Author Topic: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting  (Read 21849 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #210 on: March 06, 2018, 06:24:39 am »
Agreed, many parts of the Constitution are vague, and many thing are simply not addressed by the Constitution at all (an entire area of study unto itself- what does it mean when something is [not in] the Constitution). But the writers of the documents are well known by other writings, and I believe one can easily get a sense or overall feeling as to the intention of each section of those documents. Personally, I find too much emphasis on a single word, or word order, etc. when a slightly more distant view actually works better to get the 'flavor' of what was written and especially, ratified by 'the people'.

The documents are now so dated that they must be interpreted and the ideas and ideals in them applied, not taken literally. For example: does one have a right to expect private communication when using e-mail? What did the 'founding fathers' think of e-mail and its use? That is why we have a Supreme Court, to deliberate over these things and fit the ideals into the current world. And overall, I think they do an outstanding job of it though many of their more middle- of- the- road judgments leave both sides of some issues unhappy (abortion, not gun control, comes immediately to mind as an example of that).

At this point in time, no one has any chance of wiping out the second Amendment of our Constitution. All of the arguments are about the finer points of it: does 'bear' mean carry around in a shopping mall? In some states it does, in some states it does not. What exactly is an 'arm' as referenced by 2A? Is it anthrax or never gas? No, and no one is arguing or fighting to get those included. No, our arguments are on much finger points such as can magazine size be limited? Should it be limited? Are some types of firearms that are functionally identical to other types to be singled out and withheld from the general public? These are the questions of today, not whether or not we should have a 2A or if it applies to individuals or 'militias'.

Brian

Let's be honest, nobody knows what was in the minds of the people who drew up the original US Constitution other than the words they left behind and they're open to interpretation.

If the same thing was drawn up today , in a world where public opinion and communications are so much different then would the wording have been made more precise? (although that leads to it's own problems)

Yes it may be classed as preamble but it sets the scene. It doesn't start off by saying " For the purposes of allowing home defence," or  "For the purposes of preventing the Government suppressing the People,"

NB its not a separate sentence, its part of the bigger sentence as it is separated by a comma not a full stop (or period). The Second amendment is one sentence.
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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #211 on: March 06, 2018, 04:21:41 pm »
Agreed, many parts of the Constitution are vague, and many thing are simply not addressed by the Constitution at all (an entire area of study unto itself- what does it mean when something is [not in] the Constitution).

Actually, that is addressed pretty clearly in the Bill of Rights as Amendment 10:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So anything not specifically given to the Fed (or denied the States) is a power of the States or the People (citizens).  The tricky part is figuring out what exactly IS given to the Fed in the document.   IMHO- most of the Federal laws on the books are probably not at all Constitutional if the principles were applied "correctly".  The Fed was supposed to be VERY small, with VERY limited powers.  Perfect example- ANYTHING in the Fed that has to do with education or health care is clearly State powers, not Federal.  I believe the founding Fathers, even given years of background and history and context of today, would STILL be horrified by what the Federal government has become.

Quote
But the writers of the documents are well known by other writings, and I believe one can easily get a sense or overall feeling as to the intention of each section of those documents.

Exactly.  That greatly helps putting it into context.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #212 on: March 06, 2018, 04:39:42 pm »
Spent this afternoon at my State House, 'standing up' for the cause regarding new bills being introduced into both houses (State Senate, State House of Representatives). Excellent Pro 2A (Pro- Second Amendment, in other words, pro- gun for those not in the US or familiar with the cryptic term) turnout, clogged up the works pretty well and several people involved told me the turnout was better than 10:1 on the pro- 2A side. We will see.....

I might even be on the news as I was standing right next to a gentleman who had a particularly antagonistic sign he was holding up. We are on the same side of the issue but I really do not think being antagonistic or worse yet, threatening, is the best way forward. His sign was absolutely the former and a bit of the latter and I honestly doubt it will win many 'hearts and minds' of those in the middle on this issue. Just my opinion of course.

Of course all this legislation is to limit / remove firearms in some way or another. It is now 6 March, closing in on four weeks since the FL school shootings and to the best of my knowledge, there has been no large scale, concerted effort to make public schools in the US any safer. Firearms legislation <may> work at some point in the future but limited access and screening of everyone entering a public school would ALREADY be working had there been a serious effort in that direction. And by serious, I mean federally sanctioned, federally posted guidelines on how to do it and federal direction and financial underwriting of such a thing. But here we are.....

Brian
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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #213 on: March 06, 2018, 04:49:40 pm »
Spent this afternoon at my State House, 'standing up' for the cause regarding new bills being introduced into both houses (State Senate, State House of Representatives). Excellent Pro 2A (Pro- Second Amendment, in other words, pro- gun for those not in the US or familiar with the cryptic term) turnout, clogged up the works pretty well and several people involved told me the turnout was better than 10:1 on the pro- 2A side. We will see.....

I [and many others] do the same thing every year at the General Assembly (VA).  There it is more like 100:1 on the pro-2A rights side.  We completely swarm the building- and CCP's are allowed to carry there, too.  But it is always a continuous fight.  It takes but a blink of an eye for rights to disappear or erode to nothing.  Getting rights back later is always a LOT more difficult than keeping them in the first place.
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #214 on: March 07, 2018, 12:49:23 am »
Be interesting to see if the "March for Our Lives" on 24th March will sway anyone/lead to further changes?


Yes I know that everytown (who are part of this along with the NeverAgain movement)  are  the polar opposite to you guys in the NRA and that many of you you disapprove of them but they do have exactly the same Constitutional rights to express themselves as you do.

Also aware that many people claim that Cameron Kasky etc may be "plants" , I have no idea. WHat I do know is that kids these days are far more savvy and have grown up with social media more and it is the youth that will eventually decide what their future will be.


 

Of course all this legislation is to limit / remove firearms in some way or another. It is now 6 March, closing in on four weeks since the FL school shootings and to the best of my knowledge, there has been no large scale, concerted effort to make public schools in the US any safer. Firearms legislation <may> work at some point in the future but limited access and screening of everyone entering a public school would ALREADY be working had there been a serious effort in that direction. And by serious, I mean federally sanctioned, federally posted guidelines on how to do it and federal direction and financial underwriting of such a thing. But here we are.....

Brian
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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2018, 05:13:57 pm »
March 20:  "Good Guy with Gun Opened Fire on MD High School Shooter, Ended Threat"

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/20/good-guy-gun-opened-fire-md-high-school-shooter-end-threat/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/20/shooting-at-great-mills-high-school-in-maryland-school-confirms.html

And then, the ultra-left CNN version; full of emotion, sad quotes, and the obligatory focus on how it is [supposedly] the 17th "shooting" this year [probably using their creative definitions], and student protests, cute catch phrases, calls to action, and all kinds of thing that have nothing to do with the story but everything to do with their "agenda spin":

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/

Didn't bother with NYT/Washing Post, but I would expect the same thing.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #216 on: March 20, 2018, 06:21:56 pm »
...and wtf is a 'resource' officer? Are they so PC they won't say cop or guard or armed hall monitor?
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Offline sanmo

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #217 on: March 20, 2018, 06:32:55 pm »
March 20:  "Good Guy with Gun Opened Fire on MD High School Shooter, Ended Threat"

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/20/good-guy-gun-opened-fire-md-high-school-shooter-end-threat/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/20/shooting-at-great-mills-high-school-in-maryland-school-confirms.html

And then, the ultra-left CNN version; full of emotion, sad quotes, and the obligatory focus on how it is [supposedly] the 17th "shooting" this year [probably using their creative definitions], and student protests, cute catch phrases, calls to action, and all kinds of thing that have nothing to do with the story but everything to do with their "agenda spin":

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/

Didn't bother with NYT/Washing Post, but I would expect the same thing.



So you want the news report to duplicate a very clinical police report, without any human interest or background stuff. Breitbart was terse as per your specifications, but apparently the Fox News report did not get the memo. Oops..... :)
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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #218 on: March 20, 2018, 06:59:36 pm »
So you want the news report to duplicate a very clinical police report, without any human interest or background stuff. Breitbart was terse as per your specifications, but apparently the Fox News report did not get the memo. Oops..... :)


It doesn't have to be terse and cold like Breitbart, but not swilling in emotional blather and agenda like CNN.  The Fox report stuck to facts and things involved in the incident.  It was informative, rational, and to the point... it is news.  The CNN report was quite the opposite.  My point in sharing was not just to highlight the fact that "it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun", which is absolutely true, but also to show just how severely slanted certain media is at "news."

You might find this interesting too- same FL school as one of the deadliest mass shootings in history, students just arrested for bringing in knives, pulling them on each other, all the while the "resource officer" was sleeping in his car.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/20/stoneman-douglas-students-arrested-for-knives-deputy-suspended-for-sleeping-on-job.html

Of course, that isn't to be found on CNN at all, because it doesn't fit their agenda and narrative.  You won't find it on NYTimes either.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #219 on: March 21, 2018, 06:12:25 am »
...and wtf is a 'resource' officer? Are they so PC they won't say cop or guard or armed hall monitor?


Sheriff's deputy and member of the local swat team.  You can call them whatever you want but this one didn't cower outside the building.  I think that they call them that here in VA as well.   What do they call them where you live Gary?  This incident occurred across the river (Potomac) and over to the east of me.   Unlike FL, this sh*thead (shooter) only had a Glock.   Now trying to figure out where he got it from.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #220 on: March 21, 2018, 06:17:45 am »
Why call them a 'resource' officer? I don't understand the use of the word resource. None of these definitions fit. Is this newspeak?


resource
re·source
ˈrēˌsôrs,rəˈsôrs/Submit
noun
1.
a stock or supply of money, materials, staff, and other assets that can be drawn on by a person or organization in order to function effectively.
"local authorities complained that they lacked resources"
synonyms:   assets, funds, wealth, money, capital; More
2.
an action or strategy that may be adopted in adverse circumstances.
"sometimes anger is the only resource left in a situation like this"
synonyms:   expedient, resort, course, scheme, stratagem; More
verb
1.
provide (a person or organization) with materials, money, staff, and other assets necessary for effective operation.
"ensurin
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #221 on: March 21, 2018, 06:23:46 am »
Interestingly, it's a Federal term...   First SRO was placed in a Flint Mich school in 1953.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_resource_officer


Another term is SBLE which is a State Based Law Enforcement officer which in the MD incident may be the correct term although SRO and SBLE are used interchangeably.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #222 on: March 21, 2018, 06:57:17 am »
Imagine that. Thanks Jim.
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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #223 on: March 21, 2018, 12:54:46 pm »
Resource Officer ... it's a term that sounds technical / official enough that most people won't question it when this new paid position has been added to the tax roll.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #224 on: March 21, 2018, 01:20:08 pm »
If there is anything that I would pay extra taxes for, having an armed officer at a school would be at the top of the list.
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