Author Topic: Clutch will not engage.  (Read 3341 times)

Offline cc_ryder

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Clutch will not engage.
« on: March 08, 2015, 03:26:57 pm »
On my last ride I was having trouble down shifting. If I waited until I stopped, I could not shift into neutral without partial operation of the clutch. It got worse on the way home. If I stopped in first gear the bike would lunge forward with the clutch engaged.
On inspection the reservoir was full but fluid dirty. I assumed a seal was worn (2001, 44000 Mi) so I ordered kits for the master and slave units. Disassembled and cleaned everything, found the main seal in the master cylinder slightly worn.  Reassembled and bleed the system. No joy was to be found. Shift into first OK, engage clutch unable to stop drive wheel. Rebleed with vacuum at slave unit, still no joy! Checked slave for proper function. Clamped slave cylinder and applied maximum presser to clutch lever. Hard as, well noncompressible brake fluid. Still unable to engage clutch!
I know someone has had this problem or if not, does anyone have an idea what is going on?
I do not have experience with this clutch. Could the plates be stuck together? I did also notice that the oil level is slightly higher than normal. Could there be a gasket leak and coolant in the oil? Please help it is BIKE WEEK and I am bikeless.
ROK
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Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 01:11:51 pm »
44k is pretty low for a worn out clutch, but not unheard of.  "Stuck" disks (that I have seen) usually occur from long periods or sitting or storage.  Usually when a clutch wears, you get 6 speeds of neutral.  You said you rebuilt the MC and slave.  If you break the bleed open at the slave does fluid come out?  This would make sure the line is clear and the MC can flow fluid to the slave.  I guess you could unbolt the slave to see if it can move the piston by SLIGHTLY pulling on the lever.  There is also a tapered shaft that goes in only one way in the slave.  If it could be put in backwards maybe it is binding and not actuating the clutch?  After that, maybe the next step is to pull the right side cover to see if the clutch is actuating?

IMHO-
The star spring usually makes the clutch kind of feel like it has a double-bump in it when pulled in (like when coming to a stop), but it generally still works.  If a tab or two have broke off, one could possibly wedge itself into a spot to prevent the clutch from disengaging.  This would require the right cover to be removed.

When the oil breaks down the clutch gives a pretty clacky feeling when shifting.  If gas is in the oil (from eminent hydrolock) it would probably still have the clacky feeling but not prevent disengaging.  Coolant would probably do the same thing.

Keep us posted.
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Offline cc_ryder

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 04:13:55 pm »
RFH87_Connie, The master cylinder and slave are working fine. The slave piston operates smoothly and there is no air in the system. The clutch pushrod was not removed so it is in the correct orientation. I do not believe the clutch is worn out as I have not noticed any slipping.   I will remove the clutch cover for a visual inspection.
ROK
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Offline Jim __

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 07:36:38 am »
I'm assuming everything was put back together correctly.  I went through this misery when I cleaned my master and slave out the first time.  I bled a full bottle through the system and it still didn't work.  I really hope this is your problem and it will only take a few minutes to try.

Make sure the master is almost full and the lid is back on the reservoir (you don't have to screw it down). 
Turn the handle bars to the right.
Set the clutch lever adjustment knob to "1" for maximum master cylinder  piston travel.
Squeeze and hold the lever fully, like normal, and open/close the bleed valve.
LET THE CLUTCH LEVER "SNAP" BACK.  If you don't let it snap back, you will never get the air out of the master cylinder.  Also, if the lid is not on the reservoir,  that snap back action will launch a stream of brake fluid into the air.
Do this a couple of times and the lever should start to require more effort towards the end of the stroke.
I bleed a reservoir full of fluid after this point and I'm good to go.

Offline Jim __

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2015, 11:21:25 am »
I just reread your original post.  So with the slave clamped, you could only squeeze the clutch lever a little bit, correct?  Then it's not air in the master cylinder.  Sorry I couldn't have been more help.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2015, 03:19:09 pm »
A migrated piece of a star spring can assuradly cause this symptom.

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Offline toon

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 02:59:42 pm »
Just experienced this exact problem. Tab off the star spring was keeping the clutch open.
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Offline Hankntx

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2020, 10:18:14 am »
..."44k is pretty low for a worn out clutch, but not unheard of.  "Stuck" disks (that I have seen) usually occur from long periods or sitting or storage.  Usually when a clutch wears, you get 6 speeds of neutral.  You said you rebuilt the MC and slave.  If you break the bleed open at the slave does fluid come out?  This would make sure the line is clear and the MC can flow fluid to the slave.  I guess you could unbolt the slave to see if it can move the piston by SLIGHTLY pulling on the lever.  There is also a tapered shaft that goes in only one way in the slave.  If it could be put in backwards maybe it is binding and not actuating the clutch?  After that, maybe the next step is to pull the right side cover to see if the clutch is actuating?"

Is it possible to put 'the tapered shaft" in backwards?

I had to take the clutch slave cyl.  apart and now wonder if this is my issue.
I now have a clutch that does not seem to Fully engage. Disengages just fine -- but roll on the gas and it will rev higher and takes a while for the speed to catch up./
Almost as if it was not being fully engaged.

Also,  when this (slave cylinder) was put back together the first time - the piston cup was seated backwards, of course it immediately leaked and had to break apart to assemble correctly.
Could this action have damaged the clutch?


Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2020, 03:07:04 pm »
Not to hijack this thread, but since it hasn’t been that busy...

I did a search to see if I could find anything on “clutch shudder” and came up empty.  I bought my ‘09 with about 38k on the odometer, and this clutch has shuddered since.  When it’s cold, just after warm-up, I like to do figure eights, which requires slipping the clutch in the gray area to lock the steering.  My bike shakes, rattles and rolls through the whole process.  If I take off from a start, it doesn’t shudder at all, but if the bike is at a slow roll, clutch in, in first gear and I let the clutch out to take off, it shudders every time. 

Has anyone experienced this?  I just figured I had a warped flywheel. 

(I know the search whisperer, Max, will probably post five links regarding my issue.  Luv ya Max!  :thumbs:)
2009 GTR 1400 ABS, 48k miles, AMSOIL synthetic 10W-40 (since new), AMSOIL synthetic 75W-90 final drive (since new). Helibar Horizons, Oxford heated grips, V-Stream windscreen, Mountain Runner Flash, Brian’s low fuel eliminator farkle, ST2 smart brake module and smart turn system, Two Brothers Black Series M5 w/P1X decibel killer.

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2020, 04:26:34 pm »
There is no flywheel to speak of so no way do you have a warped flywheel.. you do have a clutch pack in a clutch basket.... shuddering on a Concourse  can mean the clutch plates are burnt and warped.. Unless this bike was drag raced I doubt  that your clutch plates are that bad... but it is possible. On the center stand with the engine off and in neutral... how does the back wheel feel when you turn it by hand... no rear brake dragging?  no wobble or play in the rear wheel  bearings..no binding? I am thinking you going to have to inspect your clutch pack unless some else has more ideas.

 
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
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Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2020, 08:36:27 pm »
There is no flywheel to speak of so no way do you have a warped flywheel.. you do have a clutch pack in a clutch basket.... shuddering on a Concourse  can mean the clutch plates are burnt and warped.. Unless this bike was drag raced I doubt  that your clutch plates are that bad... but it is possible. On the center stand with the engine off and in neutral... how does the back wheel feel when you turn it by hand... no rear brake dragging?  no wobble or play in the rear wheel  bearings..no binding? I am thinking you going to have to inspect your clutch pack unless some else has more ideas.
I am completely uneducated when it comes to the clutch assembly of this bike (Obviously). No wobble, no binding.  The previous owner probably did a lot of slow work (law enforcement stuff) on the clutch, which could get it hot.  I never asked him about it as it hasn’t been an issue for me these last 20k miles.  I just thought it was inherent with this bike until I rode my friend’s ‘11 and thought “Wow! This clutch is smooth!”.  Maybe I’ll replace it down the road if it ever worsens, but I’ll most likely wait until it’s shot. 

Thanks for the response, Mike.
2009 GTR 1400 ABS, 48k miles, AMSOIL synthetic 10W-40 (since new), AMSOIL synthetic 75W-90 final drive (since new). Helibar Horizons, Oxford heated grips, V-Stream windscreen, Mountain Runner Flash, Brian’s low fuel eliminator farkle, ST2 smart brake module and smart turn system, Two Brothers Black Series M5 w/P1X decibel killer.

Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2020, 06:56:03 am »
Just watched Steve’s youtube vid on the slipper clutch function.  Most illuminating.  Also watched a vid of a C10 clutch replacement.  Consider me youtube educated!  Ha!
2009 GTR 1400 ABS, 48k miles, AMSOIL synthetic 10W-40 (since new), AMSOIL synthetic 75W-90 final drive (since new). Helibar Horizons, Oxford heated grips, V-Stream windscreen, Mountain Runner Flash, Brian’s low fuel eliminator farkle, ST2 smart brake module and smart turn system, Two Brothers Black Series M5 w/P1X decibel killer.

Offline cc_ryder

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2020, 06:23:06 am »
Sorry I did not post the outcome on my clutch. I see people are still replying. I rebuilt the clutch with a kit from Myrphs. Installed new star springs, friction disk and coil springs. Works like new. Every thing looked like new except the star springs had a few fractures, but were in tack. The friction disks were only worn a few thousands. I am thinking one or more of the coil springs were weak and causing uneven pressure. Thanks for all the help.
ROK
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Clutch will not engage.
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2020, 01:24:33 pm »
Sorry I did not post the outcome on my clutch. I see people are still replying. I rebuilt the clutch with a kit from Myrphs. Installed new star springs, friction disk and coil springs. Works like new. Every thing looked like new except the star springs had a few fractures, but were in tack. The friction disks were only worn a few thousands. I am thinking one or more of the coil springs were weak and causing uneven pressure. Thanks for all the help.
If you had a crack in one of  the star springs.. just one crack.. the clutch pack will bounce back and forth when you are  trying to slip the clutch on purpose.  That was your problem... cracked star spring.
If you still have fuel in the tank, you are not lost yet
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle