Author Topic: Petcock kit install  (Read 17849 times)

Offline GeeBeav

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2013, 08:24:51 pm »

Quite the fanciful bit of writing....

Yes, quite . . .
In the days of my youth, I was told what it means to be a man.

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2013, 06:50:08 am »
I guess so but the point is the same

datsaxman understands the risks with the manual. I would not have thought anyone else would. Good job datsaxman.
                   Just remember to do what your doing all the time even when the engine stalls say for example  a stuck open float valve  and your good to go unless you have over flow tubes then no worries.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2013, 07:20:15 am »
I got a manual design. I'm pretty darn quick, but thanks for informing me that I'm not THAT quick. Dang! When can I expect this dreaded hydrolock you talk of?
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Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2013, 07:29:25 am »
I got a manual design. I'm pretty darn quick, but thanks for informing me that I'm not THAT quick. Dang! When can I expect this dreaded hydrolock you talk of?

Your a hoseman your very job is accepting, expecting, mitigating and/or dealing with risk....
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline Cholla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2013, 07:40:11 am »
Hydrolock will not happen while the engine is running because the fuel will be burned albeit not completely. It can't flow that much fuel that quickly.
But, let's say your petcock isn't shut off. The cylinders flood with fuel. What is the actual cause?
Poorly designed float valves. Since hydrolock is a common ocurrance there neleds to be a fix for the actual problem. Overflow tubes don't fix the problem. It just allows the fuel tank to empty onto the garge floor.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 08:09:13 am »
OK, not trying to be flippant or cause an uproar. I would think that if this problem is as bad as some say here concerning trashing motors, I would have thought that Kawasaki and all the other manufacturers that use this design, which has been around for decades, would have addressed this problem years ago. I mean, of all the bikes produced, other than anecdotal stories here on this forum, really, how many are experiencing this problem, how many are being ruined? Is there a study? Was there a memo? A recall? Please don't say they addressed it with the new C-14 as this design has been around for decades. Please don't tell me of your friends, family, racing buddies, mechanic's stories or a page long copy/paste treatise, these are all anectdotal. I would have thought that if this many motors were being damaged, that somebody somewhere in either marketing or engineering or design would have experienced it too and decided to redesign it or address it. Are there really THAT many motors being trashed? 
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 11:10:13 am »
It was fixed on the C14. It has fuel injection.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 12:03:12 pm »
Nice try Cholla.
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 01:54:08 pm »
Was there something that I stated that was incorrect?
They don't use the carbs on the C-14 so, it was addressed on the C-14.
Why should they worry? It doesn't happen until the bike is out of warranty. And HONDA makes the carbs.
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Offline jworth

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2013, 03:08:49 pm »
@datsaxman
See reply 11 edited for typo

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 04:55:03 pm »
Read my post Cholla. All of it. Especially near the end where I mention the C-14.
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2013, 05:49:13 pm »
I know, you said to not say they addressed it on the C14 but, hey, ya gotta face it-they did address it and chucked the design.
I axed many moons ago why they continue to use the same carbs.
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Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2013, 06:15:54 pm »
Oh ok. Anyhow, are we the only group of folks experiencing hydrolock, because I never heard of it until I came here I guess is what I'm saying.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2013, 07:18:49 pm »
Strawboss.   You can thank the  US government for not wanting carburetors to vent fuel to the outside air.  Carburetors used to have overflow tubes to prevent this problem but the EPA said no. That is why the bowl castings still have bosses still there so it makes it easy for us to drill holes and add the tubes.

The problem is more frequent than those that post here with blown engines. Many owners have engines with  a bent connecting rod and do not know it. They may notice just a slight vibration and think it is normal. This is why we recommend doing a 'bent rod test' before buying any C10. Another so called ' fix' is to install a clutched starter that slips when it hits a heavy load such as a cylinder full of  fuel but that costs  significantly  more than over flow tubes.

Cholla.  It is not really  a flaw of the float needle seats. All it takes is a small or tiny bit of debris to cause a small float leak. We also dont notice that too often because it clears itself up while riding. Those of us who have over flow tubes  are aware right away when this happens and we just go for a spirited  occasional WOT ride and it clears up.

I should mention that I have had a lot of experience with problem  carbs early on. I had constant float needle issues due to very  tiny fine grains of sand getting into the carbs and landing in the bowls  due to the fact that I live next to the beach.(We have what is called Sugar Sand- it is extremely  fine). It was a big mystery as to why.  At one point I was sure I blew a hole in a piston because of the huge smoke cloud and it looked light blue. I even had a small sign on the handle bar that said "Tap the Starter lightly to make sure the engine is not locked"
 I tried every suggested method including: Inline filter(s), electric fuel shut of valve  and I even toyed with low pressure fuel pumps with filters.
Everything I tried induced other issues. It was not  until overflow tubes were suggested  (by Sunny Steve of course) and once I had those installed I was leaking fuel all over the place from all four carbs at different times. 
Turned out it was a split air box letting the sand in past the air filter.

Sorry for the long write up. I hope this helps.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2013, 07:49:33 pm »
Oh ok. Anyhow, are we the only group of folks experiencing hydrolock, because I never heard of it until I came here I guess is what I'm saying.

While I'm sure there's others, the ZRX guys are having trouble with hydrolock now. Common on their boards. Their engine layout is the same as ours. but they fortunately have a clutched starter gear that slips before bad stuff happens.

All - is hydrolock common? YES. If you watch my video on hydrolock, theres 3 engines represented there that hydro'ed. the first is the one the rod came from; the second is that 05 shortblock with the 2 bent rods; 3rd is the 01 that sprayed all over me. In the past year I've had an 87 in here with a bent rod, and an 86 with 2 bent rods. A couple years ago I swapped rods on an 03 that hydroe'd and locked up.

 roadhound rides day in, day out.  Changing the gas is probably the best thing for the bike's fuel system. the guys I know who ride everyday don't have many carb issues, but most motorcycles end up sitting because they're "pleasure craft" for most of us. And therein lies the problem. After having seen about  350 sets of carbs, I can tell you most bikes go through periods of inactivity, which doesn't do them any good.

 One more point - there's many many connies now fitted with overflow tubes, so those will be off the list for hydrolocks, unless something clogs the drain hose at the end(mud dauber?). As far as trash clogging the overflow tube in the carb? impossible. look at the height of the fuel valve, the depth of the bowl, and the height of the overflow tube. since large chunks of trash don't have legs to climb uphill, clogging the overflow tube itself just will not happen. .Steve

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2013, 07:59:43 pm »
While I'm sure there's others, the ZRX guys are having trouble with hydrolock now. Common on their boards. Their engine layout is the same as ours. but they fortunately have a clutched starter gear that slips before bad stuff happens. Steve

Steve, is the clutched starter something a Concours owner could fit to their engine?  Not going to run out and did it for hydro protection but it would be handy to know in the case of needing a replacement.
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline Strawboss

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2013, 08:06:32 pm »
OK, thanks, that wasn't long at all, explained a few things. I remember I had a 1981 Kawasaki 305, 20,000 miles that leaked out a tube coming from the carbs, over flow or bowl drains? Who knows. Never had hydrolock though. My 1982 KZ, 52,000 miles occasionally leaks in the spring with the warmer/colder days combinations, no hydrolock. Go figure. I got the manual petcock, I'm not going to worry. As Tony said, like work, I do certain things the same way every single time, every time when I start and stop the motor. Clutched starter, so they did think about it then.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2013, 08:07:54 pm »
Steve, is the clutched starter something a Concours owner could fit to their engine?  Not going to run out and did it for hydro protection but it would be handy to know in the case of needing a replacement.

T - it is, there's one in mine, but it requires the cases to be split and it's the very FIRST part to go in. Since I was building the 1109 engine I had a great opportunity to do that, but really, nobody else would, it just doesn't make sense. Steve

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2013, 08:30:55 pm »
T - it is, there's one in mine, but it requires the cases to be split and it's the very FIRST part to go in. Since I was building the 1109 engine I had a great opportunity to do that, but really, nobody else would, it just doesn't make sense. Steve

Got ya...
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Petcock kit install
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2013, 08:45:29 pm »
It is proven the auto petcock is unreliable. Hence the proliferation of rebuild kits and manual replacements.
Besides the real problem is the poor design of the float valves.


well well, well.. bravo.
the auto/vac petcock works well...its the carbs that reall mattered...
actually until the Conccours was produced, (ne it's predecessor the veritable Ninja), we who owned Kaw bikes dealt with MIKUNI CARBS.... SLIDE CARBS....
No Diaphragms..., STEEL FLOAT NEEDLES sitting on BRASS SEATS..... all the wayback to the 60's.....


the redsign of the format using VACUME ASSITED THROTTLE SLIDES FOR ACCELERATION was the down fall of the modern bike; this provoked the VACUME ACTIVATED FUEL VALVE... which while a good design if USED DAILY,  created problems on bikes stored for decades... (who would store a bike that long?...... about 50,000 people evidently..)

with the redesign came the polymer tipped needles, which when a piece of grit rested in the rubber/brass seal area, embededded into the rubber... holding off the seat, and allowing fuel flow...., this rarely happened with the MIC's, and if it did, they overflowed and dumped fuel on the ground....(a-la- the SISF mod...), this didn't solve the problem, but it sure as HELL made it evident there WAS a problem..... and NO HYDRO-loks occured as a result.




C14 Cannot Hydro.
I like that.
COGZILLA needs a rod Job...
I don't like That,


BIG bore time.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..