Author Topic: ECU flashing now available  (Read 107948 times)

Offline Throttle 8

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Country: ca
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2015, 11:39:36 am »
I have one more question for Steve. I apologize if it has been asked already and I haven't seen it.
Does your flash lift the 155 mph limiter off of the 2010+ models? Not a real big deal, but artificial govenors have always bugged me.
2014 C14
2000 ZX12R Ninja

Offline Cold Streak

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
  • Country: us
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2015, 01:11:01 pm »
Quote
The problem is that our riding season in North Dakota is over. It is too short to be sending the ecu away to be flashed even with a fast turn around.
Wayne

Wouldn't now be the best time to do it, when you can't ride anyway?  I did mine when I couldn't ride for a week or so.  Then got to experience it for the last 3 weeks of the season in MN.  I was going to wait and have it done over the winter otherwise.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2015, 02:49:40 pm »
I have one more question for Steve. I apologize if it has been asked already and I haven't seen it.
Does your flash lift the 155 mph limiter off of the 2010+ models? Not a real big deal, but artificial govenors have always bugged me.

 Yes I can, but it needs to be specifically requested. Steve

Offline kzz1king

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2015, 03:17:49 pm »
I agree, but as posted above I would not get to know how it feels stock.
Wayne


Wouldn't now be the best time to do it, when you can't ride anyway?  I did mine when I couldn't ride for a week or so.  Then got to experience it for the last 3 weeks of the season in MN.  I was going to wait and have it done over the winter otherwise.
2010 CONCOURS
1974 Z-1

Offline fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1534
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2015, 11:48:33 pm »
Oh, you absolutely want to ride it quite a bit before having a Steve or Ghul ECU flash. Otherwise, you will have no appreciation for how nice the changes are.

I can second this with a two thumbs up! :goodpost:

 I wish I had done so before the Guhl reflash I had done. I went riding after the reflash and was thinking about that story of the emperor's clothes. With all of the rave reviews at the time I didn't think it would be necessary to run rollon response tests before the reflash. I did some back to back roll-ons at the same place using eco mode and then Guhls reflash mode and yes the Guhl reflash did better but after reaching say 3500-3700 rpm not much if any difference on my seat of the pants dyno. I had no real sense that anything had been done to my ecu other than a sticker and an etched number. I'm going to hold off on getting this one a bit. I'm kinda worried that I might be one of those folks that Steve mentioned in another thread that don't notice anything (insensitive ass like my wife says), anyway if or when I get Steve's reflash of my Guhl reflash I'm going to be more interested in the roll off response (smooth baby smooth) than I am in the roll on response. Even I should be able to notice a controlled reduction of power as compared to the off switch I seem to have now.

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8171
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2015, 05:59:15 am »
I wish I had done so before the Guhl reflash I had done. I went riding after the reflash and was thinking about that story of the emperor's clothes. With all of the rave reviews at the time I didn't think it would be necessary to run rollon response tests before the reflash. I did some back to back roll-ons at the same place using eco mode and then Guhls reflash mode and yes the Guhl reflash did better but after reaching say 3500-3700 rpm not much if any difference on my seat of the pants dyno. I had no real sense that anything had been done to my ecu other than a sticker and an etched number. I'm going to hold off on getting this one a bit. I'm kinda worried that I might be one of those folks that Steve mentioned in another thread that don't notice anything (insensitive ass like my wife says),

We had a few such posts in previous/old threads, which most of us found absolutely fascinating (since I just can't imagine how one can't tell the difference, it is pretty dramatic).  Lots of theories, no clear answers.  Probably has to do with how it is being ridden, what the expectations are, and how observant one is.  To me, the changes are most noticeable at mid to high-but-not-WOT (spirited to very spirited) throttle at lower and mid RPM's.  People that tend to stay in the higher RPM's are not going to appreciate/notice the changes as much.

Quote
   anyway if or when I get Steve's reflash of my Guhl reflash I'm going to be more interested in the roll off response (smooth baby smooth) than I am in the roll on response. Even I should be able to notice a controlled reduction of power as compared to the off switch I seem to have now.

If the change from stock to Ghul is huge, the change from Ghul to Steve is going to be minor.  I am not saying Steve's isn't better, but Ghul got all the low-hanging fruit, and there was a lot of it.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2015, 07:25:01 am »
Well, I have studied all the dyno charts, I have ridden guhl flashed bikes, and also flashed a bike that had a Guhl flash, and rode it pre-post my flash, I have the guhl flash maps from the bike I re-flashed, so I can explain some things.

 The things I'm going to state here are factual, I have the data, so not based on opinion.

 1)  Low rpm power, up to 5000 rpm, they are both going to be very close to each other at 100% throttle.

  2)  The Shoodaben flash is sharper to respond at light to part throttle, and there isn't even a hint of hesitation to throttle input.

 3) Peak power- Guhl gained 1.5HP over stock at peak HP. Shoodaben gained 14 hp. The dyno charts for both are available, see it for yourself.

 4) the Shoodaben flash is definitely going to get the nod for light throttle fuel economy.

  5) Our maps in some places are surprisingly similar but there are other maps I've done significant work on the Guhl left untouched.

 6) Guhl did this work 4 years ago. He blazed the trail, and hopefully has been rewarded for it. As I understand it sport touring isn't his niche, he's moved on and is really working with the zx 14r and h2's now. Not my thing. I wish him the best success with that, and respect that he was the first to offer c-14 owners an option to the somewhat lousy tuning the bike was saddled with.

 Steve

 

 

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2015, 08:04:19 am »
I'll be sending mine to you in a few weeks...
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2016 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home.

Offline kwakrider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: za
  • Black- 2009
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2015, 08:47:15 am »
I'll be sending mine to you in a few weeks...

Good man, now...while the ECU is away, how about those...you know, those "things" in a box, on a shelf, in the garage? Any chance?  ;D

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2015, 09:20:35 am »
They are aging like fine wine...
"LOCTITE┬«"  The original thread locker...  #11  2016 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! 2008 C14 Moved on to a new home.

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8171
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2015, 09:23:23 pm »
2)  The Shoodaben flash is sharper to respond at light to part throttle, and there isn't even a hint of hesitation to throttle input.

I can confirm that although the Ghul flash did wonders, there are a few places that have a little hesitation.  It is a LOT less than stock, but not perfect.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2015, 04:39:52 am »
I can confirm that although the Ghul flash did wonders, there are a few places that have a little hesitation.  It is a LOT less than stock, but not perfect.

 And this is what I'm talking about - you simply cannot pick up on these issues with dyno tuning alone. there was a reason I mentioned the hesitations, it's because I've experienced them in the gulh mapping.

    The other part of that is that most folks don't understand tuning, so they don't know what is possible and not possible. There's no reason to accept flat spots or hesitations; I personally won't. OTOH most folks don't know what they're feeling or how to put it into words so that doesn't help when trying to diagnose a tuning issue. The other part of this is that everyone seems to think tuning is strictly a/f ratio, and that's just not the case. Steve

Offline fartymarty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1534
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2015, 01:40:42 pm »
Couple/three/four questions Steve:

1. If I send my ECU in for a reflash from you, could you check my current Guhl flash against the one(s) you have on file to compare it before you reflash it? (with a follow up email on your findings, I just need to confirm that I'm an unfeeling ass derriere)

2. Assuming that for some reason I wanted the old engine braking "feel" (I don't know why, maybe I'm fatigued after a long day of riding and I just want to get to the hotel but I have a long winding mountainous downhill yet ahead of me) couldn't I simply switch to ECO mode to return to the same old engine braking?

3. The words "smooth" can mean different things for different folks, I'm looking to eliminate the "off" switch feeling I get when trying to simply throttle back a bit. Regardless of whether my insensitive derriere can feel it, that is one of the things you feel you've achieved with your reflash, correct?

4. Guhl used to say that for only the price of shipping they would reflash back to stock if the owner requested it. You too?..or no? (Why would anyone want that?...I don't know, maybe taking it in for warranty work and one doesn't want to have the flash on the bike to let the dealer get their knickers in a twist and deny coverage?)

Thanks Steve, for the time taken answering these questions.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: 00
    • Shoodaben Engineering
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2015, 07:43:17 am »
  I'll imbed my answers in the Q's below




Couple/three/four questions Steve:

1. If I send my ECU in for a reflash from you, could you check my current Guhl flash against the one(s) you have on file to compare it before you reflash it? (with a follow up email on your findings, I just need to confirm that I'm an unfeeling ass derriere) .
   A) - If I hook up the ECU to do a flash, you will be charged for a flash. If you tell me to do a read / confirm before the flash, I can do that, if you decide you don't want me to flash it's still costing you the price of a flash. I can do the flash, read your previous map and do a compare and report the results but I'm offering a flashing service, not a search your ECU for someone elses flash service.

2. Assuming that for some reason I wanted the old engine braking "feel" (I don't know why, maybe I'm fatigued after a long day of riding and I just want to get to the hotel but I have a long winding mountainous downhill yet ahead of me) couldn't I simply switch to ECO mode to return to the same old engine braking?
  A)Yes, if you like twitchy throttle response.

3. The words "smooth" can mean different things for different folks, I'm looking to eliminate the "off" switch feeling I get when trying to simply throttle back a bit. Regardless of whether my insensitive derriere can feel it, that is one of the things you feel you've achieved with your reflash, correct?
   A) This is what I call twitchy. Snatchy. Like the throttle is either on or off, not modulated. Yes, the Shoodaben flash isn't like that, which is why so many folks report "smooth" as their first descriptive word about the Shoodaben flash.

4. Guhl used to say that for only the price of shipping they would reflash back to stock if the owner requested it. You too?..or no? (Why would anyone want that?...I don't know, maybe taking it in for warranty work and one doesn't want to have the flash on the bike to let the dealer get their knickers in a twist and deny coverage?)
  A)  Guhl charges about 57.00 more than I do. I think If someone wanted me to re-flash asking them to pay shipping and 50.00 service charge would be entirely fair. My reasoning is more to discourage folks from thinking they can get me to flash at their leisure forever on the initial charge... I've found that when folks have to come out of their own pockets they "think" about making the service provider jump through hoops a little bit more.

Thanks Steve, for the time taken answering these questions.
[/quote]

   On a personal note, your questions seem more slanted towards what you can do when you're not satisfied with the flash that what you will enjoy about improving your riding experience with the Shoodaben Flash.  I know that everyone here is "experienced" in life and we've all certainly had experiences that didn't meet our expectations, but I can tell you that there's not much more to be done through tuning to better the c-14's engine performance than the Shoodaben Flash. If a person isn't satisfied with this flash, they truly have unobtainable expectations. That sounds bold, but I'm very critical of my own work, moreso than any educated customer would be and I can tell you there's nothing more to be gained without getting up against unsafe tuning practices. Steve

Offline kzz1king

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2015, 09:03:33 am »
Maybe this is for another thread but does a flash pose any threat to voiding the warranty? Actually what mod can produce warranty issues?
Wayne
2010 CONCOURS
1974 Z-1