Author Topic: Electrical issue.....  (Read 7996 times)

Offline KevinRLi

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Electrical issue.....
« on: September 25, 2015, 08:45:46 pm »
So this is a bit of an odd issue and I'll try to explain it as best I can. 2012 C14. I installed an aftermarket tail light with integrated directional. Works great. No issues. I have a givi V46 top case with an admore lighting kit installed. Also works great. No issues. Brake light works, directionals work. All was good in lighting land... Then I bought a brake light flasher and all went to PooP! It worked when I first put it in and then stopped working all together a few days later. Found out it was for LED only which is what I have but I think because of the admore lighting kit I'm drawing more than it's rated for. Ok no big deal I'll just remove it. Well with it removed the admore kit no longer has a functioning brake light and when I hit my right directional the brake light in the givi blinks in opposite cadence. Left blinker is fine. Driving me nuts! I have a feeling it has something to do with the way everything is grounded but I'm not an electrical guru. At the moment I just cut the brake light wire going to the admore kit and it's just lit up with running lights at the moment. Ideally I'd like it to function as a brake light too. Any help / advice would be appreciated. Thanks


Offline Richard. Wales UK

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2015, 09:39:59 am »

Hi

It sounds like the add on brake lights have failed, and blown the flash unit?

Richard

Offline 2talltim

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2015, 10:10:36 am »
Not trying to sound like an ass(yet im going to). But I never under stood when people do unnecessary mods to bikes and or cars for either appearance or performance upgrades. When all it ussually does is kill the reliability of said vehicle component. Only mods i do are for comfort or to fix a know issue. I could really care less how it looks or if its the fastest one. But that's just my thoughts to each their own i guess. Im saying this because im assuming the tail light was changes on pure looks alone(i could be wrong there too)

Anyway sorry you having issues, and sorry i cant give you any advise im good with tracking down wiring issues but im a hands on kind of guy hard for me to explain over the interwez.


Offline maxtog

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2015, 10:34:21 am »
Not trying to sound like an ass(yet im going to). But I never under stood when people do unnecessary mods to bikes and or cars for either appearance or performance upgrades. When all it ussually does is kill the reliability of said vehicle component. Only mods i do are for comfort or to fix a know issue. I could really care less how it looks or if its the fastest one. But that's just my thoughts to each their own i guess. Im saying this because im assuming the tail light was changes on pure looks alone(i could be wrong there too)

I *hate* messing with the electrical system, since you are right- unless it is done really carefully and well, it can and will lead to a less reliable system.  However, for some of us (me included) the non-comfort mods are usually about safety.  And no other mod is more about safety than visibility.  And no other visibility mod is more useful than lighting.  And the most effective of those would be more and/or a modulated brake light(s).  So this is going to absolutely be done on ANY bike I have.  And I will try to take the time to do it right.  My second most important safety mod was turning the front turn signals into running lights by reversing them (they blink off instead of blinking on).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2015, 01:04:39 pm »
Max, don't you have a thread on the front turn signal mod?
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2015, 01:37:04 pm »
This is actually a pretty well known problem; I discovered it quite a few years ago when I put that same tail light on a C-14 and the Rostra CC would no longer work. :-(

This is what's happening: when the brake light is off, the new taillight assembly puts about 8 volts on the brake wire. If there is nothing else connected to that taillight, all is well. But if anything else such as aux. lights, a cruise control, etc. is connected, it picks up that 8 volts and <usually> senses it as 'ON' but cannot draw enough current to actually turn on.

The fix is to put a diode in line with the brake light line between the new taillight and everything else. The diode will prevent the anything / everything else on the brake circuit (all of which will be aftermarket farkles because Kawasaki only uses the brake light on that circuit) from being back- fed (Boys!) any current.

Brian

So this is a bit of an odd issue and I'll try to explain it as best I can. 2012 C14. I installed an aftermarket tail light with integrated directional. Works great. No issues. I have a givi V46 top case with an admore lighting kit installed. Also works great. No issues. Brake light works, directionals work. All was good in lighting land... Then I bought a brake light flasher and all went to PooP! It worked when I first put it in and then stopped working all together a few days later. Found out it was for LED only which is what I have but I think because of the admore lighting kit I'm drawing more than it's rated for. Ok no big deal I'll just remove it. Well with it removed the admore kit no longer has a functioning brake light and when I hit my right directional the brake light in the givi blinks in opposite cadence. Left blinker is fine. Driving me nuts! I have a feeling it has something to do with the way everything is grounded but I'm not an electrical guru. At the moment I just cut the brake light wire going to the admore kit and it's just lit up with running lights at the moment. Ideally I'd like it to function as a brake light too. Any help / advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2015, 03:22:42 pm »
Max, don't you have a thread on the front turn signal mod?


Yep  http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236.0
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline KevinRLi

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2015, 05:19:27 pm »
This is actually a pretty well known problem; I discovered it quite a few years ago when I put that same tail light on a C-14 and the Rostra CC would no longer work. :-(

This is what's happening: when the brake light is off, the new taillight assembly puts about 8 volts on the brake wire. If there is nothing else connected to that taillight, all is well. But if anything else such as aux. lights, a cruise control, etc. is connected, it picks up that 8 volts and <usually> senses it as 'ON' but cannot draw enough current to actually turn on.

The fix is to put a diode in line with the brake light line between the new taillight and everything else. The diode will prevent the anything / everything else on the brake circuit (all of which will be aftermarket farkles because Kawasaki only uses the brake light on that circuit) from being back- fed (Boys!) any current.

Brian

I knew it was something crossed or back fed somewhere along the lines and I knew someone on here would be like Oh Yeah I know this one! Ha... When everything was working properly I had the safest C14 a$$ on the road! The whole butt end of the bike was flashing when I hit the brakes and directionals half the bike blinked. Now for the $64,000 question. What's a diode and how would one install said diode?  :loco:

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2015, 06:10:17 pm »
A diode is a one- way valve for current (electricity). This is a basic explanation I think: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/diodes

You cut the  brake light wire, put the diode in- between the wire where you cut it and then solder it in on both sides. Or you could use crimps on both sides. The cover it with heat shrink tubing or worst- case, electrical tape (but do a good job 'cause you kinda' need that brake circuit).

Now where to get a diode.... well, you can get them by the onesies or twosies at Radio Shack for a reasonable price. But RShack went belly-  up and a lot of stores are closed. The good news is that they are less than a penny a piece; the bad news is that you gotta' buy a bunch of them and pay shipping. Tell you what, I will send you a diode. Just send me you contact info. (name, street address, etc.) and before you can count how many protons there are in a Couloumb, it will be in your mailbox.

By the way, as a diode is a one- way device, it must be installed facing the right way. If not, nothing bad will happen in this instance but the brake light will not work. The right way is with the band on the diode facing the brake light side of the circuit, not on the side going back into the bike's harness.

All C-14's are the safest motorcycles possible as they are protected by the security envelope and everlasting goodness of KiPass.  ;)

Brian

I knew it was something crossed or back fed somewhere along the lines and I knew someone on here would be like Oh Yeah I know this one! Ha... When everything was working properly I had the safest C14 a$$ on the road! The whole butt end of the bike was flashing when I hit the brakes and directionals half the bike blinked. Now for the $64,000 question. What's a diode and how would one install said diode?  :loco:
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline KevinRLi

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2015, 06:34:00 pm »
A diode is a one- way valve for current (electricity). This is a basic explanation I think: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/diodes

You cut the  brake light wire, put the diode in- between the wire where you cut it and then solder it in on both sides. Or you could use crimps on both sides. The cover it with heat shrink tubing or worst- case, electrical tape (but do a good job 'cause you kinda' need that brake circuit).

Now where to get a diode.... well, you can get them by the onesies or twosies at Radio Shack for a reasonable price. But RShack went belly-  up and a lot of stores are closed. The good news is that they are less than a penny a piece; the bad news is that you gotta' buy a bunch of them and pay shipping. Tell you what, I will send you a diode. Just send me you contact info. (name, street address, etc.) and before you can count how many protons there are in a Couloumb, it will be in your mailbox.

By the way, as a diode is a one- way device, it must be installed facing the right way. If not, nothing bad will happen in this instance but the brake light will not work. The right way is with the band on the diode facing the brake light side of the circuit, not on the side going back into the bike's harness.

All C-14's are the safest motorcycles possible as they are protected by the security envelope and everlasting goodness of KiPass.  ;)

Brian

Brian you are a true gentleman and thank you! You meet the nicest people on the forums! A few bad eggs here and there but hey that's life. We have a couple of Radio Shacks which as per the store locator are still open close by. Let me check them out first before you're running around sending me a diode. I'll know tomorrow if they're belly up around here. Too bad you're not making it to the fall rally. Still a few good eggs over there.

Offline gPink

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2015, 10:05:47 am »
If you can find an open Radio Shack, buy the three (3) amp diode in the blister pack; there may be two diodes in there. It is bigger than what you need but much easier to handle / solder. And there is no downside to going bigger on a diode (in any usual circumstances).

But if not, it is really not a big deal- I have the diodes and I can just stick one in an envelope and send it along. You (and everyone else of course) can get them from an electrical house supplier but you have to open an account and then pay the minimum shipping charge to get the <virtually> free diode.

The fall rally- yep, going to miss that one, and I especially like the hosts Terry and Scotty. Have them tell you the 'upper decker' story- great stuff! In fact, I like that the people there so much, I was even considering going for the days of the rally, although of course not participating in the actual rally itself in any way, shape or form. But events here have my undivided attention and it just is not going to happen for Andrea and me this year. :-(

Brian

Brian you are a true gentleman and thank you! You meet the nicest people on the forums! A few bad eggs here and there but hey that's life. We have a couple of Radio Shacks which as per the store locator are still open close by. Let me check them out first before you're running around sending me a diode. I'll know tomorrow if they're belly up around here. Too bad you're not making it to the fall rally. Still a few good eggs over there.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline KevinRLi

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 01:53:57 pm »
Much to my surprise my local radio shack was open. Looking as the diode drawer I grabbed a "12volt" diode. Forget the number but yes it was in a 2 pack and it worked! Put it on the brake line and no more wonky directionals. A gentleman and scholar sir! Thank you for your help.

Yeah I know you're not too far from Lake George but I saw in the forums you have your hands full at home. Best of luck in getting all that sorted! Next time our paths cross the beers are on me!   :chugbeer:

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 02:08:39 pm »
knowing Brian, he's expecting that beer tonight... because he wants to watch. the eclipse of the "blood moon", so better grab good beer and get a mooooovin....hehheheheheheh

and be careful... dat boy always carries a straight razah in his boot....an itz sharp....he cutz 3 ways, long, smoothe, an' continuos... 8) 8)


man, I miss some of youse guys seriously...

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Offline KevinRLi

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 02:15:48 pm »
knowing Brian, he's expecting that beer tonight... because he wants to watch. the eclipse of the "blood moon", so better grab good beer and get a mooooovin....hehheheheheheh

and be careful... dat boy always carries a straight razah in his boot....an itz sharp....he cutz 3 ways, long, smoothe, an' continuos... 8) 8)


man, I miss some of youse guys seriously...

I know all about his razor fetish... Watched him shave the Pope at the Tennessee National. Ha!! And then someone opened a can of decaying flesh outside the hotel!!!! And these crazy Europeans ate it!!!!! Nightmares!!!

Offline just gone

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2015, 03:52:34 pm »
I know all about his razor fetish... Watched him shave the Rev Pope at the Tennessee National. Ha!! And then someone opened a can of decaying flesh outside the hotel!!!! And these crazy Europeans (and one crazy Texan) ate it!!!!! Nightmares!!!

FIFY
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 04:34:11 pm by fartymarty »

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2015, 04:01:59 pm »
Hey, that is like a Freudian slip- I did not shave 'The Pope', I shaved the reverend. Much, much lower pay grade.  :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

But hey, we all had a touch of that stuff Ted (Connie Rider) brought- last time I smelled that, I was cleaning paint brushes. I passed on the rotten fish altogether but did hear the stories. Wonder if the property values in that corner of TN dropped a bit last June?

Brian

I know all about his razor fetish... Watched him shave the Pope at the Tennessee National. Ha!! And then someone opened a can of decaying flesh outside the hotel!!!! And these crazy Europeans ate it!!!!! Nightmares!!!
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Electrical issue.....
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2015, 04:12:48 pm »
Thanks for the kind words, and I am glad it worked out for you (finding the diode, getting it installed and eliminating your problem).

Lake George is about 4 hours but it may as well be the far side of the moon; I am up to my neck in engineers and lawyers and architects, OH MY! No whining though, that is what Scotch is for :-) And no Rich, no beer tonight- my plans are to chemically process a wee dram of Balvenie Doublewood and keep my inner sanctum safe from those who would see it penetrated (Easy Boys, Girls and every last one of you insurance agents!).

Brian

Much to my surprise my local radio shack was open. Looking as the diode drawer I grabbed a "12volt" diode. Forget the number but yes it was in a 2 pack and it worked! Put it on the brake line and no more wonky directionals. A gentleman and scholar sir! Thank you for your help.

Yeah I know you're not too far from Lake George but I saw in the forums you have your hands full at home. Best of luck in getting all that sorted! Next time our paths cross the beers are on me!   :chugbeer:
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com