Author Topic: We're doomed  (Read 12739 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2016, 07:59:26 am »
Don't worry It's just the Trump effect

You can say anything, do anything , demean everyone , it's OK :)

It's the new normal.
Sounds like fun....you up first?
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2016, 09:14:37 am »
Don't worry It's just the Trump effect

You can say anything, do anything , demean everyone , it's OK :)

It's the new normal.

Sounds like fun....you up first?

Not here, please. Take it to the Arena boys. I'm sure it will be fully appreciated there.

Offline Classvino

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2016, 10:21:01 am »
I thought the way Heinlein postulated in his book "Starship Troopers" was interesting..

There were 2 levels of citizenship - One by birth, and a higher level you earned by military or Govt service - the higher level entitled you to vote, and hold government office, among other things..

That meant, he said, that the people who determined who that gov't was, were the same people who understood what the government did and didn't do, and knew the value of "good" government...

Neat premise, but it'd never fly.

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Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2016, 10:43:42 am »
Not here, please. Take it to the Arena boys. I'm sure it will be fully appreciated there.

We're always open.  :)
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Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2016, 10:46:01 am »
I thought the way Heinlein postulated in his book "Starship Troopers" was interesting..

There were 2 levels of citizenship - One by birth, and a higher level you earned by military or Govt service - the higher level entitled you to vote, and hold government office, among other things..

That meant, he said, that the people who determined who that gov't was, were the same people who understood what the government did and didn't do, and knew the value of "good" government...

Neat premise, but it'd never fly.

Jamie

It's that part about privilege by birth that won't fly. We've got enough of that already.
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Online maxtog

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 03:29:39 pm »
I thought the way Heinlein postulated in his book "Starship Troopers" was interesting..

There were 2 levels of citizenship - One by birth, and a higher level you earned by military or Govt service - the higher level entitled you to vote, and hold government office, among other things..

That meant, he said, that the people who determined who that gov't was, were the same people who understood what the government did and didn't do, and knew the value of "good" government...

Neat premise, but it'd never fly.

Nope.  Kinda like I wish people that were on aid and not paying taxes shouldn't be able to vote during those periods- it is a conflict of interest to be able to just vote in whatever will keep paying for you to take everyone else's money!   Of course, that kind of stuff could be abused (and has been in the past).
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Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 03:57:11 pm »
Nope.  Kinda like I wish people that were on aid and not paying taxes shouldn't be able to vote during those periods- it is a conflict of interest to be able to just vote in whatever will keep paying for you to take everyone else's money!   Of course, that kind of stuff could be abused (and has been in the past).

Sounds like government employees unions.  ::)
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Offline sanmo

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2016, 07:47:31 pm »
Don't worry It's just the Trump effect

You can say anything, do anything , demean everyone , it's OK :)

It's the new normal.

The events cited by the OP could just be the last hurrah for mayhem before the "law & order" Prez gets inaugurated on 1/20. The next 4 - 8 years could be interesting sociological times.  :banana
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Offline Conrad

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2016, 05:44:30 am »
I thought the way Heinlein postulated in his book "Starship Troopers" was interesting..

There were 2 levels of citizenship - One by birth, and a higher level you earned by military or Govt service - the higher level entitled you to vote, and hold government office, among other things..

That meant, he said, that the people who determined who that gov't was, were the same people who understood what the government did and didn't do, and knew the value of "good" government...

Neat premise, but it'd never fly.

Jamie

It's that part about privilege by birth that won't fly. We've got enough of that already.

I didn't read the book but what I got from Jamie's post was that there were ONLY two levels. One, the lower level, was at birth. The second and higher level was only reachable by government or military service.

I like this idea a lot.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 08:14:01 am by Conrad »
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Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2016, 05:55:23 am »
I might be misunderstanding....been known to happen.  ::)
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2016, 11:23:12 am »
Sounds like government employees unions.  ::)

As a proud former member, I would like to point out that they serve a useful purpose for the public as well as the members. Since there is no bottom line for management to worry about in Government, they come up with lots of screwy ideas, most of them costly. Surprisingly many would show up about a year after they were made fun of in Dilbert. We would often joke about Dilbert being management's primer. The public (and congress) rarely see this stuff if the unions don't bring it to light. Yes there is some protectionism in the unions ranks, but when there is no bottom line to worry about, management tends to think less about who are the most productive employees, and more about the ones that cause the least amount of problems for themselves. If you think government is unproductive now, you would be shocked at how little would get done without unions. I never once saw a management idea for a proficiency program, it was always the union that wanted one. Management was only interested in proficiency after an employee screwed something up so they could say they took action (with that one employee) then once that box is checked they turn right back to minimizing their own work load instead of coming up with a plan to prevent future screw ups.
OK, I've vented now.

Offline Cholla

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2016, 09:44:50 am »
I fid it odd that unions by and large embrace government yet government hasthe most unionized employees.
If hovt is so loved why do they need unions? For that matter why do union employees have a union?
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Offline wally_games

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2017, 11:26:54 am »
I prefer two years military or government service after primary schooling. Some people just can't handle military discipline.
We need some way to re-instill patriotism in our young-ins.
I also like 16 years of (free) public education, with the following two years of government service. Anyone who drops out of school still must serve the remainder of the 16 year time plus the two years in military/government service. This would be an incentive to stay in school.

Bob Skinner

I'm sorry, Bob, but there is no such thing as "FREE" public education. I think asking the taxpayers (I definitely am one) to pay for 12 years of that is plenty, especially since there are many that won't benefit from any more "learning" anyway. To me, college is for those that want to actually take on an occupation that needs/requires the additional education. We don't need to be sending kids to college just to get a degree in something that isn't marketable. We have too many philosophy, general studies, art history, etc. students out there already that can't use their degree to get a paying job.

I do like the "if you drop out, just add those years to your other service" part of that. Just make that after 13 years (K-12).

Ok, ready to accept stones being tossed at me.
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Online maxtog

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2017, 12:01:28 pm »
[...]Ok, ready to accept stones being tossed at me.

I won't be one of them.  Nothing is free, and not everyone can benefit from higher education any more than everyone could benefit from military service.  There is no magic regimen that will work for creating decent people and citizens out of everyone.  The human condition is so much more complicated.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2017, 01:06:53 pm »
I'm sorry, Bob, but there is no such thing as "FREE" public education. I think asking the taxpayers (I definitely am one) to pay for 12 years of that is plenty, especially since there are many that won't benefit from any more "learning" anyway. To me, college is for those that want to actually take on an occupation that needs/requires the additional education. We don't need to be sending kids to college just to get a degree in something that isn't marketable. We have too many philosophy, general studies, art history, etc. students out there already that can't use their degree to get a paying job.

I do like the "if you drop out, just add those years to your other service" part of that. Just make that after 13 years (K-12).

Ok, ready to accept stones being tossed at me.

No stones being tossed here either. I agree completely.