Author Topic: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting  (Read 18300 times)

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #150 on: February 27, 2018, 03:22:37 pm »
It was probably more the norm in the roaring twenties ;)




I know they are available, but I was pointing out that 1) that is not the norm., either on the range or in a mass shooting and 2) have you ever seen any drum type magazine used in a mass shooting?

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #151 on: February 27, 2018, 03:28:44 pm »
And that 100 round Thompson rotary magazine was not the norm for that sub- machine gun either, the 50 round straight magazine was. The round magazine was specifically rejected for military use because it was found to be unreliable.

Brian

It was probably more the norm in the roaring twenties ;)



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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #152 on: February 27, 2018, 03:31:53 pm »
A Columbine shooting survivor and current Colorado state representative is pushing to end gun- free school zones so school personnel can be armed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/19/colorado-congressman-columbine-survivor-pushes-to-end-gun-free-zones-in-schools.html

I merely present this as an interesting idea. As I said before, I have reservations about arming a lot of people in public schools; I am not against it per se but I am wary that the personnel would have sufficient training and practice to do more harm than good.

Brian
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Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #153 on: February 27, 2018, 03:32:48 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/us/aurora-gunmans-lethal-arsenal.html

The drum type magazine used in the Aurora, CO theater shooting.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #154 on: February 27, 2018, 03:35:36 pm »
sorry
I was adding this to my original post,
when you posted

oh, they have been used in nefarious events.... like Aurora... but the mag jammed....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting


But mind you, I am all about others not saying I can't own a gun based on it's color, or manufacture, or it's capacity...

I enjoy my firearms....

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #155 on: February 27, 2018, 03:36:12 pm »
Yes, it appears you are correct. But in that same article, it says he used that rifle and drum magazine until it jammed. As I said about the Thompson, they tend to be unreliable, so that rather negates the point that such large but unusual magazines are available.

Brian

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/us/aurora-gunmans-lethal-arsenal.html

The drum type magazine used in the Aurora, CO theater shooting.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #156 on: February 27, 2018, 03:45:08 pm »
Yes, that is apparently correct but I was not aware of it until it was posted in this thread just a while ago.

But my point in all of this about magazine capacity is really this: if magazine capacity is limited to, say, 10 rounds, what will be the result? In my view, it will not stop these terrible tragedies and miss use of a firearm but it may reduce the number of victims but does that really gut us anywhere. I mean if the number of victims at Sandy Hook was reduced from 26 to, say, 18, would that be considered a 'win'? Would it console the families of the (say) 18 victims that more were not killed due to reduced magazine capacity? If the thought is continued, let us say that 'large capacity' magazines are actually removed, and throw in AR-15's as well. No more AR-15's and no more 20, 30 or other large magazines exist. But these same people will simply use a different tool to do the same thing, and if future events are reduced in number, is that really our goal? Those now calling for banning AR-15s will then call for the banning of the next firearm used in a mass shooting, exactly as happened in Australia. And while some people certainly want all firearms removed from the public's hands, I do not think it will happen anytime in the near future in the US.

I am trying to think about ways to address the problem in its entirely, not reduce the statistical happenings.

Brian

sorry
I was adding this to my original post,
when you posted

oh, they have been used in nefarious events.... like Aurora... but the mag jammed....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting


But mind you, I am all about others not saying I can't own a gun based on it's color, or manufacture, or it's capacity...

I enjoy my firearms....
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #157 on: February 27, 2018, 03:45:14 pm »
Some interesting alternatives that I haven't seen discussed here such as "not naming the shooter" and "having 2 doors in every classroom"


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43118865


I actually tend to agree with everything on that list, except #6, which of course, would lead to much higher [ban-on-good] gun violence, overall.  (I would also need exact details on #5 before giving it my thumbs up).

There is absolutely no question in my mind that this shooting was a copy-cat.
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Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #158 on: February 27, 2018, 03:45:49 pm »
sorry
I was adding this to my original post,
when you posted

oh, they have been used in nefarious events.... like Aurora... but the mag jammed....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting


But mind you, I am all about others not saying I can't own a gun based on it's color, or manufacture, or it's capacity...

I enjoy my firearms....

Yeah, my post kept getting blown up because the quote was being altered by you! Good thing, because I had some nasty stuff in there which is best left unsaid.  ;D
Now if the AR-15 is in pink do you think it will be less "scary" or  "evil" looking?  8)
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #159 on: February 27, 2018, 03:58:21 pm »
I'm glad we think alike in that matter and in our choice of bikes. To help educate me, why do you have a CC permit and presumably carry a gun?

Not addressed to me, but I will ask you questions in return and see what you think:

Why do you wear proper riding gear on a bike?
Why do you wear a seatbelt in a car?
Why do you check both ways before crossing the street?
Why do you read the warning labels on a drug before taking it?
Why do you lock your doors on your house?
Why do you buy life insurance?
Why did you buy a fire extinguisher or have smoke detectors?
Why would you be aware of your surroundings while using an ATM?
Why do you perhaps wash your hands after shaking people's hands or maybe shopping?
Why would you keep your wallet in a secure area and keep it with you at all times?
Why would you put a lock code on your phone?
Why would you not write your passwords on a card you carry?
Why would you carry a spare tire or an inflation kit on your vehicle?
Why would you not want to walk around the neighborhood at night without a phone and flashlight?
Why do you look through your peephole before opening your door?

You don't have to assume everyone is evil or bad or dangerous or that every situation will be negative to take sensible precautions.   A threat might be very rare but also extremely dangerous... or it might be more common and yet less dangerous.  Either way, one might decide to take steps to mitigate those.

The overwhelming majority of the concealed carry permit owners *I* know, are the nicest, most trust-worthy, friendly, moral, and good people I have ever known.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #160 on: February 27, 2018, 04:31:49 pm »
Not addressed to me, but I will ask you questions in return and see what you think:

Why do you wear proper riding gear on a bike?
Why do you wear a seatbelt in a car?
Why do you check both ways before crossing the street?
Why do you read the warning labels on a drug before taking it?
Why do you lock your doors on your house?
Why do you buy life insurance?
Why did you buy a fire extinguisher or have smoke detectors?
Why would you be aware of your surroundings while using an ATM?
Why do you perhaps wash your hands after shaking people's hands or maybe shopping?
Why would you keep your wallet in a secure area and keep it with you at all times?
Why would you put a lock code on your phone?
Why would you not write your passwords on a card you carry?
Why would you carry a spare tire or an inflation kit on your vehicle?
Why would you not want to walk around the neighborhood at night without a phone and flashlight?
Why do you look through your peephole before opening your door?

You don't have to assume everyone is evil or bad or dangerous or that every situation will be negative to take sensible precautions.   A threat might be very rare but also extremely dangerous... or it might be more common and yet less dangerous.  Either way, one might decide to take steps to mitigate those.

The overwhelming majority of the concealed carry permit owners *I* know, are the nicest, most trust-worthy, friendly, moral, and good people I have ever known.

Fair enough. To the extent that I take any or all of the precautions that you listed, I take them all the time, without fail. Do you carry your personal protection firearm all the time or is it situational? I am counting on your candor, now.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #161 on: February 27, 2018, 04:50:26 pm »
Fair enough. To the extent that I take any or all of the precautions that you listed, I take them all the time, without fail. Do you carry your personal protection firearm all the time or is it situational? I am counting on your candor, now.

I carry almost all the time when not inside my house.  It doesn't do any good if you don't have it with you (even if you have it- it might not do any good).  Usually without any real thought, the same way I carry my phone, wallet, glasses, or hat.  On the very rare case of forgetting it, I might feel odd for a short time, but don't obsess over it.  I don't perform a mental situational exercise and determine when to or not to carry or what to carry based on perceived threat.  I can't speak for others out there, but I am guessing most CCP holders are similar.

I love the old saying "the best camera is the one you have with you".

The only exception [to thinking about it or obsessing over it] being when I know I will expect to encounter a so-called "gun free" zone.  That totally screws with normality and certainly makes me uncomfortable because, statistically, that is where one MOST needs to be armed.  At that point, no choice is easy.  If there was only ONE thing I could change [with gun control]- that would be it... elimination of all "gun free" zones for CCP holders.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #162 on: February 27, 2018, 05:10:01 pm »
after 30 years, we see the exact same thing, and listen to the exact same "why/how come/lets change the laws/change the laws .. how did that help?'" scenario repeat itself.. the handwriting was on the wall, then as it was in the recent event, and the "ball droppers" and Cowards we rely upon to "prevent" and protect.. well.. same thing again...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(Stockton)

a few friends and I hit a gunshow a couple days after, and loaded up on SKS's. Ak's and ammo, before the price went sky high about 2 weeks following. It was easily a decade before prices for these ever dropped...

once a criminal... always a criminal?/
I'd say so... from age 11 and 13...and released?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Johnson_and_Andrew_Golden

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Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #163 on: February 27, 2018, 05:14:22 pm »
I carry almost all the time when not inside my house.  It doesn't do any good if you don't have it with you (even if you have it- it might not do any good).  Usually without any real thought, the same way I carry my phone, wallet, glasses, or hat.  On the very rare case of forgetting it, I might feel odd for a short time, but don't obsess over it.  I don't perform a mental situational exercise and determine when to or not to carry or what to carry based on perceived threat.  I can't speak for others out there, but I am guessing most CCP holders are similar.

I love the old saying "the best camera is the one you have with you".

The only exception [to thinking about it or obsessing over it] being when I know I will expect to encounter a so-called "gun free" zone.  That totally screws with normality and certainly makes me uncomfortable because, statistically, that is where one MOST needs to be armed.  At that point, no choice is easy.  If there was only ONE thing I could change [with gun control]- that would be it... elimination of all "gun free" zones for CCP holders.

I dunno. Allowing carrying in an establishment serving liquor does not sound like a great idea. There is a reason even good guys are not allowed to drive drunk.
Getting back to the general topic of carrying, let's assume you carry all the time, without fail. Now either every member of your family and other loved ones must also carry a personal firearm or you must accompany them for protection each and everytime they step out of the home. Which of those is true? I personally would have some 'splaining to do if I carried a gun and let my wife and son remain unprotected.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #164 on: February 27, 2018, 06:15:54 pm »
ok
here's the list... I went down thru it...
tell us just how many of these occurrences were committed with an AR type rifle....

I think you will be surprised...

and then toss it back to the "we gotta change your rights, and the laws we don't enforce anyways..." whiners, and tell them all to BAN Glock handguns (LEO's will love that one), and any other "pistol"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States


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