Author Topic: Math Question  (Read 7641 times)

Offline Tree

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Math Question
« on: July 14, 2017, 06:50:40 pm »
TO ALL OF THE MATH NERDS OUT THERE:  I need help with the math.  If I averaged 32 mpg prior to the flash, and I am now getting what these photos suggest, how long will it take for the EVO flash to pay for itself?  What, if any, other information do you need to get the answer?

I'm bored.  Humor me.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 07:38:11 pm »
First of all, your display is broken. What are those words showing.... "FUEL LOW" and why are they there?  There, you can humor me back.  ;D

OK, 218.6 miles, divided by 4.807 gal., carry the two, square the result and factor in the Coriolis effect and I get.... 45.4753 MPG. Which does not make any sense if the only change was a re-flashed ECU but as you said, I am humoring you: 45.5 / 32 (forgive the rounding, you have bigger errors anyway) yields a ratio of: 1.4211. Now we take the cube root, convert to base 8 and the answer is.... I need to know how much the flash cost. There, it will take <some> miles to pay <some> amount for what is <not> resulting in a ~ 50% increase in fuel economy.

Hey, that was humorous.

Assuming the cost of fuel remains constant, we are going to have to do a little bit more math and fill in some of the unknown variables (flash cost) to answer your question. Inside of every large problem, a small problem is struggling to get out. Inside your current large problem (when you will be back in the black), the small problem is we need to know the cost of the flash. But I have my abacus all dusted off and ready to slide the balls as needed to get you a solution.

I do know how you can use more of the available fuel tank on that bike right now though.  :rotflmao:

Brian (and people think math is not fun. Sheesh!)

TO ALL OF THE MATH NERDS OUT THERE:  I need help with the math.  If I averaged 32 mpg prior to the flash, and I am now getting what these photos suggest, how long will it take for the EVO flash to pay for itself?  What, if any, other information do you need to get the answer?

I'm bored.  Humor me.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline tweeter55

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 07:50:30 pm »
 It is costing you approximately 2.889 cents per mile less now than it did before the flash.  At least, that's the number I'm coming up with.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 07:57:04 pm »
Excellent! Hey, between the two of us, I bet we could guess what the flash cost and give the OP a well calculated, incorrect answer!

Now I am humoring myself but will stop before I go blind.

Brian

It is costing you approximately 2.889 cents per mile less now than it did before the flash.  At least, that's the number I'm coming up with.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 08:17:24 pm »
You will save $350,  based entirely on those fuel costs and consumption you specified, in almost exactly 12,000 miles. $400 difference will occur at ~13,830 miles.

Again, I do not know what flash you have nor what it cost but one those two numbers ought to be close I think.

Hey, where did you go? You did not even stay around for the amusement.   ;D

Brian

TO ALL OF THE MATH NERDS OUT THERE:  I need help with the math.  If I averaged 32 mpg prior to the flash, and I am now getting what these photos suggest, how long will it take for the EVO flash to pay for itself?  What, if any, other information do you need to get the answer?

I'm bored.  Humor me.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 09:39:05 pm »
45.4753 MPG. Which does not make any sense if the only change was a re-flashed ECU but as you said, I am humoring you: 45.5 / 32

Agreed.  There are other factors at work.  No ECU flash is going to account for a difference in 13.5 MPG on the C14.  Either one or more of the measurements are inaccurate (more likely), or the style/type of riding changed drastically (less likely).  I would believe up to maybe 4MPG without much question.  5-6 with a little caution.  Anything higher with major skepticism.
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Offline Tree

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 10:30:53 pm »
Wow.  I think I touched a couple of nerves.  I paid $375 for the flash (SISF).  I rode at 80 mph highway for most of the miles commuting to/from work on straight flat slab.  The mileage is from 2 days of round trips.  I already know that the flash yielded improved fuel economy but there are other factors that bumped it up.  One being that I had to make an effort to not goose the throttle and play with the bike like I normally do.  Another factor being I stayed out of the hills and away from the twisties, so no rapid acceleration from this tank.

Thank you for taking the time to crunch the numbers and for minimizing the abuse.  I have never seen the trip ODO above 160 before being compelled to fuel up.  That was cool to see.  Will the flash pay for itself based upon improved fuel economy?  Probably in less than a year?

So ends the math problem and an aborted attempt at a bit of levity.

Tree
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 10:57:49 pm »
One being that I had to make an effort to not goose the throttle and play with the bike like I normally do.  Another factor being I stayed out of the hills and away from the twisties, so no rapid acceleration from this tank.

That can do it.

Quote
Will the flash pay for itself based upon improved fuel economy?

Yes.... eventually

Quote
Probably in less than a year?

Very unlikely.  I tend to see the 42MPG number as an average of averages for the C14, highway miles, stock.  So let's say you actually had an improvement of more like 3MPG.  Gas price varies a lot, but let's use $2.50/gal.  That is a change between $0.0595 to $.0555 per mile which is 0.4 cents per mile.  So $375 would be paid for in 93,750 miles.  Which, in my case (being I ride only about twice a week for a few hours each), would take about 20 years :)  If the improvement were 6MPG (which would be stretching it), it would take 46,875 miles.   
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 04:15:21 am »
?? ?? I think we have had some kind of miss- communication: I thought the whole thread was very amusing and did my best to bat the ball back over the net. ?? Probably those fine divisors between humor, sarcasm, twisted observances and similar that just do not play well with the written word, or at least the great unwashed is doing the writing (meaning me, not you or anyone else- this is exactly how you could take it as an insult while it was really a self- depreciating remark about my own limitations).

Fun, humor, not always so easy to see on the 'Net. Not speaking for anyone else, but nothing in this thread and nothing you said or asked 'touched a nerve'. I thought it was amusing and was trying to respond in kind. You made reference to 'math nerd' and 'humor me', so I responded with my best rendition of 'nerd' and did humor you; I was chuckling a bit as I responded. So again, this entire thread struck me as amusing and for dessert, I believe I answered your question, as best I could without knowing the cost. BTW, given the cost, the mileage you ask about is, I believe (may have made a mistake or three but I think this is right) 12,963 miles.

Again, I do not believe your attempt at levity was missed and certainly not mistaken for something offensive in the least. Humor and a bit of comradeship is WHY I participate here and I love running into posts such as yours. By all means, please do continue to post and whenever possible, throw in something that is amusing, even if it is only to amuse yourself.... and those of us who can or will will follow along.

Anyway, back on the bigger topic: things like this (the flash) are really hard to pin down as to how much they save; as you said, different types of riding, etc. mean a lot comparing a stock ECU with one that has been altered. Just my own opinion but while the money saved is all fine and well, I would be more interested in how I liked the thing directly; if you like the bike with the ECU flashed, and are going to keep it for a while, then that alone is more than worth the cost in my opinion. Then again, if you like the flash and actually ride the bike harder (Easy Boys!) because of it and actually LOSE some economy, that is a win in my opinion also. These bikes are too big, too tough on tires, too expensive to maintain to really use economy as a factor in owning or riding one; the fact is I can drive an SUV for less cost per mile than a C-14 but I do not think of it that way.

Anyway, as I said, no nerves touched on my end and absolutely no negative take- away from  your original post. Keep posting and I think you will find both that this is a nice, friendly forum and that a good deal of its charm is the sideways humor.

Brian

Wow.  I think I touched a couple of nerves.  I paid $375 for the flash (SISF).  I rode at 80 mph highway for most of the miles commuting to/from work on straight flat slab.  The mileage is from 2 days of round trips.  I already know that the flash yielded improved fuel economy but there are other factors that bumped it up.  One being that I had to make an effort to not goose the throttle and play with the bike like I normally do.  Another factor being I stayed out of the hills and away from the twisties, so no rapid acceleration from this tank.

Thank you for taking the time to crunch the numbers and for minimizing the abuse.  I have never seen the trip ODO above 160 before being compelled to fuel up.  That was cool to see.  Will the flash pay for itself based upon improved fuel economy?  Probably in less than a year?

So ends the math problem and an aborted attempt at a bit of levity.

Tree
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 04:22:25 am »
Just went back and re-read this thread: my posts are fully of smileys. I tried to show that I was being humorous.

BTW, the references to you display being broken and knowing how you could get more miles out of  a tank of fuel were left- hand references to a product I sell that modifies that part of the bike. Again, self- referencing stabs at humor, not digs at you or your bike, and I try not to hawk my products too much on the forum so I usually do not mention directly any references to them. That part may have been missed if you are not aware of them and may <seem> like sarcasm but really, it was not meant that way at all.

Brian
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Tree

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 06:38:14 am »
These board postings will never replace actual spoken verbal communication between us humans.  Stuff gets lost in translation and time.

Brian, I appreciate that you replied further and made an effort to smooth any perceived ruffled feathers.  I find it funny to note that shortly after I posted this math problem that it was replied to so quickly and repeatedly.  I didn't have the chance to participate in the traditional back and forth banter because I was away from the house for a few hours.  For you, I would guess, it's very much like sending a text to someone and expecting a reply that never comes (in the time frame that one expected).  Sometimes, for me anyhow, the longer it takes for me to receive a reply the more agitated I can get because of my expectations.  Then there are the tricks that my mind often plays with me while I impatiently wait for a response.  I will totally create some truly horrible alternative reasons as to why I had not heard from a person to whom I had reached out to and wrap myself around the proverbial axle.  That's something I'm going through at this time as a matter of fact.

I enjoyed reading the replies and found myself way behind in a conversation that took on a life of its own.  I missed out on the exchange of jabs and parries.  I further appreciate the time it took to put pencil to paper (finger to calculator) to crunch numbers.  Did I check your math?  Hell no!  That would have been an insult.  Besides, I trust that your abacus is accurate and has been calibrated to NIST standards.   Coriolis effect, really?  ;D

Tree
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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 08:16:42 am »
Just went back and re-read this thread: my posts are fully of smileys. I tried to show that I was being humorous.

...

Yeah, but ... but ... I thought those were sarcastic smileys  ???

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 09:44:53 am »
Nope. Do we have sarcastic smiles?

Hey Jim, can we get some sarcastic smiles around here?

 ;D

Brian

Yeah, but ... but ... I thought those were sarcastic smileys  ???
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 10:12:06 am »
It can get pretty close to in- person interaction but it takes longer to get to know the personalities involved. Also, just like in person, at least some people respond differently to different people. This thread is actually a good example of that: I actually responded a bit more sharply than I usually would, and maybe should have, to you, who I do not really know well at all.

Internet forums do have a tremendous advantage over personal contact in one way, we can all correspond with others sharing a similar interest literally all over the globe. I have been here since buying a relatively early C-14 in '07 and the internet community that formed around that new model was tremendously successful in learning about, and modifying the bike. Especially because it was a relatively advanced model with things such as the dreaded KiPass (read: bad ju-ju). I know I could have never gained as much knowledge probably ever, and certainly not what we collectively learned in, say, the first year, with only those C-14 owners I could talk with in person. And the fact is that while the perceived anonymity of the 'Net does bring out some pretty callous behavior, it also provides the occasional 'diamond' of information; when I was learning how to hang a Rostra on a C-14, there was a gentleman who had done a tremendous amount of truly excellent work on that device (the Rostra) while pioneering the install on an older Goldwing. A learned a lot about the unit from him even though most of it did not apply directly to a C-14. If memory serves, he was in southern California and I NEVER would have heard of him or his work without forums such as this one.

The time thingy is a bit of a problem because it is 'all over the place' with some replies going back and forth w/in minutes and other exchanges taking days. Same thing with e-mails; I correspond with a fair number of people about motorcycle stuff, mostly but not all C-14, and I just never know when I will get a response, if I will get a response, and if the response will contain information, progress, just more questions, a request for clarification on previous answers, etc.. One of the real problems is trying to strike that fine balance between complete explanation, sufficient to get the task accomplished, and too much simplification which wastes time and often annoys the other person who thinks he / she is being 'talked down to'. But how can I possibly know what another person knows, and where to start off with an explanation? Is saying 'splice into the gray wire' enough or does that person need more detailed instruction on how to splice? Can that person solder and does he / she have soldering tools? I have no idea. Organized education is way ahead because when going into 5th grade, it is assumed the student has completed grades 1 to 4 but when I help someone with a motorcycle problem, I have absolutely no idea at what level we are starting. BTW: I am in the middle of a house project and am now on the receiving end of that very situation, having electricians explain to me that residential power is "two phase" and so forth.

Coriolis effect: I like to participate in bowling pin shoots; really very simple, bowling pins are placed on a rigid plate, usually 5 pins per station, two stations next to each other and 'hot' at the same time. First one to clear all the pins from the stand wins that heat (and they have to be cleared, no knock- downs allowed if the pin is lying on the stand). At some ranges, the 'studio' audience calls out helpful suggestions (read: obnoxious insults, ridiculous 'facts', etc.) and one day someone called out to a shooter, after he had lost embarrassing badly, that perhaps he forgot to compensate for the Coriolis effect. The pins are 30 feet from the firing line, and just mentioning that struck me as funny enough that I thought I was going to wet my pants a little. Now the Coriolis effect does very much matter to some shooters but only after about 600 yards, and always with things such as artillery but not so much at 30 feet.  :rotflmao:

Brian

These board postings will never replace actual spoken verbal communication between us humans.  Stuff gets lost in translation and time.

Brian, I appreciate that you replied further and made an effort to smooth any perceived ruffled feathers.  I find it funny to note that shortly after I posted this math problem that it was replied to so quickly and repeatedly.  I didn't have the chance to participate in the traditional back and forth banter because I was away from the house for a few hours.  For you, I would guess, it's very much like sending a text to someone and expecting a reply that never comes (in the time frame that one expected).  Sometimes, for me anyhow, the longer it takes for me to receive a reply the more agitated I can get because of my expectations.  Then there are the tricks that my mind often plays with me while I impatiently wait for a response.  I will totally create some truly horrible alternative reasons as to why I had not heard from a person to whom I had reached out to and wrap myself around the proverbial axle.  That's something I'm going through at this time as a matter of fact.

I enjoyed reading the replies and found myself way behind in a conversation that took on a life of its own.  I missed out on the exchange of jabs and parries.  I further appreciate the time it took to put pencil to paper (finger to calculator) to crunch numbers.  Did I check your math?  Hell no!  That would have been an insult.  Besides, I trust that your abacus is accurate and has been calibrated to NIST standards.   Coriolis effect, really?  ;D

Tree
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2017, 01:10:16 pm »
Nope. Do we have sarcastic smiles?

Hey Jim, can we get some sarcastic smiles around here?

 ;D

Brian

Someone shows me a sarcastic smiley and I'll get it...

As far as the flash goes, my MPG improved by several miles a gallon.  I don't know about math..

This isn't a smiley but it reminds me of Poke.
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