Author Topic: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?  (Read 9486 times)

Offline Bill_P

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Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« on: August 26, 2016, 02:44:31 pm »
Yep I have 2008 (65K miles) with a bad ABS pump, Kawi part # 16082-0023.  $1,270 :o for a replacement OEM.  No luck finding one 2nd hand, must be like hens teeth.  Kawi will not warranty this part because they claim I didn't change the brake fluid as required.  Well I did it myself.  So I don't have any proof.  So I am SOL.  The 2nd gen ABS part # is 16082-0041.  So my conundrum is: I can find 2nd gen used ABS pumps cheap, well $150. 

Are they interchangeable? 

Offline maxtog

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2016, 03:02:50 pm »
I don't know for sure, but I am going to say "probably not".  The "pump" is more than just a pump (I believe it has brains/etc, too) and the two ABS's are actually considerably different from gen 1 to gen 2 (if I remember correctly from previous postings).
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2016, 06:28:53 pm »
What Maxdog said - The ABS units from series 1 & 2 are not interchangeable as the series 2 has 5 pipes (linked brakes) not 4, a different harness plug connector for it's electronic connection to the bike's ECU for traction monitoring/control.

If you look at the link below you will see the physical differences between the 4 & 5 pipe units.  The European ZZR 1400 unit will fit a series 1 ZG 1400. Though it is a different part number the pipes and electrical plug are the same and it will work.

(one wonders - not - why the ZZR/ZX 1400 does not have linked brakes) 

Ensure you report the failure to the federal road safety authority, as other have done.  Kawasaki has replaced a small number of units free of charge as you probably know so they can investigate the failure.

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=kawasaki%201400%20abs%20unit&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m1684


I forgot to add that the wheel sensors and rings are also different.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:23:55 pm by Freddy »
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 08:29:18 pm »
(one wonders - not - why the ZZR/ZX 1400 does not have linked brakes) 

Not a sports tourer.  The ZZR/ZX also doesn't have variable valve timing, shaft drive, heated grips, electric windshield, etc.

Quote
Ensure you report the failure to the federal road safety authority, as other have done.  Kawasaki has replaced a small number of units free of charge as you probably know so they can investigate the failure.

+1
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Bill_P

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2016, 12:13:52 am »
Maxtog and Freddy, thanks for the info.  My search will continue.

Offline WolfPack Rider

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 07:07:19 pm »
What Maxdog said - The ABS units from series 1 & 2 are not interchangeable as the series 2 has 5 pipes (linked brakes) not 4, a different harness plug connector for it's electronic connection to the bike's ECU for traction monitoring/control.

If you look at the link below you will see the physical differences between the 4 & 5 pipe units.  The European ZZR 1400 unit will fit a series 1 ZG 1400. Though it is a different part number the pipes and electrical plug are the same and it will work.

(one wonders - not - why the ZZR/ZX 1400 does not have linked brakes) 

Ensure you report the failure to the federal road safety authority, as other have done.  Kawasaki has replaced a small number of units free of charge as you probably know so they can investigate the failure.

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=kawasaki%201400%20abs%20unit&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m1684


I forgot to add that the wheel sensors and rings are also different.


Has anyone tried this? I am having the same problen with my 09 Concours 14 ABS. My bike is immaculate with only 12K miles and Kawasaki told me to pound sand and pay $1600 for the repair. I cant afford that so im looking for another option. Thanks in advanced.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 08:08:50 pm »
Hi WPR, sorry to hear that you have 'joined the club.'  Please report it to the road safety authorities as I requested above.  You will see that one of the last pages in the Owner's Manual advises owners to do this.  I suggest that you contact the tech service dept of Kaw personally and speak to them about replacement as Kaw has been supplying them free of charge but report the brake failure in any case.  Emphasise that this BRAKE FAILURE is a major SAFETY ISSUE.

I cannot add more than I did above other than to say that the European ZZR14 2012-2016 has a different ABS unit, as the bike has traction control and so are not interchangeable with the non-linked (early) ZG1400.
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline WolfPack Rider

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 08:17:43 pm »
I cannot add more than I did above other than to say that the European ZZR14 2012-2016 has a different ABS unit, as the bike has traction control and so are not interchangeable with the non-linked (early) ZG1400.

Would an 09 European zzr14 part work on the 09 concours? There's one on eBay for about $250

Offline Freddy

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The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline WolfPack Rider

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 08:25:35 pm »
Where in the world are you?    I'd await a final answer from Kaw myself.

In Alabama, USA. Kawasaki told me today that the bike is four years out of warranty so they won't help. I suggested it's a systemic issue with the part/design and the disagreed of course. I would test/use my rear brakes on every ride and this happened out of the blue.

Anyways, thinking the ZZR part might be a good option...does anyone know somebody who did it and were there any issues with mounting brackets or connectors? Thanks!

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 10:45:05 pm »
Yep I have 2008 (65K miles) with a bad ABS pump, Kawi part # 16082-0023.  $1,270 :o for a replacement OEM.  No luck finding one 2nd hand, must be like hens teeth.  Kawi will not warranty this part because they claim I didn't change the brake fluid as required.  Well I did it myself.  So I don't have any proof.  So I am SOL.  The 2nd gen ABS part # is 16082-0041.  So my conundrum is: I can find 2nd gen used ABS pumps cheap, well $150. 

Are they interchangeable?
They are not interchangeable
just an FYI  there is a 3rd generation for the Concours  16082-0743  and no other bikes use any of these 3 generations. The ZZR is a different part numer. I assume it will not mate up easily
You have to use the correct number for your  brake genearation
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 12:26:54 am »
WPR, I have done it.  As DM points out, the ZZR1400 2006-2011 and 2007-2009 ZG1400 (early) ABS units are different part numbers but they are interchangeable. 

Remove the tank to access the ABS unit.  Photograph or mark which pipes go where.  Remove pipes taking care of brake fluid spills, remove harness connector, remove ABS unit.  Reverse procedure for fitting, bleed system.  Be aware that a used unit could also be a failed unit.  If you can't bleed the system, bin it.

The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 02:31:30 pm »
For anyone that wants it, I have the chapter on ABS troubleshooting  saved to a pdf.  It's for a 2008 but it may be helpful.   PM me if you want it.
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Offline martin_14

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2017, 01:41:37 pm »
in my research for the cause for the strange behaviour on the feeling of my front brakes, I found out that, as somebody mentioned, the ABS unit from the earlier ZZR1400 (ZX14R) is indeed interchangeable. The parameters are slightly different (given the different mass of the 2 bikes and other things) but it'll work. An Australian owner has his bike driving around like this, and I sourced a unit from a ZX14R and the vendor said that it will fit in the C14, just less efficient. I was about to pull the trigger until Kawasaki suggested to instead pull the 3 fuses of the ABS system in the bike in order to rule it out for my problem, so in the end I didn't have to go this route, but I would have done it. For some reason, the few used pumps available out there are around 350€ (380 USD) for the C14, while the ZX14R units consistently cost the half. Annoying.
BTW, my bike was destroyed last Monday (link to the post with more details) and I might be able to get the ABS unit out of it, but I'm not sure how the insurance will see it, or how long it could take, or how expensive it'd be to ship it to the USA.
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Will a 2nd gen ABS pump work on 1st gen?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 07:26:09 pm »
SOOOO glad you lived to report back Martin.  Yes, I read you 'story'. 
The best substitute for brains is .............what?