Author Topic: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT  (Read 19452 times)

Offline eng943

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2013, 08:50:39 am »
I think that the throttle lag is endemic of anything accelerated by wire.  The computer is calling the shots, not the rider.  I quick twist doesn't necessarily translate to the same thing at the TB butterfly.  On Motorhead Garage they had a device that removed that lag (now this was for a truck, I think) and could change it for road or track or some other condition.  I don't see why that couldn't be done somehow for these fly by wire bikes.

It's a two part critisim on my part when it comes to ride by wire. Be it a car or a motorcycle, I just don't feel as connected to the engine as I do when there is a good old fashioned cable opening up the throttle. I don't like ride by wire period, and have not liked it any more or less when I have ridden other ride by wire bikes.

That being said, the software is the other point of contention, and from my experience the throttle lag is typically associated with lame throttle input perameters in the software. BMW seems to have greatly improved the throttle input/response on my 2013 K16GT. Much more responsive than my pre order K16 was.
2017 C14 - AST Risers / Peg Lowering kit / mccruise /Garmin 595/Shoodaben MR / Area P / Kawi Touring Seat.
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Offline martin_14

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2013, 04:19:24 pm »
I think that the throttle lag is endemic of anything accelerated by wire.  The computer is calling the shots, not the rider.  I quick twist doesn't necessarily translate to the same thing at the TB butterfly.  On Motorhead Garage they had a device that removed that lag (now this was for a truck, I think) and could change it for road or track or some other condition.  I don't see why that couldn't be done somehow for these fly by wire bikes.

Jim, I drive other ride-by-wire bikes and there's no lag. The problem of the K16 is very specific, and rather simple: the admission system has only one butterfly for all 6 cylinders, and from the butterfly to the intake there's a long way, so there's inertia in the system. The air column has to be accelerated and it takes time. You give an input to the butterfly, but air doesn't start flowing in immediately.
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Offline martin_14

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2013, 04:22:23 pm »
I thought it was just me and my lack of skill. I don't like hairpins on the C14.

I have an '08 (no linked brakes) so applying a bit of rear brake to pre-load the transmission helps a lot, but it's still a balance act... Funny thing is, when you nail it, you get (yet another) grin  ;D
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Offline sherob

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2013, 04:45:53 pm »
Can you describe the issue you have with the C14 in twisties?  I'm just curious... and I'm not here to criticize either.  ;)
Rob
Brighton, CO... missing Texas!

Offline martin_14

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2013, 12:31:19 am »
Can you describe the issue you have with the C14 in twisties?  I'm just curious... and I'm not here to criticize either.  ;)

you mean me? if yes, my issue is with the really slow curves, like hairpins, where you go below the threshold value where you have to steer the bike, not counter-steer. The chassis has some sensitivity to load transfer fore-aft, and the steering gets heavy. We all experienced the top heaviness of this bike at low speed, and how it disappears when moving. Well, I guess in those hairpins the weight just pops up (?). It's unsettling, at least for me. When applying the rear brake very slightly, the rear suspension is already a bit compressed so you can apply power and will make less of a difference in pitch. When leaning, that's important because you have a more stable center of gravity.

Of course this is difficult when leaning right.
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Offline pistole

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2013, 02:07:40 am »
- imho , if your speed drops to where you need to steer where you want to go (as opposed to countersteering) , thats parking lot speed .... not hairpin speed.

- at parking lot speeds , hell yeah. The C14 is one heck of a handful !

.

Offline sherob

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2013, 08:35:55 am »
you mean me? if yes, my issue is with the really slow curves, like hairpins, where you go below the threshold value where you have to steer the bike, not counter-steer. The chassis has some sensitivity to load transfer fore-aft, and the steering gets heavy. We all experienced the top heaviness of this bike at low speed, and how it disappears when moving. Well, I guess in those hairpins the weight just pops up (?). It's unsettling, at least for me. When applying the rear brake very slightly, the rear suspension is already a bit compressed so you can apply power and will make less of a difference in pitch. When leaning, that's important because you have a more stable center of gravity.

Of course this is difficult when leaning right.

Thanks... was trying to understand the issue. 
Rob
Brighton, CO... missing Texas!

Offline martin_14

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2013, 01:59:21 pm »
- imho , if your speed drops to where you need to steer where you want to go (as opposed to countersteering) , thats parking lot speed .... not hairpin speed.

- at parking lot speeds , hell yeah. The C14 is one heck of a handful !

.

with all due respect, I don't think you've driven in Italian Alpine passes. And I don't mean Passo dello Stelvio, that one's easy. I mean passes with hairpins so tight that if it is wet and because of risk of ice you can't lean, sport bikes have to back up and then forward again to negotiate the curve. The steering radius is just to big  :-\
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Offline gPink

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2013, 03:05:32 pm »
aw com'on, can't be that bad. Hannibal tooks his elephants over those passes.  :)
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Offline pistole

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2013, 05:16:10 pm »
with all due respect, I don't think you've driven in Italian Alpine passes. And I don't mean Passo dello Stelvio, that one's easy. I mean passes with hairpins so tight that if it is wet and because of risk of ice you can't lean, sport bikes have to back up and then forward again to negotiate the curve. The steering radius is just to big  :-\


- like these ?



.

Offline martin_14

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Re: Cycle World - FJR vs. Trophy vs K1600GT
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2013, 01:37:02 am »
- like these ?



.


that's exactly the king of hairpins that the C14 can do no problem. That's a proper, well kept and heavily driven pass like San Bernardino or dello Stelvio. Notice how the street is closer where the car is, but it opens up to increase the curve radius on the hairpin.
But the much smaller and tighter passes within the Italian north (known as Süd Tirol for the locals) or next to the Slovenian border, are much, much tighter. Imagine the guy on the Yamaha stretching out his right arm and touching the street going up and already 3 feet above his wheels. That tight.
Build bridges, not walls.

Education is important. Riding my bike is importanter.