect your power numbers from what we've seen with the cat out.
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Son of Pappy

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2014, 11:37:20 am »
Not being a technical bod with the tuning side of things but wont maps be unique to each setup?
I have a 2008 to which i added 2008 ZX14 headers (cat in), two brothers racing carbon dual pipes, K&N filter, flies out and PCV fitted.  If this is of interest i can post my map. I have also fitted a switch to select map 2 on the fly to which i simply reduced fuel inputs by 10% for a certain rev range, throttle position. Works mint!
Heres my dyno print. My line is the blue line compared to a stock ZX 14 of same vintage (red)

Same 2kish flat line at peak power, still leaves me wondering if air intake is a limiting factor.  Anyone know what the difference in intakes is between the 2 "14s"?

Offline maxtog

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2014, 04:51:17 pm »
Same 2kish flat line at peak power, still leaves me wondering if air intake is a limiting factor.  Anyone know what the difference in intakes is between the 2 "14s"?

I am curious about that too... like with most things, improving one area will keep moving the choke/restriction point(s) further and further up the system.
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Offline Cold Streak

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2014, 01:03:33 pm »
Throttle body diameter went from 44 to 40 mm for the C14.

Offline Rembrant

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2014, 09:05:10 am »
Same 2kish flat line at peak power, still leaves me wondering if air intake is a limiting factor.  Anyone know what the difference in intakes is between the 2 "14s"?

Air intake would be a limiting factor I'm sure...but that's always going to be an issue with dyno tuning/results...at least with the majority of dynos anyway. A C14 that makes 165 HP on the dyno will likely make 170 HP on the road once it gets some air to breath at the higher speeds and RPM's. Kawasaki uses bike speed to correct the fuel for the ram air...which is negated in dyno tuning.

The air box, air filters, and intake stacks on the C14 and ZX14 are the same....but the intake duct(s) themselves are different. ZX14 has one center intake, while the C14 has 2 smaller left and rights. The major difference would be the inside diameters of the throttlebody and intake boots.

In any case, I bet that flat line is right where the big C14 benefits the most from a little bit of forced air. I'll try mine next time I'm out for a run...I bumped my RPM limiter up to 10,500 so I should be able to see how it 'feels' when (IF) it hits that same flat spot on the road;).

Rem :o
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Offline whatcom

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2014, 02:01:52 pm »
Great research Rembrandt! How did you bump up the RPM's?
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Offline Rembrant

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2014, 06:08:18 pm »
Great research Rembrandt! How did you bump up the RPM's?

I have the software for flashing the ECU and making map changes, etc. There is a section in the software for disabling the top speed limiter in the 2010-up models, as well as increasing (or decreasing) the rev limiter. Although the factory analog tach shows the redline at 10,500 RPM, it is actually set at 10,050 RPM in the ECU. This is why you will not see a C14 dyno chart past approx 10,000 RPM.

Rem 8)
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Offline Steve-UK

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2018, 04:37:41 pm »
Hi guys. Sorry to resurrect an old topic but I’m after some help.

I’ve got a 2011 standard filter and a Two Bros end can and I’m going to remove the flies. I’ve got some stuttering issues when running at low revs. I’ve just installed a PCV and am after a map if anyone can help.

Thanks all

Offline gPink

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2018, 06:34:44 pm »
1... leave the flies in, drop the PCV and have the ecu reflashed.

2... Pull the flies and add an Autotune with the PCV.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: MAP Sharing
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2018, 08:31:12 am »
Hi guys. Sorry to resurrect an old topic but I’m after some help.

I’ve got a 2011 standard filter and a Two Bros end can and I’m going to remove the flies. I’ve got some stuttering issues when running at low revs. I’ve just installed a PCV and am after a map if anyone can help.

Thanks all

  Rembrandt answered your issue ^. The PC5 can't correct for fueling that's not tps based. You're never going to get rid of that stuttering with a PC5. About the best I think you can do is set your maps to "0" up to about10% throttle.  HTH, Steve