Author Topic: Suspension for the completely stupid  (Read 14270 times)

Offline Flienlow

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Suspension for the completely stupid
« on: August 21, 2013, 01:23:35 pm »
First off, I did read:

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7802.0
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4480.0
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2027.0

Secondly, are there any general ("turn this all the way like this, then back out X# of turns ")   type of settings for this bike? If I was Marc Marquez and was sliding this bike at 100mph in a corner, I would probably care about SAG and all the fusing with measuring it up. I would know about preload and damping and what it all did. - But I'm not, and I don't. I'm just a simple man that wants to lope around a 700lb beast in relative comfort, with relative performance for what the machine is.I keep reading "turn this X# of MM" but I am not sure what it is or how to measure it,and prolly dont have the proper tool to measure anyway.
Having said all that, My C14 goes through a corner like a horrendus pile of elephant dung. I did purchase it preowned so for all intents and purposes, it just may be as good as it gets.- I dont know.
Anyhow, I was hoping for a simple fat ass (250lb) easy to do setting that I could try.  I fully realize I can go out there and start twisting ****, which I may do, but figured I would stop here first.
Cheers!

Offline jsa

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 01:35:29 pm »
Since your complaint is specific to cornering, which tires do you have and how much tread is left?

Offline ZG

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 01:41:28 pm »
Since your complaint is specific to cornering, which tires do you have and how much tread is left?


 :goodpost:




As for the suspension I'm assuming you're running the stock suspension right? IMO if you haven't had the sag set to your weight that's where you should start, it only costs about $20 to have a shop that knows what they're doing do it for you and it will make a world of difference, at least it always does for me. Once the sag is set it's pretty easy to adjust the rear based on what yer doing and what else you have on the bike (ie w/passenger add 10 clicks, bags and trunk loaded add 5 clicks, etc.)






 

Offline sherob

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 01:46:10 pm »
I found that the PR2's were a bit more bouncy in rough surface cornering than Angels or Storms.

What PSI are you running your tires at too?   42psi?
Rob
Brighton, CO... missing Texas!

Offline Flienlow

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 03:22:45 pm »
I have PR2's and running them at 40psi. There is plenty of tread on them.

Offline jsa

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 04:48:10 pm »
I have PR2's and running them at 40psi. There is plenty of tread on them.

PR2's are not known for great handling during the last third of the tire life but assuming they are not there yet, the next thing to check is the steering geometry.  Measuring sag is great if you are shopping for new springs but isn't really required just to set up the steering geometry the way you like it.  You can use the remote preload adjuster on the shock to raise the back end or back out the preload adjuster on the forks to quicken the steering geometry.  As a starting point I would put the forks in the middle and raise the back end as high as it will go and see if that improves the cornering. 

Offline AZ-ZG

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 04:58:14 pm »
Does the owner's manual that comes with the bike have the baseline settings?
I don't remember and am too lazy to look.  :)
Get everything dialed in to stock settings.
Then, when you start changing things keep notes and change one thing at a time.
Find a plastic ruler with millimeters that you can cut in half.  I use it for measuring front preload. Half a ruler is easier than a whole one.

I just twiddled til I got what I like.
42 psi by the gauge and not the TPMS.

She rails the corners real good, even two-up.

Once you get it dialed, like ZG said, all you gotta do is change rear preload per your situation.

Have fun, yer not gonna break anything.   ;D.
I live. I ride. I am. ZG14 
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Offline pistole

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 05:06:23 pm »
Does the owner's manual that comes with the bike have the baseline settings?
I don't remember and am too lazy to look

- got.

- am lazy too.

.

Offline Spanky

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 08:21:52 pm »
You may want to consider doing a search for a suspension set up guy near you. They know what they are doing and should get you much closer to optimum settings than you will achieve on your own. Proper set up can make a major change in the way the bike handles. Based on your weight (I am 260lbs so I speak from experience) new springs front and rear will be worth the money also. Good luck and I hope you get it set up correctly.

Offline texrider

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 08:25:00 pm »
As said, a good place to start with the fork is to put the spring preloads in about the middle, and add rebound just enough to stop the pogo feeling.

The rear spring you may have to take off all preload and add it back until it will support your riding, without bottoming out. It also needs a lot of rebound applied. The rear spring on my '09 is quite strong, and I have zero preload for my 220 lbs plus gear.
2014 Valkyrie

Offline shreveportSS

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 08:36:08 pm »
I will say that I have my suspension set up much stiffer than recommended. I set sag and probably added 2 rounds to the front and 5 clicks to the rear. Rides like a sport bike but it rides on rails.
2011 Concours 14
2011 ZX1000GBF Ninja. Died Dec. 1st, 2012
2012 ZX1000HBF Ninja.

Offline SkyWalker

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 11:59:30 pm »
My take on C14 Susp Setting:

Static sag adjusted in the shop can do so much. Your motorcycle is a dynamic vehicle and will experience much greater vertical forces/accelerations while running down the road than standing still in a shop.

On the C14, Spring Preload is adjustable both front/rear, Compression Dampening is fixed and Rebound Dampening is adjustable both front/rear. (consult your operators manual for means of adjusting these http://kawasaki.com/DefaultFrame.aspx?strContentURL=/SITE/VIVEHICLEINFORMATION/VICHOOSEVEHICLE.ASP )

I reduce preload and rebound on both front and rear. I feel it is easier to start soft and bouncy and work your way up in preload and rebound. My C14 now feel like my grandpa Buick.


SPRING PRELOAD

Spring Preload and Compression Dampening work in the same direction; providing resistance to sag. If you try to adjust your spring preload with small sharp bumps you'll get a compounded reaction of both Spring Preload and Compression Dampening, making it difficult to identify the effect of changes in Spring Preload.

The ideal terrain to fine tune your spring preload is a curve that includes a high amplitude and long wavelength bump (a long and deep bump, like a large swell on the ocean). Combining the "swell" with a curve will simulate an elevated vertical load. The slow and long "swell" bump will provide enough decoupling from the compression dampening so that you can concentrate on spring preload.

You should dial just enough preload so that the suspension doesn't bottom out but a the same time absorbs the bump.


REBOUND DAMPENING

Finish off by dialing in the rebound dampening on varied road surfaces. Sufficient rebound dampening will limit the bikes reaction to a single oscillation. Too much will make the bike choppy as the suspension will not recover rapidly enough for the next bump.


FWD/AFT BALANCE

Care is needed to balance these adjustments on both front and rear so that they work together.

If you're having problem finding an adequate balance between front and rear, re-soften one of the two and work your way back to proper adjustments.

Have fun.

Offline The Pope

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 04:00:59 am »
 :goodpost:

But...... I think that the OP wants a very simplified and step by step method that someone who is mechanicaly challanged can understand. I'm not an expert on setting up a suspension, but I know that several of you are. So if some one can break it down ferther, I think the OP will appreciate it.

Something like......

On the front forks, the large hex nuts on the top of the forks are for adjusting .........(insert proper comments)
and  by turning them clockwise, you will be making them ........... (insert proper comments)
On the front forks, the small knobs just above the hex nuts previously mentioned will change ........(insert proper comments)

etc...
etc...
etc...

I "think" that this is what the OP would like. 
The Pope
2011 C-14 Atomic Silver...... aka ImprovedSilverDammIt.

"The Universe is a contest between engineers making things idiot-proof and God making bigger idiots. So far, God is winning by a wide margin." Unknown author, well I don't know who said it.

Offline SkyWalker

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 07:34:42 am »
:goodpost:

But...... I think that the OP wants a very simplified and step by step method that someone who is mechanicaly challanged can understand. I'm not an expert on setting up a suspension, but I know that several of you are. So if some one can break it down ferther, I think the OP will appreciate it.

Something like......

On the front forks, the large hex nuts on the top of the forks are for adjusting .........(insert proper comments)
and  by turning them clockwise, you will be making them ........... (insert proper comments)
On the front forks, the small knobs just above the hex nuts previously mentioned will change ........(insert proper comments)

etc...
etc...
etc...

I "think" that this is what the OP would like.


I initially did what the Manual instructed. Whoever wrote these base settings back in Tokyo possibly never rode the C14 past the parking lot.

See pages 225, 226, 228 and 229 of the OP manual ( http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/show_pdf.php?manual=OM&pdf_name=99987-1707_EN_2_09.pdf )

Over preloaded front and under dampened rear (I'm no light frame either at +250lbs :yikes:). So my empirical experiment started to get my setting dialed in.


Hope that all of our riding brothers get their suspensions dialed in at their very first attempt; sometimes fiddling with its adjustments feels like trying to find your way out of pitch dark room !

  :chugbeer:

Offline Conrad

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Re: Suspension for the completely stupid
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 08:48:58 am »
Have a look at this table of settings, it may be of some help.

http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=496
Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

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