C10 Canyon Cage Build Thread!

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Morning, guys! So, we've started design on the Saddle Bag Guards and I need your help with a quick measurement! The bike we're working on has aftermarket exhaust and we want to be sure our guards will work with the stock exhaust as well. If anyone has the stock exhaust laying around or still mounted on the bike, I could really use the stock exhausts diameter as well as the distance from the top of the mounted stock exhaust to the bottom of the Saddle Bag both at the front and rear of the Saddle Bag itself (I heard the stock exhaust doesn't run parallel to the bottom of the Saddle Bag so I'd like both measurements if at all possible). If anyone has these handy or can quickly measure for me, I'd be very appreciative!

I'll be posting photos here of our progress as we continue the design/prototyping process for this bike. So, be sure to check back frequently and post your comments/opinions on the design and watch the guards take shape! Cheers!

[turbojoe78]

Diameter of stock exhaust looks to be 5",  distance from top of exhaust to lowest point of bag at back of exhaust is aprox. 1 3/4", distance from exhaust to lowest point of bag at the front of the bag is aprox. 1 1/4".

HTH

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Diameter of stock exhaust looks to be 5",  distance from top of exhaust to lowest point of bag at back of exhaust is aprox. 1 3/4", distance from exhaust to lowest point of bag at the front of the bag is aprox. 1 1/4".

HTH

Much appreciated! I'll be sure to upload some photos once I have something substantial to show you guys.

[RFH87_Connie]

Just to throw something else out there.  Don't forget that some of us (maybe most of us) run either the foot "Scoops" or the hockey stick shaped "fairing extenders" air deflectors, if that has any impact on the design.  There could also be lowered foot peg assemblies also.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Just to throw something else out there.  Don't forget that some of us (maybe most of us) run either the foot "Scoops" or the hockey stick shaped "fairing extenders" air deflectors, if that has any impact on the design.  There could also be lowered foot peg assemblies also.

That's definitely good information to know. Thank you!

[RyanMCEnterprises]

We have some progress to show you guys!

Current Saddle Bag Guard:







The Saddle Bag Guard isn't quite finished yet. We'll be adding a support bar towards the center of the horseshoe similar to our Saddle Bag Guards for the 2013 FJR1300. Also, the brackets won't look like this on the finished product. We'll be sure to radius the bracket around the bar and clean it up all nice once the design is set but, so far, this is the position and basic design. Any thoughts?

Current Canyon Cage:









Don't judge the Canyon Cage too harshly quite yet. We're still doing a bit of tweaking but this is what we have so far. Of course, the finished bar won't have that seam at the middle of the exterior bar, it'll be a solid piece. I did want to give you guys an idea of the bracket work, though. We're thinking of going with a "two point" mount system similar to Murphs bars for the C10 although we're seriously beefing up the bracket work and adding a 1/2 mounting point to that lower mounting spot to help give it some strength.

We were initially considering going with a 3-point system but there's very limited space to tie in a 3rd mounting point further back on the bike. Most of the points are too close to the riders foot/shifter/brake for our comfort and I truly think a 2.5-point guard will work fine on this bike as long as the brackets are substantial enough and the design of the guard is correct.

I really like the aesthetic of the guard so far, though. It's similar to Murphs bars but has a bit more oomph to it. Instead of being a square "C" shape, our guard is further out at the top and angles in towards the bike as it goes down. It looks much better with the fairing on and doesn't appear to stick so far out. Once they have a chance to put the fairing on, I'll snap some more photos for you guys. What do you think of the basic design so far, though? Anything changes you guys would recommend?

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Here are a few shots with the fairing on the bike. From a few angles it looks like the guard is further out than it should be but if you look at the view from the rear, you can see that the guard is about as close in to the bike as it can be while still protecting everything it needs to.

[Two Skies]

Looking good so far.  It'll look better in black (I'm not a big chrome fan).

My initial thought on the rear guard is please make sure to leave adequate room for access to the saddlebag side latch.  I can't quite make out in the pic how much room there is for the latch, plus some people have big hands, so a little extra clearance there to access the keyhole might be helpful if it is 'tight'.

I think there may be some slight angle tweaks that can be made on the front bar to make it look more sporty, but I'm not sure what those would be.  If the bike lies 'flat'/tires leave the ground and go parallel, then your bar angle makes sense, otherwise I think some offset from vertical to complement the fairing might look nice.  As you pointed out, though, with the air wings and pedals, you kinda have to get the lower extension out as far as you have it, so really it'll come down to what happens after that lower bend/what makes sense.

Looking at your pic, and referencing the upper front mounting screws for the side fairing (not the lower two with the triangle cover, the upper two), there may not be enough 'heft' to the mount there to give adequate reinforcement for a three point mount I tried to explain in the other post.  I see your lower support, and it makes sense, the mounting holes I'm thinking of are higher, and aren't looking beefy enough for a support, but I've never removed the radiator on mine so I'm not sure what is there frame wise.

Finally, and this might add too much to the price, but it might be nice to have the front bar 'slide over' some smaller diameter bars with some sort of spring pins to secure it in place (i.e. push in on pin, bar slides off), for those of us that remove the side fairings regularly for maintenance.  The pins would have to be beefy enough to hold the bar in place in the event of a spill, but not look dorky in the process.  I suppose you could use bolts too, but that might not look as classy.

Hope this helps with your brainstorming!
 

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I appreciate the feedback, Two Skies! The bar will definitely look better in black and that's what we're going to finish it with, same as our other Canyon Cages. I do agree, though. I'd kinda like the front bar to look a bit sportier as well. That's actually why we gave it that angle as opposed to Murphs "square C" shape. I'm going to try and work on streamlining the design a bit so it does look a tad more aggressive.

Also, I'll be sure there is enough room to access those side latches on the saddle bags. That's going to be a very important aspect. We like when people can open/remove the bags without tinkering with the guards.

As for that quick-release type system you're describing, it might be doable but as you said it will definitely add cost. It seems to me like price point is going to be very important, especially with an older bike like this. With the current mounting points, the guard goes on quite easy so I'm not sure the loss in strength is worth the 10-15 minutes you'll save but it's something we can definitely look into. We have the bike for another couple weeks so we definitely have time to test different ideas out.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I was just out back and checked that side latch on the saddle bag, there's definitely plenty of room to toggle it between the guard.

Anyway, I just wanted to post another update on the Saddle Bag Guards! We changed one of the mounting points because the last design was a bit weaker than we'd like it to be. This design is quite a bit stronger. However, we may end up adding a small, 3rd mounting point that stems off of that upper point and reaches forward to that black mounting point directly above that silver-looking piece that holds the passenger peg. That would make it slightly less likely that that bracket on the upper mount would bend towards the bike during a drop.

Also, once we get the design set, we'll be adding a round support bar between the horseshoe portion of the rear guard.

[Two Skies]

My main concern r.e. the front guard is unbolting it.  With the fairing on, there is no easy way to access the nut on the other side of the front engine mount (where the top of your bar attaches to), and even then it can be a pain to try to snake a wrench in there.  I'm not sure what the solution to that is, but I'm guessing you might have one already in mind?

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of us end up inserting a washer between the engine mount and the frame mount, as the frame naturally seems to have a slight gap on one side.  This helps slightly with the handlebar buzz.  I mention this, as it might be slightly annoying to unthread the bolt and here that washer go 'plink' and disappear somewhere...

I hope this feedback is helping.  Kinda surprised our veteran C-10'ers haven't commented yet...

[RyanMCEnterprises]

My main concern r.e. the front guard is unbolting it.  With the fairing on, there is no easy way to access the nut on the other side of the front engine mount (where the top of your bar attaches to), and even then it can be a pain to try to snake a wrench in there.  I'm not sure what the solution to that is, but I'm guessing you might have one already in mind?

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of us end up inserting a washer between the engine mount and the frame mount, as the frame naturally seems to have a slight gap on one side.  This helps slightly with the handlebar buzz.  I mention this, as it might be slightly annoying to unthread the bolt and here that washer go 'plink' and disappear somewhere...

I hope this feedback is helping.  Kinda surprised our veteran C-10'ers haven't commented yet...

All feedback certainly helps!

The fairing will have to be loosened a bit to install this guard but I agree that accessing that nut behind that upper mounting point is a pain. I do have a rough solution, though. What we've done is weld a bracket or "handle" onto that nut which will allow you to hold the nut in place back there from the exterior of the bike. It's basically an L bracket with the nut welded just above that 90 degree turn. I've thrown together a rough visual of what I mean. It's not the best solution but it definitely makes it easier to handle that nut and the bracket/handle will be hidden once the bar and fairing is completely installed.

Yea, I wish we could get a few other people offering ideas/comments on the design!

[Two Skies]

Looking at your lower mount, is the 'L/Z' bracket that attaches to the frame threaded on the bar end?  I see the hex head bolt there, which if it threaded into the mount would be easy to remove with a socket and extension.

If so, similar treatment on top (introducing a similar bracket with a threaded receptacle) would allow you to just unbolt the bar without messing with the engine mount.  Also, if you are using a nut on the other side instead of threading the step bracket, spot welding the nut to the step bracket would be a piece of cake.  That way, no worries about falling nuts, etc.

The removable feature I mentioned I personally would pay extra for, if strength could be maintained (perhaps a solid steel rod that the tubular bar slips over would do the trick), but I'm not sure how much expense we'd be talking, and C-10ers are known for being frugal.

Also, I'm sure you were clear on this already, but here is an example of those double button locking pins I was mentioning earlier... this would work with a double tube design (insert these inside the inner tube).
http://www.valcocleve.com/products.asp?subcategory=Double%20End%20%28D%20Series%29&cat=snap

I'm kinda liking the solid steel shaft idea though (Connies are heavy) with the outer tubular sleeve.  You could use a cap screw that threads through the shaft and out the other side (head at the top, excess length at the bottom, so tube is secured on both sides of the shaft).  Tapping the steel shaft with threads would be manpower intensive, however unless you could find some shafts with pre-threaded holes in them.  Its a fun idea anyways...

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Looking at your lower mount, is the 'L/Z' bracket that attaches to the frame threaded on the bar end?  I see the hex head bolt there, which if it threaded into the mount would be easy to remove with a socket and extension.

If so, similar treatment on top (introducing a similar bracket with a threaded receptacle) would allow you to just unbolt the bar without messing with the engine mount.  Also, if you are using a nut on the other side instead of threading the step bracket, spot welding the nut to the step bracket would be a piece of cake.  That way, no worries about falling nuts, etc.

The removable feature I mentioned I personally would pay extra for, if strength could be maintained (perhaps a solid steel rod that the tubular bar slips over would do the trick), but I'm not sure how much expense we'd be talking, and C-10ers are known for being frugal.

Also, I'm sure you were clear on this already, but here is an example of those double button locking pins I was mentioning earlier... this would work with a double tube design (insert these inside the inner tube).
http://www.valcocleve.com/products.asp?subcategory=Double%20End%20%28D%20Series%29&cat=snap

I'm kinda liking the solid steel shaft idea though (Connies are heavy) with the outer tubular sleeve.  You could use a cap screw that threads through the shaft and out the other side (head at the top, excess length at the bottom, so tube is secured on both sides of the shaft).  Tapping the steel shaft with threads would be manpower intensive, however unless you could find some shafts with pre-threaded holes in them.  Its a fun idea anyways...

Those are some great suggestions that I'll work on getting implemented today! That "L/Z" bracket isn't threaded but there is a nut back there that's already spot welded so you can remove the bar using that outer bolt and leave the inner one installed for when you reinstall the bar after maintenance. I'll see if we can work something similar on the top.

Also, I'll see if I can discuss the implementation of some sort of quick-release system with my Tech today. It's something we've never done before so it may take some tinkering but I'm sure we could do it if we put our minds to it!

I really appreciate all the feed back, TwoSkies!

[RFH87_Connie]

Just so you realize, there are probably quite few people interested in the ease of removability for this product for maintenance.  Otherwise, what you're making is already on the market.  We're just sitting here and listening.  Also, in the grand scheme of things, some users would probably need to purchase replacement parts for when the rider has a mishap.  I modular product is a big plus to that.

Another cool "option" for the front bars would be to request (at order time) a generic bracket or tab to be welded on for aux lights if a generic sized tab is available.  That way, you wouldn’t need to buy extra brackets for lights.  Maybe this is not possible due to the wide range of light sizes, although if welded out towards the outer edge, almost anything would fit and still be protected by the bar.

I won’t even mention pre-welded foot peg brackets or complete assemblies that riders might want.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Just so you realize, there are probably quite few people interested in the ease of removability for this product for maintenance.  Otherwise, what you're making is already on the market.  We're just sitting here and listening.  Also, in the grand scheme of things, some users would probably need to purchase replacement parts for when the rider has a mishap.  I modular product is a big plus to that.

Another cool "option" for the front bars would be to request (at order time) a generic bracket or tab to be welded on for aux lights if a generic sized tab is available.  That way, you wouldn’t need to buy extra brackets for lights.  Maybe this is not possible due to the wide range of light sizes, although if welded out towards the outer edge, almost anything would fit and still be protected by the bar.

I won’t even mention pre-welded foot peg brackets or complete assemblies that riders might want.

Even if we don't go with a "quick-release" type system (which we're looking into), this guard will be extremely easy to remove for maintenance. With the "multi-bracket" design, it'll be very easy to remove the cage as the two bolts are easily accessible from the exterior of the bike which will allow you to remove this guard within minutes. It may not be 30 seconds but I believe the added strength is worth spending an extra few minutes removing the guard. Although, we're still looking into the possibility of a quick-release system.

There is a similar product on the market but from what I've heard it's very unpopular due to uninspired design and a wicked tendency to bend under very light pressure. So, although the product is similar, we're doing what we can to create a guard that will actually protect the bike instead of folding immediately under the pressure of a drop and look a bit better. I mean, if the guard is going to give way anyway, what's the point of spending money on a guard at all? Even though there may be a similar product on the market, I assumed people would enjoy offering opinions/ideas while watching us incorporate those ideas. When we did this for the C14, the thread page count was in the 50s if I remember correctly but I understand that's a newer bike with a larger following. However, I did post a heads-up thread in the C14 section for people who want to participate.

We could do that special-order bracket thing for the lights but the customer would have to wait a good 4-6 weeks to receive it as that sort of modification would have to be added while we're manufacturing the guard and most people don't want to wait that long. Normally, people just buy a generic 1" clamp and simply clamp auxiliary lighting to the guard if they so desire.

[RFH87_Connie]

I hope I didn't come across wrong.  What I meant was we are all hoping and giving input into this to have a better choice and to ultimately have a better product available.  Sturdy brackets and quick removal (or lack of) are at the top of the list from most of the posts in the past.  We are definitely hoping yours is a better and can do more than just protect the bike from a "garage drop" as the other product does.

I have a nice all black debadged C-10 that I would never put the other brackets on simply because of their looks.  I'm hoping yours look "cool" or at least blend in well.  For me, matte black would be a better choice than gloss black.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I hope I didn't come across wrong.  What I meant was we are all hoping and giving input into this to have a better choice and to ultimately have a better product available.  Sturdy brackets and quick removal (or lack of) are at the top of the list from most of the posts in the past.  We are definitely hoping yours is a better and can do more than just protect the bike from a "garage drop" as the other product does.

I have a nice all black debadged C-10 that I would never put the other brackets on simply because of their looks.  I'm hoping yours look "cool" or at least blend in well.  For me, matte black would be a better choice than gloss black.

That certainly makes sense. We're doing everything we can to make the removal as easy as possible (as well as making the guard look as "cool") as I know that's very important. With that being said, we're currently working on a way to modify the top mounting point. What we're thinking is incorporating a U bracket that bends around that top mounting point with a nut welded to the backside that the guard itself then bolts to. So, basically, you install that U bracket the first time you install the guard and then never have to touch it again (the U bracket stays installed even when you remove the guard itself for maintenance). The guard itself will then bolt to that U bracket via an external bolt that's much more accessible. It'd be very similar to how the lower front mounting point is now. It's not quite a "quick-release" system but this would allow you to remove or reinstall the guard within 2 or 3 minutes.

We'll definitely be going with a matte black powder coat finish. It's a tougher finish than a gloss black paint and tends to "disappear" into background colors easier than a gloss finish as well.

[Jwh360]

Sounds like things are moving right along Ryan!  I think your upper bracket idea may be the winner.  Removing the bar easily for maintenance is a big deal.  The plastic has to come off for just about any type of work, so that means it comes off often.  I also like the revised rear bar mounts.  The first design looked like it may have interfered with the passengers feet.  BTW - That's a good looking bike you have there.   

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Sounds like things are moving right along Ryan!  I think your upper bracket idea may be the winner.  Removing the bar easily for maintenance is a big deal.  The plastic has to come off for just about any type of work, so that means it comes off often.  I also like the revised rear bar mounts.  The first design looked like it may have interfered with the passengers feet.  BTW - That's a good looking bike you have there.   

It is a gorgeous bike, for sure! I appreciate the feedback on the upper mount, though. I also just spoke to a gentleman on the phone that had a great idea regarding how to incorporate a "quick-release" type system that we're going to work on designing that would allow you to remove the guards using two small allen bolts within about a minute.