Author Topic: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting  (Read 33424 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« on: February 14, 2018, 03:48:04 pm »
Reports are sketchy right now but it looks like a student went on a shooting spree in either a high school or a group of high schools in Broward County, Florida today. Some fatalities as well as additional injuries reported. Suspect in police custody.

Very sad news. As a parent myself (both children grown but one is married to a public school teacher so I <sort of> have 'someone' in public school in the US), I cannot imagine the anguish of all the parents that have had to go through this ordeal, and of course, the far worse ordeal for some of that that will continue on after today.

I think at this point in our history, about the only effective thing we can do that will have rapid, effective results will be to restrict access to public schools and screen ALL personnel entering via metal detector. Not airport security, just a metal detector that everyone must go through. It is the only thing I can think of that would work immediately and with enough reliability to be worth doing.

If there is anyone on this forum who has anyone involved in this tragedy, my very deepest and sincerest condolences. These things should not happen but they do, and I think we have to now take more stringent measures to try and prevent future instances of this happening.

Brian
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Offline lather

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 05:29:26 pm »
17 fatalities I just heard on TV from Broward County Sheriff. Horribly sad...
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 12:16:22 am »
The BBC is reporting at least 17 fatalities.


What's also sad is that its only the 7th week of the year and this is already the sixth school shooting incident in 2018 that has either wounded or killed students.


Edit: Another news site I've read it on (The Guardian) says its at least the 8th this year

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Offline Rick Hall

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 01:23:33 am »
This is a hot button subject. I must remind everyone to be civil in you replies, and think twice before you hit the "post" button.

Rick
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Offline Conrad

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 04:18:55 am »
So incredibly sad.
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Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 05:24:22 am »
Thoughts and prayers to Parkland, FL and now let's get back to worshiping our guns.  :banghead:
(Hope that was civil enough.)
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 05:30:55 am »
Civil but I'm unable to find any alter with a gun on it.
Thank God for good men willing to do extreme violence.

Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 05:39:55 am »
My bad. I thought an altar with guns was mandatory for gun enthusiasts. Look in your man cave, if you have one. :)
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 05:43:56 am »
This is a hot button subject. I must remind everyone to be civil in you replies, and think twice before you hit the "post" button.

Rick


Very sound advice...
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 05:51:09 am »
Thoughts and prayers to Parkland, FL and now let's get back to worshiping our guns.  :banghead:
(Hope that was civil enough.)

Nobody here, that I am aware of, worships guns.  Many cherish their rights, though.

So now cue the call for more "gun control" laws that would NOT have prevented this tragedy (in a "gun free zone") but WILL make it harder for good people.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 06:10:51 am »
My bad. I thought an altar with guns was mandatory for gun enthusiasts. Look in your man cave, if you have one. :)
So what do you put on the alter in your batcave?  Maybe it's where you worship at the alter of global warming?
...or where you strive for Nirvana or a socialist utopia maybe. Or are we now both being a bit ridiculous?
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 06:15:52 am »
Unfortunately, the reports I have heard have all said that this is the 18th 'school shooting' in the US in 2018 (not all mass shootings of course). Although there are 22,000 high schools in the US. In this same amount of time, we have had over 5,000 road deaths also in the US.

Apparently the perpetrator was not even a student at the school although he had been previously.

Controlled entrances and metal detectors alone would have kept not only the firearm but even the magazines and ammunition from ever having entered the school. While it is unfortunate, I do think it is time we do this at all public schools.

Brian

The BBC is reporting at least 17 fatalities.


What's also sad is that its only the 7th week of the year and this is already the sixth school shooting incident in 2018 that has either wounded or killed students.


Edit: Another news site I've read it on (The Guardian) says its at least the 8th this year
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 06:38:13 am »
Controlled entrances and metal detectors alone would have kept not only the firearm but even the magazines and ammunition from ever having entered the school. While it is unfortunate, I do think it is time we do this at all public schools.

As much as I don't like it, it would be one of the few things that could be done that would have any effectiveness at all.  Uncontrolled "gun free" zones are the most dangerous zones anywhere because bad people carry anyway, and good people usually don't.  Controlled "gun free" zones are a different matter- those are where there is a hard perimeter, has armed guards, and everyone going into the zone is meaningfully searched.  It is very draconian, but that is the trade-off.  Doing such a thing at all public schools would be extremely expensive (and oppressive)...  And it is likely such a perpetrator of violence would just target a different zone.
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 07:45:13 am »
I think it's the 18th shooting incident this year in total but the 6th (or 8th depending who's counting) one where people were injured or killed.


The rest were firearms discharges in or around school grounds


Unfortunately, the reports I have heard have all said that this is the 18th 'school shooting' in the US in 2018 (not all mass shootings of course). Although there are 22,000 high schools in the US. In this same amount of time, we have had over 5,000 road deaths also in the US.

Apparently the perpetrator was not even a student at the school although he had been previously.

Controlled entrances and metal detectors alone would have kept not only the firearm but even the magazines and ammunition from ever having entered the school. While it is unfortunate, I do think it is time we do this at all public schools.

Brian
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 07:47:04 am »
Oddly enough that's the sort of thing you saw in Mad Max: Beyond the Thunderdome as well as other films of the genre.


Everyone has to hand their weapons in at the door except for the official "security" people


As much as I don't like it, it would be one of the few things that could be done that would have any effectiveness at all.  Uncontrolled "gun free" zones are the most dangerous zones anywhere because bad people carry anyway, and good people usually don't.  Controlled "gun free" zones are a different matter- those are where there is a hard perimeter, has armed guards, and everyone going into the zone is meaningfully searched.  It is very draconian, but that is the trade-off.  Doing such a thing at all public schools would be extremely expensive (and oppressive)...  And it is likely such a perpetrator of violence would just target a different zone.
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Offline turbojoe78

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 08:02:51 am »
Maybe we could start looking into having the school safety officers being armed.

Good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun.

Maybe even start letting qualified teachers conceal carry?

More good guys with guns to stop bad guys with guns.

I'm very sorry for all the parents and relatives who will have to live through this tragedy.

And, yes, I'm sorry if I have offended any gun control fanatics but my answer is in fact having more guns in the hands of good guys who have been vetted and are qualified to use them.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 08:21:37 am »
My bad. I thought an altar with guns was mandatory for gun enthusiasts. Look in your man cave, if you have one. :)
sanmo, here's a pic of our last NRA meeting...
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 09:03:40 am »
Yep, could be. Again, because this is such a polarizing issue here, the way statistics and facts are presented is often done so in such a way to put a spin on the facts. Of course no school shooting that caused no harm would not be reported as such, it would merely be grouped in with all of them and stated as a final number, while specifically discussing the or one of the most extreme examples.

It is very difficult to analyse data for some of these very hotly disputed issues because it would require doing things such as separating firearm deaths into, say, two groups: negative and positive. Which certainly sounds odd on the surface but consider that many shooting deaths in the US are done with cause and reason by police, and often done in the middle of stopping some type of major crime; such a firearm death is difficult to put into a slot because even if one would try and consider it a beneficial act, the <more> beneficial and desirable outcome would be the capture and arrest of that same individual. Plus any further deaths that that perpetrator might have caused has he / she not been stopped with a firearm are speculative and unprofitable even if obvious.

A difficult subject to discuss because emotions come to the surface almost immediately and cloud all subsequent logic and reason. If we try to eliminate the emotion and move forward with the discussion and reasoning, everyone involved starts to sound like a psychopath.

Brian

I think it's the 18th shooting incident this year in total but the 6th (or 8th depending who's counting) one where people were injured or killed.


The rest were firearms discharges in or around school grounds
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 09:14:34 am »
Let me start off my reply by saying I am firmly on the pro- gun side of the gun control issue.

I am wary of arming any significant number of people in crowded, public places, especially closed- in places, simply because the potential for collateral shooting victims would increase, at least IMO. No amount of training or skill will prevent the shooting of the wrong people by mistake, or even the shooting of unintended people in addition to shooting the 'right' person(s) due to over penetration.

I hear what you are saying, and I do believe it would be effective but I am wary of the peripheral costs of such an approach, again in a densely populated, confined area.

The controlled entrance(s) and metal detectors method is also certainly not desirable in the least but I think it might be the only thing that would prove effective immediately.

The desirable thing would be to simply have people behave better but it does not look like that is possible. Which leaves any and all other methods as being undesirable but perhaps the only way to increase safety. Exactly the way air travel has very negative and undesirable security aspects now in an effort to increase air travel safety.

Frankly, I do not think there really is a 'good' solution to this problem and that is the most unfortunate aspect of all IMO. I do not like problems without solutions and suspect no one does but that is what this appears to be: a problem without a solution, only undesirable ways to address it with unknown costs, though they will be substantial, and unknown benefits.

Brian

Maybe we could start looking into having the school safety officers being armed.

Good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun.

Maybe even start letting qualified teachers conceal carry?

More good guys with guns to stop bad guys with guns.

I'm very sorry for all the parents and relatives who will have to live through this tragedy.

And, yes, I'm sorry if I have offended any gun control fanatics but my answer is in fact having more guns in the hands of good guys who have been vetted and are qualified to use them.
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Offline jimmymac

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 03:13:34 pm »
I'm glad I'm 50, and not 5.
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