Author Topic: H4 LED Fitment  (Read 14409 times)

Offline mikeyw64

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H4 LED Fitment
« on: February 20, 2017, 02:24:17 pm »
Ok just couldn't resist tinkering (and I will accept that the GTRs stock headlights are one of the best OEM fitments I've come across) however I haven't gone down the HID install route I murmured about previously.

Instead after doing some research on the different types of H4 LED options available I opted for a set of Lumiled fitted ones. Mine came from here and admittedly weren't cheap.(both more expensive & cheaper options were available)

The packaging does however smack of a quality product (& yes they will be Chinese sourced) and the instructions are in reasonably clear Chinglish (although the seller had added their own sheet of A4 with notes around the filament positioning.



What I like about this style is when you compare them to a standard H4 Halogen bulb, the positioning of the leds lines up nicely as does the inclusion of the shield for the dipped section. In theory this should put the hot spot in the right place in the reflector.



Furthermore the inner section is secured by 2 screws and can be angled. The instructions say to position 6 for LHD and position 8 for RHD. This tilts the shielded section slightly, position 7 would be a neutral position similar to the Halogen unit

Note please refer to Maxtogs findings on his US bike, it may be preferable to leave it at 7





WHat is also nice is that the heat sink is removable which allows the OEM rubber boot to be slid back over before refitting the heat sink




Initial impressions are that the light spread is identical to the standard Halogen unit although I will be calling in at my friendly testing station tomorrow and just checking it on their beam tester.

Will also take some pics as my phone can't handle the bright light at night although it does look nice and white especially as I have LDs in the DRL/Indicators and also the city lights.


One final thing, it's really nice to have a bike where (with minimal plastic removal) you don't have to be a gynecologist to replace the bulbs, even in poor light  :clap:

EDIT:

Beam Pattern Pics added

The scene


Dip/Lo


Main/Hi (hmm got a bit shakey there, soz)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 12:16:04 am by mikeyw64 »
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 03:02:36 pm »
FYI the install is very straightforward:

1) Raise screen and remove both inner  panels
2) Remove existing bulbs (plug off, rubber boot off, undo clip)
3) Unscrew Heatsink
4) Fit LED Bulb securing with clip as per Halogen fitment
5) Slide rubber boot over fly lead and over back part of bulb
6) Screw the heatsink back on
7) Connect the driver unit to the fly lead
8) Secure the driver unit (I used zip ties to the mirror/frame  brackets
9) Test
10) Refit plastics
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 04:13:08 pm »
In the interests of the group I just took the bike for a 10 mile spin to get milk from the garage which is a 3 minute walk from my house.

The beam pattern looks pretty much identical to standard with no scatter and also I didnt get any oncoming vehicles flashing me or people in front slapping on the fog lights (ie the traditional indications you've annoyed someone)

The light is just brighter & whiter and out on some unlit country roads it was almost like driving in daylight. I've seen some conversions where you lose some of the foreground light but that isn't the case here
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 06:23:56 pm »
Thanks for the info and photos!!  Those are similar to the type of units I am eyeing to replace my HID system at some point (because they scatter too much, vibrate a bit too much, I have trouble with the ballast mountings, and they are getting old).

My feedback:

* Those are marked "Lumileds"

* VERY impressed that they are FANLESS.  This means no fan to fail or worry about, and no noise!  Seems like fans are finally on the way out.  That was a deal-breaker with previous models out there.

* Unlike the others I have seen, the tilt option is something different and useful that I like a lot.

* Those are not that expensive.  $87 is quite reasonable.

* NOT impressed with the color temp.  6500K doesn't have a factory look (4300K - 5000K would be better) but that is what sells (people WANT to advertise it is a mod).  That would be a problem for me.

* Are they double sided?  I assume so, but the photos don't show.

Would be interesting to see a comparable product on USA Ebay/Amazon.  These seem to be VERY similar, although without the tilt/rotation option, on Ebay for $100:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Philips-H4-160W-High-Power-6000K-LED-Conversion-Kit-For-Headlight-16000LM-/152223846937

And similar again, but on Amazon and considerably less at $75:

https://www.amazon.com/CloudWorks-Headlight-000Lumens-Philips-Technology/dp/B01IX0B6AQ
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 11:15:53 pm »
Thhe listing states 6000 to 6500k, the box says 6000k.

I do accept that's not to everyones taste but I have 6k LEDs as DRL & City light so like the uniform crisp white look.

Note they are also 80w


Yes they are double sided, total of 16 chips. Marked Lumiled but are they ?  I can't honestly say but I do like the results

The first ones you listed look to be  identical (there is a small section in there about rotating to LHD or RHD position)

Something I didn't mention which is a nice touch, they have put heatsink paste (similar to that used for computer processors) on the threads of the heatsink


For reference these appear to be the same items direct from the Chinese suppliers


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hottest-4000lm-H4-H13-H15-9004_782513201.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.9Wkp53&s=p
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 11:57:18 pm »
Couple of piccys from a  quiet country road, they are much better IRL

DIP



MAIN
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 01:18:59 am »
Thhe listing states 6000 to 6500k, the box says 6000k.  I do accept that's not to everyones taste but I have 6k LEDs as DRL & City light so like the uniform crisp white look.

My issue is just one of not wanting to attract unnecessary negative attention or looking aftermarket.  Since HID was introduced, the aftermarket went crazy with bluer and bluer and bluer bulbs.  Rather than "upgrading" to something that looks like a modern OEM and performs well, people just wanted to stand out.  It is like "if low profile tires are on higher-performance cars, then I should put super, super, super, super low profile tires on", and they handle like s***; or "if higher performance cars have larger mufflers, then I would put one on my tiny 4 cylinder that is twice as large", and it sounds stupid and cuts performance  (here we call this phenomenon  "rice" or "ricers").  Same thing with the lights- anything beyond 5000K is actually DIMMER and less effective.  But it seems that ALL the LED aftermarket bulbs are now settling on around 6000K, so there might not be any choice.

Quote
Note they are also 80w

I would have to throw a meter on there to be sure about that.  I have seen all kinds of crazy wattage claims about LED bulbs and went through that with marker lights.  Even the alibaba listing says 35W and not 40W, then promptly says 25W further down the page.  My conclusion is that it is usually about half what the claims are.  I believe 80W of quality LED power consumption is equivalent to maybe around 700 watts of incandescent/halogen light, or 1,400 watts per pair... doesn't seem quite right, does it?   Crazy stuff.

Quote
Yes they are double sided, total of 16 chips. Marked Lumiled but are they ?  I can't honestly say but I do like the results

I figured it would have to be, but just wanted to be sure.  I mentioned the "Lumiled" because it seems to be a key word that ends up on the brands being resold.

Quote
The first ones you listed look to be  identical (there is a small section in there about rotating to LHD or RHD position)

Thanks, I missed that.  Funny that the listing doesn't highlight or elaborate that major feature or show a photo that reveals it.  So I now wonder if the Amazon listing is the same.

Quote
Something I didn't mention which is a nice touch, they have put heatsink paste (similar to that used for computer processors) on the threads of the heatsink

A passive heat sink is not going to be as effective as an active one... and if it is removable, it really has to have thermal paste to make sure the heat is conducted.  If they didn't include it and mention its use is required, I would have seriously questioned the validity of the design.

Quote
For reference these appear to be the same items direct from the Chinese suppliers

LOL- My friend is all about alibaba :)   Just about everything is made in China... it is crazy how you can find the source on Alibaba and then see the exact same thing sold under a dozen other "brands" (sometimes even well-known names).  BTW- LOTS of good info on that page.  Thanks for that link.

DIP

DIP vs. Main?  Not familiar with that terminology.  Is that High beams vs. low beams?

Do let us know about your experience at the testing station.  Quite curious.  Oh, I also meant to add that I know my HID produces a lot of annoying scatter, but I only get "flashed" maybe a few times a year... so not being flashed on a 10 min ride (or a whatever single length ride) probably doesn't mean much.  But maybe across the pond they are more aggressive at such things?
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 02:54:58 am »
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 05:45:41 am »
Hmm these are the  "proper" Philips units

Yep, ran across them a few times during research.  $366, now THAT is expensive :)  Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/H4-Philips-12953BWX2-LED-Bulbs/dp/B013DHXKK8
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2017, 06:05:50 am »
Very interesting and glad to see some are making huge gains in retrofit LED lighting. The originals were 'light sticks' with LEDs on three sides blowing light everywhere.

The rotating LED mount is very clever too as it allows the same hardware to be used in RHD and LHD countries, as well as just going for a flat cut- off which is very close to what high- end Japanese HID projectors generally shoot for.

If you can, it would be great to see a light projection photo against a light colored wall or similar. From about 25 feet and with the bike on the centerstand usually shows the pattern very clearly.

Thanks for taking the time to make the posts including the excellent photos.

Brian

Ok just couldn't resist tinkering (and I will accept that the GTRs stock headlights are one of the best OEM fitments I've come across) however I haven't gone down the HID install route I murmured about previously.

Instead after doing some research on the different types of H4 LED options available I opted for a set of Lumiled fitted ones. Mine came from here and admittedly weren't cheap.(both more expensive & cheaper options were available)

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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 10:00:30 am »
Didn't get a chance to call in at the garage and will have to be out when its a bit darker (& dryer lol) before I can take a pic against a wall.


In the meantime, white lights up front :)

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 11:40:24 am »
Not to rain on your parade Mike, or in any trying to disparage your or your opinions but.... Those Philip LED H4 lamps are rated for 1,000 lumens, which is slightly less than a halogen high performance lamp, and considerably less than a halogen H4 +80 or +90. The LED is cool technology but does not seem to produce any more or even as much useful light as compared with readily available and relatively inexpensive halogen lamps.

Just as a comparison, D2 HIDs are rated at between 3,000 and 3,200 lumens. And the retrofit HIDs work pretty well, actually surprisingly well, in a C-14 headlight bucket, at least in my opinion and experience. As I said, the LED technology is interesting and obviously it will continue to improve but right at the moment, HIDs are the better choice for a C-14.

Brian

Dip - Main
Hi -Lo
Same horse different jockey  8)


Hmm these are the  "proper" Philips units

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Pair-Philips-H4-6200K-X-treme-Ultinon-LED-High-Low-Beam-Headlight-Lamp-/252682547636?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2017, 11:51:51 am »
Not to rain on your parade Mike, or in any trying to disparage your or your opinions but.... Those Philip LED H4 lamps are rated for 1,000 lumens, which is slightly less than a halogen high performance lamp, and considerably less than a halogen H4 +80 or +90. The LED is cool technology but does not seem to produce any more or even as much useful light as compared with readily available and relatively inexpensive halogen lamps.

Just as a comparison, D2 HIDs are rated at between 3,000 and 3,200 lumens. And the retrofit HIDs work pretty well, actually surprisingly well, in a C-14 headlight bucket, at least in my opinion and experience. As I said, the LED technology is interesting and obviously it will continue to improve but right at the moment, HIDs are the better choice for a C-14.

Brian

Hi Brian,

don't particularly care what the numbers say but riding on unlit roads at night with the LEDs fitted was better than with the already excellent halogens :D

As for HID if I was going back down that rabbit hole then it would be  via the projector route not the filament replacement route.

Video of HID Projector Install
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 04:46:42 pm »
Not to rain on your parade Mike, or in any trying to disparage your or your opinions but.... Those Philip LED H4 lamps are rated for 1,000 lumens, which is slightly less than a halogen high performance lamp, and considerably less than a halogen H4 +80 or +90. The LED is cool technology but does not seem to produce any more or even as much useful light as compared with readily available and relatively inexpensive halogen lamps.

Just as a comparison, D2 HIDs are rated at between 3,000 and 3,200 lumens. And the retrofit HIDs work pretty well, actually surprisingly well, in a C-14 headlight bucket, at least in my opinion and experience. As I said, the LED technology is interesting and obviously it will continue to improve but right at the moment, HIDs are the better choice for a C-14.

The specs for the three Lumileds models we have encountered (that all appear to be the same bulbs) in this thread (not counting the Philips which claims 1000LB 1250HB with 6 chips) say 4,000 lumens, 4,600 lumens, and 6,000 lumens per bulb with 8 chips.  The fact that the listings don't agree is troublesome, and one might question the validity of the claims.  The Lumileds do have more [supposedly identical LED] chips on them, but that would still theoretically bring them to only at least 1667 lumens HB by some simple extrapolation, if you based it on Phillip's numbers.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 05:40:25 pm »
Yep, I understand completely and do not disagree. But to do a realistic comparison, you would have to try on HIDs in the C-14 buckets.

I agree that projectors are the way to go- to the point where I actually put together an HID based projector retrofit into a C-14 housing: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10405.0  And this is not a 'fits into the H4 housing hole' retrofit but a true open the housing, toss the reflectors and mount a pair of 'real' (FX 35, bi- xenon projectors) into a C-14 housing. Reflectors cannot compete with projectors for the simple reason that projectors can use the light from a pair of 180 degree arcs, including the light emitted forward, while reflectors must limit the light used to a 180 X 90 (max., usually less) sphere. If memory serves, reflectors only have 26% of the light emitted available while projectors can exceed 50%.

That said, the retrofit bi-xenon H4 lamps in a stock C-14 housing do work surprisingly.... no, amazingly well and produce tremendous amounts of usable light while not increasing glare (the light above the cut- off line) by enough to matter, at least IMO.

And at this point in time, arc light produces the most amount of light per unit of energy so 35 watts of HID is far more than the 1.6 amps (at 13.5 I assume) that Philips is claiming their LEDs draw. And that does not take into account the significant energy lost to heat as is shown by the massive heat- sinks to cool the LEDs; HIDs require no such cooling and modern ballasts consume less than seven watts of power.

And so again, I am not knocking you or your findings here, merely pointing out what seems to me to be the current (no pun intended) situation. I enjoy these types of conversation as I always learn something and as always, it is a pleasure chatting with another 'lighting enthusiast' regarding the newest developments in any kind of lighting which is essential for safer night motorcycling IMO.

Brian

Hi Brian,

don't particularly care what the numbers say but riding on unlit roads at night with the LEDs fitted was better than with the already excellent halogens :D

As for HID if I was going back down that rabbit hole then it would be  via the projector route not the filament replacement route.

Video of HID Projector Install
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