Author Topic: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic  (Read 1654 times)

Offline MrPepsi

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 08:06:58 am »
Slight topic shift, but were they out of spec any of the first three times?  (To me, that sounds like checking 4 times in 74,000 miles is a lot).


I checked my records and it is in fact only three total. Once at 16k, and another at 53k. Always in spec, but most don't believe me on that.
Brent Johnson 
Why MrPepsi? I collect and consume Pepsi!
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 01:07:24 pm »
I do not think that statement is correct Rich- the overflow or reservoir bottle is there to account for expansion / contraction of the radiator fluid. It does that by accepting the excess from the radiator when it is hot, and the liquid expands, but when the radiator and engine cool and the coolant again contracts, the coolant is drawn from the overflow bottle via the small hose at the top of the radiator. So if the overflow tank is empty while the system is hot, it absolutely will suck air from the overflow bottle as everything cools down.

Brian

mmmmm.....
we can agree to disagree...
if you go back, and read the full body of what i said, that you pulled the quote from, you will see the first thing I wrote beginning that post.
IF the radiator is completely full (right up to the neck, as it should be), AND IF there are no leaks allowing a loss of coolant from anywhere in the system, then it cannot occur, as any burped out coolant will flow to the bottle, and be returned to the radiator when the system cools..so a completely full radiator can't suck in air, when it's full of coolant...  or am I wrong?
 :rotflmao: :chugbeer: :_shudder_Emoticon

anyway, I think Brent has it covered now, and they can also check to see if they plugged both the fans in when they inspect... :D

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline MrPepsi

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 01:31:49 pm »
Both fans were running when I arrived at home yesterday.

A full radiator, brought up to temperature will as you say expel fluid as the temp climbs. Then could suck in air if there was a leak in the overflow bottle that would allow the excess to leak out and only leave air, as the radiator temp cools.
Brent Johnson 
Why MrPepsi? I collect and consume Pepsi!
2009 C-14 "Razzi"

Offline okrider

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2018, 02:00:28 pm »
Have you checked the overflow when the bike's level and cold yet?
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Offline MrPepsi

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 02:37:58 pm »
Not yet, but I will when I get home.
Brent Johnson 
Why MrPepsi? I collect and consume Pepsi!
2009 C-14 "Razzi"

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2018, 02:43:57 pm »
Not sure we are on the same page. ??

Coolant expands when heated, and then contracts when again cooled. So a full radiator, with the coolant cold, absolutely will cause the coolant to expand when it is heated (the engine is running) and the pressure caused by this will force the radiator cap open (to the first stage on modern vehicles) and purge the [now] excess fluid. On all modern vehicles, there is an overflow bottle to catch this 'overflow' and hold it until the coolant in the engine and radiator again cool down (sometime after the bike is shut off). When the coolant cools and shrinks, it creates a vacuum and the radiator cap will again allow a 'leak' to the first stage, which is connected to the bottom of the overflow bottle, thereby drawing the original purged fluid back into the radiator.

I was merely  responding to your statement "it really can't suck air into the radiator from an empty reservoir bottle." which is incorrect. If the coolant shrinks, creates a vacuum but there is no fluid in the overflow bottle (for whatever reason) then the cooling system cannot help but suck air into the top of the radiator. That is all I was responding to, the statement quoted above that you made  in a previous post. If there were quantifiers in your post, I either did not see them or did / do not understand them. ??

Brian

mmmmm.....
we can agree to disagree...
if you go back, and read the full body of what i said, that you pulled the quote from, you will see the first thing I wrote beginning that post.
IF the radiator is completely full (right up to the neck, as it should be), AND IF there are no leaks allowing a loss of coolant from anywhere in the system, then it cannot occur, as any burped out coolant will flow to the bottle, and be returned to the radiator when the system cools..so a completely full radiator can't suck in air, when it's full of coolant...  or am I wrong?
 :rotflmao: :chugbeer: :_shudder_Emoticon

anyway, I think Brent has it covered now, and they can also check to see if they plugged both the fans in when they inspect... :D
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2018, 02:46:05 pm »
Yes, a leak and therefore an empty overflow bottle. The other potential problem, although you should not have this due to a valve lash check, would be that the hose that runs to the bottom of the overflow bottle fell off so the radiator ships fluid to the overflow bottle but sucks air from the top of the overflow bottle when the bike cools. The draw point needs to be at the bottom of the overflow tank.

Brian

Both fans were running when I arrived at home yesterday.

A full radiator, brought up to temperature will as you say expel fluid as the temp climbs. Then could suck in air if there was a leak in the overflow bottle that would allow the excess to leak out and only leave air, as the radiator temp cools.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2018, 02:48:28 pm »
And BTW, even that should not cause the bike to run noticeably hotter IMO. The radiator will still be full when hot, and very nearly full when cold, and the vehicle will perform just fine that way as did a gazillion vehicles with water cooling made long before overflow tanks came into being. I believe you have a different problem, though of course that is just a guess....

Brian

Both fans were running when I arrived at home yesterday.

A full radiator, brought up to temperature will as you say expel fluid as the temp climbs. Then could suck in air if there was a leak in the overflow bottle that would allow the excess to leak out and only leave air, as the radiator temp cools.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2018, 03:24:06 pm »
I checked my records and it is in fact only three total. Once at 16k, and another at 53k. Always in spec, but most don't believe me on that.

I am one who absolutely believes it is possible.  :)  I think we have had almost as many reports of "always in spec" as those needing adjustments.  Usually it seems to be a first inspection is out of spec and adjusted and subsequent ones are in spec.  But it also seems anything is possible (including some dealers lying about what work they are doing and/or saying something slightly out of spec is in spec).
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2018, 04:28:23 pm »
Not sure we are on the same page. ??

Coolant expands when heated, and then contracts when again cooled. So a full radiator, with the coolant cold, absolutely will cause the coolant to expand when it is heated (the engine is running) and the pressure caused by this will force the radiator cap open (to the first stage on modern vehicles) and purge the [now] excess fluid. On all modern vehicles, there is an overflow bottle to catch this 'overflow' and hold it until the coolant in the engine and radiator again cool down (sometime after the bike is shut off). When the coolant cools and shrinks, it creates a vacuum and the radiator cap will again allow a 'leak' to the first stage, which is connected to the bottom of the overflow bottle, thereby drawing the original purged fluid back into the radiator.

I was merely  responding to your statement "it really can't suck air into the radiator from an empty reservoir bottle." which is incorrect. If the coolant shrinks, creates a vacuum but there is no fluid in the overflow bottle (for whatever reason) then the cooling system cannot help but suck air into the top of the radiator. That is all I was responding to, the statement quoted above that you made  in a previous post. If there were quantifiers in your post, I either did not see them or did / do not understand them. ??

Brian

i don't know how to explain it simpler than I did...
FULL radiator... NO Leaks, EMPTY bottle....
coolant expands, flows to bottle..(radiator still full of liquid...expanded, but still full)
Bottle is now containing the coolant that was pushed there... the bottle has a return line at it's BOTTOM... coolant is retained,sitting over the return lines hole in the bottle, sealing it from external air, temporarily, in this bottle...(radiator is still full....), everything begins to cool, and the coolant in bottle gets sucked back to radiator neck (via a junction in the thermo housing), once again filling it completely full..with the now cooling rapidly, and contracting ( the opposite of expanding) juice.... if the radiator is FULL, it can't suck air in... just can't, as it is FULL.
Full make the radiator 'happy', and at that point, its done its job..

in truth, the catch bottle is a safety measure, only to prevent issues in the event of a "leakage, where fluid is dumped from the system, externally..." like a 'massive coolant dump into the bottle, from extreme overheat, where so much coolant is spewed that it dumps out the overflow of the bottle itself... 
If a failure occurs in a hose, or other flow path, where coolant is lost 'externally', even having juice in the bottle really won't help in every instance..., because the system would try to suck air from that failed part, instead of the bottle... depending on the location and severity of the failure..
we have seen this firsthand, with the 'chewing gum' seal on the C10 thermostat housing split line..   coolant bottle has juice in it, but radiator is a cup or more low... and nobody can figure where the coolant went to...or why it didn't suck fluid from the bottle... because it puked out of that ring seal, and evaporated, and during the 'cooling vacuum stage' just sucked in air from the housing... till it all contracted, and re sealed... invisibly...
It was a dilemma that was pondered for 20 years on that bike, until Guy and I found it, and it was pondered profusely by both of us for quite a while, to close that issue.

from da book...
"The system is pressurized by the radiator cap to suppress boiling and the resultant air bubbles which can cause engine overheating. As the engine warms up, the coolant in the radiator and the water jacket expands. The excess coolant flows through the radiator cap and hose to the reserve tank to be stored there temporarily. Conversely, as the engine cools down, the coolant in the radiator and the water jacket contracts, and the stored coolant flows back to the radiator from the reserve tank.
The radiator cap has two valves. One is a pressure valve which holds the pressure in the system when the engine is running. When the pressure exceeds 93 ∼ 123 kPa (0.95 ∼ 1.25 kgf/cm², 13 ∼ 18 psi), the pressure valve opens and releases the pressure to the reserve tank. As soon as pressure escapes, the valve closes, and keeps the pressure at 93 ∼ 123 kPa (0.95 ∼ 1.25 kgf/cm², 13 ∼ 18 psi).
When the engine cools down, another small valve (vacuum valve) in the cap opens. As the coolant cools, the coolant contracts to form a vacuum in the system. The vacuum valve opens and allows the coolant from the reserve tank to enter the radiator."

30 YEARS OF KAW.....

Offline MrPepsi

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2018, 04:44:41 pm »
Bike is cold and there is still coolant in the bottle.
Looks like the overflow was from the radiator cap, but I could be wrong.
Maybe a pinched overflow hose?
Brent Johnson 
Why MrPepsi? I collect and consume Pepsi!
2009 C-14 "Razzi"

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2018, 05:04:46 pm »
Bike is cold and there is still coolant in the bottle.
Looks like the overflow was from the radiator cap, but I could be wrong.
Maybe a pinched overflow hose?

 was the radiator full, cold, and cap removed to verify?
just asking,
I can't comment on the overflow tube 'pinch', not having it in front of me, but during the 'overheat' you talked about, the pressure generated during the release of the radiator cap venting process, would easily forced liquid thru the hose, and into the tank; or worst case, if really clamped down, blown the hose right off the nipple.

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2018, 07:39:51 pm »
 :popcorn:  the mystery continues...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, HID, helmet locks, Garmin Zumo 450, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,  Tourmaster Flex II

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2018, 08:13:44 am »
Well, this is circular and I am not going around a third time.

Anyway, I do not believe this is Brent's problem so now I will wait for either the outright answer or more information from Brent.

Brian

i don't know how to explain it simpler than I did...

<snip>

Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline tbanzer

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Re: Bike recently serviced, now getting hotter in traffic
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2018, 01:19:06 pm »
Is it still running hot. Usually with air in the cooling system it will eventually after a few cooling cycles bleed itself off. The danger being an air lock can cause overheating and a blown headgasket before the air is dissipated.