Author Topic: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.  (Read 15128 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2014, 05:44:42 am »
Yep, with no one being the wiser.

I probably shouldn't make it sound so negative.  I am fairly sure Kawasaki does what [most?] all manufacturers do- they have a book with labor times in it.  They pay according to the book and could care less how long it actually takes.  If you are good/fast, you can make a LOT of money.  If you are poor/slow, you will lose your shirt.  So finding better/faster ways to fix things is really not a bad thing, as long as the quality of workmanship is still there... Kawasaki probably doesn't care.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2014, 09:15:35 am »
The system is called 'flat rate' and it generally works very well. You got all the points except one: the workmanship factor is built into the system as well; if the work / repair is not right or the customer is not happy, the technician gets to do it again or make it acceptable on his / her dime, plus the company (the dealer) loses money by having work done under their roof without any incoming money on any re- work.

My experience with the system was a long time ago with GM and as I said, it worked well for everyone involved in my opinion. The labor times were set by Motor and most of them were pretty reasonable. Kawasaki is skewing the system by undervaluing the labor far too  much, again IMO. For example, they call for 3.2 hours on a valve lash / check and we all know that is just not going to happen, at least using Earth hours. They do this so they can cut down what they pay dealers for warranty work but it ends up tilting the whole system.

But still, the basic idea of flat rate is pure capitalism and can, and often does, work very well for all parties.

Brian

I probably shouldn't make it sound so negative.  I am fairly sure Kawasaki does what [most?] all manufacturers do- they have a book with labor times in it.  They pay according to the book and could care less how long it actually takes.  If you are good/fast, you can make a LOT of money.  If you are poor/slow, you will lose your shirt.  So finding better/faster ways to fix things is really not a bad thing, as long as the quality of workmanship is still there... Kawasaki probably doesn't care.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2014, 04:46:44 pm »
Kawasaki is skewing the system by undervaluing the labor far too  much, again IMO. For example, they call for 3.2 hours on a valve lash / check and we all know that is just not going to happen, at least using Earth hours. They do this so they can cut down what they pay dealers for warranty work but it ends up tilting the whole system.

Yep, that is the huge, major potential flaw with flat rates- if they don't list reasonable times, then it doesn't work well for the mechanic/shop who will then do one of the following:

* Complain to the manufacturer (takes time)
* Avoid doing warranty work by throwing in delays and "inconveniences" (hurts shop rep and inconveniences customers)
* Rush the job and make mistakes or just do it all poorly (hurts shop rep and hurts customers)
* Try to gouge the customer by making up other stuff that NOT covered and bill the customer (hurts shop rep and hurts customers)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2014, 05:35:03 pm »
I tried the video thingy and it just did not work out. So I went through the process and took a bunch of photos: think of this is a photo essay :-) 

First of all, I used these 12" long clamps. They come with a plastic jaw protector that I found got in the way and made the clamp slippery- they worked much better with the jaw covers removed.


Remove the valve stem and turn the wheel so the stem is facing down (more or less)- then put the first clamp on the back of the tire so that the moving jaw just touches the rim on the way by and put a little pressure on it:


In this position, the far jaw will firmly catch the wheel edge:


Put the second clamp about 3" or 4" away from the first clamp and put some pressure on that one too.


Alternate between the clamps moving the bead in until it is broken from the wheel:


Slip a block of wood in-between the wheel rim and the tire, between the clamps. I used a piece of 2X4:


Remove both clamps:


Rotate the tire about 70 or 75 degrees AWAY from the valve stem and again use the two clamps about 4" apart to squeeze the tire and place another block of wood between the tire and wheel- this time will be much easier because the bead has already been broken. Continue to do this until only the area immediately around the valve stem is left with the tire bead seated on the rim:


At this point, put both clamps on the tire again, about 5" apart and centered around the sensor and begin to squeeze the tire down but do NOT move the tire all the way to the center of the wheel because it will catch and break the sensor- this is the first part of this process that takes some care and fiddling. The sensor cannot be seen in this photo but it is immediately behind the tire bead; it is easy to tell where the sensor is because it is mounted to the valve stem:


With the tire held up near but not against the sensor, reach in with a tire iron or long, flat blade screwdriver and gently move the tire away from the wheel as you continue to squeeze just one clamp. The tire bead will slide over the sensor. It may and probably will drag on the sensor so be careful to go slowly here and not let anything bang or move suddenly. Once one edge of the tire bead is over the sensor, move the tire iron to the tire at the other end of the sensor and then squeeze the opposite clamp so that the entire tire bead is over the sensor:


Once the bead is over the sensor, carefully squeeze both clamps, a bit at at time, and watch the tire slide over the sensor body until it is on the other side. Again, go easy here because the sensor is plastic and if the tire catches it and lots of pressure is used on the clamps, it will break. Finally, the entire bead will be on the far side of the sensor and the sensor itself can be removed using a hex wrench:


Once the new battery is in the sensor and the sensor reinstalled in the wheel, again use a tire iron to help get the tire bead over and past the sensor as the clamps are released a little bit at a time. Once the entire sensor is 'behind' the tire bead, release the clamps, remove all wood blocks, check to make sure the wheel and tire bead are clean (clean them if needed), apply a bit of rubber lube to the entire bead and inflate the tire to again seat the bead. Then install the valve stem and inflate the tire to the final pressure.

The rear sensor can be tested by putting the bike on the centerstand, starting the bike and running the rear wheel up to ~20 MPH (any gear although 4th or 5th is quieter and less jerky on the centerstand) for about a minute. Before doing this, put the bike's LCD readout on the tire pressure screen and once the rear TPS has turned on, a reading will show on the screen if the battery replacement worked.

There is no easy way to test the front sensor without riding the bike that I know of. There are several difficult ways but the most fun ones would involve an electric drill and a large sanding drum to spin the front tire up.  ;D

Edited to add 27 April 2015:   You can test the front sensor by tieing a string to the stem and swinging it around in a large circle, about 5' in diameter. Turn the ignition on, turn the display to tire pressure and swing the sensor pretty fast for at least 60 seconds: the display should read: 0 PSI (which is correct when the sensor is not inside a tire) and the display will flash the 'Low tire pressure' warning.

Brian and then Brian again.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 12:59:49 pm by B.D.F. »
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Offline maxtog

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2014, 07:49:56 pm »
I tried the video thingy and it just did not work out. So I went through the process and took a bunch of photos: think of this is a photo essay :-) 

Excellent
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Offline Rhino

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2014, 08:30:20 pm »
Outstanding  Brian!

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2014, 01:13:38 pm »
UPDATE:  I had a chance to do a few of these battery changes, using this method of 'on the bike' TPS sensor R&R last Sat. at a COG tech. day and wanted to let everyone know that it works well and pretty fast. Of course it gets quicker after doing a few of them :-)  The last bike I did took just over an hour, and that includes both removing and re installing the sensors themselves on the bike, as well as opening both sensors, removing the old batteries and installing (soldering) in the new ones. So it is a pretty quick task and well worth doing IMO.

All sensors tested worked fine although I did not test any of the front wheels..... except the one where I mixed up the sensors on the bike and could not tell which one was front and which one was the rear. And before someone asks, yes, I did mark them but I ended up with both covers off both sensors at the same time and could not be sure which cover went with which sensor.... so the one marked 'R' might not really have been the rear. No problem though, a piece of string tied to the valve stem and spinning the sensor around turned it on (not that way!- easy boys!) so it displayed on the dash.

Brian
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Offline jimmymac

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2015, 02:47:28 pm »
F TPS. and F a flashing dash. I can check my own tires when needed, and can feel when a tire is going flat on my own.

I just want to be sure before my next tire change that I can put a regular valve stem in there and have no flashing dash or fitment issues.

I've asked this question before and got some wishy-washy answers.
Can anyone verify that will work?
Traded my Connie for the H2SXSE+

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2015, 04:43:06 pm »
As far as no flashing dash, that part is true and any valve stem should work if it fits the hole correctly, but if you go to the trouble to take it out, just take it apart and remove the battery and put it back together.  Accomplishes the same thing, without buying a new stem.
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Offline jimmymac

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2015, 08:52:36 pm »
If it fits the hole...
It's a valve stem... it's from North America. Will it fit or not? ::)
Can I please get an answer?
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Offline jimmymac

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2015, 08:55:37 pm »
Really? Has no one disabled this worthless dash drama?
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2015, 08:01:56 am »
Hold on, I think I answered that on another forum..  8mm should work.  Do a search on 8mm valve stems and something should turn up.
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Offline lather

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2015, 04:43:22 pm »
Really? Has no one disabled this worthless dash drama?
When I trashed my front wheel running over a grapefruit sized junk of concrete I bought a ZX14 wheel. It came with a good tire so I ran with the ZX14 stem until the tire was used up. No issues with the dash, read showed PSI as usual, front showed ---, no warning, no red light. Next tire change I stuck the TPS in the ZX14 wheel and all was back to OEM. Hope that answers your question.

And if your intention is to disable TPS I would buy a regular valve stem. In my opinion the TPS valve stem does not hold air as well as regular stems and it is not as compatible with some air hose chucks.
Nothing worse than having your balls go missing.

Offline jimmymac

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2015, 06:06:23 pm »
Good to known a regular valve stem works in a ZX14 wheel.
How about a Connie wheel?








 ;) :feedback:
Do all you guys really need to know your tire pressure at all times? ::)
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Offline lather

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Re: The TPS sensors can be R&R'd without taking the wheels off.
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2015, 06:28:00 pm »
I think the two wheels are identical except for color.
Anyway if a gtr stem works in a zx wheel then a zx stem must therefore work on a gtr wheel
Let me know if you see any flaw in my logic.
Nothing worse than having your balls go missing.