Author Topic: Petcock kit install  (Read 16143 times)

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 04:55:03 pm »
Read my post Cholla. All of it. Especially near the end where I mention the C-14.
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2013, 05:49:13 pm »
I know, you said to not say they addressed it on the C14 but, hey, ya gotta face it-they did address it and chucked the design.
I axed many moons ago why they continue to use the same carbs.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2013, 06:15:54 pm »
Oh ok. Anyhow, are we the only group of folks experiencing hydrolock, because I never heard of it until I came here I guess is what I'm saying.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2013, 07:18:49 pm »
Strawboss.   You can thank the  US government for not wanting carburetors to vent fuel to the outside air.  Carburetors used to have overflow tubes to prevent this problem but the EPA said no. That is why the bowl castings still have bosses still there so it makes it easy for us to drill holes and add the tubes.

The problem is more frequent than those that post here with blown engines. Many owners have engines with  a bent connecting rod and do not know it. They may notice just a slight vibration and think it is normal. This is why we recommend doing a 'bent rod test' before buying any C10. Another so called ' fix' is to install a clutched starter that slips when it hits a heavy load such as a cylinder full of  fuel but that costs  significantly  more than over flow tubes.

Cholla.  It is not really  a flaw of the float needle seats. All it takes is a small or tiny bit of debris to cause a small float leak. We also dont notice that too often because it clears itself up while riding. Those of us who have over flow tubes  are aware right away when this happens and we just go for a spirited  occasional WOT ride and it clears up.

I should mention that I have had a lot of experience with problem  carbs early on. I had constant float needle issues due to very  tiny fine grains of sand getting into the carbs and landing in the bowls  due to the fact that I live next to the beach.(We have what is called Sugar Sand- it is extremely  fine). It was a big mystery as to why.  At one point I was sure I blew a hole in a piston because of the huge smoke cloud and it looked light blue. I even had a small sign on the handle bar that said "Tap the Starter lightly to make sure the engine is not locked"
 I tried every suggested method including: Inline filter(s), electric fuel shut of valve  and I even toyed with low pressure fuel pumps with filters.
Everything I tried induced other issues. It was not  until overflow tubes were suggested  (by Sunny Steve of course) and once I had those installed I was leaking fuel all over the place from all four carbs at different times. 
Turned out it was a split air box letting the sand in past the air filter.

Sorry for the long write up. I hope this helps.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2013, 07:49:33 pm »
Oh ok. Anyhow, are we the only group of folks experiencing hydrolock, because I never heard of it until I came here I guess is what I'm saying.

While I'm sure there's others, the ZRX guys are having trouble with hydrolock now. Common on their boards. Their engine layout is the same as ours. but they fortunately have a clutched starter gear that slips before bad stuff happens.

All - is hydrolock common? YES. If you watch my video on hydrolock, theres 3 engines represented there that hydro'ed. the first is the one the rod came from; the second is that 05 shortblock with the 2 bent rods; 3rd is the 01 that sprayed all over me. In the past year I've had an 87 in here with a bent rod, and an 86 with 2 bent rods. A couple years ago I swapped rods on an 03 that hydroe'd and locked up.

 roadhound rides day in, day out.  Changing the gas is probably the best thing for the bike's fuel system. the guys I know who ride everyday don't have many carb issues, but most motorcycles end up sitting because they're "pleasure craft" for most of us. And therein lies the problem. After having seen about  350 sets of carbs, I can tell you most bikes go through periods of inactivity, which doesn't do them any good.

 One more point - there's many many connies now fitted with overflow tubes, so those will be off the list for hydrolocks, unless something clogs the drain hose at the end(mud dauber?). As far as trash clogging the overflow tube in the carb? impossible. look at the height of the fuel valve, the depth of the bowl, and the height of the overflow tube. since large chunks of trash don't have legs to climb uphill, clogging the overflow tube itself just will not happen. .Steve

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2013, 07:59:43 pm »
While I'm sure there's others, the ZRX guys are having trouble with hydrolock now. Common on their boards. Their engine layout is the same as ours. but they fortunately have a clutched starter gear that slips before bad stuff happens. Steve

Steve, is the clutched starter something a Concours owner could fit to their engine?  Not going to run out and did it for hydro protection but it would be handy to know in the case of needing a replacement.
Tony P. Crochet
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2013, 08:06:32 pm »
OK, thanks, that wasn't long at all, explained a few things. I remember I had a 1981 Kawasaki 305, 20,000 miles that leaked out a tube coming from the carbs, over flow or bowl drains? Who knows. Never had hydrolock though. My 1982 KZ, 52,000 miles occasionally leaks in the spring with the warmer/colder days combinations, no hydrolock. Go figure. I got the manual petcock, I'm not going to worry. As Tony said, like work, I do certain things the same way every single time, every time when I start and stop the motor. Clutched starter, so they did think about it then.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2013, 08:07:54 pm »
Steve, is the clutched starter something a Concours owner could fit to their engine?  Not going to run out and did it for hydro protection but it would be handy to know in the case of needing a replacement.

T - it is, there's one in mine, but it requires the cases to be split and it's the very FIRST part to go in. Since I was building the 1109 engine I had a great opportunity to do that, but really, nobody else would, it just doesn't make sense. Steve

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2013, 08:30:55 pm »
T - it is, there's one in mine, but it requires the cases to be split and it's the very FIRST part to go in. Since I was building the 1109 engine I had a great opportunity to do that, but really, nobody else would, it just doesn't make sense. Steve

Got ya...
Tony P. Crochet
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Ask me about a set of Stick Coils & Harness or Precision Shift Linkage for your C10 Concours

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2013, 08:45:29 pm »
It is proven the auto petcock is unreliable. Hence the proliferation of rebuild kits and manual replacements.
Besides the real problem is the poor design of the float valves.


well well, well.. bravo.
the auto/vac petcock works well...its the carbs that reall mattered...
actually until the Conccours was produced, (ne it's predecessor the veritable Ninja), we who owned Kaw bikes dealt with MIKUNI CARBS.... SLIDE CARBS....
No Diaphragms..., STEEL FLOAT NEEDLES sitting on BRASS SEATS..... all the wayback to the 60's.....


the redsign of the format using VACUME ASSITED THROTTLE SLIDES FOR ACCELERATION was the down fall of the modern bike; this provoked the VACUME ACTIVATED FUEL VALVE... which while a good design if USED DAILY,  created problems on bikes stored for decades... (who would store a bike that long?...... about 50,000 people evidently..)

with the redesign came the polymer tipped needles, which when a piece of grit rested in the rubber/brass seal area, embededded into the rubber... holding off the seat, and allowing fuel flow...., this rarely happened with the MIC's, and if it did, they overflowed and dumped fuel on the ground....(a-la- the SISF mod...), this didn't solve the problem, but it sure as HELL made it evident there WAS a problem..... and NO HYDRO-loks occured as a result.




C14 Cannot Hydro.
I like that.
COGZILLA needs a rod Job...
I don't like That,


BIG bore time.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2013, 09:25:24 pm »
    Let's get real here. We're talking about bikes that are 10 to 20 yrs old or older. Petcocks and float valves don't last forever. You're buying bikes that have been sitting outdoors and in barns. Also with rusted tanks and ethanol gas. Blame Kawasaki?? This is a great bike with a hiccup that can kill! My petcock lasted 18 yrs and did NOT leak. Don't know about the float valves 'cause the petcock has to fail first and then the float valves. How long are they (float valves) suppose to last with a bunch of crap going through the carbs.
   Don't want to put in over flow tubes because you might get gas on the garage floor? If it doesn't end up on the garage floor the gas goes into the cyl. Hydrolock when you hit the starter!!
    If you have a better and fool proof way to prevent that, tell us about it.
    Yes TCro a manual petcock is great for the perfect people that shut them off EVERYTIME !! I'm not one of them!! :doh:  ;D ;D

   A man must know his limitations. 8)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 06:28:53 am by Mettler1 »
'94 Concours 112,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,Torque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators,etc

Offline Cholla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2013, 11:39:49 am »
Constant velocity carbs forced vacuum operated petcocks? That's a riot!
If thatvwas the case manual petcocks wouldn't work! And we know they do work.
I would rather have gas in the engine than gas all over the garage floor which ignites when you turn on the lights or the water heater lights it.
I have used Dell'orto carbs for 25 years and on bikes back to 1975 models. Never had problems with junk in the seats or the carbs flooding-and all have/had manual petcocks that may or may not be shut off.
And again it is a proven fact the vacuum operated petcocks are unreliable.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2013, 03:26:05 pm »
Auto petcocks are very reliable and much better than manual any day  and any time and that is a proven fact.  I already listed the reasons above. You need to read more.
Manuals fail too and people forget even more. This is why modern  carburated  bikes are all auto now and have been for a long long time.
 Leave a manual petcock on with a leaky float valve and you will have gas on the floor and in the engine and always 10x more than an auto petcock  would ever leave in either location.
You are far better off knowing you have a problem with overflow tubes  than sticking your head in the sand and hoping you dont have a problem.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline Summit670

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2013, 10:12:26 pm »
With a vac petcock, just test it a few times a year by taking the fuel line off and see if it leaks.  That would offer some additional peace of mind.

Here is a question - when the fuel lines are full and the petcock off (manual or vac), if one of the fuel valves leak, the fuel in the lines and all the way back up to the petcock could trickle into the float bowl with the leaky valve. 

Is there enough fuel in the lines to pose a threat of hydrock?
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2013, 07:13:22 am »
With a vac petcock, just test it a few times a year by taking the fuel line off and see if it leaks.  That would offer some additional peace of mind.

Here is a question - when the fuel lines are full and the petcock off (manual or vac), if one of the fuel valves leak, the fuel in the lines and all the way back up to the petcock could trickle into the float bowl with the leaky valve. 

Is there enough fuel in the lines to pose a threat of hydrock?

What's going to introduce air into the fuel line to equalize the pressure differential and let the fuel flow out of the fuel line?

and Cholla - turn the lights on in your garage and ignite fuel on the floor?

Seriously, where do you guys get this stuff?  THINK ! Steve