Author Topic: We're doomed  (Read 12311 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2017, 07:02:08 pm »
Sounds like you'd be happier if you moved to Europe.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2017, 08:35:01 pm »
I assume you are addressing me.....

The price the consumer pays for fuel is directly linked to that persons' country's international status. Economics, especially international economics, is a complicated topic but as always, there are fundamental truths that are pretty simple and obvious. What I was trying to say is that the expenditure going into defense is not all going into defense; a lot of it is the simple case of projecting potential power. Read back on Theodore Roosevelt's 'Great White Fleet' and see how he used that to get the US as close to a colonial power as the country ever was, and all without engaging any 'enemy' (real or imagined) or firing a shot.

Europeans get further back in the line for petroleum than some other countries, and they pay more because of that (and they do tax fuel quite highly also). I might suggest you look up the company Aramco and then see if you can find another company named 'Germanco' or 'Italco'. :-)

Priorities, yes but also other factors. I have been to western Europe and will readily agree that their rail systems are magnificent, especially the ICE in Germany- outstanding. But a much larger percentage of their population uses public transportation than the US population does, which in turn makes it financially feasible. Americans often say things such as 'We should have those wonderful trains and train stations here' but the fact of the matter is that Americans to use individual transportation (autos) because they are more convenient if less efficient. Different countries, different people, different ways of life and one cannot pick up a piece of a foreign country and put it into place someplace else with a substantially if not radically differing systems because that does not work. By the way, the German "free" health insurance costs them 17% of their wages; I have seen the paychecks. And they have a saying in Germany that paychecks must be written on onion skins because when you open the envelope, it makes you cry. In my very limited experience, utopia is always just over the next hill..... no matter how many hills you travel.

Brian

What has the price of gasoline in Europe got to do with this? Europeans choose to tax gasoline at a high rate. They fund public transportation and have well maintained roads. They drive small, fuel efficient, and sometimes fun cars...

We practically don't tax gas, our vehicles guzzle fuel, and have crap roads. I guess it's priorities.
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Offline rrsperry

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2017, 05:21:54 am »
The cost of gasoline is pretty stable everywhere. (depending on the price of a barrel of crude) Europeans pay more because of taxes. The cost of the product is about the same.

And I'm not implying that mass transit is the same. They have higher densities, and closer population centers that just don't work here. (for a lot of reasons)

Since I don't know anything about other countries health care delivery systems, I can't say anything, except that I wonder if our decision to let health care insurance companies make a 20% margin, (they only have to spend $0.80 of every $1 on actual care) is part of the reason we pay more an get less? Just asking.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2017, 06:26:52 am »
The healthcare question is extremely complex.  There is no one reason it is expensive.  Here are just a few reasons:

1) Frivolous litigation
2) Lack of paying participants
3) Entitlement mentalities
4) Regulation (over regulation in some areas, under in others)
5) Unnecessarily aggressive end of life care
6) Waste (of money, in the form of things being bought and done that are not needed or never used)
7) Over-caution on "medical devices" (which carry unnecessary and insane premium prices)
8 ) Lack of preventative care
9) Drug abuse
10) Inappropriate use of the emergency room

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Please keep in mind that I also believe that further "socializing" healthcare won't fix it.  It will help with some aspects, and hurt with others.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2017, 10:39:42 am »
It would seem that a barrel of crude has a fixed price but not everyone (every country) buys it on the open market at current 'value'.

Mass transit is about the same, the difference is that Americans demand and get individuality and convenience (we drive everywhere) and pay a premium for that ability. Europeans use mass transit because they have to for a variety of reasons. So the often stated thought that 'we' should have nice, clean, efficient and <relatively> inexpensive mass transit systems here in the US as they do in, say, Germany is backwards. We have chosen individual transport and will not make use of mass transit....

Health care is a touchy subject (yeah, I see the pun but did not mean it). The realities just do not fit in with our social and moral wants and expectations. The fact is that it should be managed, just like every other aspect of life but we use emotion to drive the system. Some years ago I read the results of a study that showed more than 50% of all health care expenditure is in the last six weeks of life; this shows that we are basically throwing a huge amount of resources at something that almost always has the usual conclusion that cannot be altered. Some years ago Canada caught on to the realities of life and basically put a cap on medical spending; great for the economy, not so good for good ole' Uncle Louis who needs a new liver at 87 years of age. In the olden' days of, say, 100 years ago, medicine was limited by technology and so it was basically impossible to spend a great deal of money on it because of that limitation. Put simply, it was not possible to run up a $200,000 medical bill because there was just nothing technically available that was that expensive. Today, we have access to vast resources in medicine and medical treatment and the only way to deal with the economics of this is to limit how much is used by society. We can do that is a couple of ways but basically are now transitioning between an older method (not everyone has access to top level medical care, the classic capitalist method) to a more universal distribution which MUST result in universal limits in medical benefits for everyone. I am not going to get into that debate, and will not even share my opinions on the subject but basically, those are the two options we are struggling with right now.

Brian

The cost of gasoline is pretty stable everywhere. (depending on the price of a barrel of crude) Europeans pay more because of taxes. The cost of the product is about the same.

And I'm not implying that mass transit is the same. They have higher densities, and closer population centers that just don't work here. (for a lot of reasons)

Since I don't know anything about other countries health care delivery systems, I can't say anything, except that I wonder if our decision to let health care insurance companies make a 20% margin, (they only have to spend $0.80 of every $1 on actual care) is part of the reason we pay more an get less? Just asking.
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Offline gPink

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2017, 11:01:59 am »
We can do that is a couple of ways but basically are now transitioning between an older method (not everyone has access to top level medical care, the classic capitalist method) to a more universal distribution which MUST result in universal limits in medical benefits for everyone.

...but in reality will not.... "The classic Socialist method."
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Offline Cholla

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2017, 10:01:53 pm »
Of all the expenditures mentioned here the only ones that are mentioned in CotUS as a function of government is militaru and roads.
And everyone talks about mass transit.
It is unprofitable. Everywhere it relies on heavy taxes to sustain it. If it was profitable you would see private companies competing to do it.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2017, 01:19:16 am »
Of all the expenditures mentioned here the only ones that are mentioned


If you want to talk about waste of money, look at what we pay to service the national debt.  Money that is 100% flushed down the toilet and should never have happened in the first place.  What a wonderful example we set for citizens- to spend more than we take in, and do it over and over again, decade after decade.

$20 TRILLION dollars of debt, 44% of it held by foreign creditors!  $166,000 per tax payer.  $223 BILLION dollars of expense to pay for it in 2015 alone- just one year.  That is probably something like $2,000 of expense PER YEAR for every working person in the country.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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Offline Hooligan

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2017, 06:16:39 am »
Ya'll think you got it bad....... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Try the RSA.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
It is what it is....If not, it must be something else.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2017, 10:07:25 am »
I had spoken with a pair of brothers who emigrated from S.A. and they told some pretty ugly stories. It sounded like the country was basically imploding, almost like the very structure of society was breaking down. Now I know two people do not represent an entire country and hey, they could have just been telling stories but what data I have seen seems to align with what they said. Very unfortunate by the sounds of it.

Brian

Ya'll think you got it bad....... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Try the RSA.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline rrsperry

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2017, 03:56:08 pm »
One of my really good friends came here from Johannesburg RSA about 10 years ago. Was offered a job and accepted it without even asking his wife or kids. All she asked was when do we leave...the stories they tell. Electric fences, tall walls, flame thrower anti carjack devices... eh no thanks.

He became an American two years ago. Can drive a golf ball, but can't  chip or putt to save his life.   Lol
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: We're doomed
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2017, 04:42:56 pm »
Yeah but does he putt on the wrong side of the green?

:-)

Some years ago there was a long distance rider named David Jones from Australia who came to the US and rode a couple of rallies. He had a big cardboard sign just over the dash of his bike with the words "Keep Right" and an arrow pointing toward the right (seriously). Sadly he was killed on his last rally in the US in a deer- strike in Idaho.

Brian

One of my really good friends came here from Johannesburg RSA about 10 years ago. Was offered a job and accepted it without even asking his wife or kids. All she asked was when do we leave...the stories they tell. Electric fences, tall walls, flame thrower anti carjack devices... eh no thanks.

He became an American two years ago. Can drive a golf ball, but can't  chip or putt to save his life.   Lol
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com