Poll

Have you tried the "TPS Calibration" Procedure?  What are your findings?  (After you vote here, Describe your actual findings in a post, and please note the mileage you believe the issue started, and the current mileage on your bike.)

Gen 1, Throttle Issues Before, Running Smooth After.
2 (2.7%)
Gen 1, Throttle Issues Before, No Change.
1 (1.3%)
Gen 1, Throttle Issues Before, Running Rough After.
0 (0%)
Gen 1, Throttle OK Before, Running Smooth After.
3 (4%)
Gen 1, Throttle OK Before, No Change.
10 (13.3%)
Gen 1, Throttle OK Before, Running Rough After.
0 (0%)
-------------------------------BREAK-------------------------------
0 (0%)
Gen 2, Throttle Issues Before, Running Smooth After.
7 (9.3%)
Gen 2, Throttle Issues Before, No Change.
1 (1.3%)
Gen 2, Throttle Issues Before, Running Rough After.
0 (0%)
Gen 2, Throttle OK Before, Running Smooth After.
1 (1.3%)
Gen 2, Throttle OK Before, No Change.
2 (2.7%)
Gen 2, Throttle OK Before, Running Rough After.
0 (0%)
-------------------------------BREAK-------------------------------
0 (0%)
Engine WARM when calibration sequence was run.
11 (14.7%)
Engine COLD when calibration sequence was run.
13 (17.3%)
Have you unplugged your battery, and the issues started AFTER the battery unplug?
1 (1.3%)
Have you unplugged your battery, but the issues started BEFORE the battery unplug?
2 (2.7%)
After Calibration FUEL MILEAGE INCREASED (Assuming same riding style)
2 (2.7%)
After Calibration FUEL MILEAGE DECREASED (Assuming same riding style)
0 (0%)
Did your Idle INCREASE?
1 (1.3%)
Did your Idle STAY THE SAME?
15 (20%)
Did your Idle DECREASE?
3 (4%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Author Topic: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)  (Read 60451 times)

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

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SOLVED!  See answer below, Post #2.


Ok, so the thread title tells you that I already know basically what it is... here's the symptoms.

-12k Miles, oil changed every 3k so far, will be 5k at next oil change.  Last change was at 10k miles.
-BMC (K&N) Air filter
-Stock everything else important
-Modified the throttle tube to be like a throttlemeister, helped with the "snatch", but still experience all of the symptoms.
-Symptoms are 10x worse when cold, but also very present when the engine is at proper temp, or running hot (traffic etc)
-Have NOT changed the spark plugs yet. On my 650 the book said change them every 7k miles, I did every 15k miles and even then they looked perfect... I know every bike is different but I never noticed any change in how it ran with the new plugs because they looked almost new when they came out.
-Throttle cables are properly tightened

- The common dead spot at low RPM when slow starting (IE: With cars in front of me) Even with the idle raised.
- When engine braking then getting back on the gas (IE, approaching a corner) the bike hesitates.  It's almost like you twist the throttle to open the butterflies, but the throttle forgets that when you twist it it's supposed to accelerate, and when it finally does, it tries to make up for lost time and it hits with power hard and all at once... Not exactly what you want when cornering...
- Recently I have noticed a popping when going from engine braking to light throttle (slowing down from 45 to 35 using engine braking)
- Surging under accelleration between 1500 and 4k RPM in 1st-3rd at light throttle opening.


I think I've narrowed it down to either Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) [NOT TMPS for those who think TPS means tire pressure sensor...) or throttle body synchronization.  I've noticed it from about 1000 miles, and it seems to be getting worse. That leads me to believe it's the throttle bodies, BUT, I'm not 100% sure.   I have an appointment in a couple weeks at a reputable dealer (ZG takes his bike there too) to diagnose the issue, and make sure it's not the TPS (should be covered by warranty) , but I don't want to pay dealer prices for something that is not covered by warranty (TB Sync). I'd just as soon spend the money on a vacuum gauge and do it myself if that's what it is.

Anyone else experienced any of the above and found a reliable solution?

« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 06:54:10 pm by Stephen.G.Fiddes »
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Son of Pappy

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue...
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 11:35:55 am »
Sure sounds like the TPS.

No idea, none whatsoever if this will work, but I would try it if for nothing else curiosity.  Turn the bike on, do not start it.  Twist the throttle on full, roll off full, do it twice.  Turn off bike, turn back on and start.  Go for a ride and see if it works.  Report back and tell me I am a motorcycle god, or worthless POS ;)  FWIW, this works on GSs that have a similar problem with the TPS, ECU will read the full on/off position and do a rest to the current values.  Same holds true when calibrating the PCV or PCIII.

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue...
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 12:57:43 pm »
Sure sounds like the TPS.

No idea, none whatsoever if this will work, but I would try it if for nothing else curiosity.  Turn the bike on, do not start it.  Twist the throttle on full, roll off full, do it twice.  Turn off bike, turn back on and start.  Go for a ride and see if it works.  Report back and tell me I am a motorcycle god, or worthless POS ;)  FWIW, this works on GSs that have a similar problem with the TPS, ECU will read the full on/off position and do a rest to the current values.  Same holds true when calibrating the PCV or PCIII.

I am a firm believer in "If it seems stupid but it works, it ain't stupid!"

So far, this isn't looking stupid... I'm a bit blown away...  Granted, My engine was still hot, but there was a noticeable difference between when I parked at taco-hell, and when I left (after doing the procedure twice for good measure)

I will get back to you when the engine is cold (Likely tomorrow morning when I leave for work) and see how it goes.  If it's fixed, I am going to change the thread title and suggest it goes into the FAQ section, as I know this is common!
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Offline Rhino

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue...
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 01:19:03 pm »
Well if it works, SOP will have to bypass "Hero Member" and go directly to "ZGGTR GOD".

Offline jimmymac

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue...
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 01:19:21 pm »
Good luck!
I'll be watching this one.
2010 Connie. No ABS, no TC, no linked brakes. A real bike.
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Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue...
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 06:39:06 pm »
UPDATE:


Just took it for a spin around the block. Engine had 1 bar on the hot-o-meter (AKA the area around the C was dark).   I did a very hard start on it, harder than I ever do... Backed it out of my driveway, started the engine, waited 3 seconds, and started off.  (Normally the shortest I let it warm up is starting the engine and sit on the bike while I'm punching GPS data in and logging my start mileage for the day)

Initially it was hesitant, but it was an appropriate amount of hesitation for a cold engine. Not NEARLY the amount that it would choke up before. Nothing more than I would expect, nothing more than I have experienced on other EFI or Carb'd bikes.   I just feathered the clutch, and it kept right on running, where it definitely would have died before, Even on an uphill start about 10 seconds into riding with a still cold engine) 

After taking the long way through my neighborhood around the block, I hit a curvy area a little harder (for a neighborhood) and the throttle was buttery smooth, through curves that the engine would normally choke up at even hot.  Only "Hesitation" in power was the shaft-drive catching up (similar to a chain picking up the slack, but obv. more-so with the shaft drive)

I am fully confident that this has solved the problem, and will be cancelling my appt at the dealership in a few days (to make sure this actually fixes it)


Thanks SOP!  I guess you are a Motorcycle god!  :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Son of Pappy

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 07:25:39 pm »
Good deal!! ;D  Glad I good be of help and hope the fix is permanent.

It would be nice if others with a similar issue could give it a shot, see how it works for them.

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 07:46:12 pm »
Good deal!! ;D  Glad I good be of help and hope the fix is permanent.

It would be nice if others with a similar issue could give it a shot, see how it works for them.

I would encourage anyone that is less than happy with their throttle response to give it a shot... I know there's a lot of people out there.
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Offline kwakrider

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 02:30:59 am »
This site DELIVERS!!! :salute:

Offline Rhino

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2014, 06:54:44 am »
This site DELIVERS!!! :salute:

+1  :thumbs:

Chet, how did you know this would recalibrate the TPS?

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 12:03:27 pm »
UPDATE 2:

I tried so hard to kill it this morning. Did everything i knew that would cause it to die when i started. It. Kept. Running. 

Throttle response is so much better, bike seems to be running smoother, my butt dyno says it has more power, and SO FAR my MPGs seem to have gone up. Very confidence inspiring having the throttle react exactly as it should.


I dont absolutely hate riding this bike anymore... Because it was not fun before constantly being scared of how it would react with every touch of the throttle. Smooth as butter now!
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Son of Pappy

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2014, 01:08:37 pm »
+1  :thumbs:

Chet, how did you know this would recalibrate the TPS?
An ECU is an ECU, figured if it worked on the GS, maybe it would work here.  I guess you could just call it blind luck or experience :)

Offline RBX QB

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2014, 02:37:31 pm »
Now we're all gonna try this to see what happens.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2014, 02:40:32 pm »
Now we're all gonna try this to see what happens.

Got that right! My throttle response is ok so I don't expect anything but its so simple I'm going to try it anyway before I ride home tonight.

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

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Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 03:08:30 pm »
I mentioned it to the guy at my shop (EDR Performance) and he was blown away. He's gunna try it on the FZ09 when they get another one in because that's notorious for being a rough bike on the throttle. We'll see what happens with that!

He did bring up a very good point, that I'm actually curious on...   "Did the dealer forget to do that when they built the bike out of the crate?"

Now my question is, is this a procedure that Dealers are supposed to do?  Next question, does it get reset when the battery is removed?  All things to ponder...


EDIT: Just talked to the guys at Hillsboro Motosport (the dealer I purchased the bike from) and they were just as blown away as EDR, and will be using that info to help others!  Good Job SOP.   :finger_fing11: :finger_fing11: :finger_fing11: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :chugbeer: :hail: :hail: :hail:


Edit 2:   I just did this with only partially closing the throttle, and it ran like rotten turd again. Super rich too. Re-did it properly and smooth as butter.  Video coming later.

Im seriously absolutely blown away!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:39:40 pm by Stephen.G.Fiddes »
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD