2015 C14 Chat/Changes

[tomp]

The  best improvement for '15 is the lower price point.  $700 savings is nothing to sneeze at in today's economy.  Two competitors, Trophy SE and R1200RT, both had price increases for '15. The widening gap, should make the 14 more appealing in the ST buying pool. 

[Rembrant]

Two competitors, Trophy SE and R1200RT, both had price increases for '15. 

I don't know much about BMW's, so I can't really comment all that much on them, but I have had a couple Triumphs, and there's no way I could consider them worthy competitors to Japanese bikes.
Don't get me wrong, I think Triumph makes some very cool bikes, with fantastic curb appeal, and very cool sounding (and feeling) triple cylinder engines. It's their reliability that I find troubling.
Back when I was hanging out on Triumph forums, I was disturbed by the amount of threads on cracked pistons, burning oil, loose bearings, and faulty electrical components. I saw more than a few comments where guys that go on trips carry oil with them in their side cases. I guess it's all part of the membership to the club...because the bikes have what people call "character" and all/any shortcomings are part of the price one pays to wear those t-shirts...lol.
I do like Triumphs...I like the way most of them look, and the song that triple engine makes is quite cool....I just wouldn't consider them to be reliable bikes....not when comparing to Japanese reliability.

Rem

[tomp]

I don't know much about BMW's, so I can't really comment all that much on them, but I have had a couple Triumphs, and there's no way I could consider them worthy competitors to Japanese bikes.
Don't get me wrong, I think Triumph makes some very cool bikes, with fantastic curb appeal, and very cool sounding (and feeling) triple cylinder engines. It's their reliability that I find troubling.
Back when I was hanging out on Triumph forums, I was disturbed by the amount of threads on cracked pistons, burning oil, loose bearings, and faulty electrical components. I saw more than a few comments where guys that go on trips carry oil with them in their side cases. I guess it's all part of the membership to the club...because the bikes have what people call "character" and all/any shortcomings are part of the price one pays to wear those t-shirts...lol.
I do like Triumphs...I like the way most of them look, and the song that triple engine makes is quite cool....I just wouldn't consider them to be reliable bikes....not when comparing to Japanese reliability.

Rem

I was using the Trophy, because it is an ST bike with all the bells and whistles of most others on the market.  I've owned three different Triumphs, and though I never had a single problem, I never became friends with any of them. 

 The two mentioned bikes were chosen to show that other companies had raised their MSRP's while Kawi had gone down on the C14, even with the added changes and improvements.    tomp

Oh, and until recently, sold Triumphs, BMW's and Kawasaki's, among other brands, and was familiar with the pricing changes.  tp

[martin_14]

I don't know much about BMW's, so I can't really comment all that much on them...

I do, so I think I can 
I haven't had any problem whatsoever with the BMWs that I had (2), but I can't look the other way when hearing the appalling reliability of their shafts or the feeling of their gearboxes. For premium price I expect premium product, not premium marketing. Silly me?

[gPink]

Of course 'Silly you'. How dare you do the research and make an informed intelligent decision after all that money was spent to convince you otherwise. Now swallow the line and wash it down with this koolaid and we won't have to sent you back to camp. 

[VirginiaJim]

I do, so I think I can 
I haven't had any problem whatsoever with the BMWs that I had (2), but I can't look the other way when hearing the appalling reliability of their shafts or the feeling of their gearboxes. For premium price I expect premium product, not premium marketing. Silly me?

Really?

[katata1100]

A different gear ratio for easier starts? I think the better solution is a GUHL like reflash, where you have extra power when taking off, courtesy of not having flies choke off air.

[stevewfl]

that green and flat black color combo is big pimpin'

[rcannon409]

I think most who coudl afford 15,499 would be ok to go at 16,100.

The extra money coudl have gone towards cruise control or better suspension.  A few extra hundred in manufacturing equals several thousands spent on improving.

[maxtog]

I think most who coudl afford 15,499 would be ok to go at 16,100.

The extra money coudl have gone towards cruise control or better suspension.  A few extra hundred in manufacturing equals several thousands spent on improving.

They are not going to add cruise until they change the electronics with an overhaul (I have been saying that for years), and at this point it would be drive-by-wire.    But you are right that aftermarket costs a LOT more than if they add it in.  My bet is (and has been) on the 2016 model...

[VirginiaJim]

Yep, it's about time to start the 2016 thread...

[tomp]

Yep, it's about time to start the 2016 thread...

Hope they don't mess it up when they make changes.  So many "ride by wire" bikes have jerky on/off throttle problems, and sometimes delayed reaction to throttle movements.  Also adding a sound system that can't be heard over city street speeds is all too common.  The fewer electronic doo dads, the better in my way of reasoning. 

[maxtog]

Hope they don't mess it up when they make changes.

Really.  It would SUCK if they changed the dash and got rid of the two large analog dials.  Most all bikes now have a stupid digital-only readout.

So many "ride by wire" bikes have jerky on/off throttle problems,

Actually, I think the C14 already has that problem without drive by wire.  But it is fixed fairly easily and cheaply with a G2 Ergonomics Throttle Tamer.  The problem with drive-by-wire is that it will be FAR more difficult to fix, since it will be programmed that way and will require reprogramming to fix.  And if nobody can or is willing to crack it, there is an issue.  Same with with secondary butterflies- those are rendered obsolete by drive-by-wire and, again, it would require reprogramming to fix.

Also adding a sound system that can't be heard over city street speeds is all too common.

And a waste of time and money.  And just annoys other people (like loud mufflers).  Music needs to be in the helmet where it belongs.

The fewer electronic doo dads, the better in my way of reasoning.

I love electronic doo-dads... when they are done correctly.  Imagine a C14 3gen with moving and self-adjusting LED headlights, super large color display that is customizable,  handlebar mounted multi-control, mirror-mounted turn signals (front/back/side visible), integrated driving lamps, GPS, convenience lighting in mirrors and hard bags, intelligent cruise control, adjustable power suspension, fully adjustable ABS/ linking/engine setting, integrated 2-way communication KIPASS with anti-tamper notification/alarm.   There are so many possibilities of things that could be done well with electronics.

[tomp]

It's funny MAxtog, but I don't sense the throttle to be jerky at all, actually quite smooth response, to my input.  I still have the flys in though, and they, in my opinion , assist in that smoothness.

The electronics are things like ESA with active suspension, Quick shifters, Multi level traction and ABS controls.  Overly sophisticated computers, with dozens of read outs.  The kinds of things that are on the K1600GT/L's that make them cost $10-15,000 more than our C14's.  Almost as bad with the new R1200RT's, too. Ducati is almost as bad with The panegale's and Diavel's. 

All I really want is CRUISE CONTROL, that works as well as Harley's and BMW's.  Both function perfectly.  I've owned both, and do miss it..tomp

[connie14boy]

The only reason KHI is lowering the C-14 price for 2015 models while making subtle changes is to spike the sales volume. It will no doubt further erode resale and make the remaining 2014's hard to move also. Don't get me wrong, I think the C-14 has the best value of any bike on the road, I just don't think a price reduction is the right tactic. It will **** off the people that have already bought the 2014's and most dealers were discounting to begin with- a bad move IMO.

[tomp]

The only reason KHI is lowering the C-14 price for 2015 models while making subtle changes is to spike the sales volume. It will no doubt further erode resale and make the remaining 2014's hard to move also. Don't get me wrong, I think the C-14 has the best value of any bike on the road, I just don't think a price reduction is the right tactic. It will **** off the people that have already bought the 2014's and most dealers were discounting to begin with- a bad move IMO.

Yep, agree.  The dealership where I worked still has '13's, selling for $11.6K.  Who would pay $4K more for the few changes on the '15?  My 1st gear is fine, and I don't need a hole in my windshield.  How many others would see the price difference as worth it?

[maxtog]

It's funny MAxtog, but I don't sense the throttle to be jerky at all, actually quite smooth response, to my input.

I only had the problem in first and maybe second at low speed.  Very common complaint.  I waited far too long to put in the Throttle Tamer.

I still have the flys in though, and they, in my opinion , assist in that smoothness.

OMG, you really need to either remove them or reflash the ECU to mute them.  You won't believe the difference in response.  The only negative is there is some additional intake noise.

The kinds of things that are on the K1600GT/L's that make them cost $10-15,000 more than our C14's.

The primary reason those cost so much is that they have three letters on them....  Although some of the features, like the suspension stuff... that can be expensive.  Computer and electronics are cheap (expensive to design and debug, but the actual equipment is cheap).

[Rembrant]

Yep, agree.  The dealership where I worked still has '13's, selling for $11.6K.  Who would pay $4K more for the few changes on the '15?  My 1st gear is fine, and I don't need a hole in my windshield.  How many others would see the price difference as worth it?

The price difference certainly wouldn't be worth it for me....in fact, I wouldn't upgrade from an 08-09 model either.

Are we calling the 2015 model the "third gen" yet?...lol.

[maxtog]

Are we calling the 2015 model the "third gen" yet?...lol.

I'm not.  It has maybe 15% the significance of the 1gen to 2gen changes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_1400GTR

[tomp]

I'm not.  It has maybe 15% the significance of the 1gen to 2gen changes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_1400GTR

Agree.  Real change came with the huge improvements from the C10 to the C14 Gen l.  So little the same, except they were both two wheel motorized conveyances.   Gen 2 from Gen l, basically changed complaint problems and added TC, ABS, etc to stay  up with the market.  The '15's changes seem rather superfluous, I imagine to current owners of either l or ll  models, not worthy of a Gen name of it's own.  If it had been, Kawi would have pushed the changes harder on the marketplace.

To create a real new Gen lll, the changes need to be on the order of the upgrade between the C10 and the C14, or just leave it alone and continue to be the low price leader in the ST world.