2015 C14 Chat/Changes

[maxtog]

The '15's changes seem rather superfluous,

To me the timing just seems really odd.  I have been convinced for years that 2016 would be the next major Concours revamp (drive-by-wire, cruise, dash, some plastics, headlights, etc) based on what they did with other models, how the ZX changed, design patterns, etc.  Now I am wondering if that is going to be delayed.

[just gone]

GEN 2.1 is warranted for the 2015.

I think the first gear ratio change justifies this. I'm not saying it's a good or bad change, I just think that any change that can't be easily retrofitted to earlier models (not such as {I suspect} the windshield, steering stem seals, perhaps rear suspension would seem to be.) without engine dis-assembly should get some sort of recognition just so newbies don't think that they are all alike. I, like many, suspect that Kawasaki might come out with a special 2016 anniversary model, but then again they may leave it the same for the next ten years. To someone thinking about buying a used model in say 2021 for touring with a loaded roll a home camping trailer, the difference between a used 2014 model and a used 2015 model has significance just because of the gear ratio change.

Even the change in the linked braking seems significant. Second only to the muffler and perhaps lack of a factory cruise control, so many complain here about the intrusiveness of the linked brakes that I find it hard to believe that when Mama Kaw addresses the issue, it is suddenly an insignificant superfluous change?

[tomp]

To me the timing just seems really odd.  I have been convinced for years that 2016 would be the next major Concours revamp (drive-by-wire, cruise, dash, some plastics, headlights, etc) based on what they did with other models, how the ZX changed, design patterns, etc.  Now I am wondering if that is going to be delayed.

The 15 could be just an interim model to keep buyers interested until the real Gen lll can be delivered.  Triumph did it.  They took a great model, the 1050 Sprint ST, and made a few ergo changes and heralded it to the public as the all new and improved Sprint GT.  Then they turned right around and dropped it almost immediately for the Trophy 1200.  The GT model kept buyers talking and interested in Triumph in the ST world, until the Trophy could be presented, then dropped it like a red headed step child.   

I am sure there are engineers and bean counters looking at the Concours, deciding what to do next.  Guess only time will tell.  The 10 and 14 both got a lot of attention and press when released.  This year it's been the H2/H2R.  Perhaps it will be the Concours turn soon.  Maybe a C14R? 

[maxtog]

I think the first gear ratio change justifies this. I'm not saying it's a good or bad change, I just think that any change that can't be easily retrofitted to earlier models[...] without engine dis-assembly should get some sort of recognition just so newbies don't think that they are all alike.

That is a very good point.  Although I do think the transmission is otherwise identical.  So I suspect the only change would be two gears...  in which case one could swap the whole transmission between years or even just the two gears.   Certainly not an EASY change (like a windscreen) but it is hardly like trying to add ABS, traction control, linked brakes, variable grip heaters, all new plastics, frame alterations for mirror mounts, different oil pan, etc, etc (as we saw in gen1->2).  Also, it seems like such an unnecessary and even perhaps even pointless change.  Makes one wonder if they were just looking for something easy and cheap to change just to say "look, it is changed!"

I, like many, suspect that Kawasaki might come out with a special 2016 anniversary model

Yep, so a one-year stopgap seems so very odd. Perhaps a "hold on... a lot more coming... not quite ready..."

Even the change in the linked braking seems significant.

I am a computer guy- so to me a few bytes change in a firmware table seems so very minor (even if the effect is appreciable).  In theory, it should be something that could be changed on the older ABS ECU, if it is at all programmable.  So the programability is probably key.

2.1, perhaps

[just gone]

I am a computer guy- so to me a few bytes change in a firmware table seems so very minor (even if the effect is appreciable).  In theory, it should be something that could be changed on the older ABS ECU, if it is at all programmable.  So the programability is probably key.
2.1, perhaps

And yet whenever software/firmware gets updated it is released with an incremented number or designation not unlike 2.1, is it not?

Kawasaki says they have a whole new ABS module and I think I've read somewhere that it is smaller. Some of the reviews call it a ABS ECU, but looking at the wiring diagram (previous years) it appears that any ABS ECU resides entirely in side the Main ECU and that the "ABS Module" is simply referred to as the "ABS hydraulic unit" which I have always assumed was just lines and electric valves and pump. What I'm saying is that I think it is more than just a few program changes and different master cylinders involved in the brake changes. I guess we won't know for sure until the part numbers come out. I wonder if just changing the color of the plastic reservoirs constitutes "new" master cylinders. 

In rereading the Kawasaki (and second hand reviews) I'm not sure if there has been any real change to the suspension. I've heard it called recalibrated, but I've also heard that it just leaves the factory with more preload dialed in ("The adjustable rear suspension was stiffened on the initial preload setting"), which I guess could be referred to as re-calibrated and barely still be honest and yet skillfully mislead us into thinking that something there has really changed.

I only very recently read (Wikipedia) that the red trouble light has been changed to yellow? Info that I missed somehow, but I have since seen a photo of it. Wow perhaps 2.2?
 Yes I'm joking about the 2.2, I still think that 2.1 is justified.

I know some think that Kawasaki isn't listening to us, but they have made the attempt to fix the windshield, the seat, and the linked brakes that so many have complained of.

The first gear change...?..I don't know where they got that from (Police maybe?), but then I haven't ridden a 2015 around the cones in a parking lot so maybe it is an improvement. Instead of listening to us (many that have purchased a C14 already), perhaps Kawasaki listens to those on other bike's forums where folks say why they didn't buy a C14, or maybe those that traded their C14s in with very low miles?
 The new CATS and the associated ECU updating I can only guess that somewhere in the world where the C14 is marketed that the emissions rules have changed.

[tomp]

I know some think that Kawasaki isn't listening to us, but they have made the attempt to fix the windshield, the seat, and the linked brakes that so many have complained of.

Should actual innovations or simply fixing what should have never been sold in the first place, be the grounds for a generational number change.  Since to sell the bike, KHI must provide it with a windshield, a seat, painted panels, brakes, etc, trading out each, one for one on a new model probably wasn't an expensive investment on their part.  Knowing that, and not wanting to be accused of actually not providing more than was needed, they decided to lower the MSRP, to show the benevolence to their customers. 

Growing up in the 50's every year model change for cars was noticeable.  We knew the difference between a '56 57 58, 59. 60,  for almost two more decades.  That's all gone now.  All cars resemble a suppository, a brick, or a wedge door stop.  Same with motorcycles, today.  From a little distance an '08 C14 and a '15 so resemble each other, if it wasn't for colors and NEW BOLD GRAPHICS, few here could tell what the year was, being seen.  Just some thoughts.  Better than political discussions, anyway.

Oh, the graphics comment was actually pointed at their KLR650 marketing group. 

[maxtog]

Kawasaki says they have a whole new ABS module and I think I've read somewhere that it is smaller. Some of the reviews call it a ABS ECU, but looking at the wiring diagram (previous years) it appears that any ABS ECU resides entirely in side the Main ECU and that the "ABS Module" is simply referred to as the "ABS hydraulic unit" which I have always assumed was just lines and electric valves and pump.

Hmm.  Now I am even more interested to know exactly what has changed other than the table in the firmware.  Based on the service manual, I was fairly sure it is a separate computer, not part of the main ECU (it shows having a separate connector).   It looks like the ABS "computer" and hydraulic unit are the same thing.  I am attaching a photo of the diagram.

What I'm saying is that I think it is more than just a few program changes

That is, of course, possible.  But if all that has changed is the "linking effect", which could be translated as the amount of linking and when it is linked, that can be as simple as a table change without a single line of code change and certainly no hardware changes.  Like you said, I guess we will see (hopefully).

[just gone]

.... or simply fixing what should have never been sold in the first place, ...

..so this is a thread about BMW drivetrain problems?   

Growing up in the 50's every year model change for cars was noticeable.  We knew the difference between a '56 57 58, 59. 60,  for almost two more decades. 

Yeah, me too. Being a kid with a kid's logic, I recall after many of the '58s came out with double headlights that the '59s would come out with triples. I didn't
really have a grasp of the high beam low beam concept then. We kids all thought the highest number on the speedometer had some significance to actual top speed back then. 

Being an owner of a Suzuki DR650 which hasn't changed since the stone age (except for colors and graphics), the changes for the C14 seem somewhat regular, but I'm going to shut up now lest I be mistaken for a mama Kaw shill.

[tomp]

..

Yeah, me too. Being a kid with a kid's logic, I recall after many of the '58s came out with double headlights that the '59s would come out with triples. I didn't
really have a grasp of the high beam low beam concept then. We kids all thought the highest number on the speedometer had some significance to actual top speed back then. 

Check out this site.  Now you can have it all, in one. . .tp

http://www.n2amotors.com/pdfs/789buyerpacket.pdf

[just gone]

Hmm.  Now I am even more interested to know exactly what has changed other than the table in the firmware.  Based on the service manual, I was fairly sure it is a separate computer, not part of the main ECU (it shows having a separate connector).   It looks like the ABS "computer" and hydraulic unit are the same thing.  I am attaching a photo of the diagram.

 

.... but looking at the wiring diagram (previous years) it appears that any ABS ECU resides entirely in side the Main ECU and that the "ABS Module" is simply referred to as the "ABS hydraulic unit" which I have always assumed was just lines and electric valves and pump. .

            ↑   


I've done some more research, and I think what I said earlier about the ABS ECU being in the Main ECU is a bunch of hooey, or in keeping with the situation (season) a bunch of Humbug. I looked back at the '09 ABS wiring diagram and the wheel speed sensors aren't even hooked up to the main ECU so that would mean that all of the brains of the ABS are actually in the (not so aptly named) "ABS Hydraulic Unit".  Apparently the later years have the wheel speed sensors hooked into the Main ECU just for the traction control.

Thanks Max, the diagram you posted from the shop manual made me rethink as there just were not enough wires going to the ECU in that diagram.   

[Rembrant]

I've done some more research, and I think what I said earlier about the ABS ECU being in the Main ECU is a bunch of hooey, or in keeping with the situation (season) a bunch of Humbug. I looked back at the '09 ABS wiring diagram and the wheel speed sensors aren't even hooked up to the main ECU so that would mean that all of the brains of the ABS are actually in the (not so aptly named) "ABS Hydraulic Unit".  Apparently the later years have the wheel speed sensors hooked into the Main ECU just for the traction control.

Yeah, the ABS ECU is actually part of the whole ABS hydraulic module. It is separate from the FI ECU.

When you look under the seat of your bike, just to the right of the main ECU and relay pack on top of it, you'll see two diagnostic connectors stuffed in a foam block. One is for the main FI ECU, and the other is for the ABS ECU. I think the first gen C14 models actually had three plugs there?...I can't remember, but the second gen C14 only has two.

Rem

[katata1100]

Too bad they didn't fix the high beam indicator (make it dimmer). WHen using the high beams, that things is like a blue laser, burning into my eye.

[maxtog]

Too bad they didn't fix the high beam indicator (make it dimmer). WHen using the high beams, that things is like a blue laser, burning into my eye.

+1

[texrider]

The '15 is sweet 
I'd have to pick through the sweeter leftover deals first, though!

[gPink]

Hard to stretch a buck fifty more than two and a half hours.

[VirginiaJim]

I'd die of boredom trying to do that.  Average day for me is 300+ unless I really needed to get somewheres.

[RBX QB]

" This past weekend we took a fairly long one day (roughly 150 miles) ride....."   

Yeah... but these are the type of guys who post "low mileage" bikes for sale on CL... you know, the 2006 with 1200 miles on it.

[Deziner]

150 miles isn't even far enough to ride before breakfast. It's 120 round trip just for me to deliver parts. More often than not,  I can't clear my head with one tank of gas.

[martin_14]

More often than not,  I can't clear my head with one tank of gas.

+1
amazing how the truth can be written.

[Rhino]

More often than not,  I can't clear my head with one tank of gas.

+2 Well said!