Author Topic: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65  (Read 535 times)

Offline petepro

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So a couple days ago everything worked fine.  2012 concours 14.
This morning the key turned and when i hit the started I got immobilizer error.
I waited a couple minutes and the dash turned on with F1 error. 
I pressed the two buttons to get the service codes and wow.
The following codes came up 21, 23,24, 26, 51, 52, 53, 54, 59, 64, 65.

I'm stumped at this point.   I can't imaging that many things have failed all at once.

Any ideas at this time would be great.

Thanks for your time.
Pete
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2018, 08:52:54 am »
Well, I can give you two free, 'over the Internet' diagnosis's (read: guesstimates): The first is that you have a poor battery connection (battery lug, or frame ground- very common on these bikes). When you engaged the starter, the current draw drove the system voltage down way below the low threshold and badly confused the ECU on the way. That is where I would start, check all battery and batter- to- frame connections first; make sure they are clean, tight and you might want to coat them with a light film of grease of contact protector.

Second, you do have one F.I. error and it is generating all the others. Less likely the the above but possible.

When you have the cables off to clean them, the system will reset anyway so try that one first and the problem may just go away.

Brian

So a couple days ago everything worked fine.  2012 concours 14.
This morning the key turned and when i hit the started I got immobilizer error.
I waited a couple minutes and the dash turned on with F1 error. 
I pressed the two buttons to get the service codes and wow.
The following codes came up 21, 23,24, 26, 51, 52, 53, 54, 59, 64, 65.

I'm stumped at this point.   I can't imaging that many things have failed all at once.

Any ideas at this time would be great.

Thanks for your time.
Pete
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2018, 09:05:17 am »
Well, I can give you two free, 'over the Internet' diagnosis's (read: guesstimates): The first is that you have a poor battery connection (battery lug, or frame ground- very common on these bikes). When you engaged the starter, the current draw drove the system voltage down way below the low threshold and badly confused the ECU on the way. That is where I would start, check all battery and batter- to- frame connections first; make sure they are clean, tight and you might want to coat them with a light film of grease of contact protector.

Second, you do have one F.I. error and it is generating all the others. Less likely the the above but possible.

When you have the cables off to clean them, the system will reset anyway so try that one first and the problem may just go away.

Brian

Brian is correct. You may  possibly also require a new battery. When your cleaning/fixing  your connections why not have that battery load tested at your local auto parts store and please let us know what you find.
Thanks
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2018, 02:31:58 pm »
YEP
as was noted correctly by both above, this is classic poor connection/bad battery syndrome, more likely connection.

I'd like to add in tho, as I've seen the response so many times that " the connections looked clean, and I made sure they were Tight", that it requires you to actually disconnect them all, and abrasively clean (with a stiff wire brush, or fine sandpaper, or both) ALL of those mating surfaces before reinstalling the battery, whose terminals should also be cleaned.... and if the battery is the original (old), make sure its fully charged, and have it load tested at an autoparts store to make sure it didn't develop internal failures (which don't show up using a simple voltmeter).

best of luck

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2018, 03:17:04 pm »
Not to argue Rich but I do not recommend sandpaper (of any kind / type) on any electrical connections. It typically leaves a little grit behind and those pieces of grit prevent solid, positive metal- to- metal contact. Instead, I recommend a wire brush, as you already recommended, either a small manual one (like a toothbrush) or small rotary type (such as used on a Dremel tool).

And I would also go so far as to agree it really is not much of a problem if using fine sandpaper but this is like hydraulics- if there is no sandpaper used, there can not be any grit left behind. (the basic, overriding rule to avoid hydraulic leaks, plugs and expensive hydraulic components is to avoid using hydraulics whenever possible :-)  ).

Brian

YEP
as was noted correctly by both above, this is classic poor connection/bad battery syndrome, more likely connection.

I'd like to add in tho, as I've seen the response so many times that " the connections looked clean, and I made sure they were Tight", that it requires you to actually disconnect them all, and abrasively clean (with a stiff wire brush, or fine sandpaper, or both) ALL of those mating surfaces before reinstalling the battery, whose terminals should also be cleaned.... and if the battery is the original (old), make sure its fully charged, and have it load tested at an autoparts store to make sure it didn't develop internal failures (which don't show up using a simple voltmeter).

best of luck
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Offline maxtog

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 03:31:36 pm »
Yep yep.

Battery and connectors.  We have seen it 100 times now.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2018, 03:37:53 pm »
Very probably. But I think it is always best to keep an open mind because sooner or later, someone will have a problem that generates unusual error codes and is NOT battery or connector related. Not chastising you here max, and I basically agree with you, but want to leave the door open to other possibilities. It is a bad thing to get too caught and trapped by the 'I have seen this 1,000 times' diagnosis.

But certainly, on a C-14, with these unusual or odd electrical / electronic problems or symptoms, ALWAYS check the battery and frame connections, then have the batter tested (load tested) next before doing anything else.

Brian

Yep yep.

Battery and connectors.  We have seen it 100 times now.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2018, 03:55:49 pm »
Oh, it is quite true it COULD be something else.  But we are all kinda waiting for the day that happens :)  Meanwhile, it is pretty safe to just assume it is a bad battery and/or bad battery/ground connections and it seems to be the miracle cure for wacky C14 startup electronics behavior.

Also, to the original poster... if that is the ORIGINAL 2012 battery, and you don't regularly use a battery tender on it, and don't ride it for at least around 15 miles every few days, you can probably assume you will need to replace the battery, anyway.   Still, testing it at a store with a "real" load tester would be prudent... just be prepared to replace it!  I do recommend a battery tender when parked at home... it is little annoying, but they do work to keep the battery in the best possible condition and extend the life more than anything else can.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2018, 04:59:37 pm »
Very probably. But I think it is always best to keep an open mind because sooner or later, someone will have a problem that generates unusual error codes and is NOT battery or connector related. Not chastising you here max, and I basically agree with you, but want to leave the door open to other possibilities. It is a bad thing to get too caught and trapped by the 'I have seen this 1,000 times' diagnosis.

But certainly, on a C-14, with these unusual or odd electrical / electronic problems or symptoms, ALWAYS check the battery and frame connections, then have the batter tested (load tested) next before doing anything else.

Brian

while I do agree on keeping an open mind, I always run the list of the errors thru revue, prior to posting... but when I see so many numbers that really only point to a total ECU fry, it kinda stands out  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :goodpost: :rotflmao:
the occasional oddball numbers are the ones that make ya go... yep....
like 64 &65, mixed in with the others...

attached error codes... for future use...

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2018, 05:15:05 pm »
I agree with both of youse guize. A poor battery and / or frame (to battery) connection is almost certainly the culprit.

I was merely injecting (pun intended) the thought that we want to be careful not to become complacent and 100% confident in a diagnosis without at least allowing for other possibilities.

And of course, that many errors can not possibly be correct and is only significant in that they point to a more central problem. Again, almost certainly the battery connections, with a distant second of an actual bad battery as the most likely alternative.

My goal was merely to throw out the thought of other possibilities AFTER the battery / frame connections and the battery itself are all checked and corrected as needed. Put another way, I would not send a person back to check the same connections or battery 11 times because I <know> that is the problem; it could be a sensor that either failed or has become disconnected that caused a cascade of errors such as this one. So I am not arguing or even disagreeing with you, merely leaving the door of possibilities cracked open a bit because we really do not know, with certainty, what the problem is and a conclusion arrived at without consideration or reason is sometimes a bad conclusion.

Brian

while I do agree on keeping an open mind, I always run the list of the errors thru revue, prior to posting... but when I see so many numbers that really only point to a total ECU fry, it kinda stands out  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :goodpost: :rotflmao:
the occasional oddball numbers are the ones that make ya go... yep....
like 64 &65, mixed in with the others...

attached error codes... for future use...
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Offline deepseamdv

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2018, 10:22:41 pm »
When load testing a suspect battery be persistent. 100 miles from home, stopped for lunch, ready to leave and the key turned but then nothing. No instruments, no lights, nothing. Get it home (long story) and removed the battery and went for a load test. Looks good! 2nd load test looks good so I lightly "Thumped" the battery on the counter and 3rd load test shows 3.6volts. New battery and all is good again.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2018, 05:39:13 am »
When load testing a suspect battery be persistent. 100 miles from home, stopped for lunch, ready to leave and the key turned but then nothing. No instruments, no lights, nothing. Get it home (long story) and removed the battery and went for a load test. Looks good! 2nd load test looks good so I lightly "Thumped" the battery on the counter and 3rd load test shows 3.6volts. New battery and all is good again.

Well, you had a intermittent, mechanically-induced plate failure.  Probably one of the worst (and rare?) conditions for a battery.  Pretty wild.  Must have had some bad Karma or something going on ;)
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2018, 01:23:33 pm »
Well, you had a intermittent, mechanically-induced plate failure.  Probably one of the worst (and rare?) conditions for a battery.  Pretty wild.  Must have had some bad Karma or something going on ;)

actually not that rare.. we coined that issue YSDS back in the C10 days...
(Yuasa Sudden Death Syndrome) as the older batteries were very poorly manufactured with respect to the inter cell tie bars. Which (as in the case mentioned) would fracture, and offer odd voltages when a draw is placed on the battery... they are always in multples of approx 2 volts each, as each "cell" ( noted by the filler holes, of which there are 6) shows where the mini fracture actually is in the stack, 2 volts, would be a break between the first and second set of plates, 6v would be the center set, that 3.6v tested batt was broken between the second and third set of plates.. and so on... other than just being a very old and sulfated battery, or one that was allowed to dip low on charge, and freeze (which creates shorts between plates, and again shows low) it's the most common... usually it is appearant right off when a load test is done, but testing a cool battery vs a hot one (like during a ride) will exhibit differences as the tie bar metal 'fracture' may, due to expansion, be closed, or, even more open, and only visible after 'bouncing it' during the load test. Construction and materials has gotten exponentially better in the last decade, but there are still a lot of "low end" batteries in service, that simply never see bouncing and such, to make them finally die...

I also think shipped batteries, when you but them singly online, get subjected to some extreme torture rides in transit, unless they are packed robustly. I've had a couple show up looking like the UPS/USPS people played basket ball with the box... and they were bad from the start.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2018, 03:38:33 pm »
actually not that rare..

Well, I am just basing my statement on personal experience.  I have never had a battery fail from an internal short or open.  But I have had many fail (over my lifetime) from just being worn out, overcharged, or left with no charge.  I don't doubt at all that batteries do mechanically fail, however.  I just think it is not a typical failure most people experience (especially nowadays).

Speaking of which, I think the battery in my G37S needs replacing again.  It can be several days to more than a week between rides (I bicycle to work 95% of the time) and sometimes those rides aren't long enough to charge it.... so it sits in a low-charge state too much.  Don't have a battery tender on it.  Has been 5 years, but only about 12,000 miles :(
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: immobilizer and mult codes 21,23,24,26,51,52,53,54,59,64,65
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2018, 10:57:30 am »
I had a Yuasa fail on me many years ago on another bike.  Damnably aggravating it was.
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