Author Topic: What did you do to your Concours today?  (Read 684706 times)

Offline connie14boy

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #855 on: March 08, 2015, 09:49:24 pm »
Yup. I agree, nice 200km Hwy run does a soul good. I had to see if the Dyna Beads did there job. And yea they did.


I wonder if the Dyna Beads affect the TPMS sensors as they fling around in the tire?

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #856 on: March 08, 2015, 09:54:21 pm »
Nope- a C-14 is down by 40, 50 Hp and up 140 lbs. from a ZX.... it will not be as quick or as fast as a ZX without supercharging (mechanical or exhaust driven). Even putting a ZX engine into a Concours chassis will leave it considerably lower in performance due to the increased weight and the fact that the two sets of gears in a shaft drive bike consume a lot of power; chains consume almost none.

I do not want to get too deep into this in a general thread like this one though. There are already several, actually many, threads started about the 'pull the 'flies vs. reflash' as well as lots of threads about what both do, some in great detail. I have put quite a few details in some of those threads already and would be happy to comment in either a revived thread or a new one but I really do think the answers are already out there. As always on a public forum, there is a lot of garbage out there too but that is the reader's job, to separate the 'wheat from the chaff', use the good info and ignore the bad. And by the way, there are two companies out there at least doing re-flashes on the ECU so you can avoid that trap too.

I will say though that both methods work (re-flash and physically removing the secondary butterflies) and both have a slightly different set of both positive and negative points. My personal opinion is that a monitored (using an oxygen sensor) system that is 'self tuning' is best, and that can be done two different ways also although neither involves another company doing a re-flash.

There is a member here named Rembrant (Cory) who has gone down both paths with his C-14 and has written in great detail about both methods; I think his stuff is worth a read if you are interested in learning more about it.

Brian

Brian, I knew I could depend on you to throw logical confusion into the deal.  Appreciate your input.  With Guhl or w/o flies, does it pull like the ZX14 (not R), or more like the carbed ZZR1200, I had?  From 4K up, it was a beast.  Leaned forward and just hanging on for the ride.  tp    Thanks Rubberdown.   WOW, all those chart numbers reminds me of what I deal with at my job.  I hate rows and rows of numbers.   Appreciate the help, though.  tom
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Offline maxtog

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #857 on: March 08, 2015, 10:08:20 pm »
A big part of the gospel of Guhl is that leaving the 'flies in actually increases intake velocity compared with them removed.

I haven't read about that one.  Seems like an odd thought process.

Quote
That is all fine and well if anyone cares what the velocity is in the intake tract but then somehow that "fact" leads the flock to believe that velocity increase also increases engine power output. So the reflash has something for everyone I guess, the above story for those who choose to believe (or blindly follow idiocy), and humor for the rest of us.

I choose to think it is humorous :)

Quote
:-)

The easiest, fastest and most absolute way to open the 'flies the soonest is to remove them and put them on a shelf somewhere where they cannot do any harm.

I don't know about easiest.  It is a lot easier to pop out the ECU and then pop it back in.  But some of us are not as mechanically inclined as others (I being one of the former).
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Offline maxtog

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #858 on: March 08, 2015, 10:13:26 pm »
With Guhl or w/o flies, does it pull like the ZX14 (not R), or more like the carbed ZZR1200, I had?  From 4K up, it was a beast.  Leaned forward and just hanging on for the ride.  tp   

I doubt it will ever pull like a ZX14, unless you are prepared to spend a lot more money and do a lot more things than just pulling the flies (like full exhaust, new intake path, larger throttle bodies, etc, etc) and even then it is not gonna.  But removing or nullifying ("Guhling") the secondaries has an immediate and pretty drastic effect on the responsiveness.... considerably more than I expected.  I consider it a "must have" improvement.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #859 on: March 08, 2015, 10:14:58 pm »
Can somebody tell me what kind of impact the reflash has on fuel consumption?  Thanx in advance for your reply

Plenty of threads on the board about it.  It won't affect fuel economy except for the fact that the new found power/responsiveness has you wanting to turn the throttle a lot more to put an even bigger smile on your face.... that tends to destroy economy.  But, if you are willing to flip off the EPA, you can flip off the gas pump too...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Diamondhead

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #860 on: March 08, 2015, 10:41:38 pm »
Thanx

Plenty of threads on the board about it.  It won't affect fuel economy except for the fact that the new found power/responsiveness has you wanting to turn the throttle a lot more to put an even bigger smile on your face.... that tends to destroy economy.  But, if you are willing to flip off the EPA, you can flip off the gas pump too...
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Offline connie14boy

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #861 on: March 08, 2015, 10:59:15 pm »
A big part of the gospel of Guhl is that leaving the 'flies in actually increases intake velocity compared with them removed. That is all fine and well if anyone cares what the velocity is in the intake tract but then somehow that "fact" leads the flock to believe that velocity increase also increases engine power output. So the reflash has something for everyone I guess, the above story for those who choose to believe (or blindly follow idiocy), and humor for the rest of us.

:-)


The easiest, fastest and most absolute way to open the 'flies the soonest is to remove them and put them on a shelf somewhere where they cannot do any harm.

Brian



I think they are mistakenly referring to the "Bernoulli Effect" of increasing the velocity of a gas or liquid by forcing it thru a smaller opening. When cruising thru mountain passes, I sometimes run into bursts of high winds that are being squeezed thru the canyons. Very surprising at times.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #862 on: March 09, 2015, 04:06:04 am »
120 mph, right? 100km = 60m

I did one of those conversion thingys on the web.  Did it again and came up with 124.274238 mph.  I hate the metric system.  Can't figure anything out at all.
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Offline gPink

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #863 on: March 09, 2015, 04:11:46 am »
A big part of the gospel of Guhl is that leaving the 'flies in actually increases intake velocity compared with them removed. That is all fine and well if anyone cares what the velocity is in the intake tract but then somehow that "fact" leads the flock to believe that velocity increase also increases engine power output. So the reflash has something for everyone I guess, the above story for those who choose to believe (or blindly follow idiocy), and humor for the rest of us.

:-)

The easiest, fastest and most absolute way to open the 'flies the soonest is to remove them and put them on a shelf somewhere where they cannot do any harm.

Brian

That's funny. I've tried to get the adherents to explain that with little success. I relate it to getting a potato chip stuck in your throat and trying to take a deep breath. 
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #864 on: March 09, 2015, 04:21:08 am »
A big part of the gospel of Guhl is that leaving the 'flies in actually increases intake velocity compared with them removed. That is all fine and well if anyone cares what the velocity is in the intake tract but then somehow that "fact" leads the flock to believe that velocity increase also increases engine power output. So the reflash has something for everyone I guess, the above story for those who choose to believe (or blindly follow idiocy), and humor for the rest of us.


Is that different from speeding up the air into the TBs?  Isn't that why Kwackers put the intakes in the front?  What does a supercharger do?  I know.  So many questions.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #865 on: March 09, 2015, 05:40:37 am »
Is that different from speeding up the air into the TBs?  Isn't that why Kwackers put the intakes in the front?  What does a supercharger do?  I know.  So many questions.

It is all about amount of air, not really velocity- getting in more total air.  You can funnel things and increase the speed, but at the cost of volume (it is like electricity- increasing the volts but at the expense of amps, so you end up with the same total power (watts)).

Like supercharging (but a zillion times less effective), the ram-air effect is just a way to increase pressure so more air can get in the engine. 
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #866 on: March 09, 2015, 08:57:11 am »
While it can be fun to poke them in the eye with those questions, or as I used to do, ask for data (the righteous DOES own a dynamometer after all), in the end it just is not worth it. I put it under the heading of teaching a pig to sing-

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It ain't gonna' work, and it annoys the pig.  :-)

Brian

That's funny. I've tried to get the adherents to explain that with little success. I relate it to getting a potato chip stuck in your throat and trying to take a deep breath.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #867 on: March 09, 2015, 09:00:38 am »
Actually Bernoulli's principle would work here, and they may be thinking of that (though doubtful, seems more like blind groping reasons the magic works to me). But actually applying a velocity increase and Bernoulli's principle must result in a pressure drop, which will end up with the identical volume of the working fluid. So zero gain in theory, and in actuality, losses from friction and deflection from having to go around the plates.

Brian



I think they are mistakenly referring to the "Bernoulli Effect" of increasing the velocity of a gas or liquid by forcing it thru a smaller opening. When cruising thru mountain passes, I sometimes run into bursts of high winds that are being squeezed thru the canyons. Very surprising at times.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #868 on: March 09, 2015, 11:38:54 pm »
I did one of those conversion thingys on the web.  Did it again and came up with 124.274238 mph.  I hate the metric system.  Can't figure anything out at all.


Try this one.
http://www.unit-conversion.info/length.html

Offline gPink

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Re: What did you do to your Concours today?
« Reply #869 on: March 10, 2015, 03:48:37 am »
I did one of those conversion thingys on the web.  Did it again and came up with 124.274238 mph.  I hate the metric system.  Can't figure anything out at all.
I just penciled out the math and got...200 kph=124.27423845 mph.  :)
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