Author Topic: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting  (Read 21727 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #225 on: March 21, 2018, 01:25:30 pm »
It may just be a nice way of saying a 'full time, monitoring police officer' that is more kid- friendly. Just a kind and gentle, positive spin on the situation I think.

Brian

Resource Officer ... it's a term that sounds technical / official enough that most people won't question it when this new paid position has been added to the tax roll.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #226 on: March 21, 2018, 04:36:03 pm »
It may just be a nice way of saying a 'full time, monitoring police officer' that is more kid- friendly. Just a kind and gentle, positive spin on the situation I think.

I don't know.  Why just just "school officer"? Or "campus police"?  Or "SCO" (School Security Officer).  There are some many more suitable terms.  The word "resource" makes absolutely no sense in this context at all.  I just did a few minutes of searching and give up- nobody seems to know why that stupid term was selected.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #227 on: March 21, 2018, 04:40:17 pm »
Interestingly, it's a Federal term...   First SRO was placed in a Flint Mich school in 1953.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_resource_officer


Another term is SBLE which is a State Based Law Enforcement officer which in the MD incident may be the correct term although SRO and SBLE are used interchangeably.

I don't know.  Why just just "school officer"? Or "campus police"?  Or "SCO" (School Security Officer).  There are some many more suitable terms.  The word "resource" makes absolutely no sense in this context at all.  I just did a few minutes of searching and give up- nobody seems to know why that stupid term was selected.

Jim came though in the above post. Who knew.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #228 on: March 21, 2018, 05:03:19 pm »
Jim came though in the above post. Who knew.

Well, I saw it was a "Federal term" and read the Wikipedia page before posting, but there is no explanation anywhere of the rationale behind their (Fed) choice of the word either.... at least not that I could find.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #229 on: May 18, 2018, 02:04:48 pm »
Friday, 18 May 2018. Looks like another school shooting, in TX this time. Early info. is ten dead, ten wounded, suspect in custody and another person detained for questioning. Some sketchy info. about explosive device(s?) found at the school also.

Too bad no one rammed through 'assault weapon' legislation or magazine limitations, although the two firearms used in this shooting were a shotgun and a handgun.

As I said months ago, public schools could have been hardened, at least crudely but effectively, by now. But instead we prance around trying to outlaw a very small fraction of the 'tools' used in these events.

We have failed at the two steps in solving any problem. And on the first step too boot:

1) Identify the problem (not a symptom, not something that looks like it might be the problem but the actual problem).
2) Deal with the problem.

Not sure what is going on in the world but these mass attacks, apparently all over Europe and absolutely in the US are just outside my ability to rationally contemplate. Over population? A population continuously and seriously desensitized to.... well, everything, needing more and more outrageous acts to feel satisfied? The desire to stand out and 'be someone', even if that someone is Charles Manson or Ted Bundy?

I guess I am getting to old to adapt all the way to the new realities of life. Must be why we have to die, so younger people, better trained and immersed in the current world can move along with it. I have always had trouble understanding how far, and how fast 'road rage' can get out of control so the idea of 'school rage' or 'movie theater rage' is just beyond my comprehension.

Brian
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #230 on: May 18, 2018, 05:15:53 pm »
Yep, this is sad, indeed.  Still not much useful info I can find online like the story with the resource officers- what was done or not and how he got shot.  Was the perp was on or taken off meds... very interested to know this one, since there are a LOT of theories that the meds being pumped into teenagers could very well be a huge contributor.

Otherwise, I do believe another major contributing factor is all the never-ending media coverage leading to "copy-cat" crimes.

And like you said, this totally destroys the whole "left's" obsession with AR15's.  So now the narrative will just shift to holding people responsible for unsecured weapons while we continue to not harden schools or really try to figure out what is going on with the actual problem- the killer students' minds, not the tools they used.  Oh, and they will totally ignore the "explosive devices", because those don't fit any narrative at all right now.

Tragic.
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Offline gPink

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #231 on: May 18, 2018, 06:52:43 pm »
Used to be these mentally deficient people would just off themselves with a gun under their chin. Shame they got away from that.
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Offline Rubber_Snake

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #232 on: May 18, 2018, 09:49:09 pm »
Yep, this is sad, indeed.  Still not much useful info I can find online like the story with the resource officers- what was done or not and how he got shot.  Was the perp was on or taken off meds... very interested to know this one, since there are a LOT of theories that the meds being pumped into teenagers could very well be a huge contributor.

Otherwise, I do believe another major contributing factor is all the never-ending media coverage leading to "copy-cat" crimes.

And like you said, this totally destroys the whole "left's" obsession with AR15's.  So now the narrative will just shift to holding people responsible for unsecured weapons while we continue to not harden schools or really try to figure out what is going on with the actual problem- the killer students' minds, not the tools they used.  Oh, and they will totally ignore the "explosive devices", because those don't fit any narrative at all right now.

Tragic.

I subscribe to the notion of the copycat theory.  The media over sensationalizes every event and just continues to front page everything about active shooters in schools.  It helps to plant the seeds in warped minds and gives more people the idea that they can do this to. 

That and a general moral decay that seems to happening globally...
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #233 on: May 19, 2018, 01:02:01 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/bd745643-8045-30e3-b7de-035793d62bb4/ss_texas-lt.-governor-dan.html

And now the Lt. Gov. of Texas has come up with the novel notion that larger schools have too many (unsecured) doors. DUH!

Dammit, harden public schools! Reduce the entrance points, and double- door them (with interlocks so two cannot be open at once), and use metal detectors for school entry! I just do not see 18 different ways to handle this problem or express the solution; limit access in public schools to metal objects that weigh more the XXX ounces and solve the majority of the problem of deadly assaults inside schools. This would also take care of <some> explosive devices, larger knives and so on. Honestly, I do NOT understand the resistance or failure to do this ASAP. ??

We live in an imperfect world, and I do not for one moment think this 'solution' will end all public school violence. But I cannot think of a faster, more effective way to do something that would be effective immediately to reduce these incidents.

One other thought: arrest the adult who actually owned the firearms used in this latest attack (the perpetrator is apparently 17 and was using his father's firearms) and charge his as an accessory to 10 murders. That <may> make others make more of an effort to restrict the access to their own firearms. I am pro 2A but not irresponsible; if you bring a 'gun to the party', you are responsible for that firearm. By 'party', it could even be a household. Owning / carrying firearms carries with it a most serious responsibility to retain those firearms and not allow them to 'get loose' to the best of one's abilities. This same thing would have almost certainly prevented Sandy Hook BTW, at least the way it played out in history.

Brian
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Offline maxtog

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #234 on: May 19, 2018, 01:23:43 pm »
One other thought: arrest the adult who actually owned the firearms used in this latest attack (the perpetrator is apparently 17 and was using his father's firearms) and charge his as an accessory to 10 murders. That <may> make others make more of an effort to restrict the access to their own firearms. I am pro 2A but not irresponsible; if you bring a 'gun to the party', you are responsible for that firearm.

We don't know anything about HOW he obtained those guns yet (unless you know something I don't about it).  For all we know, they were locked and he defeated the security, similar to a robbery.  Would it just apply to minors?  Just to family?  People you know?  If a robber broke into my house and took my car, knife, locked gun, axe, rat poison, gasoline, etc and killed or hurt someone using one of them, is that my fault?  How much fault?  How "locked" or "secured" is enough?  If there is liability, could landlords then be liable too?  Would they start to restrict what renters could possess?   Would we have to carry additional insurance?  Would this require inspections?

Quote
Owning / carrying firearms carries with it a most serious responsibility to retain those firearms and not allow them to 'get loose' to the best of one's abilities.

I totally agree, but legislating that is very tricky.  Like I said in my previous posting, this will be the new narrative now...
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #235 on: May 19, 2018, 02:26:10 pm »
A news report I read was that they were his father's firearms, legally obtained by the father.

How would I set limits of reasonable security? Well, starting with a gun safe (or a 'real' safe), and anyone having to defeat the safe to obtain the firearms would let the 'owner / possessor' off the hook. Letting a minor know the safe combination (ah la Sandy Hook apparently), would put the blame squarely back on the owner.

So let's say you have a firearm. If not in use, it should be in a 'safe' and anyone who takes it from that safe should have to cut his / her way into that safe. Family members who know the combination means to me that YOU, the firearms owner / legal possessor, "let" them have your firearms. And as such, you bear responsibility. Now, suppose you have a firearm on your person: someone should have to physically assault and overcome you to take possession of that firearm.

I think in reality, without a lot of written laws, we can determine the path that one takes to obtain a firearm and how difficult or available that path was. That would set the pace of the charges and trial, IMO. The law recognizes intent, and if your clear intent was to keep your firearms secure, you <should> be relatively safe from criminal and probably civil prosecution. That is what I would use for a standard.

If I were to have firearms, and I am not saying I do, but if I did, you would have to make substantial effort and risk 'life and limb' to maintain possession of them. I feel I bear a responsibility to the society I live in to be responsible with and for them, within reasonable bounds. 

As far as your litany of questions, all I can say is that I do not necessarily support more laws, such as securing firearms, but I do believe in responsibility. If one is going to bring a firearm to the proverbial 'party', then it is the responsibility of that individual to retain said firearm and not let it "loose" in any environment, at home or outside the home. I support one's right to carry a firearm in, say, a Walmart for personal defense but would not look kindly toward anyone who had a firearm 'slip away' at that same Walmart in any kind of confrontation or melee. The general field is called 'weapons retention' and I firmly believe if one chooses to posses a firearm, then one has fundamentally agreed to reasonable limits on retaining said firearm(s).

There is no need for any additional legislation IMO. All that is needed is for one person to be charged, to set precedent, and let a jury decide if that person was at fault, and possibly [how much] fault.

Brian

We don't know anything about HOW he obtained those guns yet (unless you know something I don't about it).  For all we know, they were locked and he defeated the security, similar to a robbery.  Would it just apply to minors?  Just to family?  People you know?  If a robber broke into my house and took my car, knife, locked gun, axe, rat poison, gasoline, etc and killed or hurt someone using one of them, is that my fault?  How much fault?  How "locked" or "secured" is enough?  If there is liability, could landlords then be liable too?  Would they start to restrict what renters could possess?   Would we have to carry additional insurance?  Would this require inspections?

I totally agree, but legislating that is very tricky.  Like I said in my previous posting, this will be the new narrative now...

Edited to add legislation thoughts.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 12:12:22 pm by B.D.F. »
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: 14 Feb 2018 FL school shooting
« Reply #236 on: May 20, 2018, 02:13:11 pm »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/3fa34f9d-6d65-3a75-a1d4-df634676b234/ss_texas-shooting-suspect%26apos%3Bs.html

"Texas shooting suspect's choice of guns complicates debate over assault rifles"

Right. The firearms used were a shotgun (of unknown type but I am confident it was not a magazine- fed, "assault shotgun"  ::)  ) and a revolver. Not even a nasty, magazine- fed, 'high capacity' self loading pistol but a revolver. So now the anti gun folks have three choices:

1) Keep right after 'assault weapons' and ignore this.
2) Expand the 'ring' to include all firearms.
3) Continue pressing for an 'assault weapons' ban and claim that this is actually a 'good thing' because "only" ten people were killed, with an additional ten wounded.

No doubt they will continue along unabated about the 'assault weapons', or modern sporting rifles. The article in the link above does state that this could and <probably> would have been worse, or much worse, had an 'assault weapon' been used. Does that make this a 'good' event?

To all you folks who like to shoot skeet or trap and think none of this current debate has anything to do with you, think again. In fact, go look at the course of Australia's acceleration in the banning of firearms; that too started with semi- autos and a couple of other 'problematic' firearms. And then there was another mass shooting with sporting firearms, none of which were viewed as 'problematic' before, so they banned those too. Now, virtually all firearms are 'effectively' banned in Australia although it is possible for an individual to own and posses a firearm IF APPROVED, and after a lot of red tape and finally, if the law enforcement agencies think it good and wise that that individual have a firearm.

Brian
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