Author Topic: Bike is dead, Jim!  (Read 4905 times)

Offline TallyRex

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2016, 05:30:28 pm »



 so will monitor and periodically start and run the bike before taking any trips.



No, buy a battery tender

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2016, 12:15:25 am »
No, buy a battery tender

+1

Cheap and easy battery insurance.
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline steveb19

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2018, 01:02:12 pm »
Ive had a similar problem today. Changed fob batteries just in case but still dead. Ill look at battery tomorrow ,hooe it is something so simple!
quote author=NinjaRat link=topic=21720.msg269867#msg269867 date=1472580525]
Hello all,

Been a lurker for a while, but am having a problem with my 2011 that I'm hoping to get some feedback with. Long story short, stopped for gas on the way to work and when attempting to start the bike it acted as if the battery was dead (thumbing the starter cause the instrument panel to dim and throw various errors about FI, Immobilizer and KTRC…unfortunately I noticed no error code #). It's done this before, but usually switching it off and waiting a second or two it would fire up normally. No go this time and progressively got worse the more times I retried; I believe that at this point I was just draining the battery. Eventually I got a tow and the bike is now sitting in my garage on the trickle charger.

Since I’ve had it home, the behavior has changed a bit. When it was first fully charged the dash would light up normally (both left red and oil light, dials would spin, etc), but once I hit the ignition switch I’d get nothing but a rapid clicking noise coming from the tank area and an alternating errors on the display: KTRC and K-ACT ABS error.

Strangely, since getting the battery tested (it’s good) the bike is now acting differently. Now when I turn it on the display takes a moment before illuminating and pressing the starter I hear a click and the dash goes dark with only the oil light faintly illuminated (along with Neutral). Turning off the key nob and back on repeats the same behavior.

For the record, the bike is a 2011 with  22k some odd miles (I bought two years ago in Nov with under 7000 miles) . I installed a new battery in January, and just had it load tested resulting in a healthy status. Also, all fuses appear to be intact and functional. Lastly, I performed a diode test on the Voltage Regulator/rectifier having had bad experience with failure on my last bike, a Triumph Sprint ST, but it appears sound.

Any suggestions on what might be the problem or next steps I should take in troubleshooting?  Thanks in advance!
[/quote]

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2018, 01:56:12 pm »
During all of the "testing" outlined above, and the charging, was the battery actually taken out of the bike?

Biggest question, did you disconnect, and abrasively clean every cable connector, including the grounding points on the frame, and the actual battery terminal where the connection is made?

By abrasively clean, I mean actually scrub them all till shiney, using some sandpaper, and wipe them ALL off..?

I constantly hear "they are clean", "They looked clean", "they were tight", etc., when unless those steps were actually done, in fact they are not "clean".

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2018, 03:39:37 pm »
 :goodpost:

What he is describing is almost "text book" perfect power connection issues we have seen so many times on the C14.  I have experienced it myself.  Check the frame ground connections (disconnect, clean, reconnect, tighten) near the battery, clean the posts and cables on the battery and connect firmly.  Bet ya the problems just magically disappear...
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2018, 06:00:06 am »
I have heard of so many ground issues.  My bike has never done that thankfully.  But it sounds like it wouldn't hurt to proactively check the grounds.  Next time I do maintenance on my bike, I'd like to clean them.  How many grounds are there and where are they?

Thanks
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2018, 03:42:20 pm »
I have heard of so many ground issues.  My bike has never done that thankfully.  But it sounds like it wouldn't hurt to proactively check the grounds.  Next time I do maintenance on my bike, I'd like to clean them.  How many grounds are there and where are they?

Thanks

the two main points are the place the 2 ground wires attach to just in front of the battery, remove those 2 bolts, and scrub the aluminum on the frame with sandpaper, and wipe it down clean with solvent, also clean both the ring lugs on the cable ends that contact the frame, when bolted back on...same manner... the battery connection/wire lug/terminal also requires the same treatment.
(don't worry about the extra red and black wires I show in the below photo, those run to my remotely mounted aux fuse block)

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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2018, 03:54:51 pm »
... and coat the entire connection liberally with dielectric grease to eliminate (OK, delay) corrosion.

I actually coat all of the pieces with grease before I even start assembling them, which is messy, yes, but ensures a thorough application of grease.

This post brought to you by Slippy Fingers Connie.

Offline Poseidon

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2018, 04:53:21 pm »
... and coat the entire connection liberally with dielectric grease to eliminate (OK, delay) corrosion.

I actually coat all of the pieces with grease before I even start assembling them, which is messy, yes, but ensures a thorough application of grease.

This post brought to you by Slippy Fingers Connie.

Dielectric grease can cause connection issues. It should be applied to the connection after it is tightened down. With automotive electrical connectors, it is recommended to apply to the boot in order to help seal the connection, but avoid the connections themselves. I’ve seen a lot of connection issues on ATVs when guys use too much dielectric grease on the connections when trying to water proof their bikes. Thin coating probably will not cause any problems but if you get carried away with it, it definitely can!
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2018, 05:14:15 pm »
I agree.  "Dielectric" means that it is an insulator- it blocks conductivity of electricity.  My understanding is that it should be applied AFTER connection, to the outside, and this prevents moisture and oxygen from getting into the connection.  The corrosion caused by moisture and oxygen is what causes the connection to become unreliable over time.
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2018, 06:20:51 pm »
... and coat the entire connection liberally with dielectric grease to eliminate (OK, delay) corrosion.

I actually coat all of the pieces with grease before I even start assembling them, which is messy, yes, but ensures a thorough application of grease.

This post brought to you by Slippy Fingers Connie.

as the 2 prior posts note, and I have always preached on, Dielectric grease is an insulator, and subsequently should not be applied to the actual current carrying metal surfaces being clamped together... it can be used to 'seal' the connection as assembled clean and dry, when used as an external only coating, but then again anything applied, like clear spray paint, will do the same.

Having worked in the Power Quality industry for 20 years, the only thing that can be applied to the actual current carrying surfaces being clamped (like copper bus bars, and cable terminations as such) is this stuff... NO-OX-ID
https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html

it is the industry standard, we used it for everything that was exposed to humid and corrosive environments, and it is NOT an insulator... I always suggest having a tube, in your stash, for bike work. A little lasts a lifetime.

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Offline MtnRider

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2018, 07:52:22 pm »

Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2018, 10:24:38 pm »
Loctite Dielectric Grease: http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/LB%208423-EN?pid=LB%208423&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS

Directions for use:

2. For connectors and battery terminals
  • Make sure ignition system is off.
  • Clean surfaces with appropriate cleaner such as Loctite® Pro Strength Parts Cleaner or Loctite® Battery Cleaner.
  • Coat both parts with grease.
  • Reassemble.

Here's a test, although I can't get the vid to play within this post:

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2018, 12:54:19 am »
Here's a test, although I can't get the vid to play within this post:

There is no question that many (if not most) people use it that way, but, nonetheless, dielectric grease is an insulator that inhibits or stops electrical flow.   The reason it works that way at all (coating all surfaces) is because the clamping force of the connection is typically high enough to push the grease out of the way once the connection is tightened, allowing metal-to-metal contact (and, thus, electric flow).  And in most cases, it probably does work that way.  However, I am not sure that will always work as expected.... especially if the current on that particular connection is (or was) never high.  I suppose, theoretically, if the connection wasn't tight enough to push the grease out of the way, it might not have been good enough to allow electric flow in the first place.  So the questions are: can one count on that force to work, and work great over time, and work well at all currents, and does the possibility of current inhibition outweigh the positive of having an even better seal against corrosion?  Hmm...
Guhl ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Bike is dead, Jim!
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2018, 02:19:38 am »
...  So the questions are: can one count on that force to work, and work great over time, and work well at all currents, and does the possibility of current inhibition outweigh the positive of having an even better seal against corrosion?  Hmm...

Well, Loctite didn't put their directions in this order:

3. Reassemble.
4. Coat both parts with grease.

 :)


If the connection loosens, is air more likely to conduct electricity than grease? Nah. Probably about the same: Nil.