Author Topic: H4 LED Fitment  (Read 14038 times)

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2017, 11:38:35 pm »


Agreed.  But HID kits don't have fixed light sources, they move.  And anything that can move can cause malpositioning for a variety of reasons.  That is why I said it is possible that HID can produce more glare than LED (or high output halogen); but it will depend on the kit, the age, the design, etc.

H4 HID Kits don't have fixed light sources. H7 etc do however as they aren't instant on then realistically they are limited to Dip/lo only


 :P
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2017, 11:54:40 am »
Mine just arrived minutes ago.  Even the box looks identical to Mikey's.  Here are the unboxing photos:
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2017, 11:55:35 am »
continued...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2017, 11:57:00 am »
continued.... (I am nothing if not thorough).

Note:  My adjustable tilt bulbs (scale of 1 to 13, with 7 being zero tilt) came set with a tilt of "6" from the box which is for left hand drive (US/CA/EU/most of the world).   I don't know if the vendor or factory set it, so it is a good idea to check it before installing (you will want "8" for RIGHT HAND DRIVE (UK/Japan- drive on left side of road) vehicles.   There are two allen bolts and an included wrench, just loosen them, rotate, and retighten both.   You know you have it backwards if the "kick up" in the pattern is on the side of opposing traffic.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:10:25 am by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2017, 12:33:06 pm »
continued.... (I am nothing if not thorough).

Note:  These bulbs come set with a tilt of "6" from the factory.  That is for RIGHT HAND DRIVE (UK/Japan- drive on left side of road).  So you will need to adjust them to "8" for LEFT HAND DRIVE (US/CA/EU/most of the world- drive on right side of road).  There are two allen bolts and an included wrench, just loosen them, rotate, and retighten both.  The instructions are labeled backwards for some reason (they say "left hand reference", which I have never heard of).  If you are unsure or don't believe me, just compare to your standard USA H4 bulbs.

If I get 5 I might put them to 7 which is a neutral position which actually more closely matches the standard halogen
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:29:48 am by mikeyw64 »
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2017, 12:43:19 pm »
If I get 5 I might put them to 6 which is a neutral position which actually more closely matches the standard halogen

If you get 5 what? 

On these bulbs, the scale is 1 to 13, "7" is a zero degree tilt.  I measured by eye, and "8" does appear to be a bit more tilt than a standard halogen bulb tilt.  There is no way I can really measure this stuff.  I might settle on 7.5 or something.  Not sure yet.

UPDATE:  8 is neutral
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:55:31 pm by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2017, 12:56:39 pm »
OK, here you go.  If ever you didn't believe me that specifications on most lights are pure marketing crap, this will prove it.  See the photo.  I have two meters, one measuring voltage, the other amps.  I powered the system with a lithium battery pack/jumper system.   I took four readings.  I included a pinout diagram for those also who want to test.

Bulb 1 high beam:  1.50A @ 12.20V = 18.30W
Bulb 1 low  beam:  1.49A @ 12.20V = 18.18W
Bulb 2 high beam:  1.51A @ 12.18V = 18.39W
Bulb 2 low beam:   1.50A @ 12.18V = 18.27W

The low and high beams are using a set of 8 identical LED chips at a time.  So the average is 18.29 Watts per bulb.  We now have a REAL number of power draw.  Keep in mind this is battery voltage, not alternator voltage, so the power draw COULD be different when installed on the bike, if they are regulating it differently in their magic box.  But I expect it to be similar.

Now look back at the label on the box... 160 Watts!!!   So please, someone explain to me how 18.29 Watts is 160 Watts?  Let me guess.... "Oh, we meant a pair and a pair LED's put out the halogen light equivalent of 160W!!"  Yeesh...

Anyway, think back to the listed wattages on the various listings I researched for these bulbs.... the claims were 35W, 40W, and 25W.  So even those are all bogus.  I plan on taking light intensity readings too...  so hang on.... :)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 10:22:33 am by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2017, 02:34:29 pm »
Up now, apparent peak brightness:

I covered the lenses on the bike with the same paper and then used a light meter app at various fixed distances to estimate the actually brightness of the three bulbs.  The results are not absolute but comparative (relative) numbers.  This is my conclusion:

Philips Xtreme halogen:  584
HID: 1200
LED: 650

So the LED is brighter than even the Philips Xtreme halogen, but only by about 11%.
The HID blows them both away, being 105% brighter than the Xtreme and 85% brighter than the LED.

Let there be no doubt that the time for LED has arrived.  It can easily compete with halogen bulbs of ANY type.

Please note this says NOTHING about total light emitted, only an estimate of the brightest spots.  It also says nothing about the light pattern or USABLE light on the road.  That will come later with road testing.  I CAN say that the high-beam pattern on the paper is far more robust and even with the LED and Xtreme bulbs than the HID.

And yes, these LEDs are way too blue for my taste.  But that was expected.  Unfortunately, the left HID bulb installation has the stock H4 connector buried where I can't get to it.  I have to start disassembling stuff.  I might not have time.  Will post comparison photos later.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2017, 02:59:15 pm »
If you get 5 what? 

On these bulbs, the scale is 1 to 13, "7" is a zero degree tilt.  I measured by eye, and "8" does appear to be a bit more tilt than a standard halogen bulb tilt.  There is no way I can really measure this stuff.  I might settle on 7.5 or something.  Not sure yet.

5 minutes
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2017, 03:13:50 pm »
Yep, HIDs produce the most light and because they are <virtually> a full- sphere light output, really shine (yeah, I know) when used with projectors, as do tungsten lamps.

LEDs are the most efficient and longest- lived, and are of course getting better at light output all the time.

Unfortunately, the cheapest usable lighting is still a tungsten bulb in a reflector, just like 1910, so we are still getting a lot of that in production vehicles, especially the less expensive vehicles.

Right now, I think the best way to go may well be LEDs in reflectors but several of them rather than one or two per side. There are some LED head-lighted vehicles showing up now and that is what they are doing- using relatively small lights and housings but more of them with several dedicated to both low and high beams.

Brian

Up now, apparent peak brightness:

I covered the lenses on the bike with the same paper and then used a light meter app at various fixed distances to estimate the actually brightness of the three bulbs.  The results are not absolute but comparative (relative) numbers.  This is my conclusion:

Philips Xtreme halogen:  584
HID: 1200
LED: 650

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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2017, 09:34:39 pm »
It took a long time, but I got the HID kit out and both LED bulbs in.  I did have a ride tonight, but mostly urban which is not the best for testing.  Might be several weeks before a rural night ride.  Light output is certainly lower and bluer.  For some reason, the cutoff is sharp on the right and kicked up some on the left... very confused so more fiddling needed.

So far, I think I probably made a mistake removing the HID kit (which is pretty much a permanent removal now) but it is livable.  The kit was aging- some of the wires had cuts in it, the high/low beams were wobbly and those cables were always coming unplugged, the igniter in the cowl would never stay mounted and was moving around, etc.  So I am trying to tell myself I had to remove it, anyway.

Lots of photos taken, but too tired now to do the 1+ hour worth of work editing, labeling, posting, etc.  Perhaps tomorrow.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2017, 05:43:43 am »
If you get 5 what? 

On these bulbs, the scale is 1 to 13, "7" is a zero degree tilt.  I measured by eye, and "8" does appear to be a bit more tilt than a standard halogen bulb tilt.  There is no way I can really measure this stuff.  I might settle on 7.5 or something.  Not sure yet.

I meant 7 lol
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Offline maxtog

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2017, 06:04:46 am »
I meant 7 lol

Do you remember what number it is set to right now?  In your photo it was "8", but I don't know if you changed it.  I am fairly certain I have the scale backwards for some reason (and will edit the other post).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2017, 06:28:08 am »
Do you remember what number it is set to right now?  In your photo it was "8", but I don't know if you changed it.  I am fairly certain I have the scale backwards for some reason (and will edit the other post).

I have it at 8 as per my original pics

Looking at it from the front I have 1 on the Left at the 9 oclock position sweeping clockwise through to 13 in the 3 oclock position
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Offline Conrad

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Re: H4 LED Fitment
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2017, 06:40:52 am »
It took a long time, but I got the HID kit out and both LED bulbs in.  I did have a ride tonight, but mostly urban which is not the best for testing.  Might be several weeks before a rural night ride.  Light output is certainly lower and bluer.  For some reason, the cutoff is sharp on the right and kicked up some on the left... very confused so more fiddling needed.

So far, I think I probably made a mistake removing the HID kit (which is pretty much a permanent removal now) but it is livable.  The kit was aging- some of the wires had cuts in it, the high/low beams were wobbly and those cables were always coming unplugged, the igniter in the cowl would never stay mounted and was moving around, etc.  So I am trying to tell myself I had to remove it, anyway.

Lots of photos taken, but too tired now to do the 1+ hour worth of work editing, labeling, posting, etc.  Perhaps tomorrow.

Sounds like you've done a lot of work and spent a lot of time on this Max? Well done!

Maybe you should spend some of that time flushing out the ancient brake/clutch fluids in your bike instead eh?     :stirpot:
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