Author Topic: Marty wants an honest answer......  (Read 3895 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Marty wants an honest answer......
« on: May 04, 2018, 12:11:20 pm »
From another 'trolling' thread:

Yes, I think the current POTUS is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, not worthy of executing any high office, a megalomaniac, and honestly, not bright enough for the task.

I voted for him because there were only two choices, both truly terrible IMO but one more dangerous than the other, so I choose the lesser evil, literally.

I believe Ms. Clinton is a liar, self aggrandizing, not worthy of citizenship never-mind high office, a megalomaniac and a multiple- felon but instead of a bumbling nincompoop, a much more intelligent human with goals that are quite contrary to my own as well as those that would benefit the country,  and a huge sense of self importance and immune status (which, so far, has proven to be correct).

Poll after poll showed that NONE of the contestants were popular with the general public. A truly lousy set of front- runners from weak potential fields in both parties.

What would be great would be to have a statesman, a great statesman even better, (there is no gender in that description BTW, it could well be a female) in the running but they are rare. Most of our Presidents, as well as most major leaders of history to the best of my knowledge, have merely been "place holders" rather than active, effective leaders capable of leaving their sphere (country, empire, whatever) in better shape then it was when they took up the leadership position. IMO, the finest thing our founding Fathers did when setting up the framework of this country, by far, was to slow things down and make any change difficult. So while those who are not equal to the task hold high office (President, member of Congress, Supreme Court Justice, and many others), they are very well hampered indeed in what they can do and how quickly they can do it. Humans have lots of ideas, mostly bad ones, and the best thing that can usually be done with a bad idea is..... not doing it. If that has to happen because of a complicated, tangled and interlaced mechanism that is hard to move in any direction, then so be it.

And to expand on your original question about the current POTUS, look forward to 2020 and tell me, do YOU see any great statesmen standing by to enter the race? Any statesmen at all? Any decent candidates capable of even reasonable performance in that high office? Neither do I and so we will again have an election with 'less than excellent' choices and yet we have to choose one.

Brian

Oh yes, please keep my answer private because I am concerned about back-lash.  ::) ;D ;D ;D

<begin Marty's question>
"Just a quick question, since we are accusing other's of being a troll, hopefully I can ask this question here without causing the thread to get locked. I am actually asking for information (not trolling) from the many sides that seem to be here. Regardless of your political bent/opinion in general, i.e. left, right, middle, bottom, guns, no guns, some guns, etc.....

When someone (say me, for example, if that helps) says that they "think the current Potus is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, and not worthy of the office."

Do you simply assume that said person (A) doesn't care for the current Potus, or do you also assume that they (B) really wanted Hillery or Bernie as our Potus?

I would really like to know what you actually think at your gut level about that person  (Again me, if that helps) and not what logical answer you think will stand up to internet scrutiny.

So, A? or A&B?  If you're not willing to answer here, I'm appreciatively taking (confidential PMs*) on this question. Thanks.

* I'll keep it confidential, but on many forums, PMs are visible to moderators. I'm OK with that, however you may not be."
<end Marty's question>
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2018, 01:46:46 pm »
I too voted for the lesser of 2 evils. He was my last choice for the Republican nomination. But like you, him or Hillary. For me that was no choice and I voted for Trump. That said, he has exceeded my expectations. Of course the main reason for this is that I had low expectations. My whole voting history has been like this. I mostly have voted against someone more than voting for someone. So for me the answer is A.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2018, 03:31:04 pm »
When someone (say me, for example, if that helps) says that they "think the current Potus is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, and not worthy of the office."

Do you simply assume that said person (A) doesn't care for the current Potus, or do you also assume that they (B) really wanted Hillery or Bernie as our Potus?

I try not to assume anything, because not enough information if that is all they say.  Although I do suspect most people saying that would also believe that the alternative would have been better.

Alas, our broken system (first-past-the-post) really only gives two choices, and we do end up in situations where neither is great.  That aside, I am certainly not afraid of saying:  I do think Trump is not worthy of the office, that he is a loud-mouth and terribly annoying and unprofessional.  Hillary would have been far more diplomatic and tolerable in that regard.  But her POLICIES would be MUCH MUCH WORSE (plus, she is also an arrogant liar), and that is far more important.  So I held my nose and voted based on position/policy, not demeanor.  Who I wanted to vote for was Rand Paul- someone who has an excellent demeanor and integrity, is not a liar, is intelligent, and who has great policy positions.  The primary didn't work out that way and I am not sure he could have won against Hillary, anyway.  :(
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2018, 03:38:11 pm »
Something I read in a Stephen King novel one time, paraphrased: This is like a choice between cold bull pi$$ and warm Zarex.... and I have to sit down and think about it for a while.

I would have been much happier voting for Mitt Romney but alas, he did not run, was not backed by a major party, and a write- in ballot would end up being a throw- away vote. Though living in a 70% Democratic state makes my vote a throw- away anyway, really. Though it DOES count on a National level and shows up in the 'popular vote' category I guess.

Now, looking at the bright side, we (the American 'People' (read: voters) ) have so strangled American politics that even relatively straightforward issues are ham- stringed into dismissal. So in a really left- handed way, we have managed to stop the Fed. gov't from doing anything of any significance, which I guess is a left- handed victory for all. Let us face it, things are pretty good in the ole' US of A and just leaving things alone is certainly not the worst possible outcome.

Brian

I try not to assume anything, because not enough information if that is all they say.  Although I do suspect most people saying that would also believe that the alternative would have been better.

Alas, our broken system (first-past-the-post) really only gives two choices, and we do end up in situations where neither is great.  That aside, I am certainly not afraid of saying:  I do think Trump is not worthy of the office, that he is a loud-mouth and terribly annoying and unprofessional.  Hillary would have been far more diplomatic and tolerable in that regard.  But her POLICIES would be MUCH MUCH WORSE (plus, she is also an arrogant liar), and that is far more important.  So I held my nose and voted based on position/policy, not demeanor.  Who I wanted to vote for was Rand Paul- someone who has an excellent demeanor and integrity, is not a liar, is intelligent, and who has great policy positions.  The primary didn't work out that way and I am not sure he could have won against Hillary, anyway.  :(
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 05:01:05 pm »
Now, looking at the bright side, we (the American 'People' (read: voters) ) have so strangled American politics that even relatively straightforward issues are ham- stringed into dismissal. So in a really left- handed way, we have managed to stop the Fed. gov't from doing anything of any significance, which I guess is a left- handed victory for all. Let us face it, things are pretty good in the ole' US of A and just leaving things alone is certainly not the worst possible outcome.

In the past, it was interesting to see moderates consistently vote the "opposite" way to end up creating as much conflict in the three (POTUS, Senate, House).  I am all-for paralysis (inability of the Fed to pass more legislation) if the alternative is:

* More spending
* More taxes
* More debt
* More government
* More control over our liberties
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Offline Bob Skinner

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 05:37:02 pm »
For the last thirty years I've voted for the least evil candidate in my opinion.
I've lost all faith in our political system when becoming a political was a career choice. A person takes on a job to make money.When making money is your guidance for your job performance,  you fail serving the public.

Offline zarticus

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 07:54:07 pm »
For the last thirty years I've voted for the least evil candidate in my opinion.
I've lost all faith in our political system when becoming a political was a career choice. A person takes on a job to make money.When making money is your guidance for your job performance,  you fail serving the public.
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 08:43:38 pm »
This is all great discussion.....but...WHEN SUDDENLY...... he repeats the question.

When someone (say me, for example, if that helps) says that they "think the current Potus is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, and not worthy of the office."
Do you simply assume that said person (A) doesn't care for the current Potus, or do you also assume that they (B) really wanted Hillery or Bernie as our Potus?

So if you could please at the end of your post just let me know if it's A? or A&B?
Thanks.

So far I have a definite B from turbojoe', and I think an A from Max', and nothing that I could discern from anybody else.

And to expand on your original question about the current POTUS...

Just for the record, I didn't ask anything about the current Potus. My question is repeated above for reference.  :D

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 11:18:00 pm »
Well, given that statement, I would not make any assumptions (beliefs) about the speakers opinions on other candidates. So A I guess.

Brian

This is all great discussion.....but...WHEN SUDDENLY...... he repeats the question.

When someone (say me, for example, if that helps) says that they "think the current Potus is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, and not worthy of the office."
Do you simply assume that said person (A) doesn't care for the current Potus, or do you also assume that they (B) really wanted Hillery or Bernie as our Potus?

So if you could please at the end of your post just let me know if it's A? or A&B?
Thanks.

So far I have a definite B from turbojoe', and I think an A from Max', and nothing that I could discern from anybody else.

Just for the record, I didn't ask anything about the current Potus. My question is repeated above for reference.  :D
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 11:39:49 pm »
A reserved A

Quote
Just for the record, I didn't ask anything about the current Potus. My question is repeated above for reference.  :D

Well, your sorta did, although not exactly...
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2018, 01:02:52 am »
A reserved A
So A I guess.

Thank you both for the answers.

Well, your sorta did, although not exactly...
I can see how you might think that in light of some of the discussions that have occurred here about firearms. That by saying some not flattering things about one candidate that I might be trying to gauge how everyone here felt about him. Perhaps I should have gone the other way and asked the same question only using the the opposite characters, but too late now I think.

My question was strictly what you thought about a person saying such as I mentioned. I just wanted to know if most people assume the B once they hear the A.

Now I don't don't mean to stifle anyone so post away, just if you would please eventually get around to answering the question. It can be at the very bottom of your post.

Thanks for moving this to a new post Brian.  I'm not sure but I think sanmo didn't want me messing up what he had going on over there in the NALMBHGCLMAETGB section.
He didn't answer the question either. I really should have done a poll, but again, it's too late now.  :-\

Offline Conrad

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 08:36:03 am »
This is all great discussion.....but...WHEN SUDDENLY...... he repeats the question.

When someone (say me, for example, if that helps) says that they "think the current Potus is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, and not worthy of the office."
Do you simply assume that said person (A) doesn't care for the current Potus, or do you also assume that they (B) really wanted Hillery or Bernie as our Potus?

So if you could please at the end of your post just let me know if it's A? or A&B?
Thanks.

So far I have a definite B from turbojoe', and I think an A from Max', and nothing that I could discern from anybody else.

Just for the record, I didn't ask anything about the current Potus. My question is repeated above for reference.  :D


This might be interesting...

When someone (say me (me too), for example, if that helps) says that they "think the current Potus is a liar, a bumbling buffoon, a self aggrandizing nincompoop, and not worthy of the office."

(I just wanted to read the above again)   ::)  :-X

My answer would be A.

Just a guess on my part but I'd bet money that supporters of the current administration would all vote B (as I've seen this time and time again in the Arena).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 08:50:58 am by Conrad »
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 10:21:55 am »
I like a different analogy- You are offered two ice creams flavors and you MUST to pick one of them to eat (for whatever reason):

* Dirt flavored, which is also in a horrible package and it looks nasty too
* Crap flavored, which is in a pretty container and looks a little more like normal chocolate

Obviously, neither is appealing.  And you wonder how you got stuck in such a nasty taste selection.  So you pick "dirt" (since the other is CRAP!) and eat it and say "OMG, dirt flavored is horrible, worst ice cream I have ever tasted."

Yes, it probably is the worst ice cream you have ever eaten, by far.  And it might be even worse than you imagined it would taste.  But that doesn't mean you would have rather chosen crap flavored :)
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 11:11:26 am »
My answer would be A.
Thanks C!

I like a different analogy- You are offered two ice creams flavors and you MUST to pick one of them to eat (for whatever reason):

* Dirt flavored, which is also in a horrible package and it looks nasty too
* Crap flavored, which is in a pretty container and looks a little more like normal chocolate

Obviously, neither is appealing.  And you wonder how you got stuck in such a nasty taste selection.  So you pick "dirt" (since the other is CRAP!) and eat it and say "OMG, dirt flavored is horrible, worst ice cream I have ever tasted."

Yes, it probably is the worst ice cream you have ever eaten, by far.  And it might be even worse than you imagined it would taste.  But that doesn't mean you would have rather chosen crap flavored :)

 :)  ...so "A" has been double confirmed for you then? Thanks.


Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 02:01:29 pm »
It is actually even more than 'A' without 'B', it is 'A' without all the 'A'.  ;D

We have two (viable) political parties. Each has a stand on many issues, some of them truly amazing (how a political party takes a hard stand on a scientific issue such as global warming is absolutely astounding, and absurd, to me). I think each party has about 7 people who go for the whole 'party line' and after that, we all pick and choose our issues. Many (most?) of us are forced to choose one party because it has a stand on an issue or two that are important to us but after that, it is a total mish- mash regarding the match-up of the individual's beliefs and the party's stands on those beliefs. The great majority of Conservative supported issues are simply not issues for me, many more I have an opinion but it is not overly important nor would I vote for that particular issue.

For me, firearms are a voting issue, in  fact the very first one. Illegal aliens might be number two. Prayer in schools? No interest AS LONG AS no one is forced to do anything he / she / it does not want to do (the Constitution makes this clear). Abortion- I have an opinion but not a major one. I would also offer moderate support for any candidate who would push for mandatory top posting and ban the other, wrong, type.  :rotflmao: And so it goes..... I assume that virtually everyone is either like this, or if they do swallow any party line, it is because they are easily led and too lazy to find their own paths forward (and I mean that although not in the obnoxious way it probably sounds- just stating what I think is a fact).

And remember, many of us know each other actually pretty well from this forum and perhaps the occasional meeting at a Concours function. But we do not know each other on a very personal level, such as what most of us do for a livelihood, personal knowledge (spouse's name, children, etc., etc.). So I think we 'forum friends' escape most of the different facets that go toward choosing a political side. For example, I do not know what you did for a living (and I am not asking), so I have not the foggiest notion of your orientation regarding, say for example, labor unions or similar. Now Conrad mentioned he retired from <I think> a state position with a university (Illinois IIRC?) and seemed very content with his retirement arrangements; this would lead me to believe he might be more pro- union than others, and therefore, very possibly more left- leaning. But by far, my knowledge of the friends and associates I have 'known', some for quite some time, is nil and so I find that very helpful in NOT creating what may well be a false sense of any person here. So to put this in context: if it is not directly stated, I really know very little about most people here but if I were to be stuck in a teacher's rally demanding more [of whatever], I certainly would suspect they were predominantly pro- union, politically to the left and further, generally rather liberal, especially if located in a large city.

Brian

Thank you both for the answers.
I can see how you might think that in light of some of the discussions that have occurred here about firearms. That by saying some not flattering things about one candidate that I might be trying to gauge how everyone here felt about him. Perhaps I should have gone the other way and asked the same question only using the the opposite characters, but too late now I think.

My question was strictly what you thought about a person saying such as I mentioned. I just wanted to know if most people assume the B once they hear the A.

Now I don't don't mean to stifle anyone so post away, just if you would please eventually get around to answering the question. It can be at the very bottom of your post.

Thanks for moving this to a new post Brian.  I'm not sure but I think sanmo didn't want me messing up what he had going on over there in the NALMBHGCLMAETGB section.
He didn't answer the question either. I really should have done a poll, but again, it's too late now.  :-\
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