Author Topic: Marty wants an honest answer......  (Read 3875 times)

Offline Conrad

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2018, 08:46:20 am »
I like a different analogy- You are offered two ice creams flavors and you MUST to pick one of them to eat (for whatever reason):

* Dirt flavored, which is also in a horrible package and it looks nasty too
* Crap flavored, which is in a pretty container and looks a little more like normal chocolate

Obviously, neither is appealing.  And you wonder how you got stuck in such a nasty taste selection.  So you pick "dirt" (since the other is CRAP!) and eat it and say "OMG, dirt flavored is horrible, worst ice cream I have ever tasted."

Yes, it probably is the worst ice cream you have ever eaten, by far.  And it might be even worse than you imagined it would taste.  But that doesn't mean you would have rather chosen crap flavored :)

Would those be natural or artificial flavors?    ;)

* Dirt flavored, which is also in a horrible package and it looks nasty too
* Crap flavored, which is in a pretty container and looks a little more like normal chocolate

I have to ask this Max. In your analogy above, which one is Clinton and which is Trump?  :o    :rotflmao:
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2018, 08:50:39 am »
Why would anyone take the time to make those particular artificial flavors with so much of the natural stuff scattered about?

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2018, 08:52:52 am »
True enough. OK, same example but substitute armpit for dirt, and feet for crap. Carry on.....

Brian

Why would anyone take the time to make those particular artificial flavors with so much of natural stuff scattered about?
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 09:14:08 am »
Snip...

And remember, many of us know each other actually pretty well from this forum and perhaps the occasional meeting at a Concours function. But we do not know each other on a very personal level, such as what most of us do for a livelihood, personal knowledge (spouse's name, children, etc., etc.). So I think we 'forum friends' escape most of the different facets that go toward choosing a political side. For example, I do not know what you did for a living (and I am not asking), so I have not the foggiest notion of your orientation regarding, say for example, labor unions or similar. Now Conrad mentioned he retired from <I think> a state position with a university (Illinois IIRC?) and seemed very content with his retirement arrangements; this would lead me to believe he might be more pro- union than others, and therefore, very possibly more left- leaning. But by far, my knowledge of the friends and associates I have 'known', some for quite some time, is nil and so I find that very helpful in NOT creating what may well be a false sense of any person here. So to put this in context: if it is not directly stated, I really know very little about most people here but if I were to be stuck in a teacher's rally demanding more [of whatever], I certainly would suspect they were predominantly pro- union, politically to the left and further, generally rather liberal, especially if located in a large city.

Brian

You are correct Brian, mostly. You're not the only person on this forum to assume that I would be pro union, I am not. I've never been a member of any union nor had I any desire to be so. Some of the folks working at the university (NIU) were members of a union (AFSCME). From my point of view that union never did anything for them, other than to protect the lazy workers that is. Again, that's my point of view only.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 09:18:33 am »
Why would anyone take the time to make those particular artificial flavors with so much of the natural stuff scattered about?

Only one reason Marty, money.

Perhaps the artificial flavors are less expensive? Perhaps either Clinton or Trump owns the company that manufactures said artificial flavors?

Didn't think of that did ya?    ;)
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 09:54:34 am »
Only one reason Marty, money.
Perhaps the artificial flavors are less expensive?

Not hardly, where do you think the terms "dirt cheap" and "free $#!+" come from.

Perhaps either Clinton or Trump owns the company that manufactures said artificial flavors?

Didn't think of that did ya?    ;)
Well, you got me there, no I didn't think of that.   ;D

Offline connie14boy

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 11:27:08 am »
Not hardly, where do you think the terms "dirt cheap" and "free $#!+" come from.
Well, you got me there, no I didn't think of that.   ;D

Most of us just want to work, earn an honest living, raise a family and have some protection from the latest Genghis threat.
This is what we have:
A president who acts like a King and is above any counsel.
A leader who denigrates war heroes, and mocks disabled people even though they are sometimes a jerk.
A known money grubber who comes from a long line of grubbers.
A person who thinks they are above the law, and laws are for little people.
Has no respect for women or even his own daughter when talking to Howard Stern (of all people).
Is a lousy wrestler.
Won't show his tax records because his 'base' would crap their skivvies if they knew he didn't pay any taxes.
I'm sure 'ol Fred paid the Wharton School a huge legacy tuition to get the Donald in- this guy is so stupid, even his hand picked cabinet calls him an idiot.
I refuse to vote for either corrupt party if their 'candidates' are as bad as the last cycle, and probably everyone on this forum has a similar view. The lesser of 2 evils only works when you have no good options- very sad indeed.

 

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 11:37:32 am »
Well there we go- I made some bad assumptions based on a little information that really did not give me cause for those assumptions. My apologies but no matter what, I do not have any opinions about what others' opinions on various subjects may be anyway so it was not meant in any negative way.

One thing I have found is pretty common though is that certain groups of people tend to lean a certain way, generally. This forum, for example, I believe tends to have more conservative members than the general population because pro- motorcycle people tend not to be liberal, again generally. From there, a whole string of other generalities and tendencies that I believe apply to a group such as this one. Again, not any kind of rule or anything approaching 100%, just a different percentage than the entire population.

Brian

You are correct Brian, mostly. You're not the only person on this forum to assume that I would be pro union, I am not. I've never been a member of any union nor had I any desire to be so. Some of the folks working at the university (NIU) were members of a union (AFSCME). From my point of view that union never did anything for them, other than to protect the lazy workers that is. Again, that's my point of view only.
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Online maxtog

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 12:28:00 pm »
I refuse to vote for either corrupt party if their 'candidates' are as bad as the last cycle, and probably everyone on this forum has a similar view. The lesser of 2 evils only works when you have no good options- very sad indeed.


Unfortunately, refusing to vote doesn't help matters either.  It might send a message, but one that apparently nobody cares about.  Both major "parties" are terribly corrupt.  Although, I will still vote for the lesser of two evils, which is mostly the party that believes in less spending, less debt, less taxes, and less government.  Everything is relative since neither will make major progress in that direction, although one tends to more than the other.

What we need are additional parties and independents.  That will FORCE the major parties to be responsive, get new blood in the power mix, prevent spoilers, give voters more choice, and help stop "single issue" campaigns.  But our system of "first past the post" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting ) makes it all but impossible due to a huge "spoiler effect" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect ).  The only solution is to change the WAY we vote (for everything- primaries, legislative branch, executive branch, State and Federal), by moving to some form of ranked voting system ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting ).  Unfortunately:

1) Such change is difficult.
2) Such change costs money.
3) Changing to a ranked system absolutely does not benefit either major party, so they will do anything they can to trash or prevent the idea from spreading.

On the plus side, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation since States control how voting is performed for/by their State, they have the individual power to do something without having to drag the rest of the country along.  Right now, Maine is the ONLY State to do so, (although some localities throughout the nation do use it) and it is a major event:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/ranked-choice-voting-maine/557669/

But still, it is only for State elections, not for their Federal ones.  But it is a start.  One that needs to spread.

http://www.fairvote.org/
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 03:39:17 pm »
This forum, for example, I believe tends to have more conservative members than the general population because pro- motorcycle people tend not to be liberal, again generally.

It doesn't appear that I'm going to get any more honest answers to my question....so I might as well jump in.

I think you are correct (yes, as you said generally), but I think it has more to do with age. These days pro-motorcycle people tend to be older (same with this forum), and older people tend to be more conservative. Back in the sixties when it seems the U.S. motorcycle population exploded, motorcyclists were not considered very conservative at all.

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 03:56:20 pm »
I think you can take a poll Marty- that should get you more answers. ??

Brian

It doesn't appear that I'm going to get any more honest answers to my question....so I might as well jump in.

I think you are correct (yes, as you said generally), but I think it has more to do with age. These days pro-motorcycle people tend to be older (same with this forum), and older people tend to be more conservative. Back in the sixties when it seems the U.S. motorcycle population exploded, motorcyclists were not considered very conservative at all.
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2018, 04:04:35 pm »
I think you can take a poll Marty- that should get you more answers. ??
Yes, I should have started that way, probably too late now.
 I think I know the answer for most based on the experiences I've had (I'm not talking about here). I was just looking for verification or repudiation. I screwed it up.  :( ::)
Oh well, at least I got the poll about V'Jim's new avatar right.  8)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2018, 05:05:38 pm »
Yet, I'm still using the new one...
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2018, 07:55:05 pm »
Yet, I'm still using the new one...

Yeah well, it's not like polls ever changed anything. They just provide information, at least you know how the poll respondents thought about it.
I didn't think it would make you care.  :)

Offline connie14boy

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Re: Marty wants an honest answer......
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2018, 08:57:47 pm »
Unfortunately, refusing to vote doesn't help matters either.  It might send a message, but one that apparently nobody cares about.  Both major "parties" are terribly corrupt.  Although, I will still vote for the lesser of two evils, which is mostly the party that believes in less spending, less debt, less taxes, and less government.  Everything is relative since neither will make major progress in that direction, although one tends to more than the other.

What we need are additional parties and independents.  That will FORCE the major parties to be responsive, get new blood in the power mix, prevent spoilers, give voters more choice, and help stop "single issue" campaigns.  But our system of "first past the post" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting ) makes it all but impossible due to a huge "spoiler effect" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect ).  The only solution is to change the WAY we vote (for everything- primaries, legislative branch, executive branch, State and Federal), by moving to some form of ranked voting system ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting ).  Unfortunately:

1) Such change is difficult.
2) Such change costs money.
3) Changing to a ranked system absolutely does not benefit either major party, so they will do anything they can to trash or prevent the idea from spreading.

On the plus side, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation since States control how voting is performed for/by their State, they have the individual power to do something without having to drag the rest of the country along.  Right now, Maine is the ONLY State to do so, (although some localities throughout the nation do use it) and it is a major event:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/ranked-choice-voting-maine/557669/

But still, it is only for State elections, not for their Federal ones.  But it is a start.  One that needs to spread.

http://www.fairvote.org/


Max, I agree that not voting is not a solution, but only to 'thine own self be true'. I have been a registered Republican for 44 years, but now I usually vote the person, not the party because of so much obfuscation in both parties. I am ashamed to hold up the POTUS to my grandkids because of prostitution, continual controversies and 'name calling' his adversaries like a bratty 8 year old bully. A least he got a huge tax break for all his 'base'. Wait, what? When money grubbing, prostitution and reality celebrity counts more than character, we are paddling up feces creek.