ABS module

[martin_14]

In preparation for the bad news that my workshop might give me next week when replacing the front brake pump (namely, that I might need a new ABS module) I've been looking around and the module seems to cost over 1200USD.
Off to eBay, then. There seems to be a lot of 2006-2011 ZZR1400 (ZX-14 in the US) ABS modules, but just a few C14/1400GTR modules. The ones for the ZX-14 cost less than 100USD delivered, but the ones for the GTR cost 3 times as much. Part numbers are:
ZZR1400/ZX14: 16082-0008, which replaced the 16082-0031
C14/1400GTR: 16082-0023
Does somebody know if they are interchangeable?

[maxtog]

You didn't say which years...

Although there is a possibility of compatibility with the Gen 1 system, there is zero chance with the Gen 2- the ZX-14 doesn't have linked brakes and that is controlled in the ABS module for Gen 2.

As for why the difference in numbers, I suspect Kawasaki sells at least 4 times as many ZX's as they do GTR's.  And I also expect that ZX's are totaled (wrecked) at twice or more the rate of GTR's (demographic effect).... so that would mean 8 times the number of used ZX parts out there.  Now add the fact that GTR's are probably in service much longer (remember, fewer wrecks) so the demand for their parts might actually be higher, and that means higher prices.  And there is a flood of ZX parts that are not as needed, and that means lower prices.

[Freddy]

The harness connector plug and piping is the same so it will fit.   


16082-0023 is series 1.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21700.0;topicseen

[martin_14]

You didn't say which years...

Although there is a possibility of compatibility with the Gen 1 system, there is zero chance with the Gen 2- the ZX-14 doesn't have linked brakes and that is controlled in the ABS module for Gen 2.

As for why the difference in numbers, I suspect Kawasaki sells at least 4 times as many ZX's as they do GTR's.  And I also expect that ZX's are totaled (wrecked) at twice or more the rate of GTR's (demographic effect).... so that would mean 8 times the number of used ZX parts out there.  Now add the fact that GTR's are probably in service much longer (remember, fewer wrecks) so the demand for their parts might actually be higher, and that means higher prices.  And there is a flood of ZX parts that are not as needed, and that means lower prices.

I truly, madly, deeply hate it when you're right 
My bike is 2008.

And your reasoning of why the price difference seems correct.
I got in contact with one seller (they specialize in Kawasaki parts here in Europe) and he said that while the physical part might be the same, the electrical part might not, so he suggested to ask Kawasaki. I looked into several OEM parts suppliers and the prices are the same to the cent, but that just confirms what the vendor said, nothing else. I'm writing to Kawasaki UK in a minute. Kawasaki Germany has been all but useless every time I had a question.

[maxtog]

I truly, madly, deeply hate it when you're right 

   You must live a very tortured life, then         LOL

My bike is 2008.

I thought so, but wasn't sure.

I'm writing to Kawasaki UK in a minute. Kawasaki Germany has been all but useless every time I had a question.

Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath with UK one either.  They will probably just refer you to a dealer.  Or perhaps tell you that if it is a different part number that it won't be compatible.  Or tell you it is compatible and yet you can't trust what the desk jockey is saying.  It is actually quite common across all industries, it seems (at least, all the ones I have had to deal with).

[MAN OF BLUES]

I'm having zero luck with the Kaw USA parts fiche, trying to compare the zx/zzr abs stuff, as they don't show parts for the ZZR..

Id check to see if the wheel speed sensors, and sensor discs compare to this on the zg, first thing,  which I'm having difficulty finding for the ZZR...
If they compare, then the "pulse count " thru the ecu should allow the pump interchange, as long as the harness and fittings are the same...

Worst case scenario is if you can pick up one from a ZZR, and install it, and have someone with a KDS system verify functions of the system, then id try it.

[Freddy]

Series 1 ZG14 and 2006-2011 ZX14 (ZZR1400) ABS (non traction control) parts are interchangeable ie. they will function, perhaps not to the manufacturer's satisfaction though.  Series 2 ZG14 sensors & wheel rings are not interchangeable with series 1.

MOB, have you had a KDS3 connected to the ABS unit?  I've asked that question whether it does/can elsewhere but nobody responded.  Just curious.   

[martin_14]

I'm having zero luck with the Kaw USA parts fiche, trying to compare the zx/zzr abs stuff, as they don't show parts for the ZZR..

Id check to see if the wheel speed sensors, and sensor discs compare to this on the zg, first thing,  which I'm having difficulty finding for the ZZR...
If they compare, then the "pulse count " thru the ecu should allow the pump interchange, as long as the harness and fittings are the same...

Worst case scenario is if you can pick up one from a ZZR, and install it, and have someone with a KDS system verify functions of the system, then id try it.

The brake discs and sensors seem to be the same, since they have the same part number. Funny thing: I also looked at the fiche at a couple of US sites, and it seems like the ZZR has no ABS, or I might have pressed the wrong button. So I went to the European sites and voilà, ABS module is there.
Picking up a module from a ZZR is not a problem. Returning it if it is the wrong one, would be.

Series 1 ZG14 and ZX14 (ZZR1400) ABS parts are interchangeable ie. they will function, perhaps not to the manufacturer's satisfaction though.  Series 2 ZG14 sensors & wheel rings are not interchangeable with series 1.

"series 1" of the ZX14 would be...? 2006-2011? the one with the 1352cc engine? or is there any sub-division in there too? I'm completely ignorant about the ZX14. I once drove the new one, with the 1441cc engine, and as long as I don't get a malign tumor I won't go near that bike again.

[Freddy]

Series 1 - I was referring to ZG1400, sorry.  For the sake of further confusion I suppose series 2 (ZX14)ZZR1400 is that with the larger engine.  But the ABS parts fit the series 1 ZG1400 as they both have unlinked braked BUT the later ZX14 with Traction Control probably would not - ie, the harness connector may be different as it is no doubt wired into the bike's ECU, which is not the case with non-TC bikes apart from the feed via the ABS warning light.

My reference to the ZZR1400 ABS unit not meeting the 'manufacturer's satisfaction' if fitted to a ZG1400 means that as the part numbers are different they would not approve.  I have fitted a ZZR1400 ABS unit to a ZG1400 without any discernible issue. 

[martin_14]

G'day, mate! I just noticed your location 
thanks for the clarification. Question: have you had an ABS activation on that ZG with the ZX ABS module? Everything fine? Front, rear?

[Freddy]

I certainly have, to test operation.  Both front & rear function as they should.

[martin_14]

now that this seems like a viable route, I have more questions:
- which one did you use from the ZX: 16082-0008 or 16082-0031?
- from the fiche, I understand that (against logic) the 0008 replaces the 0031. Any idea what's the difference? and when was this replacement?
- is there any way to identify the part number from the part itself, if I had it on my hand? I only saw the V##-K##### number on top, no idea what it means.

[VirginiaJim]

This thread delivers! 

[Deziner]

This thread forum delivers! 

FIFY

[Freddy]

now that this seems like a viable route, I have more questions:
- which one did you use from the ZX: 16082-0008 or 16082-0031?
- from the fiche, I understand that (against logic) the 0008 replaces the 0031. Any idea what's the difference? and when was this replacement?
- is there any way to identify the part number from the part itself, if I had it on my hand? I only saw the V##-K##### number on top, no idea what it means.

I used one from a European 2008 ZZR1400, presumably p/n -0031.  From what I have observed, all the 4 pipe units will fit (except for the latest ones with TC as I said above - I haven't had one in hand or seen the wiring diagram to check).  The ABS units do not have the Kaw part number on them.

[sportytoes]

"series 1" of the ZX14 would be...? 2006-2011? the one with the 1352cc engine? or is there any sub-division in there too? I'm completely ignorant about the ZX14. I once drove the new one, with the 1441cc engine, and as long as I don't get a malign tumor I won't go near that bike again.

Plan A: disassemble my pump for my 2008 ZG1400 and see if I can make it work.
Plan B: Search for a used ZX14 pump, 2011 or older
Plan C: Search for a used ZG1400 pump, 2008-2009 model

This thread suggests Plan B is in the lead. More model years produced. Thanks guys!

[Rhino]

Does this mean your bike is not totaled? Both you and your bike got hit by a bus and both survived? Now that is impressive!

[jamiemac]

I didn't think US made 1st gen ZX14's had antilock? If I need to search for one of the units, is the European model the only source?

[Freddy]

True.  Yes, but ensure it's off a 2006-2011 ZZR1400 model.  Later than that had TC and will not interchange with the gen 1 ZG1400 - same wheel sensors like gen 2 ZG which are different to gen 1.

Ensure you report the brake failure to NHTSA.  Only by sufficient folks doing so will K doing anything about this major safety issue - maybe.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/us-market-rear-abs-issues/

[jamiemac]

Thanks for the info, Freddy! Appreciate it.